Conference turris::cooks

Cilentro is commonly used in Mexican and Tex-Mex cooking.  It is generally
sold as a fresh herb in the produce section of the market...near the chives
and other herbs.  It is sometimes available in dried form in the spice
section, but that is not that common back east, I think.

Look for round, flat leaves (deep green in color)...the fresh picked cilentro
will not be a "crisp" plant, but flexible almost to the point of being
limp..it should not be too badly bruised.

>   Thanks a bunch.  Another question, which is best, fresh picked or
>    the real "crisp" plant?

the very tender, very green stuff is the best...
    
>    Also, where are you located, in the East, West or Midwest.  I'm
>    in the midwest and that may make a difference in the availability.
    
I be a californian, you may find it difficult to find the fresh herb where
you are....try the local yuppie market - the one that sells "free range
chicken" and other expensive stuff.

				D

    

    Cilentro is the leaves of the plant which, when mature, produces
    the seeds sold as coriander.  You may be able to find it, in the
    Greater Nashua Area, by the dill and mint in the grocery store.
    Failing that, try an oriental market - one where they have a lot
    of fresh veggies (like the East Asian market in Lowell - it's near
    the Library, on the side street that's across from the library).
    Or you can grow it from coriander/cilentro seeds, which you can
    find on many seed racks.
    
    --Louise

    It is also known as Chinese parsley.
    
    

    Its also known as Italian Parsley.  It has a slightly larger and
    curlier leaf than regular parsley and smells a little stronger.
     I know some people who wouldn't even consider using regular parsley
    after they tried cilantro.
    
    You can find it in the fresh produce department of most super markets.
    
    Mary Lou
    

RE: .7
    
    Well, well!  I've learned something new today!
    
    Here in Texas, fresh cilantro is sold in the produce department of
    nearly every grocery store, since it's used in many Tex-Mex dishes. 
    
    Being on an Italian cooking kick for the last year or so, I've seen
    recipes call for Italian parsley again and again.  I've seen
    descriptions of it:  more flat-leaved than regular parsley, etc.,
    but have searched stores in vain for it.  I finally decided it was
    a virtual herb, existing outside Italy only in the minds of those
    who love Italian food.
    
    All this time it's been right under my nose!
    
    Thanks for the information!  I can't wait to buy some next time
    I go to the grocery store!  And maybe even plant some in my herb
    garden!
    
    							Pat

    P.S.  Isn't this conference WONDERFUL????

.-1

I hate to ruin your day but......

I have seen parley lableled Italian Parsley in stores in New England when I have
been looking for cilantro.  IT IS NOT CILANTRO.  It is a wider leaf parsley.  It
does not taste much different to me than normal parsley and it does not taste at
all like cilantro. 

Cilantro = Thai parlsey = Chinese Parsley = Dhaniya = Corriander but it is not
Italian Parsley.

I have never seen an Italian recipe that calls for cilantro, but that doesn't
mean there aren't any.

j

  I wasn't going to bet that "Italian parsely" was simply the parsely
  used in Italy (after all, you can't find "French toast" in France, and
  "Creme anglaise" didn't come from England), but if it is, it's not a
  heck of a lot different from the "normal" parsely with tightly curled
  leaves. It does have broader, flatter leaves (looks like regular
  parsely which was ironed), and a much milder flavor. You can easily
  substitute regular parsely in any recipe which calls for "Italian
  parsely"; just use less. It's absolutely nothing like coriander, and
  can't be substituted by that without probably disastrous results.

By the by, Italian (or flat leaf) parsley is the stuff used for dried parsley 
flakes.  

						     
							- JP

     Just a thought - are you familiar with the taste of cilantro? 
    It definitely falls into the "acquired taste" category. When you
    do find it (and you will; it seems to be all the rage now), be cautious
    with it as a flavoring agent if you aren't familiar with it.
    
     I'm not wild about it, but it's absolutely essential for Mexican
    cookery and recipes.
    
    
                                  Ken
    

    Cilantro (and coriander) tastes like soap if you're allergic
    to it.
    
    					andrew

>     Coriander, on the other hand, is something I like in many dishes
>    (desserts to sausages). Maybe I'm allergic to the plant but not
>    the seeds?
    
Quite possible...many people react to one form of a plant and not to another.

    Coriander seeds don't taste anything like the leaves of the plant
    do.  There is some other spice that appears in Thai food (especially)
    that tastes like soap to some people - some day I may even figure
    out what it is, since I'm one of them!  I LIKE cilantro leaves;
    I grow the stuff in my garden most years, for Mexican and oriental
    cooking (I don't usually save the seeds, though - pull up most of
    it for the leaves before it gets to that stage).  The other "soapy"
    stuff isn't lemon grass, either - wish I knoew what it was!
    
    

    I'm not sure, but I think that the other spice that tastes 'soapy' to
    those that are allergic to it is anise.
    
    

    You mean anise LEAVES??  Could be! - I don't know if I've ever
    knowingly eaten them.  I don't have any problem with anise seeds,
    except that I am not particularly fond of the flavor.

    Not ginger; I am a big ginger lover (fresh, dried and ground, pickled,
    in ice cream...).

    Does anyone know where to purchase cilantro?  I've been looking for it
    for Mexican recipes I've wanted to try...maybe it goes by another name?
    
    Thanks!
    
    -Chris

    I can't help you on where to buy it since I live in Phoenix, but
    it is  also called coriander and chinese parsley.
    
    

Look in the vegetable section of a good supermarket.  It is usually with like
items, such as parsley.  If you can't find it fresh, then look in the spice
section.  I think McCormick or Spice Island carries it.  It is also named
Corriander (though the name usually applies to the dried seeds, which are
used as a spice), Mexican parsley or Chinese parsley.

To spice up picante sauce, try app. 1 heaping tbsp. of finely chopped cilantro
per pint of sauce.  The cilantro really adds some zing to it.

Also, try this.  Chop 2 fresh tomatoes, 1 med. onion, 1 med. sized cucumber
(peeled), some celery and whatever you want, and add to 1 quart of plain
yogurt.  Then add 4-6 tbsp finely chopped cilantro.  Eat as a salad.  Your
tastebuds will thank you profusely!

/Mike

Two sources which nearly always have cilantro:

Idylwilde Farms in Acton

East/West Grocery, Lamplighter Square, Daniel Webster Highway, Nashua

Lots of other pointers in previous notes in this file.

Also pretty easy to grow at this time of year, just plant coriander seeds!

Andy

I can't tell you where to buy it, since I live in Texas.  It's not hard to
find here as you might expect.  However, I have it in my herb garden, and
it's E-A-S-Y to grow.  If you can't find it fresh, I'd suggest sticking a
seed in some dirt, and voila in a few weeks you'll have all you need!! 

							Pat 

    Also, try any Bread and Circus store or Arena Farms (Rt. 2, Concord)
    
    - Susie

    I just yesterday received a shipment of Cilantro and many other
    spices for Southwestern cooking.  I order from two outstanding sources.
    I advise that you get their catalogs before you order, there are
    too many hard to get items in there to go into here.  For a totally
    international source of goods write:
    
    			G. B. Ratto
    			821 Washington St.
    			Oakland, California, 94607
    
    or you can call them at 800-325-3483.  Their goods are far and above
    anything that I have been able to find locally, a bit expensive,
    but worth it.
    
    For a truly unique source of southwestern goods write to:
    
    			Casados Farms.....
    
    Oh darn, I just opened their folder and realized that my secretary
    has used the order form that had their address on it.  I have a
    note in the Chili notes file (2B::CHILI) that has their address,
    I think it is note 60 or 61.  I will get back here and leave another
    reply with the address.  They show no phone number.  I cannot begin
    to describe the aroma of the goods from them, it is the real thing.
    They sell most of the spices etc. needed for good southwestern cooking.
    I insist on calling it southwestern cooking because it is not Mexican
    cooking, most mexicans detest the fact that chili is considered
    a mexican dish, it is not, it is a southwestern USA dish, as are
    many of the other goodies.  Believe me, they are worth ordering.
    
    					Dennis Blanchard
    

	As promised here is the address of Casodos Farms:
    	
     Good news chili lovers of the world!  One can now mail order for
     your ingredients right from the mother lode.  
     
     I recently purchased Jeff Smith's cookbook "Cooking American" and
     in it he has a fine chapter on cooking Chili.  He also gives an
     address of a farm in New Mexico that will ship goods to the needy
     of the world.  I have not ordered yet, but by the looks of the
     flyer that they sent in response to my letter, I will soon.  Prices
     are high, but that is to be expected in that business.  At least
     it is a source.
     
     The carry chiles, corns, flours, spices, nuts and ristras.  Ristras
     are bunches of chiles tied together and dried in a bunch.  They
     sell ristras from 18 to 60 inches in length.
     
     Write for their flyer first:
     
     			CASADOS FARMS
     			P.O. Box 1269
     			San Juan Pueblo, NM, 87566
     
     They take charge card and checks, but I didn't see a telephone
     number in there.  
     
     Good eating to all and a good holiday season, and a hot one!!!!
     
     					Dennis Blanchard
     
     					Merrimack, N.H.
     
     
     

    Here in Dallas, I've had pretty good luck finding most of the
    Southwestern ingredients, although I find myself running all over town
    for them.  But in anticipation of the day I don't live here anymore,
    I've been collecting names and addresses of sources.  I've written
    every firm in the following list, and will update it as I receive
    catalogs, etc.


Valley Distributing Co.
2819 2nd Street NW
Albuquerque
New Mexico  87107
    
The Grand Central Market
317 S. Broadway
Los Angeles
California  90013

Supermercado Gardenas
3922 N. Sheridan
Chicago
Illinois  60613

Casa del Pueblo
1810 Blue Island
Chicago
Illinois  60608

El Mercado
1st Avenue and Lorena
East Los Angeles
California  90063

Texas Wild Game Cooperative
P.O. Box 530
Ingram
Texas  78025
game

California Sunshine Foods, Inc.
144 King Street
San Francisco
California  94107

Josie's Best Tortilla Factory
1130 Agua Fria Street
P.O. Box 5525
Santa Fe, New Mexico  87501
blue corn products

Casados Farms
Box 1269
San Juan Pueblo
New Mexico  87566

Carol Bowman-Williams
Frieda's Finest Produce Specialties
P.O. Box 58488
Los Angeles, CA  90058
specialty produce

Apple Source
Tom Vorbeck
Route 1
Chapin, Illinois  62628
specialty produce

W.G. White, Inc.
333 Henry Street
Stamford
Connecticut  06902
fresh fois gras and poussin

Wild Game, Inc.
1941 West Division
Chicago
Illinois  60622
fresh fois gras and poussin

Sey-Co Products Co.
7651 Densmore Avenue
Van Nuys
California  91406
fresh fois gras and poussin

D'Artagnan, Inc.
399 St. Paul Avenue
Jersey City
New Jersey  07306
fresh fois gras and poussin

Early's Honey Stand
P.O. Box K
Spring Hill
Tennessee 37174
old-fashioned pork sausage

Southern Cross Farms 
P.O. Box 627 
Vidalia
Georgia  30474
Vidalia sweet onions
    

    How about some pointers on growing cilantro?
    The type of soil, How much water, Light, Etc.
    And also judging by the size of coriander seeds it seems like
    they are large plants. Are they? and how much room do they need?
    Thanks! in advance

    
    
    Rep .10
    
      You would grow the same way as parsley. Any soil that will grow
     veggies will grow cilantro. I have also grown it in large <8-10">
     flower pots. Just fill the pot with potting soil and put in about
     6-10 seeds and cover them about 1/4" and water well. After the
     seeds come up thin them so that there is only 4-5 plants in the
     pot and water them when the soil just starts to dry out. It's very
     simple and easy. Right now I have my first crop of cilantro coming
     up in my herb garden and this weekend I'm going to plant a couple
     of more rows and again in about three weeks so I'll have a crop
     until late fall.
    
     -mike
    

    Ditto to .11, one addition.  Cilentro goes to seed if it's in
    direct sun when it's very hot and dry out.  So, keep the plants
    from getting dry, and keep them out of hot afternoon sun during
    mid-summer.  Actually, they'll go to seed sooner or later, and
    so it's good to plant a few new seeds every couple of weeks,
    to keep the supply of young leaves coming.
    
    It's not a huge plant - maybe a foot or 18" tall and about 8"
    to a foot wide?  Mine went to seed before getting as big as that,
    though, and I never planted more.
    
    --Louise

    You can also buy it at The Elegant Farmer in Chelmsford MA. 
    
    I find that dried cilantro doesn't taste like much.  (Like before
    I tried fresh parsely, I thought the only reason you'd add parsely
    to something was for color, since it didn't taste like anything
    either.)  I know that there's a world of difference between any
    spice dried and fresh; but cilantro seems to be one of the spices
    where getting fresh is particularly important to flavor.  In contrast,
    for instance, I prefer fresh basil, but when I use dried, I can
    still TASTE basil.  When I use dried cilantro, I can't seem to taste
    it all all.  I suppose this is better than being allergic to cilantro,
    which I understand tastes like SOAP if you are!  Does anybody else
    feel this way?
    
    Peigi

    For those of you within driving distance of Lowell Mass, there are over
    a dozen places to buy corriander. Just pop into any Asian market (be
    sure to bring your passport and shot record) where you will also find
    varieties of basil (hot and spicy), the small chilies that take your
    breath away, lemon grass, coconut milk, and virtually everything else
    you need for Asian (Thai,Laos,Kampuchia) cooking. There are six markets
    within walking distance of the City Hall in Lowell.  The veggies are
    fresh and the prices are reasonable.

[Actually, my question is "What is coriander?"]

I've seen many references in this conference to the fact that cilantro =
coriander. I know that cilantro is really the leaves of the coriander plant.

If a recipe (for instance, chili) calls for "coriander", do they mean 
ground coriander seeds, or cilantro (coriander leaves)?  Or would using one
or the other be fine, each producing a different result?

Thanks!

--Sharon

    Chances are, if the recipe calls for coriander, it's calling for the
    ground seeds, not the leaves.
    
    No, you can't substitute one for the other -- the taste of the seeds
    is much different than the flavor of the leaves -- 
    
    Look at it this way: cilantro is an herb, and coriander is a spice;
    in general, spices are more pungent and stronger tasting than herbs.
    
    					andrew

    RE: .24
    
    I disagree with the last sentence of the previous reply.  Corriander
    leaves are MUCH more pungent than ground corriander seeds.  

    I think it's what you react to, actually.  A lot of people think that
    the herbal form of coriander tastes like soap (I'm one of them); this
    is a genetic thing, much like being able to roll your tongue.  I can
    sense it in any dish in tiny concentrations... but I like the taste of
    ground coriander, and it doesn't bother me.
    
    So... strength is all in the perception.
    
    --Karen

I'd also disagree with .24

In my experience the "default" meaning of "corriander" varies with the ethnic
origin of the recipe.

For example in most European or Indian recipes it means the seeds. In Chinese
recipes it means the leaves, and in Thai recipes it usually means the whole 
plant (leaves, stems and roots).

/. Ian .\

    Shaw's carries it now.  They have a selection of herbs in the fresh
    veggie section

    I've found that chinese groceries are the best place to buy cilantro. 
    I can occasionally find it in grocery stores like Shaw's, but I could
    always find it (and at a better price) at the Oriental markets.

RE: .23

Since chili is a dish of Mexican origin, and cilantro is a common Mexican
ingredient, I'd wager that the chili recipe is calling for coriander leaves,
not coriander seeds (nor ground coriander).  The quantity asked for might
give you a clue.  If it's 1/4 tsp, they probably mean ground or seeds.
If it's 1/2 cup, they almost certainly are calling for the leaves.

--PSW

I'm sure PSW is right. But there seems to be a trend emerging (or maybe
I'm just noticing): when a recipe calls for the leaves, it will usually
say "cilantro" or "coriander leaves". When it wants the seed, it will
probably just say "coriander", or occasionally "coriander seed". Anyone
else notice this?

�I'm sure PSW is right. But there seems to be a trend emerging (or maybe
�I'm just noticing): when a recipe calls for the leaves, it will usually
�say "cilantro" or "coriander leaves". When it wants the seed, it will
�probably just say "coriander", or occasionally "coriander seed". Anyone
�else notice this?
    
    Emerging trend?  Perhaps it's more noticable since Mexican cuisine
    became fashionable, but I believe the basic premise of cilantro = leaf
    and coriander = seed has been around for a long time.

    RE: .41

    	I tried to grow my own cilantro as well (like parsley, I love it
    	and can't get enough of the stuff!). But I was majorly
    	disappointed because the seeds sprouted and immediately grew up
    	into a finger-like stick plant with coriander seeds on top. No 
    	where in the process was there anything green to eat! :-(  I grew
    	them on a balcony where there wasn't that much sun, but next time
    	I'll try growing them indoors instead where they hopefully won't
    	go to seed immediately again (given even less sun)...

    	-Erik

    	There are two types of coriander seed available, one which bolts
    quickly to produce coriander seed and the other which is slow to bolt
    and produces more leafy vegetation for use as cilantro. If you're
    planting what you get from the grocery store, you're getting the
    former. The latter is available from seed catalogs such as Burpee and
    Park (and many others).

    	I didn't think about that... they were indeed store seeds.

    	Wow, you have no idea how good that makes me feel! 

    	And here I was worried that I had developed a terribly bad
    	brown thumb over the year... :-)

    	Thanks!

    	-Erik
                                 

    ...of course, having a supply of fresh coriander seed isn't exactly a
    *bad* thing!
    
    Edd

    Last week in Sainsbury's (Savacenter) I spotted a jar of Barts
    Coriander leaves. The jar was in a strange place: it was in a shelf
    above the frozen fish section! What intrigued me about this jar was the
    coriander was not dried, but preserved in Soya oil.
    
    Last night I tried it out in some Salsa. This stuff is amazing. Open
    the bottle and you smell coriander! The leaves look insepid (yukky
    light green, rather than coriander's forest green) but you don't notice
    this when added to a dish and the colour is more than compensated by the
    flavour: Bags and bags of coriander.
    
    The only downer was the bottle said keep refridgerated and use within 6
    weeks. I'm a bit suspicious of the use within 6 weeks, a there's an
    aweful lot to use i.e. the bottle's about 2" (50mm) high and an inch
    (25mm) in diameter, but a little goes a long way. I'' see what happens
    in 8 weeks time.
    
    Angus

I hate Cilantro... whenever I see a recipe that calls for cilantro, I
won't use the recipe.  However, I don't mind corriander.  Since they
are the same (sort of), would it be an acceptable substitute?  I don't
think they taste at all similar though.

Karen

�                         -< Substitutes for cilantro? >-
    
    Parsley.  It won't give the same flavor, but it will give the same
    color and texture.  It is often recommended as a substitute with the
    caveat of don't expect it to taste the same.
    
    
�I hate Cilantro... whenever I see a recipe that calls for cilantro, I
�won't use the recipe.  However, I don't mind corriander.  Since they
�are the same (sort of), would it be an acceptable substitute?  
    
    Coriander (the seed) will give it a citrusy flavor and will not be
    close in either color or texture (brown seed vs. green leaf).

RE: .52

Cilantro is the leaves of the plant.  Coriander is the ground-up seed.  
They have quite different flavors and are not suitable substitutes for each 
other.

--PSW

    Which is the one that, for some people, tastes like soap?
    
    					andrew

re: .55

>    Which is the one that, for some people, tastes like soap?
    
The leaves.

-Hal

    Re .54
    
    In the UK, the leaves are known as 'Coriander' although I have seen it
    labelled 'Cilantro' here on one occasion.
    
    We also have Coriander Seeds and Ground Coriander (ground-up seed) 
    
    Jackie

    I can't imagine life as we know it without cilantro. Salsa without at
    least a 1/2 cup of the stuff is nothing more than a bowl of smashed
    vegetables. ;^)
    
    A friend offered me some from his garden as it was about to bolt to
    seed. He put about a gallon of the stuff in a plastic bag, then
    proceeded to forget it in his closed car on that hot August day.
    At 5:00 I walked over to his car to claim my bounty. No sooner had
    he opened the door than we both jumped back in horror. WOW! That stuff
    does NOT take kindly to 8 hours of heat! Stink-o!!!
    
    Edd