Conference unifix::sailing

Some brief comments:

Building a large boat is an incredibly time consuming task. Ask Ross 
Faneuf. He's been abuilding for, what, five years or more and is now 
beginning the deck. I've helped Ross just a little with his building,
but that little is enough to convince me that the biggest boat I want to
build is a 10' dinghy. 

A sad fact of life is that boats do depreciate. You will spend nearly as 
much building a boat as buying a new one. Much of what you save in labor
costs you will, I suspect, spend in buying tools, building a boatshed,
fixing mistakes, and paying more for materials than a major boatbuilder
will. Buying a used boat will almost certainly be less costly in the
long run. 

And the prime boatbuilding months are the sailing months. Ross makes 
little progress during the winter. 

    If you really want a boat fitted out for your particular needs,
    it is still preferable in most cases to buy a real trashed used
    boat of a size and design you like and rip out the interior and
    start fresh.  Deck layout can also be modified easily.  Then repaint
    to your taste.  The result will not likely look homebuilt and all
    your effort will go into the "fun" part of building.  Even putting
    in a whole new engine is a whole lot easier than building from
    scratch!  The market for used boats is such that you will be amazed
    how low the price for a "project" boat.  
    
    Davef

    The time is right to buy a scow and refit!!  I bought mine ( 32'
    O'Day Center Cockpit Ketch) in December of '87.  She needed lots
    of TLC.  It took 5 long months to refit, but, she looked great and
    recieved many compliments all summer. 
    
    I gutted the interior, re-wired her from stem to stern, new DC service
    panel, fresh water plumbing, water heater, shaft and cutlass bearing,
    new counter tops, cushions, carpets, drapes, instruments, wheel
    guard and brake, modified some rigging, painted lockers and re-finished
    exterior woodwork.
    
    I didn't build her, but, after what I went through, I feel the same
    pride you may be seeking, and mine went in the water almost on
    schedule.
    
    Good luck,
    
    Bob

[moved by moderator as it seems to belong to this discussion]

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DNEAST::DEE_ERIC                                     22 lines   7-APR-1989 09:00
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    Hi,
    	I've spent 7� years as a professional boatbuilder, so my
    perspective is one of practicallity.
    
    	First, where will you spend most of your time with the boat?
    If you're in Southern or warm water, stay away from wood, as the
    marine organisms will get to it - even if epoxy covered.  Some
    organisms even work away at fiberglass.  So for warm water, go with
    an aluminum or steel hull.  For Northern or cold water living, a
    good fiberglass, or cold molded epoxy hull is good, and the cold
    molded hull offers the insulation of the wood.
    
    	The previous replies are noteworthy.  Its a lot easier to get
     a used hull and refit it than to start at the backbone and build
    a new boat.  The exception to this is if you find the process of
    building an advocation unto itself.  If you don't have the basic
    boatbuilding skills, build a small, (15 to 22 foot) open boat as 
    an excercise to see what skills you need to hone before jump into
    a large live aboard motor or sail vessel. 
    
    Good luck,
    Eric

    I seem to remember reading somewhere, that you can buy a glass hull,
    and outfit the boat from there. Kind of like the "modify" the older
    boat idea, but you get a new boat.
    
    	Gregg

  I seem to recall that Starrett (in Florida) is one such provider of packages
  starting with: (I've always wondered about the possibility as it seems to be
  significantly less money to get into...)

	A Hull
	Hull and topdeck 
	Hull, top deck and engine
	Hull top deck, engine and rigging

  Anyway a progression of steps that are progressively more
  floatable -> power -> sailaway

	Jan

  p.s. I was a ad last month in Sailing magazine...

    I must agree very strongly that in something over 90 percent of
    the cases, a person should not build his own boat.  In today's
    environment, almost no one has the time to spend on a larger boat.
    There are endless documented cases where people have found that
    they were working for something like $2.00/hour for six or seven
    years!  I love wood-working (and tolerate 'glassing ), but could
    find any way to initiate my own construction project.
    
    Really think it over before venturing into that world!  Good luck.

RE: -.1

>>>  Starrett (in Florida) is one such provider of packages
  
These are pretty cheap deals, and built accordingly.  They just can't do 
what they hope you'll think they can do for what they charge.  And I know  
those molds are pretty tired these days, having been through the hands of 
at least a half-dozen owners.  Lord knows how many hulls have been popped 
from them.

For quality (and a more modest size, albeit at a less modest price), look 
at the fiberglass Lyle Hess-designed Bristol Channel cutter which Sam
Morse puts out. He'll build to any stage of completion from hull up
through full boat, at a quality level you can have some confidence in. 
Several of these boats are currently being sailed around the world.  The
most famous of the design (but not the construction) is the Pardey's, 
which was the original inspiration and currently chief marketing tool for 
the Morse version.

J.

    I'll second or third most of these comments. Building a boat isn't a
    hobby - it's an introduction to light industrial practices and a lot of
    work. I'm doing one for two reason:
    	I enjoy doing it
    	I think I'll get a good boat
    
    If your want to go sailing any time soon, then follow the previous
    advice. Rebuild a boat in tough shape, or buy a new, incomplete boat.
    There are also outfits which will sell you a steel hull (one used to be
    as close as Rhode Island).
    
    Of course, if you love large-scale woodworking, then go right to it. Be
    wary of the glowing claims in Bruce Roberts and Glenn L; certainly some
    people build successful boats using their designs, but the vast
    majority just give up. Also, those designs are often somewhat
    compromised in quality to cater to the inexperienced builder. Also
    check out designs from people advertising in places like WoodenBoat.
    
    Ross Faneuf
    
    P.S. If you want to see what it's like, you're welcome to drop in at my
    place in Hampstead NH.
    

RE: .9 by 

>>>  I'm doing one for two reason:
>>>    	I enjoy doing it
>>>    	I think I'll get a good boat
    
Ross, for the record:  How long have you been working on your boat so far, 
and how far along are you?  What's the current projected launch year?

As an observer of this boat and occasional party to design/construction
conversations, I can attest to its uncompromised quality and thoughtful 
design.  Few custom builders would do as good a job.  But then few home
builders bring together Ross's background in naval architecture and
engineering with his near-perfectionist temperament and patience.  

Perhaps the biggest qualifying question for the budding home-builder 
should be, How well do you know yourself?

J.

    I've been working on the boat for 10 years. My current goal is to take
    it for a sail on Labor Day weekend in 1990 (although I bet the interior
    won't be done). So it's a lengthy project, all right. I'd be maybe 4
    years ahead of where I am now if I'd been a single-minded fanatic, but
    I've taken most of my vacations sailing, and spent a fair amount of
    time doing other things with my family. Still, I've put about 4,000
    hours into it so far. But, as I said, I like doing this. I now feel a
    pretty strong urge to get it done, so I've established the above goal.
    We'll see.
    
    Ross Faneuf
    

    New neighbour to me in the marina is a magnificent wooden yacht
    that has a strong resemblence to a scaled down Bristol Pilot Cutter.
    Having exchanged the customary intro's over a beer or two asked
    him about his craft. He completed and launched in the summer of
    1987. The boat was promptly hauled out one month later due to the
    owner having had a mild heart attack.......Relaunched last week
    with additional labour saving devices such has main furling etc
    etc added. He took 15 years to build from scratch, it is superb.
    In his early life the owner/ builder served a full apprenticeship
    as a shipright in the North East of the UK on Tyneside. He then
    went on to spend the rest of his career owning a garage business...
    I asked him if he would do it again and he gave an unreserved yes.
    But he said anyone thinking of doing it should do it for the love
    of it and not for any other reason. If his health improves you may
    see him on your side of the puddle as he intends to have the yacht
    shipped to Baltimore so he can cruise the Eastern seaboard for a
    while.....
        
        
    I guess I will stick to plastic as I don't have the patience and
    neither does "She who must be obeyed"
        
    Pete                
                                                                     

One other problem with home building: There are parts of the boat that 
you will lack the skills and/or equipment to make. These will have to be 
custom made, often at quite considerable cost. One example: Items like
pulpits are not generally off-the-shelf items, and are expensive to have
made well. The stainless steel welder doing some minor work on our stern
pulpit (only $310) made a very nice but nothing fancy bow pulpit for an
acquaintance of ours. The bill was $2000 and change as I recall. It is
costs like these that tend to be overlooked and may not be an
insignificant part of the cost of building a boat.