Conference trucks::football;1

    Or rather, a lack of interest in the US media?
    
     �JF?

    I've heard of no such rumor here. There' plenty of interest, except,
    as JF points out, in the Media. I wouldn't worry about it, however.
    Its superbowl time and nothing else really matters in sports until
    after 26 January. Americans do not get excited about any sporting event
    untill a few days before the event. I bet most American sports fans
    can't tell you when the France Winter Olympics start. But stop at a given
    house/bar on Feb 10 and I bet most people will be glued to their TV's.
    
    Come on 94! 
    
    JC

    
    	re. -.1 DITTO!
    
    	There is so much goin' on in the US, consiering it's 52 states,
    	multi-sports etc, that people are geared to playoffs, the do-or-die
    	games.
    
    	WC is something everyone is looking forward too. It has been
    measured on the basis of how many super-bowls were needed to generate
    the same revenue.
    
    	Boston is a candidate to the Olympics of 2004, and it was pointed
    out that it is equivalent to 56 super-bowls in terms of dollars.
    
    	So, bottom line: IT'S SUPER-BOWL TIME, but world class events that
    generate glitter, glamour and $$$ will be noted in due time.
    
    	Rumor can be cancelled!
    
    	tony
    
    	ps.: Not Argentina again; Peru would allow 6 goals in a match!

  Re -.1;

       52 states? I knew I should have watched the news last night! I
       thought there were only 50  :-).


      Jerry

What do you think Puerto Rico and Canada are???????

	;->

    
    	re last..
    
    	I think you meant Alaska (purchased from Russia a few years ago..)
    	rather than Canada...I few Canadians I know would be more than a 
    	little upset by that idea 8-)
    
    	Andy.

    More than a little !
    
    Wayne

	That was the whole point.  It was a joke.  I guess it did not
	go over big.  Sorry if I offended any Canadians.

	F.

    Its O.K.
    
    You sorta get used to jokes like that. I should have put a ;-) on my
    last reply.
    
    I wasn't really offended. (Are there any other Canucks in here ?)
               
    Regards,
    Wayne

    Just so you know....
    
    A recent survey carried by CNN showed 40 percent of Canadiens
    believe Canada will someday become the northern region of the US.
    30 percent believe they already are.....
    
    

	re .10

>    A recent survey carried by CNN showed 40 percent of Canadiens
							       ^
	Does this spelling indicate the poll was carried out amongst
	francophones, or only members of the Montreal ice hockey team?

	:-) :-)

	Tony

    I'm surprised that nobody mentioned this before now, but according to
    an item in the International Herald Tribune on January 9th (I just got
    mine in the mail today!), FIFA have formally denied reports that it is
    planning to move the 94 WC.  The piece in its entirety follows....
    
    
    ZURICH (Reuters) - FIFA took the rare step on Wednesday of formally
    denying reports that it plans to move soccer's 1994 World Cup finals
    from the United States.
       "Contrary to rumors being spread in the international press, FIFA
    has no reason whatsoever to consider transferring the next World Cup
    from the U.S.A. to another country," FIFA, soccer's world governing 
    body, said in a statement.
       Recent newspaper articles had reported that FIFA was considering
    moving the competition to South America because of the American
    public's indifference to the sport.
    
    

    Ref: .12
    
    You caught me. Just thought I'd give the French-Canadians a plug.
    
    Back to the topic at hand:
    
    The WC 94 organizers have decided on 12 cities for the 1994 cup and
    will announce their choices in early March. For related article see
    87.last.
    
    JC 
    

On the Independent on Saturday Henry Winter (Football Diary) wrote the 
following nugget which I para-phrase:

The Americans have announces their official artist for the upcoming World Cup. 
The guy is called Peter Max and is described as "a master of dynamic
neo-expressionism".  He commented that *this fact* would help the 
Republic of Ireland to qualify.  Peter Max said that "I am very excited to 
combine my images and colour with this fluid international sport of sports".

Can anyone describe what could he mean?  The above is a complete para-phrase
of what he wrote.  I can't see the connection between neo-expressionism and
the way the Republic of Ireland play.  Can anyone help me understand?

                             James.

James,

what is a "complete para-phrase"

 - Kevin

Kev,

I don't think it is allowable to dictate exactly what appeared on the newspaper
*but* it is ok, legally, to para-phrase i.e. tell what he said.  In this case, 
I completely para-phrased what he said without typing what was actually printed.

                             James.

James,

	Glad we got that cleared up.

 - Kev

    
    FIFA'S first ever seeding of World Nations came out today.
    
    Don't know the whole list but the Rep Of Ireland were placed in 6th
    place, England came 11th and Scotland,Wales & N.Ireland were outside
    the top 20.
    
    Seems reasonable to me.
    
    Del.

11th?

What a cheek!

Call me blind to reality, but I can't believe that there are 10 teams in the
world that are better than england.

The Republic at 6th seems fair enough though.

Who is judged to be the top 5? Germany, Holland, Italy, I imagine but who else?
France? Denmark? Argentina? Yugoslavia?

Mike

>Call me blind to reality, but I can't believe that there are 10 teams in the
>world that are better than england.
    
    Have you already forgotten those wonderful results we had at the end of 
    last season ?

    
    Don't know for sure who's above Engerland but it seems fair enough
    to me. Their recent record has not been too impressive. In getting
    to the W.C semi final it was luck rather than skill that got them
    there. :-)
    
    Del.

Re .19
>> 11th?

>> What a cheek!

>> Call me blind to reality, but I can't believe that there are 10 teams in 
>> the world that are better than england.

Shouldnt that read 'I can't believe that there are 110 teams in the world
worse than england' ?

Patrick ;-)

    
    This isn't a Friday afternoon wind-up by any chance ?
    
    Paul

Everyone knows that the last set of football abominations were just freak
results. Once we qualify for USA 94 we will at least get to the semis, and win
it if we don't come across some complete cheats like we normally do.

You can enjoy our relative mediocrity while it lasts, because you know that
sooner or later we'll all wake up and England will once again dominate world
football.

And now it's time for my pills.

Mike

1  Germany
2  Italy
3  Switzerland
4  Sweden
5  Argentina
6  Republic of Ireland
7  Russia
8  Brazil
9  Norway
10 Denmark

England 11th, France 12th, Spain 13th, Holland 16th, Wales 27th, and 
Scotland 30th. Zambia, Egypt, USA, and Ivory Coast are ranked higher then
Scotland.

�@

    
    How can Switzerland be ranked so many places higher than the European
    Champions Denmark? At the moment their doing well in qualification for
    the W.C but their record prior to that is far from exceptional.
    
    Strange one.
    
    Del. 
     

re. -1

they're probably ranked there because the lists are based on recent form, and
their recent form is pretty good (long unbeaten run, another good win away in
Sweden last week ...). In truth they're not a bad side, but they're certainly
not in the top five in the world.

ray

I think the table's based on a complicated (has anyone seen it?) formula using 
results from the last SIX years. But why?

g

>       ZURICH Switzerland, (UPI) -- Soccer's world governing body FIFA Friday
>published, for the first time, a world ranking list based ``on a
>complicated mathematical formula devised by the Swiss Institute of
>Technology in Zurich,'' FIFA spokesman Guido Tognoni said.
>       The formula is based on each team's last eight international games,
>performances in the previous five years as well as the ``bonus
>ingredients'' of ``attacking spirit, away victories and the ranking of a
>beaten opponent.
>       All those factors are differently weighted.
>       Tognoni said the ranking will be published several times a year but
>will have no bearing on seeding procedures in the World Cup.
>       However, it will serve to give a special award as ``Team of the Year''
>to the national side that climbed farthest up the ladder.
>       At look at the table shows world champion Germany top with Italy
>second but a surprise third is Switzerland.
>       A non-power since 1966 -- the last time the Swiss qualified for the
>World Cup finals -- it has remained unbeaten in its last 11 matches,
>including seven World Cup qualifiers.
>       ``It is a great honor, of course, to be ranked that high,'' said Roy
>Hodgson, the British coach of the Swiss national team. ``On the other
>hand, in view of our next World Cup qualifying match against Scotland
>(ranked a lowly 30), I would have preferred to be ranked Number 86
>instead of Number 3. Now, everybody expects us to win. But the idea is
>very good.''
>       Berti Vogts, coach of the German team, called the ranking ``a nice
>toy. Still, it confirms the good standing of German soccer in the world.
>What I like about it that friendly matches are counted too. They become
>more important this way.''
>       Germany tops the list with 57.70 points, followed by Italy with 56.
>99, Switzerland with 56.81 and Sweden with 56.35.
>       Argentina, unbeaten since losing the World Cup final against Germany
>in 1990, is fifth with a total of 56.20 points.
>       Brazil, one of the World Cup favorites, is ranked only eighth, and
>reigning European champion Denmark tenth.
>       The U.S., host of the 1994 World Cup finals, is at 28.
>
>FIFA rankings as of August 1, 1993
>1. Germany 57.70 points
>2. Italy 56.99
>3. Switzerland 56.81
>4. Sweden 56.35
>5. Argentina 56.20
>6. Ireland 55.38
>7. Russia 54.67
>8. Brazil 54.49
>9. Norway 54.35
>10. Denmark 53.47
>11. England 52.89
>12. France 51.90
>13. Spain 50.83
>14. Mexico 50.27
>15. Czech Republic/Slovakia 50.03
>16. Holland 49.97
>17. Nigeria 49.53
>18. Belgium 47.77
>19. Colombia 47.67
>20. P0oland 47.57
>21. Romania 47.18
>22. Uruguay 45.97
>23. Portugal 45.91
>24. Cameroon 45.03
>25. Zambia 44.77
>26. Egypt 44.43
>27. Wales 44.40
>28. United States 44.13
>29. Ivory Coast 43.00
>30. Scotland 41.79


                                                                     regards....

                                                                         -dave-

Hmmmm.

So, if I understand this correctly, this new "complicated formula" which has
placed Switzerland in the top 3 footballing nations in the world, to the
amazement of everyone, was developed in.... Switzerland.

Highly suspicious.

Obviously that explains why England are ranked a preposterously low 11th.

Mike

Hang on. In their last two matches against the Swiss (both were World Cup 
Qualifiers), Italy got a 4th minute of injury time equaliser in Sardinia, and 
lost at Wankdorf.

How come they are ahead of Switzerland? ;-)

-Steve

    Surely there should be an average somewhere in there ? Are the points
    summed up per match over a period of time and averaged or do the teams
    who have played more matches have an advantage ?
    
    Rich Harris.
    
    p.s. Strange coincidence about the Swiss. Sounds like they use a
    similar formula to calculate the unemployment figures here in G.B.
    
    
    

	RE:.32
		Teams that play more matches have an advantage. I can recall
		reading that this is some sort of incentive for teams to play
		more games, however I can't see how playing more games would
		be an advantage to England, they would probably drop way down
		the listings.
		
	          _
		SEAN.

    Personally I see no problem in Switzerland being ranked 3rd.
    
    -Dom
    Geneva

    I hope no one takes this ranking seriously.  This complicated formula
    yields sensless results except for the ranking of Germany.  
    These very honest and motivated 'scientists' need to go back to the
    drawing board.  So far, it seems to me that the most important factors
    were: 
    	1)  The superb world cup record of germany from WC '74 to now,
    	2)  The great concentration of the world's top players in Italy
    	    over the last decade, making for high level games, 
    	3)  and of course the country that initiated and hosted this whole
    	    ranking joke (it's a joke isn't it?)
    There is nothing wrong with trying to rank teams.  Any ranking that put
    the Swiss in the top ten is hard to swallow.  Maybe they will surprise
    the world and win the next world cup. (Or maybe they will surprise the
    world and qualify for the next world cup:) 

    I think the Swiss results over the last two years speak for themselves.
    They are 11 games unbeaten,drew 2-2 in Italy where they let in a stupid
    injury time goal. Beat Italy in the return game and beat Sweden last
    week in Sweden. 

    As for the WC qualification. At the moment it's as follows. Switzerland
    need two points to guarentee qualification. Probably get them against
    Scotland in Sept. :^)

                       P  W  D  L  F  A  Pts
                      
        Switzerland    7  5  2  0  18 3    12
        Italy          7  4  2  1  15 6    10
    
    Italy 	2-2 	Switzerland
    Switerland	1-0	Italy

Still to come

    8 Sep 93	Scotland    v    Switzerland
    13 Oct 93	Portugal    v    Switzerland
    17 Nov 93	Switzerland  v    Estonia
    
    
    Cheers, Paul. 
    
    Who is not Swiss
    
    But me wife is

Could someone please confirm if the New York/New Jersey venue for the World
Cup is the Meadowlands Stadium.

Thanks

�@

I remain suspicious. 

How can Switzerland who did not qualify for Europe or the last world cup be
rated higher tha teams like Denmark who not only qualified but won the European
cup. 

If the reason is Switzerland's performance in World Cup qualifiers why are Italy
ranked higher than them? Doesn't make any sense to me.

Mike

    I think too many people are taking the SWISS too lightly. Not only they
    have the record to show, but I really think they will advance to the
    final 24 to come to the states. Just because the country is small, that
    does not make them any lesser able to play good soccer. Plain and
    simple..... They have a good team! That's more than I can say for some
    larger, and supposed better soccer countries.
    
    Nick (and I'm not Swiss eigther)

bah humbug.

I still think England should be in the top three.

8-)

Mike

    You can't be ranked just on MEMORIES alone! Anyway, it's hard to
    accept it ha!... especially if you're English.
    
    (%>)
    
    Nick

>     You can't be ranked just on MEMORIES alone! Anyway, it's hard to

That a good idea Nick. The rankings should be based on a teams performance
during the summer of 1966. That would give a much more realistic picture.

Patrick.

   Didn't Denmark get a wild card at the expense of Yugoslavia???? and then they
went on to win... It might happen to England!!!! well at the least the wildcard
bit.. and then ye'll meet the Swiss and find out why there rated No 3....

   Iam more surprised that England are so high up... Like how have they done for
the past 11 games???? There's at least 5-6 draws in there, 2-3 defeats and the 
same number of wins.... When was actually the last time England won a game??????

   The Swiss over the past 18 months have had some excellent results and
remember they get bonus points for results against nations like Italy. 

                                                                     -dave-

.43
>Iam more surprised that England are so high up... Like how have they done for
>the past 11 games???? There's at least 5-6 draws in there, 2-3 defeats and the 
>same number of wins.... When was actually the last time England won a game?????

Exactly Why are they so high, why not the likes of Wales, I'm sure their results
are far better in comparison to Englands.

	  _
	SEAN.

Why are England so high up?

ANSWER:

1) We won the World Cup in 1966.

2) We would have won the World Cup in 1986 if Maradona hadn't cheated and scored
   with his hand.

3) We were clearly the best team in Italia 90 and only lost because:
	a) Haessler dived and got Gazza banned
	b) We made a couple of mistakes when taking penalties which are a stupid
	   way of settling the World Cup Semi. Note that because of the
	   injustice done us, FIFA have changed the rules for USA 94.

4) We play a much faster, more skillful game of football.

5) We manage all this despite donating all our decent managers to second rate
   international sides like ireland and switzerland. Notice the results of our
   generosity.

I rest my case.

Mike

8-)

    RE. -1
    
    USA 2      ENGLAND 0

    re .39
    
    I don't believe teams should be ranked on old memories.  I also like to
    see teams coming from nowhere and surprise us all: Poland and Holland
    in 1974 and 1978, Cameroon in 1982 and 1990, Dennmark last year.
    The problem I have with Switzerland being ranked third is this: we
    hardly hear from them since 1966, we know little or nothing about their
    players, we don't remember the last time they won anything important. 
    Now that they have a good chance to qualify for the world cup, a
    formula developed in their own back yard is used to rank the national
    teams of the world.  Incidently, they found themselves in third place.
    
    I am saying that the real formula is the one that has everyone saying
    "Switz who"? when they hear of this ranking.    

    Re -2.
    
    Mike,
    
    Did you ever try mescaline. It's nearly as good as LSD, but you'll stop
    getting the hallucinations.

  Jasus Mike if ya know all those facts and fictions then surely ya must know
when yer Boys won their last game???? Was it against the mighty San Marino by
any chance?????? 
                                                         -dave-   -)))

As with all great champions we only really hit form in the big match atmosphere
of the finals. There should be some kind of rule that says we qualify
automatically.

Obviously given our long and glorious history it's difficult to remember the
precise details of our last great victory but wasn't it the one in which Malcolm
MacDonald scored five goals?

8-)

mike

    <<There should be some kind of rule that says we qualify
    automatically.>>
    
    Yes, and there should be some rule that says that only Brazil,
    Argentina, Germany and a wildcard can win, thus saving all that fuss
    with qualifying. If England were allowed say 50 entries into the hat
    then when the wildcard was randomly draw, we would have a fair chance
    of getting to the semis, but we still couldn't get to the final unless
    we were on home ground, and the year had two consecutive sixes in it.
    especially with the bunch of pilchards Taylor picks.
    
    Rich H.
    
    
    
    
    ;-)
    
    	

    
    We could always swap our soccer team for our cricket team and see if
    they do any better that way round.  My guess is that under those
    conditions we would win both the next World Cup (in soccer) and the
    current test series against Australia (in cricket).
    
    On what basis do I draw this conclusion, simple, absolute belief in the
    unacheivable...!
    
    Ian

    yes, but who would want some fat old men, playing for England ?
    
    actually it's a fair swap. Gatting for Fat Barnes !
    
    Rich
    
                                                      

    
    re : last
    
    I don't believe Gatting or Barnes played in the last respective England
    games, Gatting wasn't picked and Barnes hasn't done anything for years!
    
    

    
    	Instead of swapping the teams why not just swap the managers?
    Taylor for Fletcher. See how we get on then.
    
    	Actually it probably amounts to the same thing anyway.
    
    			Steve

Could someone please confirm if the New York/New Jersey venue for the World
Cup is the Meadowlands Stadium.

Thanks

�@

    Meadowlands Stadium IS the New York/NJ venue.
    
    Steve

    Brian,
    
    somewhere deep in note 87 are a whole batch of notes by me listing
    venues, dates, times - could I enquire why you're so desperate to know
    about meadowlands are the MAncs going to play there soon or what?
    
    I can't believe Wales are only 27th when they've had to play mightier
    teams than Egypt! still as long as we're above Scotland it's ok.
    
    i do think the ranking is pretty damn silly I mean England arrange
    some games againsty weak oppositions such as West germany, brazil,
    Holland, etc do their level best to lose as many as possible and
    still get ranked above the faroe Islands (:==:)
     
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

�   somewhere deep in note 87 are a whole batch of notes by me listing
�   venues, dates, times - could I enquire why you're so desperate to know
�   about meadowlands are the MAncs going to play there soon or what?
 
I found that last week, but it only said NY/NJ and I wanted to confirm that
the stadium was Meadowlands as the Aunt only lives down the road.

�@

    Brian,
    
    I'll be commuting between Foxboro and D.C in the early rounds and 
    New York is in the middle so if you're planning on staying there and then 
    seeing the irish games up at Foxboro then nearer the time we'll have to 
    arrange a watering hole to meet and discuss football.
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.wicks

    
    
    Brian
    
    Tell your aunt we are all coming ,make sure she has the box-room 
    done up 8-)8-)
    
    
    
                                    Liam
    

RE: .60

>and then seeing the Irish games up at Foxboro.

	Is that where we will be playing?


	Is there anyway I can see the game here in Basingstoke on Wednesday
	between Ireland and Lithuania?

	Sean.

>       Colombian fans turned perhaps the biggest triumph in the history of
>thenational soccer team into a tragedy when their victory celebrations
>turned violent across the country.
>       At least 14 people died in raucous street celebrations after the
>Colombian team qualified for the 1994 World Cup finals with a 5-0
>victory Sunday over Argentina.
>       Police said Monday at least 60 other people were injured in
>accidents, street fights and other isolated incidents across the
>country.
>       The victory in Buenos Aires left Colombia in first place in the South
>American qualifying Group A with 10 points from six games.
>       Argentina, which finished second, will meet Australia in a playoff
>with the winner advancing to the Cup final to be held next June in the
>United States. Argentina advanced to the playoff after Paraguay only
>managed a 2-2 tie with Peru.
>       Colombian President Cesar Gaviria joined in the festivities with a
>radio and television address.
>       ``It's one of the best teams in the world and we'll prove it in the
>United States,'' he said.
>       Sunday's victory was Colombia's second in two games against
>Argentina. The team beat their South American rival 2-1 in Barranquilla
>two weeks ago, ending Argentina's 33-game, three-year unbeaten run.
>       Argentine manager Alfio Basile attributed the defeat to a superior
>Colombian side.
>       ``We had 33 famous games, we won the Copa America twice, and well,
>the sad reality is that Colombia beat us in two games. The explanations
>would be too many to number ... the only truth is that we were beaten by
>a far superior rival,'' Basile said.
>       Elsewhere, in Belo Horizonte, Brazil continued its recovery after a
>slow start, beating Venezuela 4-0 and moving ahead of Bolivia in South
>American qualifying Group B on goal difference.
>       Brazil needs a tie with Uruguay Sept. 19 in Rio de Janeiro's Maracana
>Stadiun to secure a place in the World Cup finals.
>       Bolivia, which won its first five games then lost 6-0 to Brazil last
>week, rested Sunday.
>       In upcoming World Cup qualifying matches to be played Wednesday
>around Europe, Switzerland visits Scotland in Group One; England will
>host Poland in Group Two; the Republic of Ireland hosts Lithuania,
>Denmark visits Albania and Northern Ireland hosts Latvia in Group Three;
>Wales hosts Czechoslovakia and the Faroe Islands hosts Romania in Group
>Four; Hungary hosts Russia and Iceland hosts Luxembourg in Group Five;
>and Bulgaria hosts Sweden and Finland hosts France in Group Six.
>                              Group One
>       At Aberdeen, Scotland, Switzerland pays a visit knowing a win would
>virtually secure its first finals appearance since 1966. With seven
>matches played and three to go -- one of them against winless Estonia --
>the Swiss lead the group with 12 points, two more than Portugal and
>Italy and four more than Scotland.
>       And if they do make it to the U.S., one major German insurance
>company will not be sharing the celebration. The Swiss Soccer
>Association had promised each player a $34,000 bonus for qualifying and
>took out a million franc insurance policy to cover this eventuality.
>                              Group Two
>       At London, England's World Cup future is on the line against Poland.
>After a nightmare Spring week which yielded a single point from a
>fortuitous 1-1 draw in Poland and a 2-0 defeat in Norway, the English
>must beat the Poles to have any realistic chance of making it to the U.
>S. Even then it would probably still need to draw in Holland and then
>hope to put enough past San Marino to scrape through on goal difference.
>       Norway leads what is still a wide open group with 12 points from
>seven games and looks likely to reach the finals for the first time.
>Still in contention are England and Holland with nine points from seven
>games and Poland (eight from five). An loss by England would equal its
>worst ever run of seven matches without victory in 1958.
>                             Group Three
>       At Dublin, Ireland entertains Lithuania knowing a win will almost
>certainly be enough to reach the World Cup finals. Unbeaten Ireland tops
>the group with 15 points from nine games, followed by Denmark (14 from
>nine) and Spain (13 from nine). Lithuania, which will be without star
>defender Romas Mazeikis, who broke his hand and will be out for two
>weeks, has seven points from 11 games. Among its six defeats was a 2-0
>home loss to the Irish in June.
>       At Tirana, Denmark plays Albania knowing it needs to win to keep the
>pressure on its Group Three rivals. Spain hosts Denmark in a final
>qualifier Nov.17 but the situation could be settled by then if either
>side fails to gain maximum points from its games against the lesser
>teams in the group.
>       Also in Group Three, Northern Ireland will host Latvia in Belfast.
>                             Group Four
>       At Cardiff, Wales has a chance to reach the World Cup finals for the
>first time since 1958 and can take a giant step by beating the
>Representation of Czech and Slovaks. Wales will advance if it can follow
>victories over the RCS with triumphs at home against Cyprus against
>Romania.
>       The RCS is currently third in the standings with nine points, behind
>leader Belgium (14) and Romania (9) and ahead of Wales (9) on goal
>difference. Wales and the RCS drew 1-1 in Prague in May and since then
>the RCS has hammered Romania 5-2 and both sides won 3-0 in the Faroes.
>       At Totfir, Faroe Islands, Romania will go looking for goals against
>one of Europe's weakest teams. Romania has a tenuous hold on second
>place, ahead of Wales and the RCS on goal difference. Romania beat the
>Faroers, who trail the standings after nine defeats in nine games, 7-0
>in Bucharest last year.
>                             Group Five
>       At Budapest, with his team already safely through to the World Cup
>finals, Russian coach Pavel Sadyrin is using the upcoming qualifier in
>Hungary to experiment with some new players. Four players were invited
>to the team's training camp for the first time while five leading
>players, including Moscow Spartak stars Dmitri Radchenko and Dmitri
>Popov, will not be traveling.
>       Also in Group Five, Iceland will host Luxembourg at Reykjavik.
>                              Group Six
>       At Sofia, a combination of injuries, suspension and personal disputes
>means Bulgaria will be without seven regular players against Sweden.
>Bulgaria is currently third in the group standings with nine points,
>behind Sweden and France, who are tied with 11 points. The top two teams
>qualify for the 1994 World Cup finals.
>       Also in Group Six, Finland will host France at Helsinki.

                                                         best regards.....

                                                             -dave-

Sean,
	If you look in the group three topic it says it will be on UTV

	Did that just after I wrote the last reply, cheers anyway.

    
    Okay no guarantees but I think this is accurate.  Updated since the
    last post.  The tables have come from a variety of sources.
    

World Cup 1994 qualifiers so far

1	U.S.A  (host)
2	Germany (defending)
3	Mexico
4	Russia
5	Greece
6       Colombia

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=





	WORLD CUP 1994 - EUROPE QUALIFIERS
        12 Teams (First 2 of each group) + Germany (Defending)

                Group 1
                                   GP    W    D    L    GF    GA   Pts  MxPts
                Switzerland         8    5    3    0    19     5    13   17
                Portugal            7    4    2    1    14     4    10   16
                Italy               7    4    2    1    15     6    10   16
                Scotland            8    3    3    2    11    10     8   14
                Malta               9    1    1    7     3    21     3    4
                Estonia             7    0    1    6     1    17     1    7


		Group1
                        22.09.93: Estonia-Italy
                        13.10.93: Portugal-Switzerland
                        13.10.93: Italy-Scotland
                        10.11.93: Portugal-Estonia
                        17.11.93: Italy-Portugal
                        17.11.93: Malta-Scotland
                        17.11.93: Switzerland-Estonia



                Group 2
                                   GP    W    D    L    GF    GA   Pts  MxPts
                Norway              7    5    2    0    20     3    12   18
                England             8    4    3    1    19     6    11   15
                Netherlands         7    3    3    1    17     8     9   15
                Poland              6    3    2    1     8     6     8   16
                Turkey              8    1    1    6     7    17     3    7
                San Marino          8    0    1    7     1    32     1    5


		Group 2
                        22.09.93: Norway-Poland
                        22.09.93: San Marino-Netherlands
                        13.10.93: Netherlands-England
                        13.10.93: Poland-Norway
                        27.10.93: Turkey-Poland
                        10.11 93: Turkey-Norway
                        16.11.93: San Marino-England
                        17.11.93: Poland-Netherlands




                Group 3
                                   GP    W    D    L    GF    GA   Pts  MxPts
                Ireland            10    7    3    0    17     2    17   21
                Denmark            10    6    4    0    14     1    16   20
                Spain               9    5    3    1    18     2    13   19
                N. Ireland         10    5    2    3    13    11    12   16
                Lithuania          12    2    3    7     8    21     7    7
                Latvia             12    0    5    7     4    21     5    5
                Albania            11    1    2    8     5    21     4    6

                Group 3
                        22.09.93: Albania-Spain
                        13.10.93: Denmark-N. Ireland
                        13.10.93: Ireland-Spain
                        17.11.93: N. Ireland-Ireland           
                        17.11.93: Spain-Denmark
      

                Group 4
                                   GP    W    D    L    GF    GA   Pts  MxPts
                Belgium             8    7    0    1    15     3    14   18
                Romania             8    5    1    2    25    10    11   15
                Czechoslovakia      8    3    4    1    18     9    10   14
                Wales               8    4    2    2    16    10    10   14
                Cyprus              8    2    1    5     8    13     5    9
                Faroe Islands      10    0    0   10     1    38     0    0

		Group 4
                        13.10.93: Romania-Belgium
                        13.10.93: Wales-Cyprus
                        27.10.93: Czechoslovakia-Cyprus
                        17.11.93: Wales-Romania
                        17.11.93: Belgium-Czechoslovakia


                Group 5
                                   GP    W    D    L    GF    GA   Pts  MxPts
                Russia              7    5    2    0    15     3    12   14
                Greece              6    4    2    0     6     1    10   14
                Iceland             8    3    2    3     7     6     8    8
                Hungary             7    1    1    5     5    11     3    5
                Luxembourg          6    0    1    5     1    13     1    5
                Yugoslavia          FIFA disqualified



		Group 5
                        12.10.93: Luxembourg-Greece
                        27.10.93: Hungary-Luxembourg
                        17.11.93: Greece-Russia

                Group 6
                                   GP    W    D    L    GF    GA   Pts  MxPts
                Sweden              8    5    2    1    15     5    12   16
                France              8    6    1    1    14     5    13   17
                Bulgaria            8    4    2    2    13     8    10   14
                Austria             7    3    0    4    12    10     6   12
                Finland             8    1    1    6     4    14     3    7
                Israel              7    0    2    5     5    21     2    8


		Group 6
                        13.10.93: France-Israel
                        13.10.93: Bulgaria-Austria
                        13.10.93: Sweden-Finland
                        27.10.93: Israel-Austria
                        10.11.93: Austria-Sweden
                        10.11.93: Israel-Finland
                        17.11.93: France-Bulgaria




	Asia  (top 2 advance to WC94)
     =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


                                G   W  D  L   GF  GA   Pts   MxPts
                Japan           0   0  0  0    0   0    0     20
                South Korea     0   0  0  0    0   0    0     20
                North Korea     0   0  0  0    0   0    0     20
                Iraq            0   0  0  0    0   0    0     20
                Iran            0   0  0  0    0   0    0     20
                Saudi Arabia    0   0  0  0    0   0    0     20

                ASIA Round 2 (to be held in Doha, Qatar)

                93/10/15 North Korea    Iraq
                93/10/15 Saudi Arabia   Japan

                93/10/16 Iran           South Korea

                93/10/18 North Korea    Saudi Arabia
                93/10/18 Japan          Iran

                93/10/19 Iraq           South Korea 

                93/10/21 North Korea    Japan

                93/10/22 Iran           Iraq
                93/10/22 South Korea    Saudi Arabia

                93/10/24 Iraq           Saudi Arabia

                93/10/25 Japan          South Korea
                93/10/25 Iran           North Korea

                93/10/28 South Korea    North Korea
                93/10/28 Saudi Arabia   Iran
                93/10/28 Iraq           Japan

                
 

	 AFRICAN ZONE STANDINGS (Group winners advance to WC94)
	--------------------------------------------------------

                African FINAL Group A
                -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

                                P W D L  F  A Pts  Maxpts
                Cote d'Ivoire   3 2 1 0  4  2  5     7
                Nigeria         2 1 0 1  5  3  2     6
                Algeria         3 0 1 2  2  6  1     3



                African FINAL Group B
                -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

                                P W D L  F  A Pts  Maxpts
                Morocco         3 2 0 1  5  3  4     6
		Zambia          2 1 1 0  2  1  3     8
                Senegal         3 0 1 2  1  4  1     3


                African FINAL Group C
                -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

                                P W D L  F  A Pts  Maxpts
                Cameroon        3 2 0 1  4  2  4     6
		Guinea          3 1 0 2  4  4  2     4
                Zimbabwe        2 1 0 1  1  3  2     6


		09/25/93 Nigeria	Cote d'Ivoire
		09/26/93 Zambia		Senegal
		09/26/93 Zimbabwe	Guinea
		10/08/93 Algeria	Nigeria
		10/10/93 Morocco	Zambia
		10/10/93 Cameroon	Zimbabwe


                
              
                        

	CONCACAF/OCEANIA (winner plays Argentina)
	--------------------------------------------------------------


		7/31/93 Canada	2-1 Australia

		14/8/93 Australia 2 Canada 1 aet (Australia win 4-1 on pens)


            1993 South America WC'94 Qualifying Matches

(Home team first)      

Group A

Aug.  1 -- Colombia vs. Paraguay	0-0
Aug.  1 -- Peru vs. Argentina		0-1  

Aug.  8 -- Paraguay vs. Argentina	1-3  
Aug.  8 -- Peru vs. Colombia		0-1

Aug. 15 -- Paraguay vs. Peru		2-1
Aug. 15 -- Colombia vs. Argentina	2-1  

Aug. 22 -- Paraguay vs. Colombia	1-1
Aug. 22 -- Argentina vs. Peru		2-1

Aug. 29 -- Argentina vs. Paraguay	0-0
Aug. 29 -- Colombia vs. Peru		4-0

Sep.  5 -- Peru vs. Paraguay		2-2
Sep.  5 -- Argentina vs. Colombia	0-5

                G  W  D  L   F   A   P
Colombia        6  4  2  0   13  2   10
Argentina       6  3  1  2   7   9   7
Paraguay        6  1  4  1   6   7   6
Peru            6  0  1  5   4   12  0



                             Group B

July 18 -- Venezuela vs. Bolivia	1-7
July 18 -- Ecuador vs. Brazil		0-0

July 25 -- Venezuela vs. Uruguay	0-1
July 25 -- Bolivia vs. Brazil		2-0

Aug.  1 -- Uruguay vs. Ecuador		0-0
Aug.  1 -- Venezuela vs. Brazil		1-5

Aug.  8 -- Bolivia vs. Uruguay   	3-1
Aug.  8 -- Ecuador vs. Venezuela	5-0

Aug. 15 -- Uruguay vs. Brazil		1-1
Aug. 15 -- Bolivia vs. Ecuador		1-0

Aug. 22 -- Bolivia vs. Venezuela	7-0
Aug. 22 -- Brazil vs. Ecuador		2-0

Aug. 29 -- Uruguay vs. Venezuela	4-0
Aug. 29 -- Brazil vs. Bolivia		6-0

Sep.  5 -- Ecuador vs. Uruguay		0-1
Sep.  5 -- Brazil vs. Venezuela		4-0

                G  W  D  L   F   A   P
Brazil          7  4  2  1  18   4  10
Bolivia         6  5  0  1  20   8  10
Uruguay         6  3  2  1   8   4   8
Ecuador         6  1  2  3   5   4   4
Venezuela       7  0  0  7   2  33   0

Sep. 12 -- Uruguay vs. Bolivia
Sep. 12 -- Venezuela vs. Ecuador

Sep. 19 -- Brazil vs. Uruguay
Sep. 19 -- Ecuador vs. Bolivia

    Gary,
    
    great work only two errors I could spot
    europe group 1 - scotland have 9 points
    south america group a - peru finished with one point
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

    
    The plot thickens in South America.  Uruguay had a very controversial
    victory over Bolivia and Venezuela shocked Ecuador in a meaningless
    game.
    
    Bolivia need a draw in Guadaquil to qualify.  A draw v Uruguay will do
    Brazil.
    
    Sep. 12 -- Uruguay vs. Bolivia          2-1
    Sep. 12 -- Venezuela vs. Ecuador        2-1
    
                    G  W  D  L   F   A   P
    Brazil          7  4  2  1  18   4  10
    Bolivia         7  5  0  2  21  10  10
    Uruguay         7  4  2  1  10   5  10
    Ecuador         7  1  2  3   6   6   4
    Venezuela       8  1  0  7   4  34   0
    
    
    Sep. 19 -- Brazil vs. Uruguay
    Sep. 19 -- Ecuador vs. Bolivia
    
    Gary.

    
    
	3 important results from the African qualifiers over the weekend.
    
    	Nigeria 4 Ivory Coast 1 (Nigeria need a draw away to Algeria to
    progress.  They should qualify)
    
    	Zimbabwe 1 Guinea 0 (Zimbabwe need to win in Cameroon, not much
    chance of that.  Anyone know who Grobbelaer wasn't called up.  Have
    they thrown in the towel already?)
    
    	Zambia 4 Senegal 0 (Zambia need a draw in Morocco.  I'd still make
    Morocco slight favourites here.)
    
    
	 AFRICAN ZONE STANDINGS (Group winners advance to WC94)
	--------------------------------------------------------

    
    
                African FINAL Group A
                -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

                                P W D L  F  A Pts  Maxpts
                Cote d'Ivoire   4 2 1 1  5  6  5     5
                Nigeria         3 2 0 1  9  4  4     6
                Algeria         3 0 1 2  2  6  1     3



                African FINAL Group B
                -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

                                P W D L  F  A Pts  Maxpts
		Zambia          3 2 1 0  6  1  5     7
                Morocco         3 2 0 1  5  3  4     6
                Senegal         4 0 1 3  1  8  1     1


                African FINAL Group C
                -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

                                P W D L  F  A Pts  Maxpts
                Cameroon        3 2 0 1  4  2  4     6
                Zimbabwe        3 2 0 1  2  3  4     6
		Guinea          4 1 0 3  4  5  2     2 


		10/08/93 Algeria	Nigeria
		10/10/93 Morocco	Zambia
		10/10/93 Cameroon	Zimbabwe


                
    Gary.          

	How did zambia do over the weekend???

    
    >How did zambia do over the weekend???
    
    They lost 1-0 are are out.  Morocco qualify.
    
    See 87.last for full ist of group standings.
    
    Gary.

    
    
    Zambia have put in a protest about the ref.......
    
    Hoping for a re-match.

    I heard on the sports news this morning that Sadam Hussan has put his 
    eldest son incharge of the Iraqi football team for the World Cup. This 
    could be just a rumour but if not it will present some interesting visa
    applications.
    
    Fintan.

    
    No rumour, at least not according to sky news..... they show brief
    highlights of the Iraqi's leading 2:0 but losing 2:3 after having a man
    sent off (poor blighter.....).
    
    Iraq vs Iran is tomorrow I believe!
    
    JBG

 Yesterday the Sunday Sport published the telephone number of the German
 who reffed the Holland - England. I am sure noone called him.

 Stuart
 

    damn, we needed a ref yesterday

re: 76

Why were you reading the Sport?

Mike

         <<< Note 144.78 by FORTY2::FOWLERM "Come the glorious day" >>>
                              -< You sad man... >-

>re: 76

>Why were you reading the Sport?

>Mike


 I didn't. I was listening to GLR.

 Stuart

I'll believe you. 8-)

Many apologies.

Mike

    
    Over 300 people phoned apparently. But as it was his office number
    nobody managed to get hold of him.
    
    All this according to the `Blick' (The swiss version of the Sun)

    I believe that it is coming down to the wire in the Asian qualifying
    group. Does anyone has a status of the game played so far and who is
    still inthe running?
    The newspapers here in the U.S are focusing on the chances of Irak to
    qualify.... I have to admit that it would create a sticky situation if
    Irak would qualify ....
    
    Jacques

    jacques,
    
    See 87.last
    
    regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

    
    RE:.82
    >I have to admit that it would create a sticky situation if 
    Irak would qualify ....
    
    Even more so if Suddam appoints his nephew as Team Manager.
    
    Se�n
    

    His son - the one that murdered his bodyguard a year or two back
    is already the president of the FA.
    
    bert Millichip would never do such a thing.
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

Brilliant....

Iraq qualify, the Americans decide to be all snotty about the Gulf War and ban
them, and we (England) get their place because we beat Germany 4-2 in the 1966
World Cup final, and helped smack the Iraqis in the Holy Oil Crusade! 8-)

It's all true you know.

Mike

	Sadly, none of Iraq, Iran or North Korea made it through to
	the finals, so we've missed the fun that would have resulted
	from their teams trying to get U.S. visas.

	Tony

    When is the second leg of the Aussies vs Agentinians game to be played?
    
    I thought that I read somewhere November 13...
    
    Jacques
    

    
    Wednesday night...
    
    Dave...

    Bosnich and Zelic may be out, but the fact is we have to score to go through
    anyway after a 1-1 draw in Sydney. With attacking players of the calibre 
    of Frank Farina, Aurelio Vidmar and Robbie Slater, there's every chance
    in the world of getting an early goal and then seeing them choke with
    the crowd on their backs. This time there'll be no calling for Maradona
    because he'll be out there choking with the rest of them.
    
    Can anyone confirm or deny that an American newspaper reported that
    because Australia lost to Colo Colo of Chile last week, it means that
    Colo Colo have qualified for US '94??????
    
    Ica  

    The game is live on Sky Sports at 11:30 pm

    Quote from a member of the World Cup organizers in the U.S.
    
    "There were three teams which, if they had qualified, would have
    caused us logistical problems: Iran, Iraq and England."
    
    Tony

    Has anybody already tried to second guess the FIFA and come up with
    seedings before Las Vegas and December 19... here's my cut:
    
    TOP SEED		SECOND		THIRD		FOURTH
    
    Germany		Netherlands   	Norway		Saudi Arabia
    Brazil		Ireland		Mexico		Nigeria
    Italy		Sweden		Bulgaria	Bolivia
    Argentina		Spain		Romania		Greece
    USA			Russia		Switzerland	Morocco
    Belgium		Colombia	Cameroon	South Korea
    
    Germany will play in Chicago, USA in Detroit/LA, Ireland in Boston,
    Italy in New York/New Jersey, Mexico in LA.
    
    Jacques	

    
    Hi Jaques,
    
    Your seeding seems based on the teams current strength. FIFA will
    probably be far stricter and base the seedings on results in the two
    preceding World Cups. For example, there are 6 teams including Norway
    and Switzerland who have not played in the World Cup for a  long time
    (otr ever) and they will no doubt end up in group 4 etc. 
    
    There's a US World Cup note nearby in which this is currently being
    discussed. 
    
    cheers,
    
    	Stefan

    see note 87.* for lots of discussion

    
    News FLASH
    
    	The first World CUP trophy has been stolen.
    
    	Can anyone give more details etc. I believe that the CUP was won
    three times in succession by a team of miners (men from down the pits,
    not Children!) The captain was Dennis Waterman and the whole team wore
    flat caps, hobnail boots and sported droopy moustaches.
    
    SteveP

    
    It was won twice by a county Durham team, called West Auckland. They
    beat Juventus, twice in italy. The last time being in 1910 (think the
    first time was 1909 or 1908). Anyway, the trophy - the Sir Stanley
    Lipton trophy was stolen from it's display case in the West Auckland 
    social club yesterday. Probably stolen to order, as nothing else was 
    taken. The club is deciding whether it can afford to offer a reward for
    it's return. Tyne Tees did make a film about the original team and
    Dennis Waterman did star in it.
    
    Incidently, the team was so poor when they won the cup for the last
    time, that they had to sell it immediately so that they could pay the
    fare home from Italy. I don't know how they got it back though.
    
    
    Tim (boringfactsRus)

    The landlady of the pub in Auckland paid for the air fares of the
    players,and `cos they were so poor they paid for the fares in kind
    by giving the trophy to the pub. It had been there ever since `til it
    was nicked. It was insured for thousands,but obviously it`s priceless
    to those who care.
    
    The regulars are said to be gutted by the event. 
     
                      

    re: .99
    
    I'm not sure there was a regular air service to Turin in 1909! (-:
    
    Jamie

    
    I was thinking that also.
    
    Se�n

Maybe they went by balloon. I know that the Monaco team, who were as rich back
then as they are now, travelled to european matches in their own team balloon,
or zeppelin or whatever you call them.

Gordon. 

    
    Latest World Rankings.
    
    Current	Team		Previous
    =======	====		========
    	
    1)  	Germany 	(1)  
    2)  	Brazil 		(3)
    3)  	Netherlands 	(7)
    4)  	Denmark 	(6)
    5)  	Norway 		(4)
    6)  	Spain 		(5)
    7)  	Italy 		(2)
    8) 		Switzerland 	(12)
    9)  	Argentina 	(8)
    10)	 	Sweden 		(9)
    11) 	Ireland 	(10)
    12) 	England 	(11)
    13) 	Russia 		(14)
    14) 	France 		(15)
    15) 	Nigeria 	(18)
    16) 	Uruguay 	(17)
    17) 	Mexico 		(16)
    18) 	Romania 	(13)
    19) 	Portugal 	(jt20)
    20) 	Colombia 	(jt20)
    21) 	USA 		(22)
    22) 	Egypt 		(26)
    23) 	Bulgaria 	(31)
    24) 	Poland 		(28)
    25) 	Scotland 	(24)
    26) 	Belgium 	(25)
    27) 	Wales 		(29)
    28) 	Marocco 	(30)
    29) 	Cameroon 	(23)
    30) 	Zambia 		(27)
    
    
    	Wouldn't take much from these lists.

    re : How did England get to 12th spot.... I would have though they
    would have been much lower.. unless these rankings were gauged by the
    amount of swearing the manager did on the touch line!! ;-)
    
    Rick.

    Presumably friendlies count double.
    
    Paul.
    

    
    What times (GMT) are the games on?? Are they pub times?
    
    Tony
    
    

    Some are on at 5.00 ish and some at about 12.30am ish, I think Tony.
    
    Opening game is on about 8.00pm ish.
    
    
    
    
    /GAry

    Yeah... we should meet up somewhere for a few pints... I can bring my
    wonderful Leeds top.. & help support Gary Kelly! :->
    
    Rick.

    I'll bring my Juventus top and help support Roberto Baggio! :->
    
    
    
    
    /GAry

    Here's the full list of times guys, pity about the ones scheduled for
    11:30 at night.
    
    My plans for the Ireland games...
    
    17/06/94	Some Basingstoke Bar
    24/06/94	Some Dublin Bar
    28/06/94	East Rutherford :-)
    05/07/94	Atlantic City Bar 
    10/07/94	Atlantic City Bar
    13/07/94	Atlantic City Bar
    17/07/94	Atlantic City Bar
    
    What? Me? Optimistic? Never.....
    
    
    Date						GMT
    ====						===
    17/06/94	Germany        	v  Bolivia            	19:00
    17/06/94    Spain          	v  Republic of Korea  	23:30
    18/06/94	United States  	v  Switzerland  	15:30
    18/06/94	Italy   	v  Ireland         	20:00
    18/06/94    Colombia       	v  Romania      	23:30
    19/06/94	Belgium      	v  Morocco      	16:30
    19/06/94	Norway  	v  Mexico          	20:00
    19/06/94    Cameroon       	v  Sweden        	23:30
    20/06/94    Brazil         	v  Russia        	20:00
    20/06/94	Netherlands  	v  Saudi Arabia 	23:30
    21/06/94	Argentina  	v  Greece           	16:30
    21/06/94	Germany        	v  Spain          	20:00
    21/06/94	Nigeria    	v  Bulgaria         	23:30 
    22/06/94	Switzerland    	v  Romania      	20:00
    22/06/94    United States  	v  Colombia     	23:30
    23/06/94	Italy   	v  Norway          	20:00
    23/06/94	Bolivia  	v  Republic of Korea  	23:30
    24/06/94	Ireland 	v  Mexico          	16:30
    24/06/94	Brazil         	v  Cameroon      	20:00
    24/06/94	Russia         	v  Sweden        	23:30
    25/06/94	Belgium      	v  Netherlands  	16:30
    25/06/94	Morocco      	v  Saudi Arabia 	16:30
    25/06/94    Argentina  	v  Nigeria          	20:00
    26/06/94	Greece     	v  Bulgaria         	16:30
    26/06/94    United States  	v  Romania      	20:00
    26/06/94    Switzerland    	v  Colombia     	20:00
    27/06/94	Germany  	v  Republic of Korea  	20:00
    27/06/94	Bolivia  	v  Spain              	20:00
    28/06/94	Italy   	v  Mexico          	16:30
    28/06/94	Ireland 	v  Norway          	16:30
    28/06/94	Brazil         	v  Sweden        	20:00
    28/06/94    Russia         	v  Cameroon      	20:00
    29/06/94	Morocco      	v  Netherlands  	16:30
    29/06/94	Belgium      	v  Saudi Arabia         16:30
    30/06/94	Argentina  	v  Bulgaria         	23:30
    30/06/94	Greece     	v  Nigeria          	23:30
    
    		SECOND ROUND
    		============
    
    02/07/94	WinnersC	v  3rdplacequal		17:00
    02/07/94	RunnersUpA	v  RunnersUpC		20:30
    03/07/94	RunnersUpB	v  RunnersUpF		17:00
    03/07/94	WinnersA	v  3rdplacequal		20:30
    04/07/94	WinnersF	v  RunnersUpE		16:00
    04/07/94    WinnersB        v  3rdplacequal         19:30
    05/07/94	WinnersD	v  3rdplacequal		17:00
    05/07/94	WinnersE	v  RunnersUpD		20:30
    	
    		QUARTERFINALS
    		=============
    
    09/07/94	Foxboro					16:00
    09/07/94	Dallas					19:30
    10/07/94    East Rutherford				16:00
    10/07/94    Stanford				19:30
    
    		SEMIFINALS
    		==========
    
    13/07/94	East Rutherford				20:00
    13/07/94	Pasadena				23:30
    
    		THIRD PLACE
    		===========
    
    16/07/94	Pasadena				19:30
    
    		FINAL
    		=====
    
    17/07/94	Pasadena				19:30
    		

    
    I can understand the final pool games being held at the same time but
    it escapes me why the middle matches of Group F (BelVHol and SA v Mor)
    are on at the same time ??? The chance to see the very first All Arabic
    game in the World Cup will obviously be lost on the relatively more
    attractive Low Countries Derby....
    
    They may get extra teams to the finals from outside S.America and
    Europe but they still seem to be pushed into the background....
    
    Dezzz.
    

    RE.-1
    What a b%$#^%$t about being pushed to the background! If you want to
    see the game, buy a ticket!
    
    And what *do* you mean with 'relatively' more attractive?
    
    Marcel

  Marcel there are a lot of folks who can't attend the WC, but will be watching
it on TV, I can understand the comments from Dez and I also would love to see
the Arab game live... Naturally enough for a Belgian or Dutch fan your game is
a lot more attractive, but for a group neutral fan its just 'relatively'
more attractive. It's not that hard to understand now is it????

                                                            -dave-

    Marcel, I think he means that he would like to see both and that the tv
    companies will opt for The Netherlands v Belgium. There isn't any valid
    reason why these two games should be on at the same time, in fact, I'm
    surprised that they are, given the power of the tv companies over in
    the US.
    
    Met friendlijk groetjes,
    
    Paul.
    

    
    Marcel,
    
    	you're diplomacy is wasted here in DEC.
    
    JBG

    
    Well need I say any more Marcel.....
    
    The fact is that I scamper in and out of the conference as we are in
    the closing of one of the most critical quarters of the company's
    history. Thus I will not be able to attend the live event. If I had a
    choice of seeing a game live that's different.
    
    I assume you are not a salesman !!!!
    
    Dezzz. 

      <<< Note 144.112 by ELIS::BOEREN "I aim to please. Then I fire!" >>>
                        -< The nerves of some people! >-

The nerves of some people?????? Look who talking!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't understand your reaction, Dezz was just expressing his feelings in
a normal way and you completely try to whipe him out.

You're such a nice guy :-(

T_

 Re last...   Ton your title sounds real funny although I think I know what
Eikel means... anyway Maybe you could summarise the Dutch team, their strengths
weakness's etc.. I reckon their biggest problem will be their defence.. Koemann
amd Woulters are slow and the heat will get to them as well. How as the rest
of the team taken to the departure of Guillit?? and the rise and fall of Van der
Basten?????

                                   anyway I wish all your boys 


                                                    -dave-

    Dave,
    
    Re: -1
    >                                   anyway I wish all your boys 
    
    
    would you care to tell us exactly what you want all his boys to do ;-)
    
    Yours expectantly,
    
    Jerry.

   <<< Note 144.119 by KBOMFG::TANNER "Midnight is where the day begins.." >>>
                            -< Sounds funny!!!!!! >-


>> Re last...   Ton your title sounds real funny although I think I know what
>>Eikel means... anyway Maybe you could summarise the Dutch team, their strengths
>>weakness's etc.. I reckon their biggest problem will be their defence.. Koemann
>>amd Woulters are slow and the heat will get to them as well. How as the rest
>>of the team taken to the departure of Guillit?? and the rise and fall of Van der
>>Basten?????
>>
>>                                   anyway I wish all your boys 
>>
>>
>>                                                    -dave-


Dave,

the eikel is always on top so that should explain it all :-)

about the Dutch team, everybody already seems to forgotten Gullit and that's
good in my opinion, van Basten coming back was more of a publicity stunt but
it was funny. Defence has never been our strong point and yes Koeman is very 
slow, the Dutch will probably play with a 3 man defence, the other two will
probably be de Boer, who I don't like so much 'cause he can't be a mean b*****d
when things get tough and he always makes the odd mistake, and van 
Gobbel (runs the 100 in 11.2) or Valkx. Midfield probably will be Jonk, Wouters
and Rijkaard, between midfield and attack Bergkamp will do his tricks and up
front it will be the other de Boer although I prefer van Vossen, in the center
with Roy (in brilliant form lately) and Taument (Overmars has been crap the
last games) on the wings. I think we can make it far into the tournament but
the final? naaah don't think so.

T_  

 oops I got lazy!!!!!  see my title!!!!

    Well, that was obviously the wrong approach.
    
    If I insulted anyone, or hurt anybody's feelings, I apologize!
    Of course, I understand what he meant, and agree with him.
    
    RE.a few back.
    You're right! I'm not a salesman!  :)
    
    RE.T_
    You mean eikel in the friendly way, right?
    You cute zakkenwassertje!   :)
    
    RE.Paul
    Who's been telling you those dutch words?
    Very good, allthough the correct spelling is:
    Met vriendelijke groeten.
    
    RE.-2, I believe.
    Koeman is kind of slow, but I like de Boer in defence. He's not as rude
    as Fr�ser, but he can handle a tough game as well as anybody.
    About Wouters: Are you sure he will play? What about Jonk?
    I do prefer de Boer in the attack. If he doesn't score, Van Vossen can
    always replace him to be used as a crow-bar(sp?).
    
    Marcel.

    Marcel,
    
    I thought it looked wrong. I lived in Eindhoven for two years and
    Utrecht for one. However, my Dutch never progressed very far passed
    "Een pilsje". For some reason every time I tried my Dutch out the shop
    assistant/garage attendant/work colleagues all started speaking English.
    Could never work that one out....??
    
    My big regret is that whilst I was living in Eindhoven I never went to
    see PSV - that was the time '85-87 when Gullit was playing there. I
    missed seeing one of the worlds greatest players in his prime.
    
    Prost,
    
    Paul.
    

    Well, Proost to you too, Paul.
    
    Anyway, if you would only know 1 dutch word, then biertje isn't that
    bad a choice, now is it?  :)
    
    About the dutch people starting to talk english:
    They probably saw/heard you having trouble with the dutch language, so
    (the good people we are) tried to make it easier for you by talking
    english to you, which is sort of our second native language anyway.
    Almost everybody speaks english in Holland. Maybe you should have told
    them not to talk english to you, because you wanted to improve your
    dutch? Well, whatever!  :)
    
    Marcel

    An interesting solution......
    
    
           German soccer boss Berti Vogts has
           challenged England to a football match to decide
           which country should bid for the 2006 World Cup. 
    
           He's reported as saying a friendly between the
           countries would determine the issue once and for
           all, and end the battle of words.

    
    ....reallly !!! Is this for real ????
    
    How about a game of cricket ???!!!
    
    Dezzz.

    How about a game of Twister between Glenn Hoddle & Berti Vogts?

German's luck in football - England, You must loose !

    Heribert,
    
    I think that's exactly why Vogts has suggested it.
    
    
    
             			Stretch.

Noooooooo, it might end up in penalties.


If we're looking for a sport that we could WIN, I wouldn't like to suggest 
cricket either !!  8-)

Perhaps Croquet..........

Mad

    Re last few...
    
    I vote for twister, although not nude if it's gonna be televised (nude
    & drunk being the ONLY way to play it properly!).
    
    How about tiddly winks?
    
    Alen.

    
    cricket...eh...try looking at the Test score  ...Oz....32-4
    
    Dezzz.

    
    The footie game wouldn't work....Germany would insist on wearing white
    shirts and England would insist on Russian linesmen !
    
    Heribert..go back to '66 and tell me about luck & Geoff Hurst....
    
    Auf Weidersehen 
    Treefur