Conference unifix::sailing

Briefly (others may elaborate):

- Do change the engine oil, both in the fall to take all those nasty acids 
  and such away from engine surfaces, and again in the spring to start out 
  with clean fresh oil (the old may have dissolved some nasties from your 
  engine over the winter, as well as chemically destabilized.)

- Remove batteries; store where they won't freeze.  Consider trickle-
  charging or checking once a month and recharging if necessary. 

- Be sure engine coolant is clean and topped up.  Usually one uses 
  antifreeze year-round for its anti-corrosive properties.  If you drain it 
  for the winter, rust will form inside -- bad news.

- Top up fuel tanks to prevent condensation of moisture.  Fuel additives may 
  be helpful, especially if you may wish to use the fuel next year.  (If 
  tankage is sizeable, and/or thoughtful disposal of old fuel is a 
  consideration, for instance.)  Most auto parts stores carry several brands 
  for both gas and diesel (they not the same, so pick out the right one!)

- Potable water antifreeze often seems to be ethyl alcohol -- 100 proof 
  vodka has been used successfully.  It must be water soluable, and safe
  to imbibe in diluted quantities after recommissioning.  Tanks need not be
  left full (though spring commisioning might be more fun if they are!) 

- Remove all sails, as much for inspection and cleaning as anything else. 
  You can extend their life considerably for your trouble. 

- Our seacocks were always left partially open.  Be sure you can trust
  yourself or your yard to close them next year, though.  Otherwise, an
  occasional replacement of a frozen seacock is cheap compared to launching
  a boat that won't stay afloat! 

- Head tanks and lines -- antifreeze again, but it needn't be potable.  
  Consider liberal application of valve lubricant, too.

- Cushions aboard always seem to stay moist, and covers will mildew.  
  Take 'em home.

- Depending on the size of your boat, you might save the cost of steam-
  cleaning the bottom by instead using a 50-50 mix of household bleach 
  and water.  Use plenty, with a brush and gloves.  If this is done 
  immediately after hauling, before the bottom begins to dry out, I've 
  never found any growth (other than barnacles) which doesn't slough right 
  off, and even barnacles seem easier to push off with the putty knife.


Other thoughts from those with experience?

J.

     I wasn't very clear in my base note. My engine is not fresh water cooled.
    Do i do anything to insure there is no raw water left in the system?
    
     So i should actually try to top my fuel tank off? Oh well, i guess
    all that carefull planning to get to the boat yard as close to empty
    as possible was a bit back asswards:-(
    
     Hmmmm, vodka in the water tank eh? With a 40 gal. tank we could
    be talking one strange launch day:-) come on May!!!!!
    
      Thanks.

    Actually that should be Propyl(ene) Glycol for anti-freeze, the
    infamous 'pink stuff'. Ethylene Glycol which you use in your engine
    is poisonous, so never use it in any of the water lines.
    
    I have seen folks use Ethyl Glycol in their bilges where the advantages
    are that it is more effective antifreeze in that it will take a higher
    dilution rate and still give adequate coverage. The only problem is
    that in the spring most folks pump it out onto the ground. 
    
    Great Bay Marine where I store no longer sells Ethyl Glycol, since
    they would like to discourage it's use except in engine colling
    systems.
    /jim

Recommended care for your battery, assuming it is a deep cycle battery, is to
fully charge it and then store in a cool place. A good battery shouldn't
freeze and shouldn't need recharging during the winter. 

These instructions came with my deep cycle battery. The instructions said that
care for deep cycle batteries is different than for standard batteries and
specifically recommended against trickle charging. 

- Bob

    Raw water cooled engines need to be flushed and then filled with
    antifreeze.  The quickest way is to remove the intake hose right
    at the seacock.  Then insert this in a big bucket of water (5 gallons
    should do it).  Run the engine until you feel you have thoroughly
    flushed it with fresh water (keep the bucket full with water while
    you do this as the engine will be emptying it).
    
    Finally put antifreeze in the bucket (amount is dependent on the
    engine).  Run the engine until the antifreeze has filled the engine
    and is pumping out the exhaust.   Thats it.  The engine should be
    left filled with antifreeze to inhibit rust formation.
    
    Some people connect a Y valve at the intake seacock and permanently
    afix a second intake hose  such that the process is easy to repeat
    in or out of the water.

    * right (.1) change oil
    * remove and store batteries...don't store directly on a concrete
    	floor ( few 2x4 pieces will do)...I've never heard a good reason
    	for this, but the one year that I placed them directly on the
    	concrete, I killed two Surettes.  Any reasoning?
    * I have an raw water cooled Atomic 4...here's the routine: (if
    	you have three or four arms, it helps).  fill a pail with a
    	50-50 mix of Eg antifreeze.  Remove the water intake hose from
    	the water intake strainer and put it in the pail so that the
    	water pump will draw the mixture into the engine.  Fire up the
    	old beast and have somebody screech when the antifreeze starts
    	coming out the exhaust pipe.  Shut it down.  This assures that
    	you'll not only keep the engine from freezing but the muffler
    	and other exhaust parts.  The atomic four uses a bi-pass thermo-
    	stat that never completely stops water flow to any part of the
    	engine.  As all of this is happening, if you feel up to it,
    	you can pour about 4 ounces of good old mystery oil into the
    	intake to kill the engine when the screeching happens.  The
    	stuff smokes a bit and causes a lot of rattling but keeps the
    	valves and rings going for years.
    
    * You cab buy potable antifreeze by the gallon at most boat yards.
    	I tend to be cheap, so I pump out as much as I can, and use
    	as little as possible.  
    
    * I don't go along with leaving the mast stepped.  I saw one once
    	that had split at the base after water had collected at the
    	deck step fitting.  Plus in the spring you can better inspect
    	and service it.
    
    * Seacocks...I leave mine closed, but really blast them out with
    	WD-40 and make sure that they are free acting.
    
    * Remove boom and any running rigging including the roller furl
    system unless it's an integral part of the standing rigging...
    another reason for hauling the mast down.
    
    

re fuel tanks:

As mentioned, due to water condensation, it is better to leave fuel 
tanks nearly full during the winter. Nearly full is better than full -- 
the fuel expands and contracts with temperature changes, and, if the 
tank was filled during cool weather, the fuel may expand enough to 
overflow through the vent tube. Depending on the location of the tube, 
you may find hard to remove fuel stains on your topsides come spring.

I always dump a pint of water absorbing additive into my tank just 
before hauling the boat. A pint of additive will absorb about a quart of 
water. Be careful with additives if you have fuel filters with plastic 
bowls (eg, Racors). Any alcohol in the additive will dissolve the 
plastic bowl. MDR additives do not contain alcohol. 

Additives to stabilize the fuel (both diesel and gasoline) are
available. The claim is that you can use fuel that has been stored over
a winter. Well, having had an interesting learning experience with
diesel fuel injectors and injection pump, I'm skeptical of this. Diesel
fuel and home heating oil are essentially the same stuff. Just before
launching I drain the diesel fuel from the boat and dump it into my home
oil tank. I then refill the boat's tank with fresh diesel fuel with both
a pint of water absorbing additive and some biocide additive to prevent
algae growth. This, I blithely assume, ensures only clean fuel for the
engine. Should you have a gasoline engine in your boat, I have a 15 year
old Ford van that quite happily drinks any old gasoline left lying
around. 

    
    I'm skeptical about the gas stabilizers.  Last year I offered a
    gas station attendent several gallons of gas, free (if you mix
    oil with gas, please don't do this!).  Aside from making someone
    believe in Santa Claus again, it saved me the few dollars it
    would have cost to get rid of it in the springtime as hazardous
    waste.  I think that as long as the gas containers are either
    nearly full or totally empty that the chance of rust developing
    is minimal... in the latter case because it can be stored inside,
    in a drier place.
    
       - jim
    

    i was thinking of buying gloves for the winter...the wheel can get
    very cold on the sf bay...
    
    jfk
    
    

    To suggestions .5 and .6 I'd add the following: 

    Before filling the cooling system with antifreeze via the bucket
    you should clean the raw water filter (seaweed, sticks, sand,
    shells,etc.) and check/replace any zinc's. I then run the engine
    using fresh water to flush the system and at the same time heating
    the engine oil for changing. Once the oil and filter has been changed,
    then add the antifreeze to the bucket and proceed.

    J_R

    Some additional thoughts on winterization -
    
    Diesel engines - once you have finished assuring that the raw-water
    side of the engine is protected by a 50/50 antifreeze mixture, try
    to make sure the engine is turned over to the point that ALL intake
    and exhaust valves are closed.  It's one way to reduce the risk
    of damage to the valves and seats from condensation.

    Any engine - cover the exhaust outlet(s) and intakes with heavy
    plastic duct-taped in place. The idea is to reduce moisture intake
    to the engine.
        
    Diesel fuel additives?  According to Mack Boring Company (diesel
    experts) a fuel additive is not needed and may be harmful.  It seems
    that the bad stuff that happens to diesel fuel happens in the summer
    (algae growth) and that winter storage does not affect the fuel.
    A condensation preventer is fine though.  Additionally, if you add
    a Stor'N'Start type of conditioner, it tends to collect at the bottom
    of the tank, not doing any good until you come close to running
    out of fuel, at which point your engine is trying to use the
    conditioner as fuel - not great stuff.
    
    Marine heads - clean 'em now - then squirt some Sea Lube into either
    the priming hole or directly into the bowl and pump it partially
    through the system.  Leave for 24 - n hours, then pump a 50/50 engine
    antifreeze mixture through the head to keep THAT from freezing.
    
    Potable water system - the pink stuff is cheaper than vodka, though
    admitedly less fun in the spring.  Be sure to pump the anti-freeze
    spiked water through EVERY lift pump on the boat so that you see (an  
    advantage to the pink color) the mixture coming out of each tap.
    I only put enough antifreeze in the system to be sure that I can
    pump it through to all the taps and leave the lines filled.

    Cushions - take them all home. Anything that can absorb moisture
    will do so with great abandon during the winter.  My boat smelled
    clean and fresh last spring when there was no cloth left during
    the previous winter to allow mildew growth.
    
    Floorboards - remove them!  Especially if you have a keel-stepped
    mast and are subject to a "little" leakage.  The water that comes
    down the mast settles in the bilge.  If you don't put anti-freeze
    (potable is what I used) in the bilge, the water freezes and can
    make a real mess of things.  I go one step further by placing a
    Rubbermaid-style plastic bucket in the bilge with either a
    brick or a spare gallon of pink anti-freeze to hold it there.  The
    idea is that if you start to get ice formation in the bilge, as
    the ice expands, it crushes the bucket instead of the bilge area.

    Deck gear - things like blocks that can be removed should be.  You
    get a lot of UV damage over the winter to plastic parts that are
    exposed to sunlight unnecessarily. I had two genoa blocks explode
    this year and found out they were UV damaged. Cover your winches
    to keep water (later nasty expanding ice) out of them.
                                          
    Wallet - keep it clamped shut. The temptation to buy wonderful new
    gear during the winter will overtake you anyway - you might was
    well slow down to consider that all the new gear will have to be
    hauled to the boat, installed, and paid for!
                                          
    Carl
                                          

    I would also remove the spark plugs, pour 1-2 tablespoons of
    oil into each cylinder, cover the holes with a rag and spin
    the engine over briefly with the starter.  This coats the
    cylinder walls with oil to help prevent rust.  I just use oil
    for this, but there is a specific product STORAGE-SEAL if you
    prefer. When replacing the plugs, a little Permatex Antiseize
    on the threads will make this easier the next time.  Also,
    cover the carburetor with a plastic bag and plug the outside
    of the exhaust to help prevent air-exchange and condensation.

    An article I read last year suggested throwing hand-fulls of
    rock salt into low points of the bilge.  The idea was that if
    any water got in, it would hopefully mix with the salt and
    be prevented from freezing.

    	- Lee

    
    It's a good idea to cover the butt end of an unstepped mast with
    a securely fastened garbage bag if it is stored on top of the boat.
    Masts make excellent bird houses.  Waiting for a family of birds
    to move out in the spring has been known to seriously delay launch
    schedules.
    
    - gene

    re 11:
    
    Diesel conditioner: You do not need diesel conditioner,you need
    antifreeze for dieselfuel.Summerdiesel is good down to +4 C.
    Below this temperature you have parafin in your tank and prefilter 
    (its black,greasy stuff).Winterdiesel is protected  down to
    -10 C in Europe.
    I have a diesel powered car and I have to add antifreeze in a cold
    winter.You can not reverse the parafin and if you miss it,you walk.
    As a substitute according to my owners manual you can use petrol
    (max. 25%).But I would not recommand it on a boat.
     
    
    Peter

    
    Re .-1 As far as putting oil in the cylinders the service manuals
    	   outboards recommend doing that. They recommend using something
    	   called Fogging Oil which comes in a can and sprays an oil
    	   mist. They also suggest spraying it into the carburetor with
    	   the motor running for a few seconds.

    RICH,
    
        AFTER 9 YEARS OF WINTERIZING MY ENGINE, I FINALLY WENT TO
    A SEMMINAR ON MARINE DIESEL ENGINES THIS YEAR.  REFERENCE NOTE
    11, ACCORDING TO THE INSTRUCTOR "UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD
    YOU EVER ADD ANYTHING TO THE DIESEL FUEL.  HE ALSO RECOMMENDS
    NOT TO PURCHASE THE FUEL AT A MARINA IF IT CAN BE PREVENTED.
    TRY TO ALWAYS PURCHASE IT AT A BUSY TRUCK STOP.  CHANGE ALL
    FILTERS OR ELEMENTS AT LEAST 2 TIMES A YEAR.  THIS WAS
    ACCORDINY TO YANMAR.  
    
    P.S.  DON'T FORGET TO PLUG UP YOUR EXHAUST AFTER YOU RUN YOUR
    ANTI-FREEZE THOUGH IT.  BTW FOR EIGHT YEARS I TOPPED OFF THE
    TANK, AND ADDED "DIESEL PREP" TO THE TANK.  I'LL LET YOU
    KNOW IF THE ENGINE RUNS IN THE SPRING, IT ONLY HAS 8 HOURS
    ON IT, I HOPE IT STARTS.
    
                                BOB
    

re .16:

Ah, the old conflicting recommendations from different manufacturers .....

Westerbeke does recommend adding biocides to diesel fuel to prevent 
algae growth. Given the differences between air and water temperatures 
in the marine environment, water condensation in fuel tanks is 
inevitable (the fuel tank will be much cooler than the outside air since 
the tank normally rests against the hull). Algae will grow in diesel 
fuel when water is present. Since algae can grow quite quickly and since 
many of us only fill our fuel tanks once or twice a summer, a biocide 
seems like an excellent idea. It doesn't take much algae residue to clog 
a fuel injector.

Buying fuel at a busy truck stop usually isn't too convenient -- such
truck stops aren't located within walking distance of a dock. Have you
ever tried carrying even five gallons of diesel very far? A good fuel
filter/water separator (eg, Racor) minimizes the risk of using marina
fuel. 

Why change filters twice a year? A good filter should happily filter 
hundreds or even thousands of gallons of fuel. I doubt I've ever used 
more than 50 gallons of fuel in one summer. Once a year (in the spring) 
seems adequate. (If our engine had a self-bleeding fuel system I might 
be inclined to more frequent changes!)

RE:  .14 

>>> You can not reverse the parafin and if you miss it,you walk.

Do you mean that once it gels, it's no good anymore?  I had my diesel car 
fuel gel several times, and always motored away without problem after the 
temps got above 0 degrees F.

And Alan's earlier observation is correct:  Since diesel gels rather than 
freezes solid, if you leave a little space in the tank, it will expand and 
ooze without overpressuring the seams.  (Looks like pink or yellow jello 
when frozen!)

J.

re changing engine oil:

Most of the methods of draining the oil from a boat engine leave a
substantial amount of oil in the engine -- perhaps as much as 1/2 to 1
quart. Thus the new oil is immediately contaminated with all the sludge,
acid, dirt, combustion byproducts, water, etc, in the residual old oil. 

In the fall I run our diesel engine until it is fairly warm, drain the
oil, replace the oil filter, add new oil, and run again until the engine
is warm again (at least 15 minutes). After 15 minutes of running, this
'new' oil is almost as dark as the oil just drained. I then drain the
oil, replace the filter, etc. After running the engine another 15
minutes, the oil is still fairly light colored, indicating that most of
the old, contaminated oil has been removed. 

This procedure of course doubles the cost (and time) of changing the
oil, but, still, four quarts of oil and a filter should be under $10. 

[For the analytically minded, if 0.5 quart of oil remains in the engine
after draining the oil and 4 quarts of new oil are added, 13% of the oil
in the engine is now old, contaminated oil. After the second oil change, 
only 2% of the oil is the old, contaminated oil.]

    re:19
    
    Alan, 
    
    Where do you buy your filters ? I have a Universal Atomic and I
    believe the filters run about $8 apiece (I will check though).
    
    Granted, I "shop" at Gouge Brothers and Hanscom Marine......
    
    JC
    

re .20: 

Ah, well, there are popular (cheap) filters and not so popular (not so 
cheap) filters. The original filter on our diesel was a little thing 
used on out-of-production English Sprites and MGs or some such. 
Expensive even at discount auto parts stores. Last winter I installed a 
remote oil filter because on-engine filter was so damned hard to get at. 
The remote filter uses standard made by the millions US Ford filters -- 
under $5. 

Many auto parts stores have the thick Fram filter catalog available for 
your reading. I discovered after much reading that the gasket diameter
and thread on the pipe the filter screws onto are the same for quite a
number of filters -- what varies is the outer diameter and length of the
filter. You may be able to find a replacement filter that is cheaper
than the one specified by Atomic. In our case, the original filter and
the Ford filter we're now using have the same gasket diameter and pipe
thread, so I could use a standard kit (obtained from a hot rod parts
store) for the remote filter. Some auto parts stores will give an 
additional discount if you buy several filters at the same time. 

By the way, Consumer Reports found that not all oil filters are equally 
good -- Fram filters seemed to be about the best though not the cheapest. 
For the fall oil changes I use the cheapest filters I can find -- they 
only get used less than a half hour after all. Also by the way, many 
store brands -- eg, K-Mart, Zayre, etc -- are probably made by the same 
company and differ only in the name printed on the outside. 

    Like most boat engines, my Yanmar does not allow enough room to
    drain the oil from the bottom plug because there is simply not enough
    room for a pan large enough to hold all the oil.  So I use the vaccum
    can to pull it up the dipstick.  Then with only the .5 or so quart
    left that Alan spoke of, I use a small plastic container to drain
    the rest from the bottom.  With the engine warm and the position
    of the drain, I am able to remove almost all of the oil.  
    
    Hank

    Hank:  What is "the vacuum can"?? 
    Until Saturday, I had always had to drag oil up the dip-stick. 
    I just found out that by removing the oil pressureunit, I can use
    the engine to do the majority of the work.(Don't run the engine
    dry, though).  Then I can vacuum pump the remaining "mud"
    Anyone else using this approach??
    

re .23:

If I understand you correctly, you run your engine with the oil pressure 
sending unit removed, allowing the oil to drain from the engine under 
pressure. 

If this is what you are doing, I think it is a really dumb idea. The
pistons and piston connecting rod bearings are lubricated by oil
splashed up from the oil pan. The crankshaft and camshaft bearings
depend on oil pressure to operate. I think that you are needlessly and
foolishly risking serious and expensive damage to your engine.
Rebuilding an engine, especially a diesel, could easily exceed $2500. 

This is just my usual, strong opinion ..... its your engine.

    RE:23
    
    The Vaccum can is available from Boat US and others.  It looks like
    a 2.5 gal fuel can and is equiped with a pump for pulling a vaccum
    on the can.  A flexible tube is placed in the dipstick opening and
    a clamp on the tube released and the oil is removed.  The first
    one I had was into the third season when the can succumbed to the
    vaccum and rendered itself useless due to implosion.  The company
    replaced the can at no charge.
    
    The trick is to have the oil warm enough to flow freely and yet
    not so hot as to melt the plastic tube.
    
    Hank

    
    Re:24  Thanks, Alan!  I knew I could count on a note from you
    on this one. First, it is an Atomic 4 (gasoline, not diesel). Second,
    I am very familiar with how engines are lubricated, I have worked
    on them for over twenty years.  This was only done after discussions
    with two marine engine mechanics whose opinions I respect very much.
    The engine was only run at idle, and I did say, "don't pump it dry".
    This is not to be done constantly, or if you don't know what you
    are doing.  However, the oil hasn't been so clean in a long time.
    
    Re:25  Thanks Hank.  I will give it a try.  I have been using a
    small electric pump, but it is agonizingly slow, even with the oil
    warmed up ahead of time. 
    

re .26:

Ok, but how you know when just sufficient oil remains to prevent damage? 
That is, how do you avoid pumping the engine dry? I don't know how much
oil is in the filter, in the bearings, and just draining down to the oil
pan. Moreover, the oil pump pickup is an unknown distance above the
bottom of the oil pan, and the bottom of the dipstick is an unknown
distance above or below the bottom of the oil pump pickup. Therefore
estimating the amount of oil remaining in the engine by measuring the
amount of oil pumped out seems very risky. 

Cynically, professional mechanics are not paid to do a good job -- they 
are paid to do the job quickly. Will either of the professional 
mechanics you talked to absolutely guarantee that your engine won't be 
damaged by this procedure? I very much doubt it. 

It still seems to me that the risk considerably outweighs the reward and 
I would not knowingly buy an engine whose oil had been drained this way. 

    If your engine takes four quarts, pump three then re-fill. Run engine again,
    to flush the old oil, pump three, then hand pump out the remaining
    goo. 
    

    As mentioned in a previous note, I am not a mechanic or want to
    be.  However, my brother-in-law owns a diesel tractor trailer 
    repair service.  He recommends the following either in your car,
    or your diesel engine:  To drain out all the old oil, put the plug
    back, fill with diesel fuel, run for 8-10 seconds no longer, and
    redrain he says it will not damage the engine unless you run it
    too long, but he says the only think that works better, is to take
    the engine apart and clean it.  He's been doing this for 25 years,
    and he says it works very effectively.  He is also an instructor
    at a school, and  he told me he teaches this to all his students.
    My question is anyone that reads this file ever try this? Should
    I trust a brother-in-law that this will really work on a marine
    engine.  I have used this technique on my auto and it really keeps
    the oil clean.
    
                                     Bob
    p.s.  However, I don't always get that warm confortable feeling
    about it.
    
        

re .29:

As I mentioned in .19, the usual methods of removing the oil from a 
marine engine leave a substantial amount of oil (1/2 to 1 quart is my 
guess) in the engine. Using diesel fuel in place of lubricating oil to 
flush the engine may in fact get the engine internals clean. However, 
when you attempt to remove the diesel fuel, quite a bit will remain in 
the engine. This remaining diesel fuel will contaminate the new 
lubricating oil. This is probably not good. One way of assessing the 
state of your engine is to have the lubricating oil analyzed for 
contamination. The usual analysis will detect diesel fuel contamination 
of 0.5% or more (ie, 0.02 quart of diesel fuel in 4 quarts of lubricating 
oil --  half quart of diesel fuel in 4 quarts of lubricating oil is a 
contamination of 12.5%). This implies to me that significant diesel fuel 
contamination in lubricating oil is likely to be harmful to the engine. 
I personally wouldn't try using diesel fuel to flush a marine engine. 
10 seconds of running on diesel fuel isn't long enough, it seems to me, 
to throughly flush the crud from the engine. Better, I think, to run the 
engine 15 minutes or so using fresh oil, drain, and refill. But since 
I'm not a professional mechanic, what do I know?

    As long as we're on the subject of winter lay up, I just replaced
    the zincs in my heat exchanger.  The brass plug holding the zinc
    was so corroded that I had to use a pipe wrench to get it out. 
    I'm tempted to wrap the threads of the new plug with teflon tape
    so it will be easier to remove the next time.  However, I believe
    this would electrically isolate the zinc in the heat exchanger.
    
    Does the zinc have to be in electrical contact to provide its
    sacrificial value, or will it be equally effective insulated
    with teflon tape?

re last:

>>>    Does the zinc have to be in electrical contact to provide its
>>>    sacrificial value ....

Yes.

>>>    or will it be equally effective insulated with teflon tape?

You place too much faith in the strength of teflon tape. The very soft 
tape is squeezed into the gaps between the threads. There will still be 
electrical contact between the male and female threads.

FWIW,

Rich Phelan of Marine Power System (YANMAR dealer/service in Marblehead) had
suggested using De-electric (conducting) grease instead of tape.

bc

You can probably get the same effect as flushing with diesel oil by using a
very lightweight breakin oil, such as is often used for the first few miles
in a rebuilt engine (and used to be common in new cars). This is a low detergent
oil with a low viscosity (around SAE 5, I think), that flushes through quickly
and drains readily. And it's a genuine lubricating oil (which any fuel quite
emphatically is not).

Ross Faneuf