Conference unifix::sailing

    For about 8 years I avoided varnishing because it was supposed to
    be too much work.
    
    This past spring, I changed tacks and varnished the topside teak.
    This amounts to hand rails, hardware pads, and companionway woodwork.
    
    Now I dont know why I waited so long. The teak has looked super
    all season without any work (other than washing). I plan to recoat
    it sometime this month to get thru the winter without problems.
    
    Walt

    RE: using the Sudsy Amonia.
    
    Can you give an idea of the technique you used to apply it?  Sounds
    like a great idea, but do you scrub or just let it sit?  How long
    do you let it stand on the Teak before rinsing?  Any problems with
    other surfaces, i.e.; gel coat?  Does it leave the teak white or
    brown?  
    
    Don't know the chemical reasons, but if I can find anything cheaper
    than the commercial products that works as well I'll go for it.
    
    

We use Boraxo. Wet the teak, sprinkle on the Boraxo, scrub with a nylon 
brush, and rinse thoroughly. Even quite gray teak turns a nice, light 
brown. 

The best tool for maintaining either oiled or varnished teak is your
checkbook ..... :-)

    I was able to clean the teak at one time with nothing more than
    a brush and water.  Most of the time all we are doing is removing
    badly oxidized teak oil.  Try it sometime after it has been raining
    all day and your teak needs help.
    
    I have also seen folks use mild acid solutions to soften up the
    old stuff (like boric acid - which can be had at the drug store
    real cheap).  Trouble with acids and alkalies is they are hard on
    wax jobs.
    
    RE: .4   ...maybe your checkbook...mine is always empty
    
    Walt

    Hello noters!  I have a 47 foot all teak ketch which has painted
    topsides, a natural teak deck and varnished teak houses, rails,
    bulworks, caprails, cleats, pads,etc,etc,etc.  I bought the boat
    with a partner about 3 years ago and I now feel like something of
    an expert on bright teak. 
    
    Because the boat was in terrible condition when we bought it, it
    was necessary to wood all of the brightwork the first year.  This
    was an experience which I do not care to repeat!  After we wooded
    everything we built up the finish with 4 coats of Z-spar captains'
    varnish.  Once we had filled the grain with the Z-spar, we applied
    5 coats of a product called Nylene.  Nylene is a urathane based
    varnish which was developed for use on basketball courts.  Its
    terrific!  (Nylene, by the way is available from Marine Specialties
    in Greenwich, CT. and costs about $20.00 per quart.)  Nylene is
    designed for marine use with U-V filters etc. and is guaranteed
    for 7 years.  The finish is magnificent.  
    
    After making the initial investment of many many hours to get the
    brightwork in good shape, all we have to do to keep it that way
    is wash down and apply two coats of Nylene each spring and fall.
    The application is simple involving a very light burnishing of the
    top layer of varnich with light BRONZE WOOL (steel wool leaves tiny
    bits of steel which rust!), a quick wipe with a tack rag and application
    of a light coat of the varnish with a good nautral bristle brush.
    Despite the very substantial amount of brightwork, the whole process
    takes only 5 or 6 hours per coat.
    
    The decks are easy.  We simply scrub with boric acid and wash down
    with water.  The decks are a beautiful very light natural teak,
    don't leak and are the best non-slip surface going.
    
    Prior to buying our current boat, we owned a Cheoy Lee sloop which
    also had lots of brightwork.  Tried a lot of things with that boat
    before settling on varnished brightwork with nylene.  Don't use
    Deks Ole!  It is much more difficult to maintain and turns black
    if you don't maintain it to the book.  Don't oil your decks-they
    get VERY slippery and we found that the oil seems to break down
    the thiokol over time and the decks start to leak.  
    
    Sorry to pontificate,
    
    Regards,
    
    Geoff Burr
    
    
    P.S. Alan is right about the cost of yard maintained brightwork.
    We asked two yards to quote on getting our brightwork in shape when
    we bought the boat.  The lower of the two quotes was $30K.  You
    understand why we did it ourselves!
    

    RE .2  My "technique" as such was to pour the Sudsy Ammonia into
    a small bucket, dip nylon hand brush into it, scrub, let stand 1-3
    minutes (until I had gone onto next area), rinse with brush and lots
    of water.  No problems with yellowing of gelcoat or other staining
    that I have seen.  Not sure yet on whether it weakens or otherwise
    affects caulking. It left the wood a light or golden brown color-
    very acceptable to me.  The next time I do it, I'll try cutting
    the ammonia with water 2:1 or 3:1 first.
    
    The PermaTeak dressing required you to "sterilize" the teak with
    a bleach/water solution first, which I did.  Don't know how much
    it lightened the teak, but it sure brightened the decks.  The PermaTeak
    is a pain to work with but looks good (so far).  It's literature claims that
    there is no clear UV filter, and that the brown color of the PermaTeak
    is due to their superior UV filtering agent.  The problem is that
    if you don't wipe up any spills or drips onto the ajacent gelcoat,
    it looks like a brown paint spill.  PermaTeak is water based, so
    wipeups are easy, but if it dries you need to get it off with alcohol.
    It looks good now (don't they all) and I'll report on how well it
    holds up next spring.
    
    On the issue of varnishing vs. oiling, besides the question of amount
    of work involved, I have a thing about boats trying to be something
    that they're not.  Since I equate varnish with brightwork and
    brightwork with yachts, it would look funny to me to see a small
    boat with a deepgloss varnish job more appropriate to a Hinckly.
    Is there an exterior varnish without a gloss finish?
    
		Travis Belton

    One method I've discovered as being easy to clean exterior teak is the
    use of a hand power sprayer (the kind you use to blow stuff off the
    bottom of your boat and wash your car with). The marina I'm at has one
    with a long hose; you simply turn it on, put the tip 2-4" from the wood
    and turn it on. The force of the water blows the dirt right off the
    wood leaving a soft brown color that will last awhile if left natural.
    We used it this way to clean prior to varnishing and it did super; even
    in rough teak.

    Ok folks, next question:
    
    Instead of varnishing teak for that beautiful natural color, can you
    use something like Thompson's water seal on the decks, caprails, etc
    with good results?
    
    I'm trying to keep the wood looking good AND protected without spending
    my weekends maintaining varnish. Some of my Teak is beginning to split
    so I know I've got to do SOMETHING.
    
    Anybody have a thought on an alternative to varnish or that dyed paint
    stuff that you'd put on fences? Would water seal on the deck cause a
    massively slippery mess to walk on?

    One thing to be concerned about with some of the preservatives or
    sealers which are not specifically made for boats (and probably some
    that are) is their compatability or aggressiveness with the sealers and
    bedding compounds on your deck and fittings.
    
    I looked at the package for one of the products listed in an earlier
    reply to this note, and the package warnings kept me from trying it.  The
    warning was something along the lines of, don't use near or on
    polysulfides.  I think some of the sealers or bedding compounds used on my 
    boat are polysomethings.
    
    djc
    

    I think your problem with varnished teak is possibly you are not using
    the right varnish. All of the exterior teak on my boat, a Morris 36, is
    varnished. This includes main and laz hatch as well as cap rails,
    dorraid boxes, grab rails, and cabin trim. I put on one coat a year,
    and it lasts all season here in the North East.
    
    The varnish I use is Interlux two part, sorry I don't remember the
    number. The varnish must have a lot of filters, because it stays
    on all season, and continues to look good.
    
    I started with bare wood, and put on three coats the first year. After
    that I just give it a light sanding and slap another coat on.
    
    I like the look of varnished wood, and also I think it provides the
    best protection for the wood. 
    
                                       Bill Hill

    Thought I'd put my latest findings on my experiments with Teak cleaning
    and protecting...
    
    I have a boat chocked full of teak - caprails, deck, large bulwarks,
    stern pulpit, bowsprit, etc. I have found that a solution of liquid joy
    diswashing detergent (very little) and some clorox bleach (3/4 - 1 cup
    per gallon 0f water) used with a rag and medium 3M Dobie scrubber (the
    ones on a flat plastic handled surface for easy gripping) works great.
    Remember to wear gloves. Clorox is murder on hands.
    
    Rather than varnish or use teak oils this time, I thought I'd try using
    a wax. Yep, sounds bizarre, but I'm real pleased with the results.  I
    cleaned the wood well and let dry, then rebedded the deck with new
    marine polysulfide (a.k.a. the black death). I then took a combination
    of bees wax and Carnuba wax and coated every wooden surface on the
    boat. The bees wax, because of it's small molecular structure will
    penetrate wood unbelievably well. The carnuba wax forms a tight seal
    over the bees wax as it tends to naturally rise to the surface when
    rubbing. The added bonus to this is no taping or worrying about
    overspill. Since it's wax, you simply make the rest of the boat look
    good at the same time. It greatly eases the task for me.
    
    The difference in doing this and an automobile is that you don't wait
    for the wax to dry before rubbing. I warmed it up to a runny 
    consistency and rubbed it into the wood, let stand and soak into the
    wood a minute or two and then put on another coat and began buffing 
    after 1 or two minutes while still damp. The shine is incredible.
    
    I also did this to my teak decks. They now are virtually waterproofed
    from rain and spray. I've also discovered that the non-skid
    characteristics are greatly enhanced for bare feet and boat shoes, but
    become an nightmare for anyone coming aboard wearing leather soles on 
    deck.
    
    It's now been 4 months of time since I did this. The wood still looks
    great - a light natural teak color with no greying. Since this would 
    normally  be the time to once again do the teak oil, I'm going to probably 
    put another coat of wax on the wood once we get past our current 
    cold spell and before winter sets completely in.
    
    I'll let you know how it survives winter.
    
    Robert 

    
    	Ummmm... watch out with bleach! I once was washing my hands with
    some Palmolive, and it just wasn't doing it. So I sprinkled on some
    Ajax (new_improved_with_bleach) and it worked great- and got nice and
    warm. Gave me a headache, tho. Turns out I was washing with a mix that
    also put out Mustard Gas.
    
    	OOOOoops
    
    	Scott

    What percentage of bees wax to carnuba did you decide on?

    Well, as luck would have it, I can't tell you exactly what the % was.
    Let me do some research and I'll post as time allows. BTW, after
    several layers of ice on the boat has come and gone, it still looks and
    works great in keeping moisture out of the wood...