Conference turris::cooks

    I cooked one once - maybe twice?  Anyhow, I'm assuming it's
    a domestic duck you are cooking, right?  Game birds have very
    little fat on them, and often need to be larded or draped
    with bacon.  Domestic ducks are a totally different story.
    They seem to be half fat!  Try to get as much fat off of
    the bird as you can before you cook it.  Pull it out from
    between the skin and the meat, and from inside the cavety.
    Also, cut off some of the extra skin - it'll cook down into
    more fat.  Pierce the skin while the duck is cooking to let
    the fat run out, or you'll end up with indigestion from eating
    too much grease.
    
    I'd suggest not stuffing the bird, since stuffing is like a
    sponge.  Cook some wild rice type stuff separately.
    
    As for the actual timing, I know that the basic cookbooks
    (Joy et al) have good recipes on that.  Probably have recipes
    for orange sauce too.
    
    --Louise

The Duck:
I've had lots of success cooking my ducks on a Webber BBQ grill.  I place a 
drip pan in the middle and the coal on either side.  I also put chunks of 
hickory wood that have been soaked in water to give it a bit of smoky flavor.
I don't prick the duck skin, or stuff the duck, but I do remove the excess fat 
from the cavity, and cut off the wings at the second joint.  I then bring the 
wings behind the back and cover them with the neck skin, tucking in the 
excess.  One turkey lacing skewer will hold this in place.  I place the 
duck(s) on a rack on the grill.  Cook for 20 minutes/lb, adding coals and 
hickory as needed.  The ducks I've been finding lately have pop up timers in 
them, and come out exactly medium.  (Unlike chicken, don't cook duck well done 
till the bones are loose, the meat should be pink.)  The BBQ flavors the duck, 
and the high heat melts away most of the fat under the skin, which in turn 
bastes the meat for you.

The sauce:
Chop up the neck, gizzard, and wing tips, and brown them in a bit of duck fat.
Also add a small yellow onion, halved, unpeeled, a chopped, unpeeled carrot, 
and 2 cloves of garlic, unpeeled.  When the meat is somewhat brown, add water 
to cover and simmer for a couple of hours.  Pour the broth through a sieve 
into another pan.  Let it cool enough so you won't break a glass, and pour it 
into a glass.  Use your turkey baster to get the broth out and leave the 
grease.  Put the broth back in the pan and heat to reduce to about a cup.  Add 
the juice of 3 oranges, the blanched jullienned zest of 2 oranges, and a 
tablespoon of brown sugar.  Add 1/2 cup of Grand Marnier, and simmer.  The 
sauce should not require thickening, but do so if you prefer.  Serve in a 
gravy boat.

    
    	I'm not an expert on this subject but I was told that chinese
    (who cook lots of duck) will hang up the duck for a day or so.
    This is suppose to allow some of the fat to roll off. I have noticed
    in chinese markets that sell fresh duck, that they hang the duck
    in the windows.
    
    

	I had heard that this caused the skin to dry somewhat which 
	makes for crispier skin on your Peking Duck?  

						     
							- JP

    RE last
    
    It does dry it out, but I don't eat the skin.  I cooked a duck for
    Thanksgiving and it turned out very good.  I pulled all the visible 
    fat off and pricked the skin.  Most of the greese ended up in the
    pan.
    
    Mark

Re: .4

Actually Peking duck is a little more complicated.  It involves a
careful sealing of the duck and then inserting a needle, like the ones
used to blow up basketballs, between the skin and the body.  You then pump
air in until the skin lifts from the body and then cook it like that.

Sounds kinky to me...

Oscar

For Peking Duck, after inflating the skin, you baste it with a honey and
malt vinegar solution and let it dry before roasting.  The idea is to make
the skin brown and very crispy.

--PSW

    
    My wife and I have made Peking duck several times with great success.
    I used a glass tube and a Zefal bicycle pump to separate the skin
    from the fat. We always made the dish during a cool, dry and breezy
    night. Once tried an Air Conditioner as a substitute, but that did
    not do the job. If the duck is dried right, the fat all cooks out
    leaving the skin super tasty and crackling crisp. There is no need
    to pierce the skin. The flavor of a good home made Peking duck are
    difficult to describe. Needless to say, the biggest wine you have
    is beautifully complemented. Chateau LaTour 1967 and David Bruce
    Zinfandel 1974 were two of my favorites with the duck.
    

Here is a recipe that I found for Sweet and Sour Duck.  I haven't 
tried it yet, but it sounds good.

                  Sweet and Sour Duck

one 5-lb duck
1 cup honey
1 tablespoon soy sauce
1 tablespoon sherry

1.  Preheat oven to 425 F.

2.  Prick the duck all over with a carving fork and rub well with 
salt.  Place the duck on a rack in a roasting pan on the middle 
shelf of the oven.  Roast it for 30 minutes.

3.  Reduce the heat to 375 F, and turn the duck.  Mix the honey, 
soy sauce and sherry, and spread some over the duck.  Continue 
roasting for 2 1/2 hours, turning the duck frequently and basting 
with the rest of the sauce.

4.  Transfer the duck to a serving dish.  Surround it with 
deep-fried Chinese egg noodles, pineapple rings, and a few sprigs 
of parsley.  Garnish with a few pineapple pieces and serve.

    Help.........
     
    A hunter friend of mine has just given me some "wild" duck breasts
    filleted and cleaned(how about that)!   Any body out there have
    any ideas on preparing them?  Should I marinate before cooking
    have been told of gaminess of meat.
    
    All recipes and suggestions welcome......
    
    I'll try anything "once", and will report back on one chosen
    
    Thanks in advance !!!!!!
    
    "Hungry" Al
    

    When I worked in a French Restaurant, one of the most popular dishes
    was roast duck with bearnaise sauce.
    
    The restaurant, by the way, was the Gaslight, which lived from 1975
    to 1980 in Portland, Maine. If anybody has been there, I would love
    to hear from you. It was an extraordinary place to work and dine
    at. 

I have never made just the breast of duck, but I've done lots of whole ones.  
If presented with your situation, I'd do a sautee.  Duck, unlike chicken and 
turkey, is best when eaten medium to rare.  It should be at most PINK when 
eaten, not gray!  Also, the gaminess can be subdued by the use of a tart fruit 
sauce.

Here is a suggestion:

Oil a hot skillet and sautee one chopped shallot until it softens.  Split the 
breast and dry each half, pressing it slightly to flatten.  Flour the halves
and sautee until done according to the fist test(*). Remove the breast halves 
to a warmed platter.  Add 2 tablespoons of cognac to the pan, ignite and burn 
off the alcohol.  Add the juice of one orange and 1/2 lemon.  Reduce by half 
and add 1 tablespoon tart marmalade (like Dundee).  Stir 'till the marmalade 
melts and sauce the breast halves.  For a real fancy presentation, the breast 
halves can be sliced on a bias, and arranged to show the not-gray interior.

(*)The fist test is one used for beef steaks.  You poke the cooking meat with 
your finger, then poke the fleshy area on the back of your hand between your 
thumb and forefinger.  An unclenched hand feels like rare meat; lightly 
clenched, medium; tightly clenched, well.

						     
							- JP

  Wild duck has not only a strong flavor, but tougher meat than
  commercially raised ducks. You probably mean both of these when you
  describe it as "gamey". Also, it's probably an adult duck, not a
  duckling. What all this means, sadly, is that the best way to prepare
  it might be in a stew-like dish. But, if you decide to roast it (I
  know I would probably try that), you can try a marinade of light soy
  (less salt than dark), dry sherry, honey, orange and lemon zest,
  garlic (lots) and Grand Marnier. If you dare, add some Adolph's meat
  tenderizer, but then make real sure to use light soy, or you'll have
  way too much salt. The proportions of the ingredients aren't critical
  (almost any chinese cookbook will have essentially this marinade).

  Poke the breasts many times with a fork, and marinade for between 3
  and six hours. Then grill until medium rare.

  Serve with an old burgundy, and watch out for the shot pellets!

    Try    1 small/med jar current jelly
           2 oranges (grate rind and squeeze out juice)
           1 tsp mustard
    
    Mix ubove together in sause pan and heat on stove. Pour over duck
    after cooked. (usually bake at 350--time depends on size of duck)
    Usually serve on rice.
    
    
    
    
    

    		It's been a while this topic has been active, so
    		here is my problem:
    
    		I've been looking forward to making Peking Duck.
    
    		There has been many suggestions on the main subject
   		-- the duck. There the problem seems to be, how to make
    		it crisp. I'm gonna try scalding over wok and see what
    		happens.
    
    		But what worries me is how to make those *very* thin
    		pancakes. 
    
    		I know that they are made from wheat an water, paked
    		in wok and then softened in a steamer, but does 
    		someone have real experience on this?
    
    		Ah, one more question about the duck. It looks like
    		I can get hold on deep frosen duck only. Does that make
    		things very much different?

    
    		-Pasi-
    

    Pasi -
    
    I checked my Chinese cookbook (thanks to the pointers about Jessica's
    Biscuit elsewhere in this file!) and it seems the crispness is obtained
    by first marinating the Duck 8 to 10 hours, steaming it (2 and a
    half hours for a 4 1/2 - 5 pound duck), letting it airdry for several
    hours, then deep-fry in a wok for 30 minutes turning twice.  This
    partucular recipe "Szechwan Crisp Spiced Duck" said if duck is frozen,
    to allow 12 hours to thaw.  The "Peking Duck" recipe calls for the
    duck to be scalded in hot water with honey, ginger, wine and vinegar
    for two minutes, then hang in a cool, airy place for 8 hours or
    more, then roast it.  
    
    The Mandarin pancake recipe says to cook them in an ungreased frying
    pan until clear and slightly puffed.  Keep warm until all are cooked,
    then steam them over medium heat for 3 minutes, or reheat in foil
    10 minutes at 275.
    
    Do you have recipes, or were you asking about the techniques?  Let
    me know, and I'll type in the details/recipes.
    
    Terry

    Here's an easy way of doing "Peking" style duck.  The basic sauce
    used for the marinade can be saved in the freezer and used over
    and over again.  It also works very well for marinating chicken
    wings.  To make the sauce:
    
    		1/4 cup oil
    		2/3 cup sugar
    		3 dried tangerine peels
    		3 star anise
    		6 large garlic cloves, mashed
    		2 cups soy sauce
    		4 cups water
           	You can also experiment with adding chunks
           	of ginger, or the stems from Chinese dried mushrooms.
               
           In a casserole big enough to contain the duck, heat
           the oil and sugar enough to carmelize it slightly,
           then add the rest of the ingredients and bring
           to a boil.
           
       To cook the duck:
           
           Remove the extra lumps of fat from inside the cavity
           of the duck.  Set the heart, kidney, etc. aside
           for the cat.  
           
           Place the duck in the marinade and bring it to a
           second boil.  Then turn it off and let it sit for half
           an hour.  Turn the duck over, bring it to a boil
           again, turn it off and let it sit for another half
           hour or so. 
           
           Then take the duck out of the marinade, drain the
           excess back into the casserole and place the duck on a
           rack in a small roasting pan.  
           
           Cook it in a slow oven @ 300-325 degrees for about
           half an hour per pound. You don't want the oven too
           hot, because the duck has already been partially
           cooked by the marinade and the skin has a tendency to
           get too crispy at hotter temperatures. 
           
     Don't forget to save the sauce to be used again.
                    

     I'd like to try and grille a duck one weekend soon. Can anyone
    here help me ? Please assume you're dealing with an idiot here.

But any covered grill would do.

You can marinate the duck if you want, but avoid sugar based marinades as 
they caramelize too easily.  Prick the skin all over so that the fat can be 
released.  Then place the duck on a grill over a drip pan.  In a weber grill,
you can place the drip pan on the charcoal rack, with charcoal on each side 
of it.  Then place the duck above on the cooking grill.  Put a bit of water 
in the drip pan to avoid fires.  You shouldn't put any coals under the duck,
but off to the side, so the heat source is indirect.  This can be done on 
most large gas grills with 2 burners, too.  Just put the duck on one side, and
turn on the gas on the other side.  You can add wood chips, hickory bark, or
green apple wood to the coals to give a smoky flavor to the duck.  

I find the best results come from cooking it breast up.  There is so much fat
that drying out is not a problem.  As for how long to cook it, it's up to you.
DON'T rely on any pop up timers.  Use a meat thermometer.  I prefer duck medium
to rare, but it will stay moist and tender all the way up to the "poultry" 
reading on my meat thermometer (well done).  

If you want to baste it with a sugar sauce, do that in the last half hour, or 
when it's about 5-10 degrees from being done.  You won't really be able to judge
how long it takes until you have tried it once.

By the way, on a charcoal grill, you do have to use about 20-25 coals for 
starters, let them get white, then add a couple of coals every 20-30 minutes.

Duck on a grill comes out very crispy, without the layer of fat attached to the
skin.  The fat cooks out, and in, too, leaving the meat moist.

Use a "disposable" aluminum cake pan for the drip pan.  When done, add lots of 
bird seed to the fat, and put it out for the birds.

    A sauce I used once was a Apricot-Cognac Sauce. My mother-in-law had
    made some Apricot-Cognac preserves for us and I added a little more 
    cognac to make it thinner. Great flavor. Definitely baste toward the 
    end so the fats don't get "sealed" in.  
    
    You could actually do this with any preserve or conserve, thinned with
    either cognac, triple sec, brandy, Grand Manier (sp?), Cointreau, etc.

I think that grilling is the best way to do a whole duck.  It gets rid of 
the fat and really crisps the skin. 

I cook it the same way JP does (.1), and my recommendation for timing is that 
it will take less time than any of the books say.  If you've never grilled 
beyond the hamburger & steaks, try whole chickens and turkeys as well.  Any 
covered grill (electric or charcoal) will do.

    Mom oftens makes duck at Christmas.  It's so tasty on its own that I
    never could understand the need for "a l'orange" or other glaze.  Even
    though I say I haven't eaten meat in 10 yrs., I've been known to sneak
    into the kitchen for a bite or two before the bird gets carved.
    
    We always saved the fat in a jar in the fridge and used it for making
    french fries.  Very tasty!  And I believe duck fat is (one of) the most
    polyunsaturated of animal fats.
    
    Nancy

  Duck fat a polyunsaturated animal fat? It might not be as bad as lamb
  fat (I don't really know), but let's keep it in perspective: it ain't
  good for you. It's right up there on the list of things Americans
  could do with less of.

  But that crispy duck skin tastes soooooo good.

      I cooked my duck this weekend using the advice given here and
    it turned out very well although I think I slightly overcooked it.
    Next time it will be even better! Thanks for the help.

    How long did it take to grill it?  I plan to try it too.
    Did you start with a frozen bird?

     Re. -1
    
     Just got around to reading your note. I started out with a frozen
    bird that I thawed completely. Total grill time if I remember correctly
    was about 3 hours. I should have cooked it much less because when-
    ever I order duck at a restaurant it's somewhat rare. I would guess
    about an hour and a half to two hours would be sufficient. Howver
    long you cook it use the advice given by the people who responded
    to the original note it's pretty sound. It might atke me another
    bird or two to get it right myself.

    
    I got orders from the in-laws that they wanted duck for Thanksgiving.  
    They didn't get it for Thanksgiving--you just can't give in to every
    whim, they'd never leave--but I did buy a couple of ducks to serve
    during their visit.  Since we were going to have the ducks after the 
    main Thanksgiving meal, roasting was out.  (Who wants all that roast
    poultry?)  I found the following recipe in the Silver Palate New Basics 
    Cookbook.  It would probably work as well for wild duck as it did for 
    domestic duckling.  It's easy and attractive, and if not quite as 
    breath-taking as turkey en brioche, probably a good deal more
    palatable.  
    
    Stewed Duckling w/Winter Fruit. 
    
    4 cups dry red wine 
    1 cup beef broth 
    3 ducks, each cut into six pieces  (I skinned mine as well)
    3 lbs sweet potatoes 
    12 oz. dried figs 
    12 oz. dried apricots 
    1/2 tart apply, cut into thin slices 
    1/2 pear, cut into thin slices 
    8 cloves garlic 
    1/4 cup cassis 
    2 TBS dark brown sugar 
    2 TBS butter 
    
    Preheat oven to 350.
    
    Peel the sweet potatoes and, using a melon baller, cut the potatoes
    into balls.  (This is an unnecessarily tedious process.  They do,
    however, look nice.)  You should have 4 cups.  Par-boil them for five
    minutes, drain, and set aside.  
    
    Bring 3 cups of the wine to a boil, remove from heat and add the figs. 
    
    In an oven-proof casserole, brown the duck in the  butter.  (If you
    don't skin the duck, drain the fat periodically as the pieces brown.) 
    Set the browned pieces aside. Deglaze the pan with the remaining wine,
    add the remaining ingredients--including the duck and the sweet
    potatoes-- and bring to a boil.  Cover and bake at 350 for an hour.  
    
    Serve the duck with the fruit on side and pour a some of the cooking
    liquid over each serving.  
    
    Mike.   
    

        Here is a recipe out of our local weekend paper from the well known
    "Village Inn", in the Belgrade Lake region. They are noted for their roast
    duck and serve thousands a year plus ship them across the country. This
    recipe calls for Raspberry Sauce but at the Inn you have your choice of
    13 different sauces.
    
    
                    " Roast Duckling a la Village Inn "
    
    
1 4lb. frozen duckling 
1 large seedless orange, cut in half
Salt
Bread or rice stuffing
Raspberry Sauce (see below)
    
            Defrost duckling. Place on a rack in a roasting pan. Squeeze
    half of the orange over the duckling and put the other half in the
    cavity. Sprinkle with salt. Place duckling in a 180 degree oven for 12
    hours. Remove from oven. Pour off fat and reserve. (It will separate
    into two parts - a white lard which can be used for frying and gelatin
    which makes an excellent soup base.) 
            Refrigerate duckling for at least 24 hours. When ready to
    serve, remove from refrigerator and cut in half. Fill the cavities with
    your favorite stuffing. Place in a shallow pan, stuffing down. Roast in
    a preheated 450 degree oven for 20 minutes or until crispy. Serve at
    once with Raspberry Sauce. Serves 2.
    
             
                           " Raspberry Sauce "
    
    1 16 oz. package of frozen raspberries, defrosted
    3/4 cup ofwater
    1/4 cup port wine
    1/4 tsp lemon juice
    1/8 tsp ground cinnamon
    1/4 cup cornstarch
    1/4 cup water
    
    
                  Put defrosted berries in a saucepan. Add 3/4 cup water,
    wine, lemon juice, and cinnamon. Cook until boiling. Reduce heat. Blend
    cornstarch with water. add to berry mixture. Cook on low heat until
    thickened. Chill. Makes about 1 1/2 cups.
    
    
    
    
    

    I've cooked duck in a variety of ways and styles. One of my favourites,
    but which I've yet to master, is the famed Cantonese roast duck. The
    problem is the honey glazing has this tendancy to turn to carbon (even
    with a whole host of precautions) before the duck is cooked.
    
    Lately I've discarded all the fancy recipes (with all their various
    stuffings and surface seasonings and bastes) in favour of a dead simple 
    method. I simply wash the duck, then pat it dry, then rub salt and
    pepper onto its outsides and insides. I prick it all over, with a sharp 
    knife, very thoroughly. It then goes into the fan oven, uncovered and  
    untrussed. For the first half of the cooking time its on its front, the 
    second half on its back so as to get a crispy skin on the breast.
    
    I also do not overcook the duck; this seems to be a favourite
    preoccupation of the English. I aim for a duck that is just done or
    slightly underdone. The result is a very tasty duck, that's moist and
    reasonably free of fat.
    
    For a sauce, I may throw together an orange sauce. However, I find orange
    sauce a bit fussy, and I find that a tart apple sauce (made with 
    cooking apples, lemon juice, sugar, touch of butter and hint of cloves) 
    makes a really super accompaniment to duck and is dead easy to make. An 
    apricot sauce (made from fresh or dried apricots) would also go down well.
    
    For a really unusual sauce: Soy sauce (say 3-4 Tbs) mixed with a finely 
    chopped clove of garlic. Its more of a dip and is super when the duck is
    cold. My young son (2.25 years) loves it and the apple sauce.
    
    The above sauces are great with geese.
    
    Angus

    Serenity,
    
    An alternative sauce would be cherry...sure I have a recipe at
    home which I will check for and post here.
    
    Jackie

    Has anyone tried those new chicken cooking racks that hold the chicken
    upright (well, upside down from the chicken's perspective) with a duck? 
    My mother has used them to great success with chicken and it just
    struck me that that would be a great way to avoid the well-known "fat
    problem" with ducks.
    
    Where would one buy those racks?
    
    D! who loves duck!
    

    I use the rack that came in my big roasting pan for roasting duck (and
    goose for that matter).  It works great.  I would think you'd be able
    to pick one up in any kitchen gadget store (e.g. Lechter's).

I still think that the best method for duck is in a webber kettle grill.  It
gets hot enough in the beginning that most all the fat is cooked out. 
Especially if you prick the skin all over with a fork.  I sometimes mix birdseed
in with the rendered duck fat and hang it out for the birds in the dead of
winter.  They love it, too.

�I still think that the best method for duck is in a webber kettle grill.  
    
    I tried cooking duck on the grill once.  I won't ever do it again.  The
    grease flare ups were out of control.

	To me the best way to cook the ducks availible here in the
	USA is to cut them up and do the pieces seperately. I remove
	the legs, breasts, and first two wing segments. The rest goes
	into making stock after removing most of the fat. With the
	Peking ducks <the species not the Chinese recipe> there is
	just too much fat and by the time the legs are done the breast
	is overdone. By doing the pieces seperately you can remove
	the vast majority of the fat first and also cook each piece
	to the correct doneness. I also remove all the skin and fat 
	from the breasts before cooking.

	This time of the year fresh duck is availible so I normally
	buy 8-10 and butcher them. Freezing the pieces so when I want
	duck I just brag a package. 

	Here's my favorite duck dinner,


	Place the legs in a roasting pan and roast them @400f for
	30min. Remove from the oven and spread a thin coat of dijon
	mustard on the top of the legs. Then sprinkle a thin coat of
	bread crumbs over the legs. Return to the oven and continue 
	roasting for 60 min.

	About 10min before the legs are done take a frying pan and 
	film the bottom with olive oil. Heat the pan until it's very
	hot and add the breasts. Also add 2TBsp of finely minced onion 
	or shallots to the pan. Cook each side for about 4 min. they
	should be cooked to medium. Remove the breasts and deglaze the
	pan with 1/4Cup of cognac. Stir and reduce the until the liquid
	is almost gone. Then add 1Cup of your homemade duck stock and
	2TBsp of red currant jelly or if you like orange marmalade.
	Reduce the sauce by 1/3 and thicken with some cornstarch and
	water. 

	To serve cut the breasts in slices and the legs in half so
	everyone gets some of both. Serve with scalloped potatoes
	and steamed green veggie. I would serve a nice red wine
	like a cabernet or a pinot noir with the duck.


	-mike

re: .35

I totally agree about cooking the duck parts separately.  And the duck
carcass makes absolutely wonderful stock!  I usually remove the breasts
without their bones (what the French call a magret, I think).  I did
try removing the skin once...never again!  Duck skin is really hard
to remove!

One of my favorite things to do with the breasts is make the Duck Breast
With Port Wine Sauce from Paula Wolfert's "Cooking of Southwest France".
If anyone's interested enough to nag me periodically until I remember to
type it in, go right ahead!

I also really like to use the legs in gumbo.  Duck meat seems to go 
really well in a gumbo.

-Hal

    Weber grills (or any kettle-type grill, I guess) are great for cooking
    things like chickens, duck etc.  They cook fast and retain a lot of
    juices.
    
    The key to avoiding grease flare ups is to put a foil pan directly
    under the bird to catch the grease, and then putting the charoal around
    the outside of the pan.
    
    If it's a big bird, you may have to add more coals once and a while.

Lisa's got the answer...  I always use a drip pan.  That's how I manage to save
the fat for the birds.  I can imagine doing a duck directly over the coals! 
Yikes!  They must have seen the flames for miles.

Another vote for the drip pan when grilling; it's indispensible when
roasting whole birds. It not only almost completely eliminates
flare-ups, but it also cooks the bird more evenly (you don't have an
intense heat source right under the bird).

Has anyone tried braised duck? Or roasting in a "dutch oven"? We
decided to do our Thanksgiving turkey this year in a dutch oven (we
have a large covered pot with a roasting rack). We put it in at 425F
uncovered for 20 minutes, and then covered it and reduced the heat to
350F (it was seasoned, but unstuffed).

I didn't know exactly how long it would take, so since normal roasting
time would've been more than 3.5 hours, I thought it might take a
little longer, and decided to check it at 3 hours (i.e., one hour
before). Well, at 3 hours, it was quite a bit overdone. The breast meat
was a lot overdone, but, amazingly, it wasn't dried out. And the
flavors of the seasonings had completely permeated the bird. Most
amazing of all, the skin was crispy, and there was an enormous amount
of liquid which made a fabulous gravy.

I definitely plan to try this again, but figure much less time. And I'm
very curious to see how it might do a duck, which has the problem of
dry breast meat.

Has anyone tried Julia Child's method of steaming it first to draw off
the fat, and then roasting to crisp the skin?

re : .39

>Has anyone tried braised duck? 

Yes, although it's been a long time and I don't remember the particulars.
Braising's another good thing to do with the legs and thighs for us
"separatists". :-)

-Hal

        I use the rack that came in my big roasting pan for roasting duck (and
        goose for that matter).  It works great.  I would think you'd be able
        to pick one up in any kitchen gadget store (e.g. Lechter's).
    
    I don't mean the kind of rack that sits in the bottom of a standard a
    roasting pan.  The device I'm talking about holds the chicken
    upright...you insert the rack in to the neck cavity...and it holds the
    chicken off the pan, as if it were standing on its head (if it had one)
    allowing all the grease from both sides (as opposed to just one, as
    with normal roasting) to run off, and all the skin to get equally
    brown.
    
    D!

    Re: .35
    >>	Place the legs in a roasting pan and roast them @400f for
    >>	30min. Remove from the oven and spread a thin coat of dijon
    >>	mustard on the top of the legs. Then sprinkle a thin coat of
    >>	bread crumbs over the legs. Return to the oven and continue 
    >>	roasting for 60 min.
                     ^^^^^^
    
    This recipe sounds great and easy enough that I'll give it a try.  I
    love duck, but have always been afraid to cook one.  Now the
    question....
    does the above mean 60 minutes total or 60 minutes additional?
    
    Thanks.	
    

�    I don't mean the kind of rack that sits in the bottom of a standard a
�    roasting pan.  The device I'm talking about holds the chicken
�    upright...you insert the rack in to the neck cavity...and it holds the
�    chicken off the pan, as if it were standing on its head (if it had one)
�    allowing all the grease from both sides (as opposed to just one, as
�    with normal roasting) to run off, and all the skin to get equally
�    brown.
    
    Sorry, that wasn't clear.  However I'll stand by what I said.  I've had
    very good luck using the rack that sits in the bottom of a standard
    roasting pan.  It is a good idea to remove some of the grease from the
    bottom of the pan as it cooks so that the duck or goose isn't swimming
    in it.  I get good browning on all sides with this rack.
    
    And the recommendation for where to get the kind of rack you are
    looking for is the same as the kind of rack I was thinking you were
    looking for.

	Rep .42

>>>    does the above mean 60 minutes total or 60 minutes additional?

	Ooops, that should be an additional 60min. So the total time
	is 90min. Also since ovens vary alot you might want to check
	at say 45min. The legs should be crisp but not carbonized. ;-)


	Rep .35  Hal

>>> I usually remove the breasts
without their bones (what the French call a magret, I think).  I did
try removing the skin once...never again!  Duck skin is really hard
to remove!


	The skin isn't that hard to remove. The method I use is to 
	start cartilage end of the breast and slide your finger 
	between the skin and the breast working towards the wish
	bone. You'll also need a sharp knife once in awhile to 
	help. Once the skin is off about 2/3 you can grab it and 
	just pull it towards the wishbone. Yes, the removed breast
	is called magret in France.



	-mike

re: .44

>	The skin isn't that hard to remove. The method I use is to 
>	start cartilage end of the breast and slide your finger 
>	between the skin and the breast working towards the wish
>	bone. You'll also need a sharp knife once in awhile to 
>	help. Once the skin is off about 2/3 you can grab it and 
>	just pull it towards the wishbone. 

Mike:

	Hmmm, where are you located geographically?  Maybe we get
	a different variety of duck here in Baltimore Maryland USA.

-Hal

	Rep .45  Hal

>>>
	Hmmm, where are you located geographically?  Maybe we get
	a different variety of duck here in Baltimore Maryland USA.


	I'm located in good old Massachusetts. The variety of duck
	we see around here is the Peking. Yes, it is much harder
	to remove the skin from a duck than say a chicken or turkey
	but if you use the method I suggested you might have better
	luck. I took me more than a few tries to get it right but
	now I can reduce an entire duck into parts in less than 10
	minutes. That includes trimming the excess fat from the legs,
	skinning and removing the breast, seperating the wing pieces,
	and skinning and chopping the carcass for the stockpot. So
	you just have to practice, pratice, pratice.  ;-)


	-mike

	

    D!, you can get those vertical chicken roasters at most kitchen gadget 
    stores, or from catalogs (they're usually a lot less expensive in the 
    stores around here (NH)).
    
    It might be a good idea to use this, but duck has a lot more fat than 
    chicken, so I'd place the entire rack inside another large pan to catch
    the fat that will undoubtedly spill over the tiny pan on the vertical
    roaster.
    
    I love duck, but I've never cooked it myself.  Reading this is making
    me hungry - and reminiscent.  The most romantic thing any man has ever
    done for me was to cook a New Year's Eve dinner of roast duck with
    elderberry sauce, wild rice with currants, and steamed broccoli.  I
    made chocolate covered strawberries for dessert.  It was really a
    perfect dinner!
    
    
    Susan

    This technique is from Barbara Kafka's book, _Microwave_Gourmet_:
    
    "Because fat cooks more quickly than protein in the microwave oven, the
    excess fat under the duck skin is rendered, leaving the meat tender,
    not dried out.  The broth also helps protect the meat and keep it
    moist.  Duck's rich taste welcomes spicy flavors and rich, slightly
    acid sauces. [Examples:  blackberry sauce, cranberry sauce, cherry
    sauce.]"
    
    1 duck, cut into serving pieces, legs, thighs, and breasts cut in half
      across the bone, wing tips removed and reserved for broth
    
    1 to 1 1/4 cups duck broth or chicken broth
    
    1.  Remove any loose fat.  Prick the skin of each piece several times
    with a fork.
    
    2.  Heat the broiler of a conventional oven.  Move rack to position
    closest to heat souce.
    
    3.  Put duck, skin side up, in a 12"x18"x2" disk.  Add enough broth to
    cover meat and bone; leave skin and fat about the liquid.  Cover
    loosely with paper towel.  Cook in the microwave oven at 100% for 17
    minutes.
    
    4.  Remove from oven.  Remove duck from dish and place on a broiler
    pan.  Slash fat and skin crosshatch-fashion.  Broil for 6 to 8 minutes,
    until browned and crisp.

>The device I'm talking about holds the chicken
>    upright...you insert the rack in to the neck cavity...and it holds the
>    chicken off the pan, as if it were standing on its head (if it had one)

 All the vertical racks I've seen go into the large hole on a bird.
The neck hole is the smaller hole of the two. It would seem that fat
drainage would not be as good if the bird were standing on its head
(as it were.)

 The Doctah

    How about Peking duck?  I had it in Paris with pancakes a while ago..
    can someone enlighten me on the preparation and service.. it was
    wonderful.
    
    thanks

    Peking duck is mentioned in .4,.6,.7,.8,.10,.11,.17,.35,.46  :-)
    
    ed

    Thre Frugal Gourmet has a couple of recipes for Peking Duck, one is a
    bit easier than the other (one involves inflating the skin with a
    bicycle tire pump).  I believe the recipes are in his first book and in
    Three Ancient Cuisines.

     Could someone please enter here a full recipe for Pecking duck?

     Thanks,

     Juan-Carlos

  The following is from "The Joy of Wokking" by Martin Yan, and is word-for-
  word from the book.  I have included Martin's comments as they appear in the
  text.  My comments are in square [] brackets.  I do not have "The Yan Can
  Cook Book" where the recepie for the Mandarin pancakes is located.  I'd like
  to have the book, so when I get a copy, I'll enter the recepie.

  Steve


                                Peking Duck

  Peking Duck is probably one of the best known dishes in Chinese banquets in
  North America.  Its reputation rests on the combination of natural flavor,
  the glazed, crackling skin, and the juicy, tender meat.  At first glance, it
  appears complicated and troublesome to prepare this sensational century-old
  dish.  In reality, it is quite simple.


  1 duck (with neck intact), about 5 pounds (2250 g)
  2 tablespoons (30 ml) red wine vinegar
  3 tablespoons (45 ml) honey or malt sugar
  1 cup (250 ml) boiling water
  14 - 16 Mandarin pancakes, steamed
  1/2 cucumber, peeled and shredded
  6 - 8 stalks green onion, shredded

  Sauce:
  2 tablespoons (30 ml) hoisin sauce
  1 1/2 teaspoons (7 ml) sugar
  1 teaspoon (5 ml) sesame oil


  1.  To prepare duck:

  Cut off wing tips, wash and pat entire duck dry.  Remove and discard any ex-
  cess visible fat around tail cavity.  Close tail cavity tightly with a metal
  skewer (as illustrated).  [Illustration is a series of simple drawings of 
  duck carcass with a hand weaving the metal skewer through the skin alternate-
  ly on each side of the front-to-back tail cavity incision]  Then pinch and 
  pull the skin to loosen it from duck meat.  To inflate duck, use a clean 
  bicycle or ball pump, blowing air through the skin opening around the neck.
  Tie opening with a string to trap the air just blown in.  Bring 10 - 12 cups
  (2 1/2 - 3 L) water to a boil and dip entire duck into boiling water, using
  a ladle to pour water over entire duck for approximately 3 - 4 minutes.  Pat
  dry.  Hang duck to dry for 5 - 6 hours in a drafty or well-ventilated place
  (beyond reach of any big or small innocent animals, including your beloved 
  doggie -- it can be very tempting!)  In a saucepan, combine vinegar, honey,
  and 1 cup water; bring to a boil.  Brush mixture evenly over air-dried duck.
  Hang duck to dry for an additional 4 hours, until skin looks light brown and
  dry.  (You can prepare this a day ahead)


  2.  To roast duck:

  Preheat oven to 400 deg. F (200 deg. C); place duck on a rack in a roasting
  pan, lined with aluminum foil (the higher the rack from the bottom of the
  pan, the better).  Roast duck, breast side up, for 20 minutes.  Turn over
  (breast side down); reduce heat to 350 deg. F (180 deg. C) and cook for 30
  minutes.  Roast duck for another 30 minutes, turning duck a couple of times.
  Increase heat to 375 deg. F (190 deg. C); continue to roast duck for 15 min-
  utes, turning occasionally.  (Remove oil from roasting pan, if too much ac-
  cumulates while cooking duck).


  3.  In a saucepan, combine sauce ingredients and bring to a boil.  Transfer
  to a saucer and set aside.


  4.  Arrange pancakes, shredded cucumber and green onion on small plates;
  set aside.


  5.  To serve:

  Carve off skin with a thin layer of meat; arrange on a large serving platter.
  Let your guests help themselves by spreading 1/2 teaspoon (2 ml) sauce on the
  steamy pancake, then add a few pieces of cucumber, shredded green onion and
  1 - 2 pieces of duck.  Roll into a cylinder and eat with fingers.


  Remarks

  * Traditionally, leftover duck meat will be hand shredded and stir-fried with
    bamboo shoot, cabbage and black mushrooms, as a second dish.

  * The duck carcass can be used to prepare a soup which is served after all 
    the skin and pancakes are gone!!

  * To prepare Mandarin pancakes, follow the instructions on pages 244 - 245
    in the "Yan Can Cook Book".

  The following is from "The Joy of Wokking" by Martin Yan.  I have included
  Martin's comments as they appear in the text.  My comments are in square []
  brackets.  The recepie is word-for-word from the book.

  Steve


                      Pie-Pa Duck (Cantonese Roast Duck)

  This is a very Cantonese way to prepare a duck -- opened on breast side,
  flattened, then barbecued.  It is named after a Chinese musical instrument
  which is flat and is called "Pie-Pa".


  1 fresh frozen duck (4 - 5 lbs., 2000 g), washed and dried
  1 1/2 teaspoons (7 ml) salt
  
  Skin Treatment Mixture:
  1 cup (250 ml) hot water
  2 1/2 tablespoons (37 ml) red wine vinegar
  3 tablespoons (45 ml) honey
  1 tablespoon (15 ml) wine

  Basting Sauce:
  1 tablespoon (15 ml) brown bean paste
  2 teaspoons (10 ml) hoisin sauce
  2 teaspoons (10 ml) sesame paste or oil
  2 teaspoons (10 ml) wine
  1 teaspoon (5 ml) sugar
  1 clove garlic, crushed
  2 teaspoons (10 ml) soy sauce


  1.  Remove excess fat from duck (around opening).  Sprinkle 1 1/2 teaspoons
      salt over entire cavity of duck; let stand for 1-2 hours.

  2.  In one of the largest pots you can find, bring about 8 cups (2 L) of 
      water to a vigorous boil; put the entire duck into water and parboil
      for 2 minutes, turning frequently.  Hang and air-dry duck in a well-
      ventilated area for 5 hours or place in refrigerator overnight, without
      covering.

  3.  Cut open duck from breast side; press duck to flatten with palm.  Brush
      skin with skin treatment mixture; air dry for 4 hours.

  4.  Coat cavity of duck with basting sauce mixture; let stand for 30 minutes.
      Roast in a preheated oven at 400 deg. F (200 deg. C) on a rack, over a
      pan of water.  Roast for 20 minutes, skin side up.  Turn duck over, re-
      duce heat to 350 deg. F (180 deg. C) and roast for 25 minutes.  Continue
      to roast duck at 350 deg F by turning it on both sides occasionally for
      another 30 minutes.  Broil duck, skin side up, for 1 1/2 minutes (watch
      out -- it browns easily!)

  5.  To serve, cut up duck into bite-size pieces.  Arrange on a platter, in
      the shape of the original duck.  Serve hot or cold.

    Also see note 3653.6 for recepie for a Cantonese recepie called
    "Braised Chicken (or Duck) with a Surprise".
    
    
    Steve

  The following is from "The Joy of Wokking" by Martin Yan.  I have included
  Martin's comments as they appear in the text.  My comments are in square []
  brackets.  The recepie is word-for-word from the book.

  Steve


                   Chilled Chicken (or Duck)  [Shanghai]

  Some like it hot, some like it cold!  This tender chicken is soaked in a
  subtle sauce mixture.  Rich with good flavors, it can be served anytime as
  an appetizer or as a main dish.


  3/4 pound (340 g) boneless chicken [duck]

  Marinade:
  2 1/2 teaspoons (12 ml) salt
  1 1/2 tablespoons (22 ml) wine
  1 1/2 teaspoons (7 ml) ginger juice
  1 1/2 tablespoons (22 ml) finely chopped green onion

  Soaking Sauce:
  3/4 cup (200 ml) soup stock
  3/4 teaspoon (3 ml) salt [if you use instant stock, you might want to cut
  this down or eliminate altogether, since instant stock has considerable salt]
  1/2 teaspoon (2 ml) sesame oil
  dash of white pepper
  1 teaspoon (5 ml) sugar
  1 tablespoon (15 ml) wine
  dash of five-spice powder (optional)


  1.  Clean and dry chicken [duck].  Marinate for 2 hours.

  2.  Bring a pot of water to a boil.  Add marinated chicken [duck], reduce
      heat and simmer chicken [duck] for 25 minutes.  Remove and cool.

  3.  Place chicken, whole or cut into bite-size pieces, in a casserole.
      Combine ingredients for soaking sauce and pour over chicken [duck].
      Refrigerate for at least 2 - 3 hours, turning several times.  Serve
      anytime.


  Remarks

  * You can also use cut-up chicken [duck] pieces which have not been deboned.

�I do not have "The Yan Can
�  Cook Book" where the recepie for the Mandarin pancakes is located.  
    
    The Frugal Gourmet suggests this substitution for Mandarin pancakes:
    
    Brush a flour tortilla on both sides with sesame oil and place on a
    piece of foil.  Stack up a bunch of oil brushed tortillas on this and
    wrap in the foil and put in the oven until warm.
    
�Hang duck to dry for 5 - 6 hours in a drafty or well-ventilated place
    
    The "Frug" suggests hanging it in front of a fan to speed things up a
    bit.

  Addition to .54

 >The following is from "The Joy of Wokking" by Martin Yan, and is word-for-
 >word from the book.  I have included Martin's comments as they appear in the
 >text.  My comments are in square [] brackets.  I do not have "The Yan Can
 >Cook Book" where the recepie for the Mandarin pancakes is located.  I'd like
 >to have the book, so when I get a copy, I'll enter the recepie.

 >Steve


  OK, I have "The Yan Can Cook Book" so I'll enter Martin's recepie for the
  Mandarin Pancakes which are used with the Peking Duck.



                              Mandarin Pancakes

  All cultures seem to have this old stand-by and the Chinese culture is no
  exception.  This dish is from northern China and is traditionally served
  with Peking duck and mushi pork.  For your convenience these pancakes can
  be frozen and used as you get the craving!  They keep for months.


  2 cups (500 ml) flour, unsifted
  3/4 cup (200 ml) boiling water
  1 tablespoon (15 ml) sesame oil

  1.  Place flour in a mixing bowl and make a well in the center; pour boiling
      water into well, stirring rapidly with chopsticks until well-blended.
      Let cool for 3 - 5 minutes.  Turn dough onto a lightly floured board
      and knead until smooth.  Cover and let rest for 30 minutes.

  2.  Turn dough out onto a lightly floured board and knead briefly.  Roll
      into 1 1/2" diameter roll.  Divide dough into 14 - 16 pieces.  Roll each
      piece into a ball.

  3.  Slightly flatten all balls with palm.  Brush tops of 1/2 of the balls
      with 1/8 teaspoon sesame oil.  Top each oiled ball with another ball and
      gently press together.  Roll each pair of balls with a rolling pin to
      1/8" thick circles.

  4.  Heat skillet or non-stick pan over medium-high heat.  Lightly oil the
      pan with 1/2 teaspoon sesame oil.  Brown each pancake 30 - 45 seconds on
      each side, moving pan constantly.

  5.  Immediately separate cooked pancakes by throwing firmly onto a clean
      counter and peeling the layers apart.  Keep warm.

  6.  Continue to cook remaining pancakes in sesame oil until all are cooked.
      Seal in aluminum foil and steam over high heat for 20 - 25 minutes.


  Remarks

     *Prepared pancakes can be kept frozen.  To use, defrost and steam in foil
      over boiling water for 18 - 20 minutes.

  The following is from "The Yan Can Cook Book" by Martin Yan.  I have included
  Martin's comments as they appear in the text.  My comments are in square []
  brackets.  The recepie is word-for-word from the book.

  Steve



                    Drunk Duck Fruity-Flavored Casserole

  This casserole is dedicated to my fine-feathered friends and to those who
  enjoy eating my fine-feathered friends!  The duck is cooked in a delicately
  balanced fruity sauce; it's out of this world with flavor.


  1/2 duck (about 2 pounds or 900 g), cut in half  [save the other 1/2 duck,
                                                    you'll need it in .61]
  1 small spring leek
  1/4 cup wine
  3 slices ginger
  1 teaspoon (5 ml) cornstarch

  Fruit sauce:
  1/2 cup (125 ml) soup stock
  2/3 cup (160 ml) wine
  2 1/2 tablespoons (37 ml) dark soy sauce
  1 ounce (28 g) rock sugar or 2 tablespoons (30 ml) brown sugar
  3/4 orange, sliced
  1/4 lemon sliced
  1 piece dried tangerine (optional)


  1.  Trim excess fat from duck.  Immurse duck in boiling water.  Add leek,
      wine and ginger and boil for 1 1/2 minutes.  Remove duck and set aside.

  2.  Combine fruit sauce ingredients in a bowl; mix well.

  3.  Place duck in a cassarole dish; add fruit sauce.  Cover and bake in a
      preheated oven at 375 deg. F (190 deg. C), for 1 1/2 hours.

  4.  Discard lemon and orange slices.  Transfer duck to platter.  Thicken 1/2
      cup of leftover sauce with 1 teaspoon cornstarch and pour over duck.
      Garnish with extra orange slices.

  The following is from "The Yan Can Cook Book" by Martin Yan.  I have included
  Martin's comments as they appear in the text.  My comments are in square []
  brackets.  The recepie is word-for-word from the book.

  Steve



                             Five-Spice Crispy Duck

  Daffy Duck finally made it into the soup pot.  And surprisingly enough,
  he's tender when marinated in an exotic sauce.  Fried to a crispy golden
  brown, a truly gourmet dish!


  4 cups (1 L) soup stock
  2 1/2 tablespoons (37 ml) dark soy sauce
  1/2 teaspoon (2 ml) salt
  2 pieces star anise
  2 slices ginger
  1 1/2 tablespoons (22 ml) brown sugar
  1/2 duck, about 2 pounds (900 g)  [Now, aren't you glad you saved that
                                     1/2 leftover duck from .60?]
  1 1/2 teaspoon (7 ml) five-spice powder
  1 1/2 tablespoons (22 ml) salted black beans
  2 tablespoons (30 ml) wine
  1 tablespoon (15 ml) cornstarch
  1 1/2 tablespoons (22 ml) flour
  6 cups (1 1/2 L) oil
  1/4 cup (60 ml) fruit chutney or plum sauce


  1.  Bring soup stock to a boil, add soy sauce, sugar, salt, ginger and star
      anise.  Place duck in stock and reduce heat to low.  Cover and simmer
      for 1 1/2 hours until tender.

  2.  Remove duck and dry well.

  3.  Combine five-spice powder, salted black beans and wine; mash to a paste.
      Rub sauce mixture evenly inside and outside of duck.

  4.  Mix cornstarch and flour and slightly pat onto the outside of duck.  Let
      stand dry for 30 minutes.

  5.  Deep fry duck in hot oil at medium high until golden brown.  Drain well
      and cut into bite-size pieces.

  6.  To serve, arrange duck and serve with fruit chutney or plum sauce.


  Remarks

     *Try this dish with a whole chicken in the same way.

    The Frugal Gourmet did a goose on his show this weekend (I believe it
    was a holiday special).  He said to pierce the bird all over with a
    fork, then pour boiling water over it to remove some of the fat, then
    roast it as usual.  Should work just as well for a duck...
    
    Sarah

    Ok this discussion has convinced me to do duck for xmas dinner.. not
    having done it before... how much should I plan.. same as chicken �
    duck per person?  I haven't seen duck inthe supermarket.. am Ijust not
    looking hard enough.. Sources in the Leominster area?
    
    Thanks
    
    bob

    � duck/person is about right.  Look in the frozen meat section of your
    supermarket.

    I've tried cooking Mandarin pancakes this way (i.e. putting one lump of
    dough on top of another oiled lump and rolling and cooking the two
    together) and each time I've had an absolute disaster. I guess I just
    don't have the necessary skill.
    
    The way I cook them is to roll out a lump of dough to form a single
    pancake about 1mm thick - I aim for 8" (200mm) diameter pancakes, you
    get more filling in it that way. I then plonk it into a preheated iron 
    skillet, but with absoluely no oil. You have to jiggle a bit to get the 
    temperature of the skillet correct; too hot and the pankcake generally 
    burns before it cooks, too cool and it takes ages to cook and you end
    up with leathery pancakes.
    
    Whilst one pancake is cooking, I am rolling another; all the time
    keeping an eye on the pancake which is cooking. When bubbles appear on
    top (about 20 to 30 seconds) I know its time to flip the pancake. I use
    a spatula to press down the pancake so it all cooks. It only needs 15
    to 20 seconds on the flip side. Do not over cook these pancakes, they
    tend to go hard and are difficult to roll, even with steaming.
    
    If you can't be bothered to cook Mandarin pancakes and you can't buy
    them, then a reasonable substitute is Spring roll wrappers; provided
    you can buy these.
    
    Angus

    RE: .65
    
    I've been very successful with the traditional method of placing one
    lump of dough on top of another lump and rolling out and cooking the
    two together.  Here's a few tips:
    
    1) flatten both lumps of dough to discs about 2" to 3" in diameter
    before you place one on top of the other.
    
    2) make sure you liberally coat the bottom lump with sesame oil before
    you place the other lump on top.
    
    3) after placing one on top of the other, flatten out the discs a bit
    by hand before going to the rolling pin.
    
    4) when flattening and rolling, try to keep the edges of the two discs
    even with each other.  Also, avoid folds in the dough.  The folds will
    make it hard to separate the pancakes later.
    
    5) If you've used enough oil and been careful in rolling them out, the
    steam as the pancakes cook should do most of the work of separating
    them.  In fact, if they aren't starting to separate because of steam,
    you probably haven't cooked them long enough.  Reduce the heat if they
    start browning or burning before they start separating.
    
    6) separate them while they are hot.  You may have to go a bit at a
    time to avoid burning your fingers.  If you let them cool, they'll
    stick back together and you'll never get them apart.
    
    --PSW

We recently cooked duck by the "steam roast" method described in Julia
Child's _The Way to Cook_. I must say, both my wife and I were
skeptical, but it was the best result we've had with duck available in
New England supermarkets. The breast was very tender and moist, as were
the legs. The skin wasn't quite as crispy as I would've liked, but I
think that can be improved by (1) pricking the breast skin a lot (the
recipe didn't call for that at all), and (2) roasting at a slightly
higher temp (the recipe called for 375F for 30-40 minutes).

Basically:

- take a 5-6 pound duck
- remove as much fat as you can
- season it as you like (we used 4 coarsely chopped cloves of garlic
  and some rosemary and thyme inside)
- steam it breast up on a rack in a large, covered casserole for 30 min
- pour off all the liquid; cover the rack with foil; pour in wine/water/
  whatever; add some cut up onions, carrots, celery; put duck on rack
  breast down; bring to simmer; cover and braise in oven for 30 min at
  325F
- roast uncovered on unfoiled rack breast up for 30-40 min in roasting
  pan at 375F

As I said, I would prick the breast skin and do the final roast at 400F
to improve the crispness. Otherwise, the result was excellent. Of
course, you still have all that wonderful fat to deal with ...

    A follow up.. I did the duck per .19 Village Inn... cooked the duck for
    12 hrs @ 180 refrigerate and then crisp the skin.. all went well but I
    still had a healthy layer of fat under the skin.. Is this normal?
    
    The raspberry sauce was about twice what is needed... I'd cut in half
    next time.
    
    BTW I Cooked up the frames and have @3qts of gelled duck stock.. any
    suggestions for some yummy fat free duck stock?
    

�    BTW I Cooked up the frames and have @3qts of gelled duck stock.. any
�    suggestions for some yummy fat free duck stock?
    
    Substitute it for any recipe that calls for chicken stock.  It will
    definately richen the dish.

	Made duck stock yesterday.  While it might be too strong for many
	applications, it makes a wonderful base for Asian-style soups.

	We added carrot,ginger,scallion and duck-breast that had been
	marinated in 5-spice powder (we sauteed the duck first).

	

              <<< Note 434.69 by PATE::MACNEAL "ruck `n' roll" >>>

�    BTW I Cooked up the frames and have @3qts of gelled duck stock.. any
�    suggestions for some yummy fat free duck stock?
    
    Substitute it for any recipe that calls for chicken stock.  It will
    definately richen the dish.

I've been reading this note with interest because there seems to be a glut of
fairly good-quality farmed ducks in Europe at the moment. (This maybe as a
result of new trade with central Europe, as poultry is something they are very
good at.) I've been eating my way throught the brands of duck in the supermarket
freezer and chill cabinet for the past year or so.

My recipe options have been constrained by the fact that I have often had only a
hot plate and small (Baby Belling style) oven. Although you can't beat a plain
roast duck, the following recipe is delicious. Not only can you do it on the
stove top (provided you have a dutch oven and a large frying pan) but it is also
by way of being a classic.

	1 large (2 kilo) duck, ready to cook, plus giblets
	50g fat bacon and 25g butter (or equivalent or less cooking oil)
	25g flour
	75 ml stock (or a small onion or shallot, bayleaf and parsley: see 	
								recipe)
	500g or more parsnips (I like parsnips)
	1 onion, stuck with a clove
	1 bouquet garni, or at least a couple of bayleaves
	juice of 1/2 lemon

1.) If you don't have stock ready made, take the giblets from the duck. Set
aside the liver. (You could fry the liver while the frying pan is heating up and
eat it or keep it for a snack later.) Boil up the rest with 1 l water, a small
onion or shallot, a bayleaf and stem plus root and leaves of parsley (or any
other suitable bouquet garni). Let this simmer while you do the next bit.
Alternatively, heat up prepared stock and keep the giblets for something else.

2.) Heat up the fat in the frying pan. (If you use oil and less of it, the duck
is more likely to burn and it doesn't taste quite the same, but it works if
you're careful and you probably get less nett fat.) Brown the duck (which you
have washed and dried) on all sides. Try not to char it, though it doesn't do
too much harm if you do. The fat runs off quite remarkably.

3.) When the duck is browned, remove from the pan. Pour off all but 2 tbs of the
fat (use it for fries later). Fry the parsnips (cut into halves or quarters
lengthwise depending on how big they are). Remove the parsnips. Make a roux with
the flour and the fat in the pan. Add 60 or so ml of the hot stock slowly to
make a thickish gravy.

4.) Put the duck in a large pot (dutch oven). Add the onion with a clove. Pour
the gravy over the duck. Simmer for 1-1 1/2 hours, or until the duck is well on
the way to being done. 1/2 hour before you think the duck will be at the falling
to pieces stage, pour off most of the gravy. Add the parsnips and the rest of
the stock. Return to simmer.

5) Put the gravy in the fridge until the fat has congealed a bit and remove the
fat. (This is a health hazard, though I do it unless the fridge is full and I'm
feeding other people.) Alternatively, skim of as much of the fat as you can.

6) When the duck is at the falling to bits stage, remove from the heat, lift out
the parsnips, discard the onion and mix the remaining gravy with the defatted
gravy. Add the lemon juice (or white wine vinegar). Serve portions of duck with
parsnips and gravy.

Falling to bits means that the legs and wings start to detach of their own
accord and you can pull them of without cutting.

I like mashed potatoes with this.

Leslie Forbes (in Remarkable Feast, a beautiful book) has a version of this
recipe which she adapts from Jane Grigson. She tells you to roast the duck at
190C for about the same length of time. I haven't tried this, but it would
probably work well. You'll never get a low-fat duck dish though.

PS Leslie Forbes also says that this recipe comes from a French revolutionary
cookbook where it is called canard a la menagere.

    Has anyone out there ever tried a duck cooked on a rotisserie(sp?)?
    Nothing is better than sitting out on the patio, with my favorite
    beverage (or two, or three) watching that pork roast, beef roast, or
    chicken, slowly turning over those hot coals for a couple of hours.
    
    I'm wondering if duck can be cooked the same way, and if anyone had any
    ideas or pitfalls to avoid.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Tom
    

        Duck is approximately 97.35982% grease. Watch for flare-ups and
        enjoy the cinder ;*)
        
        On a similar note, I'll append Dawn Bank's classic on cooking a
        goose...
        
                          -< Dawn Bank's Goose story >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	An Annotated Guide to Cooking Your Goose (Slightly updated)


          It was this time last year, on the 22nd.  In spite of the thermometer
     reading 50 degrees, I was finally starting to get into the Christmas
     spirit.  With visions of Charles Dickens and Mr Magoo swimming in my head,
     I decided that it would be the Christmas that I finally had my Christmas
     goose.  This decision cost me a long standing relationship with perhaps the
     only person in the universe who would actually live with me and enjoy it,
     but such is the price of dreams fulfilled.

          See, my then sweetheart didn't really like fowl that much.  Well, he
     liked chicken a lot, and it took almost nothing to talk him into a Jean
     Shepherd memorial Peking Duck on Christmas (albeit in a restaurant), but
     there's just something about roasting a large fowl at home that really put
     him off.  The "something" was that he couldn't stand it.

          The smell of roasting turkey was the worst for him, which always made
     him an absolute delight come Thanksgiving day.  He tolerated the scoops of
     starch slop that go along with such a dinner, but he only tolerated it
     because he couldn't think of anyplace better to stay.

          The other problem he had with eating big home-roasted birds was my
     cooking technique, which somehow manages to evenly distribute bits of
     dinner all over the kitchen (and parts of the living and dining rooms).
     Lest he think "Well, it makes her happy", he also got to watch me drop the
     bird on the floor, find out that pies ALWAYS land face down, invent whole
     new mathematical disciplines to express the unprecedented number of lumps
     in my gravy (which he hated even more than the bird), cuss a lot, cry a
     lot, and cut at least half my hair off with the electric knife.

          So, it was with the same look of confused concern that he used back
     when I was going to give myself a lyposuction job (with nothing but an
     Exact-O knife and bad intentions), that he finally gave in and let me cook
     my goose last Christmas.  The only condition was that I allowed him to
     cover all the kitchen surfaces in plastic first.

          Actually, we made a feeble attempt to find a restaurant that served
     Christmas goose.  Feeble because we actually found a place (or were told of
     it before we even started to look), but failed to make reservations because
     I didn't know if it was worth driving to the next state for.  Anyway, I
     enjoy cooking, or so I seemed to think.

          Cooking one's goose is an interesting experience, to say the least.
     The first thing you should do in preparing a goose is to take pictures of
     your kitchen before you start.  This isn't absolutely necessary, but it is
     nice proof that so much damage could be done in a few short hours.

          As it turned out, I learned quite a bit about geese that I didn't know
     before; perhaps a few things I should have known and a couple that I still
     don't want to know.  Here's one thing about geese: They're water fowl.
     Doesn't mean anything to you?  Well try this: I seriously doubt that geese
     have found out about Jane Fonda workout tapes yet.  I mean, I thought *I*
     was fat, but I hadn't seen anything yet.

          Another thing is that geese are approximately the most ornery critters
     on the face of this planet.  Sure, a shark will eat you without so much as
     a "by your leave", and a cat will devour everything you hold dear, but a
     goose is just downright nasty.  Try walking up to introduce yourself to one
     sometime, and you'll see what I mean.  The only reason geese aren't more
     popular than watchdogs is that a watch-goose would just as happily kill its
     owner, as well as any intruder.

          I guess I knew that much already, but what I didn't know is that
     they're just as ornery in death as they are in life.  They're hard to find
     in the supermarket, they have tons of gookie stuff inside that you have to
     clean out of them, they feel even more disgusting than raw chicken, and
     they'll hiss and spit at you the whole time you're roasting them.

          Here's something else that I didn't know: Roasting a goose is almost
     exactly like roasting a 12 pound slab of bacon, except that bacon would be
     less messy.

          In a nutshell, take a 12 pound goose, stick it in the oven, and when
     all's said and done with, you'll have five pounds of cooked goose and
     seventeen pounds of goose grease.  I have no idea how this can happen, but
     I was there, and it happened.  Another thing that happened was that we
     found about four sets of directions for cooking goose, and none of them
     seemed to match.

          You'd think that you'd just stick it in a roasting pan and cook it
     like a turkey, but you'd be wrong.  Of course, you could try, and you'd
     probably end up with a lot smaller mess, but this is clearly not in keeping
     with what appears to be a tradition of lubricating your entire kitchen on
     Christmas day.  It would seem that the directions for cooking the goose are
     ritualistic to some extent; a sort of penance that does almost as much harm
     to the goose as it does to the chef.

          In the end, we took the steps that all the different directions seemed
     to agree on, and were met with about as much success as you'd expect in
     such a venture.  I'm just recounting them here from memory, although I
     still have some strong memories, so I think it'll be accurate:

     Step 1: Thaw the goose.  This is the easy part.  It converts what used to
     be an oblong brick in a plastic bag into a soft, mushy, disgusting feeling
     salmonella culture in a plastic bag.  Yes, you will have to remove it from
     the plastic bag, which will probably require about as much courage as you
     can muster.

     Step 2: Remove the excess fat from the body cavity.  Don't take this too
     seriously, else you might not have any goose left afterward.  The excess
     fat in the body cavity will probably constitute about 1/5 of the bird by
     weight.

     Step 3: If it's a wild goose, oil the skin.  If it isn't, you've got to be
     crazy to even consider more oil.  As a matter of fact, I can't imagine why
     you'd want to oil the skin on even a wild goose.  Maybe by "wild", they
     didn't mean the origins of the goose itself, but rather the experience
     you're planning on having.

     Step 4: Stuff the bird.  Might as well make the stuffing dry, because
     there'll be no end of moisture for it to soak up later on.  You'll also
     probably notice that there's room for more stuffing inside the bird than
     there is meat on the bird.  My sweetie took this to be a good sign.

     Step 5: Put the bird in a shallow roasting pan.  Now, nothing ever really
     said why it should be shallow, and not just a regular deep roasting pan
     like one I always use to roast turkey.  As a matter of fact, I've heard of
     people doing quite well with a deep roasting pan.  I think the reason that
     you don't want to use a deep one is that if you're lax about following
     steps 7-18, you'll end up deep frying the bird in its own fat. With a
     shallow pan, it'll just run over the sides.

     Step 6: Put the bird in a 400 degree oven, breast side up, for an hour.

     Steps 7-18: Stop by every five minutes to siphon off the quart of grease
     that's materialized since you last saw the bird.  Wear dark glasses when
     you do this, because when you open the oven door, it'll be hissing and
     spitting bad enough already, and if it recognizes you, it'll only make it
     even more angry.  The dark glasses won't just disguise you.  They'll also
     keep you from getting grease spit in your eye.

     Not even death can diminish the crabbiness of a goose.

     Oh yes: Also part of these steps is to continually reset the smoke alarm.
     All the fat shooting off the goose that manages to miss you is going to
     fall right square on the oven's heating elements, and generate almost as
     much smoke.

     Step 19: Reduce the heat to 325 degrees and turn the bird over.  The only
     fathomable reason for turning the bird is that by now it'll be stuck to the
     bottom of the pan, and trying to turn it will distribute goose fat over all
     exposed kitchen surfaces when the thing comes unstuck.  Anyway, the spirit
     of the soon departed goose will be amused at watching you and your soon to
     be ex-spouse gingerly trying to wrestle a hissing, spitting, slimey
     disgustingly greasy 400 degree bird carcass loose from the bottom of the
     roasting pan.

     Steps 20-43: Stop by every five minutes for the next two hours to siphon
     off the rest of the grease.  The goose should be pretty well dead by now
     (or at least pretty lethargic), meaning that you can put away (throw away)
     the dark glasses.  It won't be spitting grease anymore.  It'll just be
     gushing out the sides.

     Step 44: Answer the doorbell and explain to the EPA agent what you're doing
     to the sewer system, why you're doing it, and how it relates to Christmas
     and the holiday spirit.

     Step 45: When the greaseball (I mean goose) reaches an internal temperature
     of 195 degrees, remove from the oven, take a shower, and frantically
     prepare all the side dishes.

     Step 46: After the bird has cooled for 15 minutes, gingerly pierce the skin
     with a fork, and try to catch the bird as it flies around the kitchen
     explosively disposing of hot grease under pressure.

     Step 47: Attempt to carve the bird, marveling at how it can have a
     completely unexpected and illogical bone structure.  Don't worry about
     where on the bird the meat comes from, because it's all dark meat: A rich
     dark brown.  Keep a firm grip on the knife as it slides around on all the
     greasy parts (which is anything in the kitchen, at this point).

     Step 48: Sit down to some of the most wonderful tasting poultry you're ever
     liable to sink teeth into.  This stuff is to die for (and you probably
     almost did).

          It's one of the most wonderful things I've ever eaten.  Furthermore,
     the stuffing took on some goose flavoring, too, so it tasted wonderful as
     well.

          My dearest said: "Well, it's sort of like turkey dark meat."  Roughly
     translated into English, that meant "This really stinks and I hope it's at
     least another decade before I have to endure this again."

          Oh yes, I almost forgot:

     Step 49: Rush down to the emergency room and get those 2nd and 3rd degree
     burns all over your face looked at.  On second thought, don't.  The doctor
     will just suffocate himself laughing, mutter something about "goose
     measles", and insist on taking your cholesterol level.  No, he isn't
     worried about your health.  He and the other doctors have a pool going to
     see who can find the person with the highest cholesterol count.  One look
     at you, and he knows that he's going home a rich man.

          Well, *I* thought it was wonderful, and as soon as we've worked out
     the divorce settlement, I think I'll try doing it again.  Ok, so it lost me
     a ten year relationship with the one I loved.  That's the downside.  The
     upside is that I can cook my goose again this year.  It's the 22nd, and I'm
     already laying the tarp down in the kitchen.

                           ++++++++=========+++++++++
            

    Thanks,
    
    I needed that and my cubies are wondering why tears are running down
    my cheeks and I am giggling maniacally.  (I tried a cassoulet(sp) one
    year for Thanksgiving, it was almost as memorable and my mother now
    insists that all Thanksgivings be done at my house.  I cooked the
    cassoulet in her kitchen.)
    
    meg