Conference turris::cooks

    
     I hope you have LOTS of money Mike because they are BIG BUCKS.
    The four burner model I looked at was around $3.5K. You can't
    argue with the quality but the money was just toooo much for
    me to justify. I like the Roper I bought instead and would buy
    it again.
    
    -mike
    
     <you still a rich relocatee????>
    

Sure...buying it for the wife, eh?  And, like, you aren't going use it at all!
(nudge nudge wink wink)

Roper makes a line of gas stoves.  I never heard of them either, 'till I was 
looking for a gas stove for my house.  Then I found they've been around for 
years, and have an excellent reputation.  I have a run of the mill home one, 
but they make quite a line of them.

						     
							- JP

  Re .-1, Viking is a US company which makes ranges mainly for
  commercial (restaurant) use. They recently started offering a line for
  residential (home) use. There are some differences (so I'm told): 1.
  Homes don't receive gas at as high a pressure as restaurants so the
  burners have to be different; 2. they don't have the necessary kitchen
  construction to withstand the heat of commercial ranges; 3. they don't
  have the exhaust facilities to vent the high volumes of waste products
  of a commercial range; maybe a couple of other things, too. I'm led to
  believe that the Viking home units have been designed to eliminate
  these problems.

  The main advantages of commercial ranges over home units are: 1. finer
  heat control; 2. higher maximum heat output; 3. durability.

  My wife used commercial ranges while in cooking school, and has wanted
  one for a long time, so when Viking came out with this new line, I
  thought it might be a good idea. The burners have a heat output of
  15,000 BTU/hr, which is higher than gas burners on home cooktops. If I
  recall, only one home cooktop came close to that: the Kitchen-Aid
  "daisy burner" cooktop has two burners with maximum heat output of
  12,000 BTU/hr. All other cooktops and ranges I've looked at have
  between 8,000 and 10,000 BTU/hr max heat output. So they take somewhat
  longer to boil a pot of water than an electric burner, and it makes
  frying at really high temperatures impossible (I can vouch for this -
  many home gas cooktops do a decent job, but a restaurant stove is
  really amazing). The Kitchen-Aid was my first choice until I saw the
  Viking. But the Kitchen-Aid is also a lot less expensive - around $500
  for the cooktop (you'd still need an oven).

  The main thing I'm concerned with on the Viking range is its
  reliability (once I get past the problem of price, that is). I'd hate
  to have to pay/wait/pay/wait if it developed a problem.

  I will admit right now: nobody *needs* a restaurant range at home
  unless they do catering or heavy entertaining. It's mostly the yuppie
  instinct which motivates this interest. But my wife has been drooling
  for one of these for so long, I thought it would be worth it. You
  don't have to be practical *all* the time. Like I said, it's less than
  a new car, and, for us, a lot more fun.

  JP, are you kidding? We have our biggest fights in the kitchen, and
  once the kitchen becomes a really nice place for my wife to be (which
  it will if that thing shows up), I'll probably *never* be allowed in
  there to touch it. I might get near it in the middle of the night just
  to look at it, but cook on it - I doubt it :-)

    
    
     Don't worry Mike, I won't tell!!! ;-) The Roper stove I have has
    one 15k BTU burner and the other three are 10K. So when I stirfry
    or need really high heat I have one really hot burner. It's a high
    end model and cost $850. but it was alot less than the Viking I
    was looking at. The Viking is a wonderful stove and if I ran a B+B
    or such I'd buy one but for everyday home use I just couldn't
    justify it. Even though I did try but Judy just wouldn't hear it!!!
    
    
    
    -mike
    

Mike, where'd you buy your Roper? I haven't seen them in Lechmere.

    The Frugal Gourmet keeps telling viewers to contact their local
    Gas company to have them crank one burner up for super-heat. Certainly
    won't replace a "Viking", but might help some of us...has anybody
    every tried it?
    

I got my Roper at MCM in Leominster.

						     
							- JP

Well, Fellow Cooks, I remember this note from 1989 when it was originally
written. Don't think I've even _read_ COOKS much since then (got a "real" job,
or at least one that doesn't give much office time for NOTES).

I bought a new house with an electric range (yuch!). We managed to rationalize
two things into the purchase price (i.e. we budgeted for these things at the
time we figured out whether we could afford the house): a Viking range, and
central air.

The range is awesome. We got the biggest one, the 6 burner/griddle/two oven
version. Could you replace the capabilities for less money? Sure. You can
replace a Mercedes with a Pinto, too :-) Why is it great?

1. Having two ovens means (obviously) you can cook different things at
different temperatures, but also you can have a warming oven whilst cooking
other things. 

2. It is designed to be used heavily, and is therefore amazingly simple to
clean. The burners are pretty well isolated from drips, the stove top is in
three pieces each of which fit in a sink, and anything that spills ends up on
grease trays/traps which slide right out from the front of the range! There's a
hole at the front of the griddle for grease; and a broiler-pan like tray that
make the grease from the griddle easy to clean up.

3. It's HOT with a very uniform flame. 15000 BTUs. Know how your gas range
tends to self-extinguish at very low flame? Not this guy. Six months and
Scott's never wrecked the rice :-) There is a down-side to this in that it is
that much easier to do stupid things if you're not careful (set towels on fire,
burn food for example). On the other hand, it's easier to flambe & saut�.

4. The griddle, while not used every day/night, also doubles as a warming tray.

So, refinance your home, sell your kids... 

-scott

P.S. Get a hood, too. 15000 BTU * (6 burners + griddle + 2 ovens) = a lotta
heat.

P.P.S. There are two dealers in the Boston area - Fletcher's in Nashua and
Percy's in Worcester. I bought from Percy's but would recommend Fletcher's.

Scott, thanks very much for your note.

You did forget one detail: the ovens aren't self-cleaning! (But they're
easier than most to clean).

Since Viking, several other commercial suppliers have come out with
residential units. I've seen ads for Vulcan and one other brand whose
name I've forgotten. Does anyone know of a dealer for any of these in
the Greater Maynard area? I'd like to pick up some literature and/or
take a look.

Thanks again.

    I know Harbor in Boston (near the north end) has all the commercial stoves,
    as well as at least the Viking home stoves, but I doubt if they're
    open on weekends :-(

    Is the main difference in being home certified that the stove doesn't
    require something like bricks around it?

    I've used a Vulcan commercial stove and it was like heaven compared to
    a typical home range.  Unfortunately it's capable of doing things like
    burning the wooden handles on your Le Cruset pots if you're not careful!
    Those burners can really put out a flame when they're turned up.

    - Jim

> Is the main difference in being home certified that the stove doesn't
> require something like bricks around it?

Something like that. My reply .5 in this note (first paragraph) listed
some of what I've been told are the differences. I've since learned
that it's mainly a question of building codes. You can install a
commercial range in your house (for less money than a Viking, by the
way), but you'd need (1) a commercial-code exhaust, (2) a sprinkler
system, and (3) minimum distance to walls and ceiling to meet code. It
would end up costing about the same, all tolled. In the end, there
wouldn't be any advantage.

You're not kidding about burning wooden handles. You need flameproof
handles on any cookware you're going to use on a 15000 BTU/hr burner.

Last weekend, I stopped in at Westerman in Worcester. They're a
commercial equipment supplier, and are open Saturday morning, so they
get some business from us yuppie-types. I chatted with one of the sales
folks for a few minutes and learned all sorts of interesting things.

You can just trade that Volvo, sell your Benz, or put the Q45 out to
pasture: commercial-style appliances are positively IN. For a paltry
$5500, you can acquire the *smallest* Traulsen refrigerator. This baby
will fit neatly in a 36"W x 24"D x 78"H opening (standard built-in
size) and give you a bit over 20 cu ft of usable space, including:
automatic ice maker, side-by-side refrig-freezer, vegetable and meat
drawers which open from outside the main compartment, all stainless
construction, tempered glass door on the main compartment, digital temp
readout on refrig and freezer, high-temp alarm, etc. My drooling was
only contained by the price, which is more than a Viking 6-burner range.

And if you really want convenience, what you want is a Hobart WM5-H
dishwasher. Fits in a standard under-counter dishwasher opening, and,
for only $2500, has only one wash cycle. But who cares? The cycle is
over in 2 minutes and 20 seconds, and disinfects your dishes with
180-degree F water. The only catch (aside from price): you need a 240V
50A dedicated circuit to power the water temp booster (rated at 8KW)
which delivers the 180-degree water. If you already happen to have
180-degree water in your kitchen (many restaurants do), you can
dispense with the booster heater (and its special circuit) and get the
WM5 model for only $2150.

How many Traulsens and Hobarts did you say you want?

On the Vikings (which they carry, both commercial and residential), I
learned that the price of the commercial units is less than 1/2 that of
the residential ranges. One reason is that the residential models have
the thermal insulation necessary to meet residential building code. But
the main reason is that they can get people to pay it. Moral of the
story: if you've got the space and are remodeling your kitchen, you can
build to commercial code and install a commercial range for less total cost.