Conference unifix::sailing

    Good day,  I am Hank Johnson in the Virginia Beach office and have
    a Hunter 37 I keep in the middle Chesapeake in Jackson Creek (off
    the Piankatank River).  
    
    I have had the boat for four years and have yet to unstep the mast.
     I check the rigging twice a year and tune as necessary.  Most of
    the people in my marina do the same.  Unless there is major work,
    why unstep?  A good bosuns chairs worth it.
    
    The winters on the Chesapeake are not too severe and my slip is
    well protected (wet store).  Perhaps yur situation is different.
    

    I havent had mine down yet (4 years).  I slack the rig before hauling
    each fall and check all the fittings each spring.   Its a bit of
    a hassle to go over the stick when its up, but I have seen others
    with more hassle because the yardbirds bashed the mast around,
    damaged furling gear/fairings and stored outdoors unprotected (masts
    are supposed to drain when upright, who knows what goes on inside
    when they are laying outside in the dirt).
    
    Walt

Well, as usual, I'm out of step. Our mast is keel stepped also and is 
about 50' long. Since we have the boat trucked home each year, we must 
have the mast unstepped. However, even if the boat were left in a 
boatyard, I'd seriously consider having the mast unstepped every year or 
every other year at most. With the mast unstepped:

  It is easy to very carefully inspect the standing rigging for broken
  strands (I found one this year -- groan) and cracked swage fittings.
  Careful inspection is difficult from a bosun's chair. 

  Rigging tangs can be removed, carefully inspected, and crack tested. 

  Halyards can be easily removed, inspected for chafe, etc.

  Masthead sheaves can be removed, cleaned, and greased.

  The cable to the masthead VHF antenna can be inspected for corrosion and 
  the connector replaced if necessary. Try soldering at the masthead.

  It is easy to clean and wax the mast.

  It is easy to rebed fittings, winch pads, and the like.

  Electrical connections for the masthead tricolor light (I suggest 
  getting one if you don't have one) can be cleaned and lubricated.

  Turnbuckles can be easily disassembled, cleaned, and lubricated.

  Etc.

Sure, some of this can be done with the mast stepped, but it is much 
more difficult and there is the risk of missing a problem or dropping a 
part overboard. Granted, stepping/unstepping is somewhat expensive 
(but still less expensive than replacing a fallen rig) and there is 
some risk of damage. There is also some risk in not unstepping 
periodically. 

By the way, one of the reasons offshore insurance is so expensive (when
available) is that losing the rig usually means losing the boat (no way
to get the boat back to shore due to insufficient fuel capacity and
difficulty in jurying rigging) and there are all too many fragile rigs
these days. 

Alan

    I don't know why the typical cruiser would want to pull the mast
    every year, especially with aluminum masts and internal halyards.
    At our yard it is required that masts be removed as they use a crane
    to swing boats around into position for storage. As much experience
    as they have, when that mast is hoisted back in, that is when the
    most damage occurs, to spreader bases when the sling slips, as it
    always does, to all the items at the top of the mast, flys, antennas,
    wind vanes and aneometers. They are forever nipping and slicing
    insulation on the wires that run up thru the base of the mast.
    I have watched two repairs going on while the mast hung over hands.
    I would rather make a repair from a bosun's chair myself.
    With the storage of most masts, the outboard ends of spreaders don't
    conveniently swivel. You end up with possible kinks in your shrouds
    as they wrap the components to the mast for winter storage.
    
    If you are a racer and really keep your gear under severe strain
    week after week during the season, then it would seem to me
    to be a good idea. Otherwise, perhaps pulling it once every 4 or
    5 years would be my plan. Do your work right then and have it
    set right back in. That way you will  avoid some of the storage
    complications.
    
    My current boat has a wood stick. I would leave it in. I would 
    however have the boat stored reversing the direction each year
    such that the sun would not have at one side year after year. My
    halyards are external so the sun would be cooking them year round
    also. While I'm one of those "wood for ever" cats, I sure would
    not hesitate to put an aluminum mast in if mine ever "went".!!
    
    Don
    

re .4:

True, the average boatyard is less than careful at handling masts and 
boats. That's why I always supervise and do as much of the work myself 
as I can. 

I disagree that careful mast/rig inspection/maintenance is less
important or critical for cruising boats than racers. I believe it is
even more important for cruising boats. The typical racing boat is
sailed with a large crew near shore with abundant help nearby in case of
a disaster like losing the rig. Many cruising boats are sailed
shorthanded in waters rather far from immediate aid. We mostly sail
doublehanded in the Gulf of Maine and have made many overnight passages
in not very good weather. Losing the rig in a gale 25 miles or more
offshore with a crew of two would be a life threatening experience. 

I don't really enjoy routine maintenance of our boat, but I do it as 
conscientiously as I can because the consequences of neglect can be 
serious. One broken strand in 1x19 wire reduces the strength of the wire 
12.5%, and if one has broken, more are likely to break.

Alan

    The yard where I was storing the boat had a closed ended travel
    lift and could not launch/recover the boat with the stick up.  Because
    of this I never had the decision to make.  The new boat will be
    in a different yard and they have an open ended lift so, maybe,
    I will have a choice.  I have always been present during the stepping
    and unstepping of my mast and the yard has used good, but not great,
    care in doing so.  Most of my aggravation came from the storage
    racks for the masts.  People (OTHER SAILORS) were constantly moving
    masts around on the racks without regard to others.  After touching
    up and polishing my mast last year in an open area on a rack I only
    returned the next week to find my mast UNDER two others.
    
    My questions are:
    
    1. Will most yards give you the choice of stepping or leaving the
    mast up?
    
    2. Windage will certainly be a factor that must be considered. What
    is enough protection from the winter wind to allow leaving the mast
    up?
    
    3. I'll be using stands under the new boat rather than the cradle
    I am used to.  Can stands take the extra loads of windage from the
    mast?
    
    and finally 4.  I haven't seen any boats (dry stored) with there
    mast up in my area (Eastern Long Island Sound).  Does anyone in
    this area store with the stick up?
  
    
    
    

    re.5
    
    Allen,who said that careful mast/rig  insp/maint. is less important
    or critical for cruising boats than racers?
    
    Careful inspection/maintenance is critical, period. With that as
    a minimum, certainly the frequency and depth of the inspection/maint.
    would increase with heavily stressed racers.
    
    I was a participant in a dismasting and subsequant sinking of a
    keel daysailor some years ago, in 25 K winds just inside the Gurnet.
    You don't have to be off shore to be in a life threatening situation.
                                         
    There is a set of procedures and inspections I follow before I leave
    the dock to go out into Narragansett bay. I would have to admit
    they would be a lot more stringent if I were headed for Bermuda.
    That doesn't say I treat the first case with less importance.
    
    Don
    

    RE: .6
    
    Frank, I would say that >80% of the boats stored in the yards along
    the Western shore of Narrangansett Bay leave their masts up.
    
    Yes the windage increases. I have only seen one boat get knocked
    off of yard stands in 4 years on the Bay and that was a Camper-
    Nicholsen 39, which had the bad luck of both exposed beam to a high
    wind and severe rain erosion under the stands over about 24 hours.
    
    My yard makes a practice of touring the yard at least once a week
    to tighten stands and check on conditions. So do I (for my boat
    and a few either side).
    
    So far the biggest problem leaving the stick up is creating a cover
    to go around the hardware, and the water which finds its way to
    the bilge from the mast.  Since it freezes, one has to be careful
    to pump any out at every opportunity (using a hand pump which can
    be drained - some pumps will trap water which can freeze and damage
    pumps and hoses).  I tried antifreeze, but when you get much more
    than a 50/50 mix of that pink stuff with rainwater it freezes anyway,
    so the best bet is to visit after each rainstorm before the average
    temp drops below freezing and pump it.
    
    Walt

    Walt hit it right on the head. 
    
    My main concern is coverage for the boat and keeping the boat (internal
    and external) dry and ice free. If I leave the mast in, it seems like
    it would force me to slice the cover in two to go on either side of the
    mast, or get new material to cover the boat fore and aft of the mast.
    The big problem with covers is that the wind can get under them and
    lift, possibly knocking the boat off its stands. 
    
    I took delivery of the boat in March, and bought a huge cover that
    makes the thing look like a giant tamale' when all bundled up.  We had
    a couple of snow storms late last March and it seemed to be worth the
    effort.
                         
    I'm still on the fence.  The cover still seems to be a swaying (no
    pun intended) factor.  I have to believe that covering your boat
    properly will protect the gelcoat from both old man winter, and
    the sun, giving it some extra life.  At least 1/3 less sun effects
    if covered for 4 months, right?
    
    My feelings beyond the cover are: 
    
    1. Will the windage of a 60 foot mast be enough to move a 20,000#
       boat around on its stands?  People have told me that they have
       seen boats rocking on their stands due to this.  My boat would
       be on jackstands.
    
    2. I have an ISOMAT anodized mast, and the boat/rigging are new.
       I inspected it all last spring, and took photographs of all welds,
       swaged fittings, and turnbuckles.  All look good.  I will of
       course inspect again next spring, but have to believe right now
       that all will be fine.
    
    3. The possible damage caused by yard doolies who usually don't
       deal with keel stepped masts, wedges, or something this big.
       I'm more afraid of them dinging the gelcoat, or scraping the
       interior trying to get the mast out.   
    
    4. The weight of the mast.  Would the weight of the mast, supported
       horizontally on a rack I would build, cause any damage to sections
       of the deck (say a rack around the cockpit pedestal) where support
       is not as strong as in other areas?
                        
    5. Would you still remove the masthead gear for winter, or just
       let it sit up there?
    
    Rick
    
    * To be honest, this is the "normal" hauling I have done on a big
      boat.  Other years the mast got pulled because of Gloria damage,
      or I was selling the boat and the dealer was picking it up, etc.
      Prior to that I had a smaller boat where I could just unstep the
      damn thing by hand.
    

    I unstep every year - but then I have to as I store at home and
    I doubt if the boys in blue would take kindly to a 40' high unit
    being towed through the town!
    
    However, on another point raised in -.1 : covering up for weather
    protection. One of the local marinas is offering a "cocooning" service
    this year which I've not seen before. Basically they wrap the boat
    in a transparent shrink-wrap rather like cling-film and heat it
    to shrink fit. Now ... I'm not too sure about this as I reckon you
    could seal in a lot of damaging moisture and the airflow through
    a traditional, yet well fitted, tarpaulin is much needed. My own
    is covered in a tarpaulin that is held about 1' off the topsides
    by the mast laid horizontally and the hatchways are left open by
    about an inch or so for ventilation - over 2 years so far, no problems
    at all and the boat has smelt sweet when opened up in spring with
    no sign of mould growth. Obviously, a good clean-out before storage
    is essential.
    
    Brian

re .9:

I too have heard of boats being toppled off stands by high winds. The 
windage of the mast and rigging is perhaps as much as the windage of the 
rest of the boat (ie, leaving the mast up doubles the windage). My worry 
would be in direct proportion to how exposed to the wind the boat is. 

    I remember about four or five years ago seeing pictures in Soundings
    of a bunch (5-6?) of boats tipped over at Bend Boat Basin in RI.
    They were all on stands, on a hot topped parking lot and it didn't
    appear that there was any sort of domino effect. Something about
    a squall from an unusual direction???
    
    I can't recall if their masts were stepped but I think that Bend
    does allow storage that way.
    
    John_R

    Yup, I SAW the boats.  Every one had the masts stepped.  What a
    mess.  And yup, every one was on Brownells.

    RE: covers
    
    I have 3 separate covers.  One covers the boat from the stays, aft.
    One on the starboard side forward of the stays to the centerline
    and the other the port side forward of the stays to the centerline.
    
    I have one chainplate to support the swept spreader rig, which means
    the single lower and single upper shroud come to the deck at the
    same point about a foot aft of the mast.  The split covers forward 
    let me go around the mast easily.  One could also sew a rope into
    the cover which allows a single forward cover to go around the mast.
    The same could be done for multiple chainplates, but it gets more
    complicated.  I added grommets to the covers to allow them all to
    be laced together and minimize the leaks.
    
    
    I also make it a point to have an opening at both the bow and stern
    in the cover to permit air circulation. I also leave the vents up,
    and the hatches on vent.  I was burned one winter by mildew on a
    tightly closed boat, and so far, circulation has prevented a repeat.
    
    
    My expectations of a cover are to keep most of the snow off the
    boat and to provide some UV protection to the topsides.
    
    
    RE: mast unstepping
    
    I have already given my opinions.  As far as advice to someone else,
    I would say the biggest risk to weigh is the exposure of the storage
    location to severe winds. Masthead, in my opinion, is reasonably
    protected by the Cowessett hills, in that what strong wind does
    pass thru the place is directed North and South (around the hills)
    which is the way most all the boats face in storage.
    
    If that risk is acceptable (and historically well founded) then
    in my opinion one only need the attributes and liabilities of each
    method to determine the winner.
    
    I felt the historical prescedent at Masthead (and my current marina)
    rendered the risk acceptable.  The lack of care exhibited by the
    yard pulling other's sticks (both places again) convinced me that
    up was less hassle (but I did need to think about how best to inspect 
    the rig and do things like wax/lube).
    
    Walt

    I pulled the boat last Tuesday, one day before storm warnings in
    the bay and right before the snow hit.  Felt a bit strange, one
    day I'm sailing, the next (bang) its winter.
    
    Anyway, I've left the mast up.  Several things contributed to the
    decision.  
    
    	1.  The risk of damage up vs damage taking it out and putting
            it back in.  I really don't believe that they would have
            not scratched something or put a few dings in the boat.
    	    On the other hand, it would take hurricane force winds to
            knock it off of the 7 stands its on, and its in a pretty
    	    protected location.
    
    	2.  The cost ($2.00/ft each way).
    
    	3.  The fact that the mast would overhang the boat by 17'. 
            Since it could not be stored with an equal amount of overhang
    	    (they wanted to get the travellift by) ,  all 17' would
    	    overhang the stern.  This seemed like it would easily damage
            the mast.  They recommended storing the mast inside ($2.00/ft
            more of course).
    
    I'll try and cover the boat as best I can.  
    
    Rick

    Even though I've always been a loyal advocate of unstepping the mast,
    I think I've just changed my mind.  This year some minimum-wage schmuck
    with the IQ of oat bran cut the electrical wires inside the mast
    rather than unplug the connector.  His excuse . . . "well, there
    was a lot of tape around it and I couldn't spend all day on YOUR
    mast."
    
    This was at the Masthead Marina in Warwick.  The yard manager has
    promised to make repairs (solder, no crimp connectors), but the
    experience sure gave me some insight into the quality of people
    pulling my boat.  To top it off, they now charge $3 a foot for
    the mast each way.  Next year, she stays up!!!!!!!
    
    

re -.1:

A couple of comments (well, what else do you expect from me?):

Yard workers are ill-paid to either keep costs down or profits up or both. You 
really can't expect caring, quality work (unless you're willing to pay for 
it -- even then you don't always get it). At least the yard manager agreed to
repair the damage, and, if the manager has any sense, he's short one worker. 

We use an inexpensive yard (ok, a really cheap yard). We ALWAYS participate in 
the launching and hauling of our boat (the yard should be paying us). We have 
no hesitation about objecting to something a yardworker is doing or about to 
do. Insofar as possible, we have the work done right. Sure, this uses vacation 
time, but it is worth it. Also, at many if not most yards, hauling time is 
limited by the tide, so launching/hauling must be done in a rush. When hauling 
we arrive at the travel lift or crane with the mast wiring disconnected, the
turnbuckles cotter pins removed, the turnbuckles loosened, halyards tied to 
the mast, etc. The less work that yard has to do, the most time they can spend 
being careful (in theory at least) and the less likely they are to do 
something stupid (like cut wires -- you should have untaped them yourself). 
Most years I even go up the mast prior to hauling to remove the tricolor 
light, Windex, windspeed transducer, and antennas. Yards won't take 
responsibility for damage to masthead gear. 

Alan

    Ditto to Alan's comment.  We spend a considerable amount of time
    removing all electronics and wind instruments, disconnecting wires and
    hydraulic hoses, loosening stays, removing halyards (putting in
    messengers).
    
    My message is never expect the yard to treat your boat as anything but
    a piece of trash and try to idiot-proof the job.  If they show concern
    and respect for your property you can be pleasantly surprised.
    
    Dave

    Like the old saying goes ... if you want something done right, do it
    yourself.  At Jubilee you don't have any choice.  They'll point you to
    the crane and help you haul the boat after you've unstepped your own
    mast.  It may be a pain, but at least your boat gets the personal
    attention it deserves.
    
    ... Bob