Conference thebay::joyoflex

I've not ever heard of it called a "devil strip" in Australia.  We would 
normally refer to it as a "nature strip".

Chele

	Sidewalk?  Kindly explain.

/Chris.

>	Sidewalk?  Kindly explain.

The pavement, Chris, the concrete, brick or asphalt path for pedestrians,

[In the U.S., of course, the pavement is the concrete or asphalt area for the
automobiles].
                                          Sidewalk
-stephen                                       |
                       Curb   Devil Strip      |        Front Yard (Lawn)
  Street or               V         V          V             V           
  Pavement       Gutter   __ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~-----------~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     V                V  /  |
----------------------__/   |  (Although I have also never heard "Devil strip")
        

    Re .2: You must live in New England. ;-) [One of the major elements of
    culture shock when I moved from Wyoming to Massachusetts was the
    disappearance of sidewalks. Downtown areas might have them, but they
    tended to be rare anywhere else, leaving would-be pedestrians the
    option of hiking through the rock-and-trash-filled-gutters or down the
    middle of the street. And when the streets were narrow (as they so
    often are here), and the snowplows had done their work, the mounds of
    snow would cut into the available street space such that there was
    barely room for cars; bikes and pedestrians were out of luck.
    
    In Wyoming (where, admittedly, none of the towns were built before the
    1800's, so they didn't have any 17th-century town "planning" legacies
    to deal with), nearly every street had wide sidewalks _and_ what we've
    been discussing here as devil-strips (though I never heard that name
    before, and don't recall that we called them anything in particular).
    These served as navigable paths during the good weather, and in winter
    the extra strips provided more space to mound the snow that was
    plowed from the streets and shoveled from the sidewalks. [And nearly
    everybody _did_ shovel their sidewalks. Here, even the downtown
    merchants don't always seem to keep up...]
    
    -b

    re: .4
>    Re .2: You must live in New England. ;-) [One of the major elements of
>    culture shock when I moved from Wyoming to Massachusetts was the
>    disappearance of sidewalks. Downtown areas might have them, but they
>    tended to be rare anywhere else, leaving would-be pedestrians the
>    option of hiking through the rock-and-trash-filled-gutters or down the
>    middle of the street. 
    
    	I went to Framingham 17 years ago for a 2 month training course,
    and since it was 2 months I took my wife and kids. The only way my wife
    could do the shopping was to walk 2 miles along Rt.9 to the nearest
    shops with a young child in a push chair. The car drivers didn't seem
    to understand that during those 2 months we were paying exactly the
    same state taxes for use of the roads that they were. We decided that
    New England was one place we would *never* live, no matter how
    attractive the job.

    .0  Where did you grow up?
    
    In response to the question: I grew up in northern New Jersey, where
    sidewalks exist, both in the cities and the suburbs, and I never heard
    the term "devilstrip."
    
    					andrew

    I've always called it "the verge", or "the grassy verge".  I too
    have never heard of a "devilstrip".  Can we come up with a
    pronunciation corruption pathway from some more ordinary possible
    term, just for fun?
    
    							Ann B.

>    Can we come up with a
>    pronunciation corruption pathway from some more ordinary possible
>    term, just for fun?

    It's from "de veldt" strip, from the Dutch or Afrikaans.

    (veldt = open grasslands of Southern Africa)

    ---Phil

    
    Re .6
    
    I grew up in Cuyahoga Falls, OH.
    
    For those vaguely familiar with Ohio, it's a suburb of Akron.
    
    For those less familiar, it's an hour south of Cleveland.
    
    For those completely unfamiliar with Ohio, it's just over 1/2 way
    from New York to Chicago... B^)
    
    Joe (who's really beginning to wonder where in the world this term
         came from...)

Well, I'm from St. Louis, and my dad always called that the boulevard. 

    
    I've heard that called an "easement," which is a very specific
    application of a very general term. A road's right-of-way is often much
    wider than the actual road, so that grassy verge is usually part of
    the road. The homeowner simply gets to mow it...
    
    For the record, I'm from northern NJ and I've never before heard of
    "devilstrip."
    
    JP

	I was feigning tongue-in-cheek surprise but I didn't
	know the ANSI compliant sequence to so indicate.

	I grew up in New Zealand and now live in France, both places
	where any amenities for pedestrians outside of big towns
	are pretty rare so the subject is not one that received any
	attention during the development of my vocabularies.

	Also schooled in the Queen's English and of course "sard-wok"
	should be re-buffed with the correct terminology i.e. 
	"footpath".

	"Grassy verge" also sounds moderately familiar and acceptable
	but in NZ this usually meant the ungrazed area between the
	(gravel) road and the fenced field where the livestock roamed.
	Where there were footpaths, they did not have this supplementary
	lawn mowing quota.

	Bordering :-) on the same subject, what do you guys call the very 
	inside lane of a motorway or autoroute/highway?  Let me start you
	off with the UK and French versions ;

		- hard shoulder
		- bande d'arret d'urgence

    I checked the New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary for devilstrip...
    
    No reference at all.

    I grew up in Akron, my parents were from Cleveland. We referred to the
    strip as the "devil's strip". I haven't heard that term in probably 30
    years. I'm not sure they even use it northern Ohio anymore. If I think
    about it I'll ask my brother who still lives in that area. I've been
    gone for over 25 years.
    
    Neil.
    
    As far as coming from the "die veldt" it is possible, since there is
    quite a concentration of "Pennsilvania Dutch" and Amish in the area.
    
    -N

    G'day,
    
     re-.a_couple..
    
    Hard shoulder....
    
    My son, then aged about 6 referrred to is as the soft elbow...
    
    Judging bythe actions of some motorists....
    picnic area
    
    derek

    
    Re .14
    
>    I grew up in Akron, my parents were from Cleveland. We referred to the
>    strip as the "devil's strip". I haven't heard that term in probably 30
>    years. I'm not sure they even use it northern Ohio anymore.
    
    It seems to still be in use, at least to some extent.
    
    I checked with my mom, who still lives in Cuyahoga Falls, and she
    checked with her friends.  They all use the term, and one of her
    friends was certain that she learned it growing up in Northern
    California, FWIW.
    
    More interesting was the fact that one of her friend was in the
    middle of a mystery where the term was used, with a note that its
    use is generally limited to Ohio.  People I've asked who grew up
    in Parma and Cincy didn't know the term, though.
    
    Joe
    

    Never heard the term "devilstrip."  As young children, we used to call
    it the parking strip; then, later, I learned (in a different part of
    the country) that it was there called a boulevard.
    
    However, there is a legitimate etymology for the term "devilstrip."  On
    a wooden ship, there is a crack or gap where the deck meets the hull. 
    This gap, which affects the watertightness of the ship in heavy seas,
    is called the devil, and it furnishes us with the phrase "devil to pay
    [and no pitch hot]."  To pay the devil is to fill this gap with a
    mixture of oakum and melted pitch, and the colorful phrase, when not
    used in a nautical connection, means "serious problems [and no ready
    solution]."
    
    So a "devilstrip" is a dividing strip, as the devil divides the deck
    from the hull.

    
    Yet more info for the curious...
    
    Another term I've now heard for the strip is the "right of way".
    That one's from Toledo, so there's at least one more section
    of Ohio that doesn't use the term devil strip.
    
    And the term should be "devil strip", two words, rather than one.
    It just sounded like one word to me, and the term is so infrequently
    used that I never discovered my error.
    
    The book which uses the term, as it so happens, is actually instead
    a story in Alfred Hitchcock's Mystery Magazine, "Murder on the
    Devil Strip", apparently from a recent issue (I'll find out for
    certain soon).  The mystery takes place in Cuyahoga Falls and
    Akron, Ohio, in the 1930-1940 era.
    
    Joe

    Fictionary-wise, I'd by the Dutch etymology - cp stoop (doorstep)
    < Dutch `stoep', also, more generally and less appositely,
    `cookie' < Dutch `kuche' [spelling's a complete guess there].
    
    b

    Well, I grew up in Northern California and never heard the term. 
    Perhaps your mother's friend had friends from Akron who had moved to
    Calif.  We DID have that patch of grass between the street and the
    sidewalk, however; and we referred to it as the "easement".  Which is
    what it was.  In the town where I grew up the water and sewer lines
    were buried under this easement so that the utilities wouldn't have to
    dig up the streets when doing repairs or installations.  Wonder why the
    idea didn't catch on everywhere; I guess it's too sensible.
    
    Consider the Amish connection: an easement is owned by the "state" and
    could be inferred to be "devil's ground" (as opposed to "holy" ground
    owned by the property holder).  Could be related to "giving the Devil
    his due", as well.
    
    So, we have "devil strip", "devil's strip" or could it possibly be
    "devil's trip" (a piece of ground to keep the devil away from your
    door, by tripping him)?
    
    Bill

    
>    Well, I grew up in Northern California and never heard the term. 
>    Perhaps your mother's friend had friends from Akron who had moved to
>    Calif.
    
    Entirely possible, I agree...
    
>    Consider the Amish connection: an easement is owned by the "state" and
>    could be inferred to be "devil's ground" (as opposed to "holy" ground
>    owned by the property holder).  Could be related to "giving the Devil
>    his due", as well.
    
    You know, that explanation makes a lot of sense...
    
    The term isn't in use in Toledo, Cincy, or Cleveland, but is in Akron -
    which is very close to the highest Amish concentration in Ohio.
    
    And in Ohio (or the Akron area, at the very least) the devil strip
    is an easement (though I don't know if all power/sewer/etc lines
    are placed there).
    
    Joe
    

    
    I like Dick Binder's etymology better. But if you're going to pursue
    the Amish connection, you should re-work the linguistic analysis for
    German rather than Dutch (it's really "Pennsylvania Deutch" not
    "Pennsylvania Dutch").
    
    JP

    
    One problem with the Amish thought, though -
    
    The Amish don't have devil strips...
    
    Joe

    In Reading Ma. U.S.A., where I live, I have heard that strip of land
    referred to as "the tree lawn". I have not seen or heard this usage
    anywhere else. But it has a nice sound and the connotations are
    pleasant. And it also happens to be a reasonably accurate denotation as
    well, at least in our town, where there are lots of trees planted in---
    the devil's strip.
    Bruce

    It must be an Akron thing. I was talking with my neighbor yesterday,
    and to my great astonishment she used the term devil-strip as we were
    talking about other things. I was dumbfounded. She grew up in Akron,
    too. I grew up in Pennsylvania and have lived in (southern) Ohio for
    the past 15 years, and I never heard of devil-strip until .0 was
    posted - now my neighbor. The things you learn...
    
    	BD�

    Sounds like a letter to the Akron Historical Society (or whatever)
    would be in order.  
    					andrew

    G'day,
    
     Can't recall seeing this in the stream...
    
    Could devil's strip be a corruption of 'De Ville strip'
    
    as in a Coupe de Ville - a strip belonging to the town?
    
    
    derek

  <<< Note 1113.25 by DYPSS1::DYSERT "Barry - Custom Software Development" >>>
                        -< Gotta be "an Akron-ism" :-) >-

>   and to my great astonishment she used the term devil-strip as we were
>   talking about other things. I was dumbfounded. She grew up in Akron,

  What other things?

  	mikeP

    Re .28 (mikeP)
    
    Sorry to mislead you. We were just talking about a variety of unrelated
    things, as friendly neighbors are wont to do. Her remark about the
    devil-strip came when we were discussing trees that were to have been
    planted between the sidewalk and the street. I mentioned that it would
    have been nice had the developers (of the subdivision) kept their word
    re the trees. She responded something about having trees in the
    devil-strip at her previous home.
    
    	BD�

Re: .17 The Nautical devilstrip

I presume this is also the origin of the phrase "caught between the devil 
and the deep blue sea."

I suppose it's an apt term since the "part of the lawn between the sidewalk 
and the street" (as we used to say in Michigan, still do, I think) in our 
neighborhood had a tendency to accumulate tire ruts from aberrant drivers.

Wook

    Re .30
    
    You presume correctly.  If someone on a wooden ship was between the
    devil and the deep blue sea, he was outside the bulwarks of the ship
    while under weigh, and therefore in peril because, if he was like most
    of his crewmates, he couldn't swim.

    G'day,
    
    minor nit, please indulge me...
    
    -.1
    should be 'under way'. hence 'Make way' for... ie get out of the way
    (motion) of ...
    
    and he would be outboard of the bul'arks over even overboard if
    uncontrolled... tho he could be in a tender, caulking that notorious
    seam, being occasionally submerged by itinerant waves, making the job
    harder... hence being caught...
    
    of course had he become overboard forward of the beam, he would be in
    trouble, as he may be overrun by the vessel, whereas if he fell in
    abaft the beam, he would be merely passed-by. Falling in after the stern
    would leave him floundering and waving, not drowning.
    
    Indeed, those very bul'arks, ov which you speak, could have caused the
    problem, as he lay in the scuppers, against the said bulwarks,
    wondering if he wouldn't be better off holding the gunwale.
    
    
    derek

    .32
    
    > should be 'under way'.
    
    Wrong.  It usually is "under way," but it SHOULD be "under weigh"
    because the original etymology of the phrase refers to the anchor's
    having been weighed (raised).  I am aware that most dictionaries have
    it as "under way," but the truth of the matter is that dictionaries
    report how the language IS BEING USED, not how it SHOULD BE USED. 
    W9NCD lists "under weigh" as an alternative for "under way."

    G'day, 
    
    as at present, I sit corrected.. but I shall confer with my 1937
    edition of the Royal Navy Manual of Seamanship and Nicholl's nautical
    manual this evening.... 
    
    
    but I refer in memory to the Royal Navy (who _should_ know about these
    things) set of rowing orders for boat crews..(double banked boats)
          (you don't toss oars in single banked boats)
    
    Make Ready,
    Standby to toss oars.. Up
    Out oars
    Stand-by to may way
    Give way together....
    
    derek

    As I understand it, Derek, make way and give way are not derived from
    the same root word as under weigh.  Indeed, give way, as meaning to
    commence rowing, is peculiar.  To make way is to prepare to go, as in
    making one's way from here to there.

    G'day,
     Checked the RN Manual, and Nicholl's...
    
    Both consistently use 'way', in definitions and in use.
    
    The Macquarie dictionary also uses 'way', including in special phrases,
    like 'under way'. Derives from OE:ME wag(sp?) , Dutch weg, german, Weg,
    icelandic wir... as I recall.
    
    
    looked up 'under weigh' gave this as meaning a ship in motion and then
    qualifies it as "*special use of weigh".
    
    so I guess we are both right? = truce.. tho I have never seen 'under
    weigh' before - tho of course familiar with the use of 'weighing anchor'.
    
    
    I can only surmise that that the spider that frightened Miss Muffet
    away likely ended up 'under whey'?
    
    derek

    ... all of which reminds me of 'the devil to pay' - a tricky job,
    caulking the devil. In fact isn't there an end to the tag: 'the
    devil to pay and no [something something]' Maybe 'no pitch hot'.
    Ages since I met it, and I've never used it.
    
    The more common 'Hell to pay' owes its life to a gratuitous/fortuitous
    pair of puns (on 'devil' and 'pay').
    
    b
    ps - Or has this all been said before?

    Re .37
    
    > Or has this all been said before?
    
    See .17.  :-)

    In New York City, in the Bronx, there's a a train station called Metro
    North "Spuyten Duyvil" which may or may not have a bearing on this
    question.
    
    Apropos of .8, New York was, of course, settled by Dutch settlers who
    called it New Amsterdam...
    
    Cheers,
    
    Roy