Conference unifix::sailing

    The sail itself is quite easy. you head straight across. Just about
    the time you lose sight of hills behind plymouth, you can make out
    P-town. In a good blow, you could do it in about 2 1/2 hours (i.e.
    15 knots). The main trick is to do it on a nice day. the bay can
    get really tough during a storm on a Hobie until you enjoy slamming
    waves to weather for several hours because of chop. 
    
    Duxbury beach is a nice place, but I think they might give you a
    hassle leaving your car there. You could call the Gruny Inn or something
    like that. It is on the access road between marshfield and Duxbury
    beach. you could then put your boat in at either the beach (in the off
    season), or go to the opening in the seawall in marshfield appx
    1/2 mile away. If you can talk the Inn into letting you leave you
    car and trailer, you'll got half your problems taken care of. 
                          
       Can't tell you about the P-town end. Never stopped there.
    
       I would suggest a Sep/ early Oct crossing. the water is still
    warm and the wind is pretty predictable.
    
        Have fun.
    
    john
                     

    I'm not sure I'd WANT to do a trip like this in a Hobie cat.  It's not
    the duration of the trip, or the fact that the water can (and does) get
    rough sometimes.  A Hobie can handle that.  But if the fog rolls in, or
    a sudden thunderstorm comes along, you're in DEEP cookies.  
    
    I'd at least recommend taking along a compass.  It's about 20 miles
    across, and that's open water.  If the weather turns bad or the fog
    rolls in you'd better be able to find your way to the Cape, or it's off
    into the wild blue yonder ...
    
    ... Bob

     Bad weather is one possibility, the other is no wind. I once made
    that same trip in a 14' O'Day. The wind died and it ended up taking
    me 12 hours to reach P-Town.
    
     I also owned a 16' Hobie at the time but i was glad i was in the
    O'Day.

re .2:

Sounds risky to me, too. Visibility can become very poor and the wind 
and sea can increase very rapidly in Cape Cod Bay. We were once caught
in a 50+ (est) knot squall off Provincetown with little warning. The
weather before and after the squall was delightfully pleasant sailing
weather. 

On an unrelated topic: We were sailing near the Marblehead bell last
Sunday when one of those Cigarette-type power boats (you know, the ones
you can hear for miles) came alongside. The young fellow driving asked
"Where are we?" "Off Marblehead." "Great, that's where we're going."
Very loud engine noises. The bikini-clad lassies on the transom were
lovely. 

    Alan,
    
    Maybe that was George Bush!  I read in "New England Offshore" that
    he owns a Cigarette boat and likes to zip around the coves of Maine
    terrorizing lobster pots.  The bikini-clad lasses might have been
    secret service - but where would they put their Uzi's?
    
    Encore
    

    Re .3
    
    I was telling a friend of mine who's a Hobie sailor about this entry
    last night.  And his initial response is "No way!  If the wind dies
    while you're out there you'd better have a motor.  And running lights."
    
    His point, which I hadn't considered but which is very valid, is that
    not only can the trip take a LONG time if the wind dies once you're
    well out, but also there's some very large commercial vessels coming
    through there on their way to/from the canal.  And something like a tug
    pulling a barge can be VERY bad news for someone on a small sailboat
    like a Hobie, ESPECIALLY if there's no wind and you can't get out of
    the way.
    
    My point is, I don't want to discourage anyone from trying something
    adventuresome, but think ahead of the possibilities and prepare for the
    worst.  A trip like this can be anywhere from boring to life
    threatening, depending on what Mother Nature decides to throw your way. 
    And around here weather conditions can go from one extreme to the other
    in a matter of hours.
    
    ... Bob

    Re: .5
    
    I have run into the Bush entourage many a time when I've been in
    Kenneybunkport. Usually you could tell it was the VP when you noticed
    two boats coming at you (the second contained the Secret Service folk)
    and most of the time a Coast Guard chopper overhead. It ends up being a
    real parade. Every time I've been passed by them, George has always
    waved and shouted Hi (even though he wouldn't know me from Adam.)
    
    Re: .0
    
    I would be very leary about taking the trip for the following reasons;
    
    a. A Hoby 16 has no cabin or dodger to shelter you in the event
       of a squall or thunderstorm, and squalls can come up very fast
       in Cape Cod bay, especially in the south end where T-storms follow
       up the Cape.
    b. Generally Hoby 16's do not have radios to call for help should
       the need arise. (Hopefully you have flares and/or meteors to
       attract help).
    c. Generally Hoby 16's don't have sufficient Navigation equipment
       (Loran, Knot meter, Compass, and charting equipment) to allow
       you to navigate in the fog. We've been to P-town four times,
       and three times it has been socked in tight (visibility less
       than 100 yds) and if we didn't have Loran we would of either
       not arrived or would have delayed leaving by 5 hours to a day
       waiting for the fog to burn off.
    d. As mentioned before the wind is generally not that dependable,
       and a Hoby 16 doesn't carry an 'iron jib' to move the boat when
       the wind fails. (it's a long way to scull and the tidal current
       will give you about 0.5 kt to fight).
    
    In general I wouldn't do the trip, since unless the conditions are
    perfect you don't have the equipment to handle it. I am not impugning
    your sailing ability, but pointing out your equipment limitations.
    (Just as I would not try to take my 25' to Bermuda - it could be
    done but we couldn't handle all the possibilities).
    
    /jim

    
    
    
    	Have you tried Cuttyhunk? I sailed over there the other
    	weekend and was passed by five cats. A good plan
    	would be to start from Horseneck Beach. Its about
    	seven miles across. The wind is 15-20 knots from the SW
    	in the afternoon.
    
    	The first thing I thought of when I saw them was they
    	didn't have a power boat as a support ship incase of problems.
    	If you do try Cuttyhunk bring a compass, the haze or fog can
    	become thick. 
    
    	I don't know if you can camp out on the beaches, but they do
        have cabin's you can rent on the island. On sunny weekends there
    	there are lots of boats there if you do run into problems. Both
    	power and sail. 
    
    	Another area of concern are the tugs and barges watch out for
    	them.
    
    	At Horseneck Beach is a State Park and Camp ground. Its located
    	south of Fall River about an half hour drive from Plymouth.
    
    	In any case have fun and leave a Float Plan with someone.

    Clearly most of the readers of this file are into Yachting, not
    small boat sailing. While I agree there are hazards in making a
    trip like this many people do it and have  GREAT time at it. Just
    a couple examples Ive met:
    
    2 fellows sailed Sunfish from New Orleans to Friendship Maine, camping
    along the beach. Took about 97 days.
    
    A couple from England is currently working their way up the East
    Coast from Florida in a 15' Wayfarer Dinghy. Previously they have
    sailed aroung England and Europe on similar trips.
    
    Dave getchel and a friend sailed up the Labarador coast for about
    30 days in a 16' dinghy, both sleeping on the beach and in the boat.
    
    Another fellow routinely cruises the coast of Maine in a 19' Lightning.
    
    The most outstanding one Ive met is Charlie Porter who spent 2 1/2
    YEARS living out of a Kleper Foldboat while rounding Cape Horn and
    researching some Indian tribe.
    
    Then of course, Robert Mandry sailed a 12' Old Town from US to England
    a few years ago.
    
    Sorry I dont have names of all these people- Ive met all of them
    (they have been speakers at out monthly Traditional Small Craft
    meeting in Salem MA) All of them did it without engines, loran,
    radar, etc.
    
    I dont suggest foolish adventures, but just because the boat is
    small it is not foolish.

    Re.9  And a French nobleman of some sort cruised around the Pacific
    on a windsurfer.  Still, I agree with the majority that the place
    for an open vessel with no self-recovery possible in event of capsize
    is inshore, within sight of land.  The ORC requires a whole list
    of safety equipment when racing across open, unprotected water (some
    of which is a little overkill perhaps) assuming that the crews are
    competent, experienced, and skilled in emergency procedures.  These
    requirements got there for a reason.  While I would say on any one
    try a Hobie has an 80%+ chance of arriving somewhere near P-town,
    it's the other 20% or so which makes the undertaking irresponsible.
    
    If you do it, good luck and fair weather.
    
    Dave

    
    If I remember right, Evil Kneivel jumped a rather large abyss in
    the Grand Canyon and lived to tell the tale, but I wouldn't
    recommend it to anyone else.  Well, maybe just one or two people.
    
       ;)
    

    RE .9
    
    > Clearly most of the readers of this file are into Yachting, not
    > small boat sailing.
    
    For the record, I spent six years doing a LOT of sailing on a Hobie 16
    before I ever stepped onto a bigger boat.  I have a lot of faith in the 
    sturdiness of a Hobie 16 under stressful weather conditions.  But Hobies 
    weren't meant for open water, and that's what we're talking about here.  
    
    Most of your examples are about people taking long trips while staying 
    fairly close to shore.  And that's fine.  Hobie camping can be a real 
    treat.  But try getting, say, within 5-6 miles of P-town and suddenly 
    getting socked with fog.  Not fun ! You'd better be able to do something 
    a little more effective than just saying "Oh sh*t".  
    
    Also would be interesting to know the sailing background of the people
    you mentioned in your examples.  I mean, people single-hand across the
    Atlantic too, but I wouldn't recommend it to most of the sailors I
    know.
    
    ... Bob

RE: .10

>>>  And a French nobleman of some sort cruised around the Pacific
>>>  on a windsurfer.  

That was Baron (Arnoud?) de Rosnay, and in addition to cruising in the
South Pacific, he disappeared there several years ago.  His 'thing' was to
do well-known open water passages around the world by windsurfer, such as
the English Channel, Strait of Gibralter, Cyprus-to-Greece, etc.  One of
those passages finally done him. 

BTW, his widow (Jenna?) is an internationally successful professional
windsurfer. 

J.

The Baron disappeared windsurfing from mainland China across the Straits 
of Formosa to Taiwan. 

    Although I would reiterate my concerns about taking on an extended
    passage through open water in a Hoby 16, what you could do is take the
    long way around. By that have you considered launching at the base of
    the Cape around Bourne and following the Cape out and up to
    Provincetown ? 
    
    This would length the trip from about 20 nm to about 35 nm. The
    advanatages would be that you would never be far from shore (about 1-2
    nm) and could easily duck into shore if a blow came up or row/scull in
    if the wind died. If the weather started closing in you could probably
    make land before it socked in tight and you would be sure of the
    direction and distance.
    
    Since most of the South Shore and Cape is sand you wouldn't have to
    worry about finding a rocky shore to hole one of your hulls, and with
    your small draft you wouldn't have to woory about the sand bars off of
    Welfleet. 
    
    It would be much more scenic and safer.
    
    /jim

    RE.15
    
      Jim has a good idea. Even though the length of the trip is extended.
    you would be doing broad reaches both to and back from duxbury.
    The additional speed (and accompanying fun) would help negate
    the extra miles. this is based up the the normal sw winds.
    
    taking such a trip doesn't bother me as I know my capabilities and
    enjoy really tough weather. The point about being becalmed in a
    fog bank really strikes home, as it once took me 8 hours to
    paddle back to Cape Ann at night when the wind stopped blowing
    for no apparent reason. 
    
    Being in a shipping lane would spook the
    devil out of me. It reminds me of a true story of a Hobie Catter
    who took his family (wife, two small children) for a picnic on
    an island near Mashpee. The day went wonderfully, but before they
    were through, a fog bank rolled in. Well, the chap had his map and
    compass and felt pretty good, but the wife was a bit nervious. So
    they started back slowly in thick fog. The skipper couldn't see
    where he was located, so he stuck to that compass heading. after
    a couple of hours, evening was coming quickly when a shadow came
    looming out of the mist with a faint glow 80 feet above them. They 
    were just about to jump off and swim for their lives when they 
    realizied it was not a ship but a lighthouse. It's at times like this 
    you wish you had all those fancy instruments on board like the big boats.
                            
    As for Hobie Cats not taking to open waters, Two gents from France
    did the France to the Carabiean islands last year. I have friends who have
    done the Worell 1000 from Fla to Va where they can get up to 40
    miles out. The boat is built to take a beating provided you have
    been maintaining it. But then, these people have spent a great
    deal of time preparing for such events. Hobies are not meant for it,
    but they can do it. The problem is other boats, and the lack of a
    set of iron sails. I'd rather do the Duxbury P-town run then be
    sailing on certain Summer Saturdays on Lake Winni because of all
    the bozos in the power boats.
    
    john
                                 

re several replies:

Yes, many sailors have made long voyages in small boats across open
waters, some by choice (as described in previous replies to this note)
and some by necessity (Captain Bligh's and Ernest Shackleton's being two
of the more famous). However, the fact that such voyages have been made
in no way makes them safe or prudent, nor should their success be used
to suggest that similar voyages should be undertaken. Much though we
might wish it not so, sailing on the ocean is dangerous even in a fully 
found (lovely phrase) vessel with an experienced crew, and undertaking
an ill-prepared voyage in an inappropriate vessel can easily kill you
and/or your crew (though usually it won't). As a normally compassionate 
human, I support the search for and rescue of all sailors who need help.
As a taxpayer, I am angered that funds are spent searching for and
rescuing people who don't know what they are doing and/or who shouldn't
be where they are (like sailing a Hobie cat offshore). There is a 
considerable difference between prudent risk-taking (which I do) and 
foolish and/or ignorant risk-taking (which I don't do and don't 
condone).

Just one man's opinion.

    ... but I'd recommend the following as MINIMUM equipment to prepare for
    the voyage.
    
    1.  Compass
    2.  Hand-held ship-to-shore radio
    3.  Flares
    4.  Air-horn
    
    Obviously, you'd have to package them in such a way as to keep them
    dry ... no small accomplishment on a Hobie if the wind's blowing at
    all.
    
    Also, as a precaution, take along a wet-suit, or something suitable in
    case something causes you to have to spend several hours in the water.
    It would also be a good idea to be aware of which way the tide's going
    to be taking you, and how fast, and when it's going to be turning the
    other way.
    
    Fact is, people DO make risky trips like this (I have in the past, but
    we all learn from our mistakes).  Just make sure you minimize your risk
    with as much advance preparation as possible.  And make sure you don't
    underestimate your sailing ability.  For example, can you reef the
    mainsail if you have to while underway ??  Can you even DROP the
    mainsail while underway !!  You might be required to if the wind kicks
    up.  Also, what will you do if you pitchpole and dismast?   I've done 
    this while playing off of Marblehead, and there wasn't ANY way we were 
    going to set the mast while the boat was in the water.  
    
    Citing examples of people performing wondrous feats of derring-do in
    small boats is wonderful.  But you can bet most (if not ALL) of those
    people spend MONTHS or YEARS preparing for their voyage.  And most or
    all of them have more sailing expertise than your average sailor.
    
    Just try to take all this into account before embarking on a trip like
    this.  Offshore is not the place to be learning your limitations.
    
    ... Bob

    I sailed a Hobie for a few years, primarily in sheltered waters.
    On a number of occasions we did sail in the English Channel. When
    we ventured into the Channel we did so in groups with a handheld
    VHF radio on board. We always had a 'godfather' not to far away.
    A godfather was always a small motor or sailing yacht who watched
    over us in case of trouble and was in regular contact with us. By
    sailig in company with other Hobies etc we made some long passages
    ie 70 nm of coastal sailing. The Hobie will take a lot of punishment
    but unless you are of gorrilla status it is questionable how much
    punishment you can take. We got into trouble once in fog but were
    able to find the 'godfather' (A larger Motor yacht) who was able
    to pinpoint our position and offer warming liquids etc. We always
    carried two hand compasses, flares, VHF, Waterproof Charts (2 of
    the same again), Wetsuits , first aid kit..........
    
    Thus far this season I have towed in 2 Cats who lost the wind and
    were drifting quite nicely on a 3 knt tide towards an unfriendly
    shore and had no way of showing they were in trouble.
                    
    One of the issues currently being debated over here is whether single
    handed racing should be allowed in the crowded waters of the English
    Channel.
    
            
    
                                               

    RE: .17  "Bligh and Shackleton"
    
    While both passages were incredible journeys, taken from necessity
    rather than a desire for adventure, I would hesitate to list Shackleton
    in the same league with Bligh.  While the latter was an outstanding
    seaman and navigator, Shackleton was a polar explorer and leader who
    was in charge of the boat, but was not actually much of a sailor. 

    As for small-boat cruising, the idea is more commonly accepted in the
    coastal areas of Britain than in the U.S.  Many people were surprised
    at my coastal cruising in Maine aboard a 12' Firefly sloop, but I was
    well equipped and wore an inflatable life vest whenever I was offshore.
    Flares, horn, flashlight, charts and a good compass are also important. 

    You may also want to experiment with some sort of jury rigged self
    steering gear as it can get tiresome being constantly at the tiller
    in a small boat.  I had a fairly simple rig made of shock cord that
    worked pretty well on a reach.
    

    I reread the original note. The requester did not state that he
    wanted to go from Duxbury to P-Town via tha direct open water route.
    The responder in .1 suggested the direct route. The reponse by .15
    was a reasonable alternative to the suggestion by .1. 
    
    I don't think we should  assume the original note was irresponsible
    based on the request as it was written.