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Conference thebay::joyoflex

Title:	The Joy of Lex
Notice:	A Notes File even your grammar could love
Moderator:	THEBAY::SYSTEM

Created:	Fri Feb 28 1986
Last Modified:	Mon Jun 02 1997
Last Successful Update:	Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:	1192
Total number of notes:	42769

1152.0. "Rules and Exceptions" by GIDDAY::BURT (DPD (tm)) Tue Aug 22 1995 00:10


The rules of spelling and grammar seem to have a number of exceptions.

One I was thinking of today was the old "I before E except after C".
The only exception to the after "c" rule I can think of is the word "weird". 
I'm sure there are others. Any takers?

Chele

T.R	Title	User	Personal Name	Date	Lines
1152.1		HUMANE::soemba.apd.dec.com::RIK	Mostly Harmless	`Tue Aug 22 1995 03:31`	1
	I agree that there should be several more in that vein.
1152.2		TP011::KENAH	Do we have any peanut butter?	`Tue Aug 22 1995 07:40`	8
	Of course rules of spelling have exceptions -- English has a long history of appropriating words from other languages, where different spelling rules might apply; consequently, some of the imported words may not follow the "standard" spelling rules. In addition, words are transliterated from other alphabets and writing systems, and spelling rules are rarely consulted for these transliterations. andrew
1152.3		SMURF::BINDER	Night's candles are burnt out.	`Tue Aug 22 1995 07:49`	6
	"I before E, Except after C, Or when sounded like A, As in neighbor and weigh." And, of course, weird...
1152.4	neither had leisure to seize the weird	RANGER::BRADLEY	Chuck Bradley	`Tue Aug 22 1995 10:38`	10
	this is covered at length, somewhere in here. the form i was taught, long ago: i before e, except after c, or when sounded like a, as in neighbor or weigh. exceptions: neither had leisure to seize the weird thing. there are several more exceptions, and at least one is common enough that it should be added to the mnemonic device above.
1152.5		GIDDAY::BURT	DPD (tm)	`Tue Aug 22 1995 16:38`	7
	Dree me. I thought weird was odd. Chele
1152.6		TP011::KENAH	Do we have any peanut butter?	`Wed Aug 23 1995 07:11`	1
	I assume Chuck means caffeine as the other notable exception.
1152.7		HERON::KAISER		`Wed Aug 23 1995 07:14`	4
	Your absenteeism for the wellbeing of foreign deities is heinous. Forfeit your kaleidoscope immediately for reinstatement! ___Pete
1152.8		PENUTS::DDESMAISONS	person B	`Wed Aug 23 1995 07:57`	3
	with no sleight of hand, i'll add "height" to the list.
1152.9	Honoured more in the breach?	KERNEL::MORRIS	Which universe did you dial?	`Wed Aug 23 1995 08:26`	5
	As this rule seems to have so many exceptions, is it worth anybody teaching it to their heirs? Jon
1152.10	Looking for a ruler	KERNEL::MORRIS	Which universe did you dial?	`Wed Aug 23 1995 08:31`	13
	On a different tack, and this is not a feint.... Can anybody express for me a rule about how one forms a present participle (he writes with fear in his heart that he has exposed himself to ridicule for getting the name of the thing wrong). What I mean is when you take a word like `happen' and turn it into `happening' or a word like `shop' and turn it into `shopping'. What always confuses me is how many consonants to add. Is there a guide other than one of pronunciation? (because, let's face it, English is hardly consistent when it comes to pronunciation). Jon
1152.11	A Few More	WHOS01::BOWERS	Dave Bowers @WHO	`Wed Aug 23 1995 12:47`	4
	rein reign
1152.12		GIDDAY::BURT	DPD (tm)	`Wed Aug 23 1995 16:58`	6
	Thankyou for deigning to add more "ei" exceptions. It was an insomnia-driven query. Chele
1152.13	cheating a little..	AUSSIE::WHORLOW	My Cow is dead!	`Wed Aug 23 1995 19:58`	404
	G'day, From my distionary.dat file... absenteeism agreeing alamein albeit alexei andrei anhwei aniseikonic apartheid arbeitskommando arleigh atheistic atheists basileis beiderbecke beige being beings beirut beismortier bernstein beseige blaustein blenheim bluthenzweig bodenheim bodleian bodyweight boeing brandeis buchheister budieshein budweisers casein cassiopeia ceil ceiling ceilings conceit conceited conceits conceivable conceivably conceive conceived conceives conceiving conseil corneilus counterfeit counterweight creighton deadweight deceit deceitful deceive deceived deceives deceiving decreeing dei deification deify deign deigned deities deity dreiser dreisers durkheim dyeing ei eichmann eidetic eigenvalues eight eighteen eighteenth eighth eighties eighty eileen ein eine einsatzkommandos einstein einsteinian eir eire eisenhower eisler either epstein eyeing fahrenheit featherweight feign feigned feigning feinler feint feis fleeing fleischman fleisher fluorescein foreign foreigner foreigners foreseeing forfeit forfeited freeing freida freight freighter freighters freights freinkel gauleiter geeing gegenschein geiger geisha gemeinschaft gesangverein guggenheim heidegger heidelberg heideman heidenstam heifer height heighten heightened heightening heights heilman heine heinkel heinous heinze heinzes heir heiress heirs heiser heisted heitschmidt herein hereinafter hergesheimer hohlbein holstein homogeneity hopei hotei inconceivable inveigh iodoprotein kaleidoscope karlheinz keine keith keizer kirstein kleiber klein kleinrock kleist kopstein kreisler lateiner leibowitz leiden leigh leighton leila leisure leisurely leitmotif lichtenstein lightweight lorelei louchheim madeira madeleine manderscheid marbleized marbleizing marseilles mattei meinckian meinung meir meisenheimer meister meistersinger merveilleux milstein misperceives monei movei neigh neighbor neighborhood neighborhoods neighboring neighborliness neighbors neil neilson neisse neither neitzbohr nuclei nucleic oneida oppenheim oresteia outweigh outweighed overweight pantheist paperweight peiping perceivable perceive perceived perceives perceiving pharmacopoeia plebeian pompeii poseidon preconceived preisolated prosopopoeia protein proteins queueing receipt receipts receive received receiver receivers receives receiving reich reichenberg reichstag reid reifenrath reign reigned reigning reigns reik reilly reimburse reimburseable reimbursed reimbursement reimbursements reimburses rein reincarnated reindeer reine reined reinforce reinforced reinforcement reinforcements reinforces reinforcing reinhard reinhardt reinitialize reins reinstall reinstated reinstitution reinterpret reinterpreted reintroduces reinvestigation reinvigoration reipublicae reissue reiterate reiterated reiterates reiterating rheims rheinholdt rhinotracheitis ribonucleic rottosei rumscheidt rutstein schleiermacher schweitzer schweitzers schweizer seeing seidel seismic seismograph seismographs seismological seize seized seizing seizure sergei sheik sheila sightseeing simultaneity sleigh sleight sovereign sovereigns sovereignty speidel spontaneity steichen stein steinbecks steinberg steiner steiners steinkerque surfeit surfeited surveillance taipei teitelman their theirs theism theistic therein thorstein tiptoeing transceiver unperceived unveil unveiled veil veiled veiling veils vein veined veining veinous veins vermeil vielleicht volkenstein volksgeist wallenstein wangenheim wegbreit wei weider weidman weigand weigh weighed weighing weighs weight weighted weighting weightlessness weights weighty weil weinberg weinstein weir weird weirdly weirdy weirs weiss weissman weissmuller wellbeing wherein wildenstein wisenheimer zeising zeiss zeitgeist zwei
1152.14		DRDAN::KALIKOW	DIGITAL=DEC: ReClaim TheName&Glory!	`Wed Aug 23 1995 20:28`	3
	Foul! Foul! You're supposedta put each of 'em in a sentence, kinda casual-leik.
1152.15		GIDDAY::BURT	DPD (tm)	`Wed Aug 23 1995 22:03`	4
	AND he's used a distionary! Ollins, Coxford or sumfin. Chele
1152.16		CLPR01::MAILLARD	Denis MAILLARD	`Thu Aug 24 1995 00:55`	3
	With quite a few typos in said distionary... not to mentions those he entered himself. Denis.
1152.17		ONOFRE::SKELLY_JO		`Thu Aug 24 1995 11:37`	29
	Re: .10 > What always confuses me is how many consonants to add. Which is not specifically a verb tense problem, but a problem of suffixation. The rule is: don't double the consonant unless you're adding the suffix to a word that ends in a consonant that is immediately preceded by a short vowel. That at least seems to be a fixed rule. If the final consonant is not immediately preceded by a short vowel, it's never doubled. In the cases where you do have a word that ends in short-vowel + consonant, generally you should double the consonant. Obviously you've discovered an exception, "happening". It seems particularly odd when you consider that "pen" follows the rule and becomes "penning". Still, if you look at other words like "deepening" and "sharpening", there appears to be a pattern to this exception. At first I thought it might be that because the "en" is already an inflection that has been added to another word, one should skip the doubling, but then I considered other words like: "deferring", "referring", "differing", and "suffering", and have concluded that the rule is probably: don't double the consonant in words where the final syllable is unstressed. And then of course, there's perfectly baffling words like "travelling" and "traveling" which are both correct. Polysyllabic words with unstressed final syllables ending in "l" seem particularly prone to this confusion. Apparently the spelling gods just couldn't make up their minds on that one. John
1152.18		SMURF::BINDER	Night's candles are burnt out.	`Thu Aug 24 1995 14:01`	5
	In happen, deepen, and suffer, the e in the second syllable is not a short vowel; it is a neutral, or indeterminate, one. It's represented diacritically by the schwa. (Where's that old Australian VT240 character set when you need it?) This may explain why the terminal consonant is not doubled in these words.
1152.19	more	AUSSIE::WHORLOW	My Cow is dead!	`Thu Aug 24 1995 17:08`	102
	G'day, I can put those words in a distionary.dat file if I like... so there! and it was a distionary I got from some note in this conference many moons ago.... so not my fault if there are misspellings ! and what about THIS lot of *CIE* words then eh! What yer gonna do about this lot of exceptions eh? All are IE after C ... djw ----- agencies ancient anciently ancients autocracies beneficient bourcier bureaucracies cieca coefficient coefficients concierge conscience consciences conscientious conspiracies constituencies contingencies currencies decencies deficiencies deficiency deficient delicacies democracies discrepancies efficiencies efficiency efficient efficiently emergencies exigencies fancied fancier fancies financier francie frequencies glacier glaciers gracie idiocies immediacies inaccuracies inadequacies inconsistencies inefficiency inefficient insufficient insufficiently interscience interspecies juiciest legacies lucien malevolencies malignancies mercier occupancies officielle omniscient policies proficiency proficient prophecies science sciences scientific scientifically scientifique scientist scientists societal societe societies society specie species subspecies sufficiency sufficient sufficiently tendencies tumefaciens unscientific urgencies vacancies
1152.20		GIDDAY::BURT	DPD (tm)	`Thu Aug 24 1995 17:26`	5
	Gee Derek, Your distionary is most impressive. Do you have a matching thisaurus? Chele
1152.21	Thanks for helping (or helpping)	KERNEL::MORRIS	Which universe did you dial?	`Fri Aug 25 1995 05:02`	12
	re: .17 and .18 Thanks very much for the answers which seem to me to provide not only the rule but a way of coping (that must be a long vowel then) with the exceptions too. Now all I need is a rule for determining (wasn't that a short vowel there?) whether a vowel is short or neutral: any offers? (or do I have to take a higher degree in English Language or some sort?). Jon (who has an O-Level grade A in English Language which doesn't seem to help very much).
1152.22	scratch "short" and replace with "not long"	ONOFRE::SKELLY_JO		`Fri Aug 25 1995 13:20`	40
	>Now all I need is a rule for determining (wasn't that a short vowel >there?) whether a vowel is short or neutral I can't help you there. I'm fascinated by language, but I'm not a linguist. I didn't know there was such a thing as a neutral vowel. I'd have to look it up in a dictionary and since my dictionary tells me whether I should double the consonant or not, that action would eliminate the concern. If I were without a dictionary and forced to guess, I'd use the stress test because it seems to work most of the time. I've discovered that the verb "ballot" is a problem, at least according to this fancy dictionary I have. I would expect it to be "balloted" and according to this dictionary it is. So I would also expect it to be "balloting". Unfortunately it's listed as "ballotting", apparently in an attempt to distinguish the verb form from "balloting", which the dictionary identifies as a noun. How's that for confusing? Interesting, though, I just ran this through the notes spell-checker and it rejects "ballotting". It also offered me the word "billeting", and in my dictionary both "billeted" and "billeting" are correct. The stress test works on that one. If you can't hear the stress, you might try this and indeed, this may be a rule that distinguishes short from neutral for all I know. Most of the problems will be with words ending in "en" and "er", so try pronouncing the word with that syllable dropped. For example, "dif'ring", "hap'ning", "suf'ring". If it still sounds like a familiar word, don't double. At least these pronunciations of the word sound familiar to my ear, whereas "def'ring" isn't recognizable to me as "deferring". >helping (or helpping) >coping >determining Whether the vowel is long, short or neutral in these words is irrelevant. You must have a word that at least ends in a vowel + consonant to have to worry about doubling at all. "Help","cope" and "determine" don't meet that condition. John
1152.23		ONOFRE::SKELLY_JO		`Fri Aug 25 1995 14:15`	17
	Hmm, I should probably make clear that by vowel, I don't just mean a kind of letter in the alphabet. For example "i" is a vowel, but in the word "rain" it's part of a diphthong and those don't result in doubled consonants either. So, reiterating and refining my suggestion for the rule: If the word 1) ends in a vowel (not diphthong) followed by one and only one consonant, 2) the vowel is not long and 3) the final syllable is stressed, double the consonant before adding the suffix. I'm not asserting that this rule is 100% correct, but it seems to be working pretty well for me at the moment as I try to come up with examples. John
1152.24		DRDAN::KALIKOW	DIGITAL=DEC: ReClaim TheName&Glory!	`Sat Aug 26 1995 06:28`	6
	Not following this too closely, but phonologically there's something call the "schwa" which signifies a weak voweloid sound. Like the sound make when we pronounce the second "i" in institution, or the second "e" in revelation. Notice that different graphemes are written, but the same "one-size-fits-all" schwa is spoken...
1152.25	Been there, done that.	SMURF::BINDER	Night's candles are burnt out.	`Mon Aug 28 1995 08:12`	5
	Re .24 > "schwa" See .18.
1152.26	Aieee! My only defense is presented below... :-)	DRDAN::KALIKOW	DIGITAL=DEC: ReClaim TheName&Glory!	`Mon Aug 28 1995 09:26`	4
	.24> Not following this too closely, Aieee!!!
1152.27	to buss on a bus	WRKSYS::MACDONALD		`Fri Sep 15 1995 11:20`	5
	Let's try bussing while we're busing. or Let's try bussing while we're bussing. Bruce
1152.28		AUSSIE::WHORLOW	My Cow is dead!	`Sun Sep 17 1995 18:09`	14
	G'day, But that's an easy one.. If you travel by omnibus, you will be busing, if you take power from a bus-bar, you will be bussing or is it the other way round...?? my brain hurts, I think I've sprained it derek
1152.29		GIDDAY::BURT	DPD (tm)	`Sun Sep 17 1995 19:41`	3
	Would an omnibuss be a truly amazing kiss??
1152.30	I've never been in a buss bar.	wook.mso.dec.com::mold.ogo.dec.com::lee	Wook like book with a W	`Sun Sep 17 1995 22:20`	8
	No, omnibuss is a kiss for everyone. A truly amazing kiss would be faloubuss. (At least, that's how I'd say it after receiving it.;-) Wook (a.k.a. The Terse Korean) I'm baaack!