Conference unifix::sailing

The cost of additional insurance for a charter varies with the insurance 
company. The last time I discussed this with an insurance agent, I was 
taken aback by the rates -- as high as $180 per week for $80 000 hull 
coverage. I would expect the surcharge rates to be in the $100 to $200 
per week range today. 

These rates say something very important about the risks to your boat if
you charter it -- they are high. We've chartered our boat three times,
to reasonably experienced sailors, two of whom were quite affluent with 
responsible, well-paid managerial positions. All three times our boat
suffered some minor damage. Once it was sailed into a ledge at 5 knots.
One of my most unpleasant sailing experiences was with the charterers of
a Hinckley Bermuda 40. These people were so incompetent and careless of
the boat that I called the charter agent to register a strong complaint.
Yes, there are careful, conscientious charterers, but the risks are not
insignificant. Have you ever wondered why so many used boat ads say
'never chartered'?  

One a positive note, your net income from chartering will, barring an 
act of the gods, never exceed your expenses, so you won't have to pay 
any income taxes. 

Alan

>    Does anyone know what it costs to buy insurance to cover one's boat
>    if it is available for charter?

You may be able to get better rates than mentioned in .-1 by signing up
for full-season charter coverage. Sometimes this is accompanied by an
additional per-charter charge.

I had a CAL-29 a few years back, and I chartered it three times. The first
two times were uneventful, but the third charterer let the anchor rode slip
out under the boat while getting under way, which fouled the prop, which
bent the shaft and laid her up for weeks waiting for an off-the-wall
flex-coupler.

One of the reasons that chartering is hard on boats is that the charterers
have no experience handling that particular boat. There is a good opportunity
for damaging a boat each time it is brought in to a dock or slip. A charterer
will be much more likely to damage a boat in this fashion for several reasons:

1) His/her boat-handling skills may be a bit rusty. There is a good chance
   that this is the first time the skipper has been sailing this year.

2) The skipper will have little or no experience maneuvering that particular
   kind of boat.

3) The skipper may have little or no experience with the local conditions,
   and the harbor and marina are probably not familiar.

4) There is a good chance the skipper is sailing with a crew he/she has
   not sailed with before, and the crew may have little or no sailing
   experience.

5) A charterer is more likely to rent a transient slip than a mooring.
   
I have chartered several boats, and I have managed to put scratches on two
of them in this manner. (In neither case did the charter outfit consider me
a bad experience, which gives you an idea of what a typical "bad" charter
turns out to be.)

If you want to get involved with chartering, my recommendation is to sell
your boat and charter somebody else's boat when you want to go sailing.

--RS

    IN THE PAST I'VE CHARTERED MY $5000.-, 22 FT. BOAT FOR $400.-/WK.
    MY INSURANCE POLICY ALLOWED THREE WEEKS OF CHARTERING WITH NO
    SURCHARGE.  I LOVED THE BOAT BUT RECOGNIZED THAT IT WAS NOT IN
    FLAWLESS CONDITION.  THE OLD SAILS WERE READY FOR REPLACEMENT AND A FEW
    MORE SCRATCHED WERE NOT A MAJOR PROBLEM.  BROKER TOOK 10%.
    I HELD SECURITY DEPOSIT, PERSONALLY AND SAILED WITH EACH CHARTERER
    ON FIRST DAY.  THE INCOME PAID THE BILLS AND THE ONLY INCIDENT
    WAS AN OVERFLOWING PORTA-POTTI, (UGH!).  OVERALL, A GOOD EXPERIENCE.
    
    NOW, IF I HAD A FLAWLESS BOAT OF HIGHER VALUE, I WOULDN'T DREAM
    OF CHARTERING IT !                   
    

re .3:

>>>    IN THE PAST I'VE CHARTERED MY $5000.-, 22 FT. BOAT FOR $400.-/WK.

In my very limited experience as an owner chartering his boat,
charterers are primarily concerned about the price of the boat. They
really don't care about the boat itself or its equipment. Our 32' boat
was listed with a reputable charter agent for three years ($800 per week
for an exceptionally well-equipped and cared for boat). Three charters.
Seems all the charterers preferred less expensive boats with basic
equipment for $700 per week. It also seems that charter rates increase
more slowly than the value of the boat. I once inquired about chartering
a Valiant 40 with a $5000 insurance deductible. When I asked why the
deductible was so large, the owner replied 'if the size of the
deductible concerns you, then perhaps you lack the competence or
confidence to handle the boat safely'. By the way, some insurance 
companies insist that all charters be arranged through a professional 
charter company. 

    re .4
    
    >> charterers are primarily concerned about the price of the boat.
    
    As an owner AND a charterer, this is *very* true.  I have chartered
    two years so far in the Med and prime considerations have been :
    
    	1.	Price
    	2.	Size : ie can 4 people sun themselves at the same time?
    	3.	Basic equipment : Has it got a cruising chute for the
    		light Med winds and does it have roller reefing?
    	4.	What is the cruising area.
    
    	nnn	Optional equipment - echo-sounder, log, etc.
    
    The ONLY piece of equipment I've ever thought might be good was
    a log, but really just for interest. Who needs a sounder when you
    can see throught at least 50' of clear water? OK, so you have to
    keep a careful watch when approaching land, but that's what foredeck
    hands are for isn't it?
    
    Incidentally, the only refundable I've ever been asked for was #50
    deposit on a cruising chute. Maybe I'm lucky?
    
    Brian

    RE: COST OF INSURANCE
    
    I presently carry coverage for $26,000. hull damage, for personal
    usage.  this coverage cost about $425. per year through Blackadar
    Insurance Co.
    When I called them to ask what the insurance would be if I were
    to use the boat for charter when I was not going to be using it,
     I was told that my present insurer would not cover it, but they
    could get coverage for me for between $1300. and $1500. per year.
    They would also have to know the name of the person who would be
    responsible for the chartering, his level of sailing experience
    beyond being licensed, etc. and he would have to be specifically
    named on the policy in the event of any liability suit on the part
    of any passenger.
    
    It would appear from the prior listed replies that just because
    one lists ones boat as available, one can not assume that it will
    in fact be chartered; and at the apparent going rates, it would
    take at least 3 weeklong charters just to cover the insurance premium!
    

    Just as a follow up to 804.6, I've found that insurance becomes
    affordable when you deal with a local agent.. I found an insurance
    agent in Boothbay Harbor, where the boat is moored and where it
    would be chartered from who will give me the same coverage I had
    before for personal use at a premium which is about 2/3's what I
    was previously paying. He then would extend the coverage to cover
    the boat while being chartered during the period from June 1 to
    Sept 30 for an additional $350 per season.  The total cost of coverage
    wound up being about $150 per year more for charter coverage than
    I had been paying for just personal usage.
    It also helped that the insurance agent knew the chartering agent
    and set his rates based on that knowlege and the agent's past history!

    First- Charter insurance.  Last summer I chartered Jim Suyo's (@MKO)
    Pearson 323.  He needed a charter rider on his policy.  He got 4 weeks
    coverage for $ 50.00- this extended his normal policy for my charter.
    His ins. company was AMICA in Rhode Island.
    
    Second- as an frequent charterer (I live in St. Louis and have a
    24' S2 here but charter on the east coast most every summer) I have to
    say in 11 years the only damage I've caused was to drop a boat   
    hook overboard.  I have to believe there are many other competent 
    charterers out there too.  What is needed is detailed screening of
    potential charterers, which will keep the costs down for everyone.

    

    Most of these replies concerned themselves with the added insurance
    for boat coverage.  The greatest concern should be for liability....in
    this day and age this is where i would be worried.

re liability insurance:

The insurance carried by the boat's owner pays for damage to the boat
caused by the charterer. If the charterer were obviously careless or
negligent, the insurance company will still pay for the damage to the
boat. However, they are then very likely to sue to charterer to recover
their losses. I'm not sure, but my impression is that the liability
coverage in the boat's policy does not cover the charterer. That is,
charterers have no liability insurance coverage (other than that
provided by a homeowner's policy or a personal liability policy). 

Alan