T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
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1106.1 | subject matter | PENUTS::DDESMAISONS | collision of aberrant stars | Fri Jul 01 1994 12:21 | 3 |
|
what's the class?
|
1106.2 | here's some info.... | CNTROL::ROBERTSON | | Fri Jul 01 1994 13:10 | 30 |
|
The class is "Business Writing and Reports, Intensive". That in itself
is probably not much help, huh? Here is some more info that I supplied
in another notes conference:
I guess what might help was the opening lecture. He was explaining how
in 1066, the Battle of Hastings took place. To sum it up, the French
beat the English. Because of this, a lot of English words got their
spelling/meaning from the French as opposed to a German influence (how
that fits in I'm not sure....my guess is that if the French didn't beat
the English, the Germans would have?) Anyway, words like "beef" and
"veal". Those are French derivitives. The German version of those words
is "cow" and "calfs flesh"; not as appealing or attractive as the
French versions.
Also, he talked about how some things said or done in the U.S. are
insulting in other countries. His example was that in Nigeria, waving
at someone with an open hand, like we might do to get someone's
attention or to say hi from a distance, is an insult.
I don't think any of that fits into Zazpiak Bat!. Maybe some
background on the teacher would help. His name is Dan Golden. He
lives in Cambridge. He works at Wheaton College. He's been in the
English teaching profession for the past 20 years. His wife (Arlene)
is also in the business.....she teaches seminars on business related
practices.
Hope this helps!
patty
|
1106.3 | maybe Hungarian? | PASTIS::MONAHAN | humanity is a trojan horse | Sat Jul 02 1994 02:24 | 7 |
| Can we rely on the transcription? The letters would appear to rule
out many oriental languages, and I think the "Z" rules out the Cyrilic
alphabet as well. As a European language I could believe Hungarian or
Basque, but not much else. I have "Winnie the Pooh" translated into
Hungarian, and the mix of letters looks reasonable. If he had given you
a decent length passage you could have identified the language from the
letter frequency tables used by cryptographers.
|
1106.4 | | PADNOM::MAILLARD | Denis MAILLARD | Mon Jul 04 1994 00:06 | 7 |
| Re .3: Dave, Cyrillic alphabet is not ruled out. There's a Z in it.
It's the letter that looks like an inverted 3, I think (but would not
swear it, although I'm positive the Z exists in Cyrillic).
Also, I wouldn't bet on Basque, it doesn't sound like it, and
Basque is an agglutinative language, which usually means much longer
words.
Denis.
|
1106.5 | Fiction? or transcription of alphabet? | WELSWS::HILLN | It's OK, it'll be dark by nightfall | Mon Jul 04 1994 02:25 | 7 |
| Can we be sure that this is a real language? Or could it be, for
example, that your teacher is a Trekkie and the phrase is Klingon? In
other words, are there any clues in the 'entertainment' interests of
your teacher?
I just looked in a dictionary and spotted a word that started 'za' with
a Russian origin -- 'za' meaning beyond.
|
1106.6 | | PASTIS::MONAHAN | humanity is a trojan horse | Mon Jul 04 1994 03:14 | 7 |
| Curious word association there. At one time there was a theory that
the Daleks from "Dr. Who" came from the Russian word "DALEKO", but the
author claims that at the time he wrote it he was facing an
encyclopedia which had a volume labelled DA to LEK ;-)
Teachers as a class tend to be keen on Esperanto, but it doesn't
look like that.
|
1106.7 | | CNTROL::ROBERTSON | | Tue Jul 05 1994 06:59 | 16 |
|
to answer your questions......
It's not Cyrillic. (I asked the teacher)
It's not Russian. (I showed it to someone who speaks Russian)
It's not Klingon. (Someone in the STAR_TREK file looked it up for me.)
The teacher assured us that it was a real language, and that its not a
computer language. Someone in another file said it might be Mongolian.
I'll try to check that language out today.
thanks for any and all ideas!!
patty
|
1106.8 | ... sounds like? ... | CPDW::CIUFFINI | God must be a Gemini... | Tue Jul 05 1994 07:30 | 11 |
|
patty,
Did the teacher write the phrase or say it?
The vowel sounds may be longer or shorter than we are reading and
it may help to 'hear' the actual phrase.
Thanks,
jc
|
1106.9 | | CSC32::S_BROOK | There and back to see how far it is | Tue Jul 05 1994 09:33 | 6 |
| I was in Luxembourg many years ago and remember seeing a monument
inscribed in Luxembourgish ... It looked sort of Germanic, but with
many z's in it ... Definitely a little unusual. In Luxembourg, the
major language seemed to be Belgian French, but also a lot of German.
Stuart
|
1106.10 | Acronym? | WHOS01::BOWERS | Dave Bowers @WHO | Tue Jul 05 1994 09:54 | 17 |
| Are they words or acronyms? Especially in medeival Europe, there seems
to have been a tendency toward acronym creation. Things that pop in to
one's mind are (for instance):
"hep" - the chant of the progroms, signifying (Hieroselyma est perdita
- Jerusalem is lost).
the medeival Jewish habit of rendering great rabbis' names a acronyms -
Reb Moshe ben Maimon also known by his Greek name of Maimonides becomes
RamBam.
the acronymic rendering of the 10 plagues of Exodus in the Passover
Haggadah.
Just a thought.
\dave
|
1106.11 | Could it be Hebrew? | WMOIS::BLANCHARD | | Tue Jul 05 1994 09:56 | 9 |
| Could it be Hebrew? The term BAT MITZVAH is used for the ceremony when
a Jewish girl assumes her Jewish duties and responsibilities.
BAR MITZVAH is the term used for the ceremony that boys go through.
BAT could mean GIRL?
Just a hunch.
Steve
|
1106.12 | | DRDAN::KALIKOW | No Federal Tacks on the Info Hwy! | Tue Jul 05 1994 10:25 | 6 |
| .11 is imho unlikely -- "Bat" in Hebrew means, if memory serves,
"daughter of" and as such is unlikely (given Hebrew word order) to be
at the end of a separable phrase...
... and the search continues...
|
1106.13 | Try,try again. | WMOIS::BLANCHARD | | Tue Jul 05 1994 10:46 | 9 |
| Ok,Ok so I missed on that attempt. Could this be from a language that
doesn't use the same letters that English uses? Like Laotion,or
Vietnamese? Or even one of those (if there is more than one) African
languages that uses "clicks". Know what I mean? Maybe those Z's are
"clicks" . No I doubt it.
Steve
|
1106.14 | some updates | CNTROL::ROBERTSON | | Tue Jul 05 1994 11:40 | 36 |
|
Hi! I'll try to answer all your questions:
<Did the teacher write the phrase or say it?
The teacher wrote the phrase on the board like so, ZAZPIAK BAT!, and
has spoken it several times. I'm probably going to massacre this, but
here goes: pronounce all the A's long.....not like Jazz, like Jarz;
make sense? More like BART than (baseball) BAT.
ZARZ PEEARK BART! The teacher doesn't have a Boston accent, either!
Maybe even better would be "H's"......ZAHZ PEE AHK BAHT! Hope that
helps!
Luxembourg.....The language is not German; I already checked. I should
put a list of the languages I have eliminated. Belgian French is a
possibility, I guess.
The teacher said they are words, not acronyms. I did find that acronym
message very interesting, though. Thanks!
I checked Hebrew. The guy who speaks it was totally baffled by this
word!
I'm not sure that I can explain this point right, but the words are
written in the English language, not Cyrillic, or any other language.
To answer the questions about African languages and clicks, I just
don't know. The teacher didn't allude to that, but I can certainly ask
him this evening.
patty
|
1106.16 | | CSC32::S_BROOK | There and back to see how far it is | Tue Jul 05 1994 12:20 | 13 |
| > Luxembourg.....The language is not German; I already checked. I should
> put a list of the languages I have eliminated. Belgian French is a
> possibility, I guess.
Not quite what I meant ... While the two major languages of Luxembourg
are German and Belgian French, there is the orignal language of Luxembourg
known in English as Luxembourgish (what they call it themselves I don't
know!) which, is sort of Germanic, but lots of Z's in it.
It certainly doesn't look German, nor French (or Belgian French!) ...
But it has this ring of Luxembourgish to it.
Stuart
|
1106.17 | | CNTROL::ROBERTSON | | Tue Jul 05 1994 12:22 | 7 |
|
re: .16
Stuart, thanks for the clarification! I'll see what I can find out
about Luxembourgish.
|
1106.18 | | CSC32::DUBOIS | Be horizontal, with honor! | Tue Jul 05 1994 12:24 | 8 |
| Patty, I would suggest you contact some local colleges/universities.
I had to sing a German song in German one year, and didn't know the proper
accent, so I contacted the head of the language dept at a local university.
He was pleased as punch to help me out and was delighted anyone would
go to so much trouble. I can imagine they would be just as pleased to
help you!
Carol
|
1106.19 | language list | CNTROL::ROBERTSON | | Tue Jul 05 1994 12:34 | 39 |
| ZAZPIAK BAT! Languages it does not match:
(If anyone can correct anything on this list, please do so. thanks,
patty)
Arabic
Basque
French
Gaelic Scottish
German
Gothic
Greek
Hebrew
Hindi
Hittite
Hungarian
Indonesian
Irish
Italian
Japanese
Klingon
Korean
Latin
Malaysian
Old Norse
Persian/Farsi
Polish
Portuguese
Romanian
Russian
Sanskrit
Scandinavian
Spanish
Swedish
Swiss German
Tagalog
Urkranian
Yiddish
|
1106.20 | | CNTROL::ROBERTSON | | Tue Jul 05 1994 12:38 | 7 |
|
re: .18
Thanks Carol. I have also been doing this, plus contacting local
libraries, and the federal translation service, to name a few!
|
1106.21 | Matter of decoding or translating? | BARSTR::PCLX31::satow | gavel::satow, dtn 223-2584 | Tue Jul 05 1994 12:55 | 12 |
| Getting back to the base note,
> My teacher gave the class a phrase to decipher. The phrase is:
> "ZAZPIAK BAT!"
Did he literally say "decipher", not "translate?"
Clay
|
1106.22 | translate | CNTROL::ROBERTSON | | Tue Jul 05 1994 14:45 | 9 |
|
< Did he literally say "decipher", not "translate?"
Nope. He literally said "translate". I mistakenly used "decipher"
thinking the two were synonymous. Sorry for any confusion this may have
caused.
patty
|
1106.23 | | AUSSIE::WHORLOW | Bushies do it for FREE! | Sun Jul 10 1994 20:42 | 16 |
| G'day,
Sounds like a drunken 'Chesapeake Bay' said with teeth together ...
like the Ali Baba open door sesame, sesawho? sezaMe...
If I recall right, Bhat is the currency of Thailand..
Maybe it is a sum of money like a thousand Bhat...
djw (with mindless meanderings...)
|
1106.24 | :-) | WELSWS::HILLN | It's OK, it'll be dark by nightfall | Mon Jul 11 1994 02:15 | 4 |
| Re .19
You haven't got English (American or British) on your list of those
eliminated
|
1106.25 | | HLDE01::63697::RIK | Mostly Harmless | Mon Jul 11 1994 03:12 | 8 |
| It's not Dutch, Flemish or Afrikaans either.
Nit: Scandinavian isn't a language but a language group (for lack of a
better word) which consists of Danish, Norwegian and Swedish. It's not one
of those either.
- Rik -
|
1106.26 | just a thort | AUSSIE::WHORLOW | Bushies do it for FREE! | Mon Jul 11 1994 21:47 | 7 |
| G'day,
What of the native indian tribal languages?
derek
|
1106.27 | | AUSSIE::WHORLOW | Bushies do it for FREE! | Mon Jul 11 1994 21:51 | 17 |
| G'day again,
remember this...
YSURYSUB ICURYYFME
Wise you are wise you be, I see you are too wise for me...
ZAZPIAK BAT!
See a sea. Pe(a) I ache Be ay Tea!
(e)
may need work and a Boston Accent?
derek
|
1106.28 | My opinion | REGENT::BROOMHEAD | Don't panic -- yet. | Thu Jul 14 1994 10:45 | 11 |
| Patty,
I have decided that the phrase does not exist, and that your teacher
is teaching you a very important point (especially for "Business Writing
and Reports, Intensive"): People will lie to you. They will tell you,
with every evidence of sincerity, that something is true, and it isn't.
You have also learned of several important research channels, and this
is a Good Thing.
Ann B.
|
1106.29 | | PENUTS::DDESMAISONS | no, i'm aluminuming 'em, mum | Thu Jul 14 1994 11:00 | 6 |
|
One can only hope that you're not paying good money
to "learn" such things, Patty. If the teacher's that much
of a git, I'd ask for a reimbursement.
|
1106.30 | | CNTROL::ROBERTSON | | Fri Jul 15 1994 11:48 | 13 |
|
re: .29
Yes, I agree. Although I haven't been putting alot of time into this
as of late, I will be very dissapointed if it is some "life lesson" and
does not exist. I probably won't ask for reimbursement, but I will let
him know what I think of his little game.
re: .28
Yes, I know people will lie to me. I hope he's not one of them.
patty
|
1106.31 | FWIW | SMURF::BINDER | etsi capularis ego vita fruar | Fri Jul 15 1994 12:20 | 3 |
| Well, I just ran a little test and determined that it doesn't yield a
meaningful English phrase when any forward-rotation or reverse-rotation
simple substitution cipher is used...
|
1106.32 | Wondering. | WMOIS::BLANCHARD | | Fri Jul 15 1994 15:57 | 7 |
| I wonder what,if any ,significance does the exclaimation point have?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?
steve
|
1106.33 | Gropings | CUPMK::WAJENBERG | | Mon Jul 18 1994 06:45 | 13 |
| Re .32:
In German, an exclamation point indicates imperative mood. I think you
ruled out German long ago, but are there other languages that use that
convention?
Of course, it might just indicate an exclamation. Wild guess: Perhaps
it *is* English, an exclamation about a bat (baseball, cricket, or
animal) and the first word of the phrass indicates annoyance or some
strong emotion. (Of course, the question remains of what language the
first word is from, not to mention what it actually means.)
Earl Wajenberg
|
1106.34 | thanks for all suggestions; any more? | CNTROL::ROBERTSON | | Mon Jul 18 1994 12:48 | 15 |
|
re: exclamation point
I asked the teacher; the exclamation point was his way of letting us
know that it is an expression. I didn't even figure that much out
on my own! Jeepers!!
I haven't been searching for a few days because my child is sick. I
hope to be back in the library this weekend. Oh, tomorrow night is
class, so if there are any specific questions anyone has and I can't
answer them, I'll ask the teacher.
patty
|
1106.35 | any comments on this? | CNTROL::ROBERTSON | | Mon Jul 18 1994 13:05 | 11 |
|
I received the following from an acquaintance in the Netherlands.
I'll cross-post it in the India notesfile, but in case someone has some
ideas on it, here goes:
>>As far as my knowledge goes is the
>>phrase comming from India or Pakistan.
>>It means desirable/intellectual talk. Like for instance what we
>>call Oxford English in England or Hoog Nederlands in my own language.
|
1106.36 | | JRDV04::DIAMOND | $ SET MIDNIGHT | Mon Jul 18 1994 18:09 | 7 |
| >the exclamation point was [...] way of letting us
>know that it is an expression.
That certainly strikes me as a dishonest use of the exclamation point.
Looks like the suggestions about lying were at least partially correct.
-- Norman Diamond
|
1106.37 | | AUSSIE::WHORLOW | Bushies do it for FREE! | Mon Jul 18 1994 18:23 | 13 |
| G'day,
reminds me of the time the french teacher wrote
Tant Pis !
on the board... and was heard to mutter "It means 'never mind' and NOT
'Aunt's in the lavatory'"
That is an expression... notice the distance from the s to the !
derek
|
1106.38 | | CNTROL::ROBERTSON | | Tue Jul 19 1994 06:08 | 14 |
|
re. 36 and 37
I think you two are on to something. On the second day of class we had
a new student. So, of course, the teacher once again wrote ZAZPIAK BAT
on the board for him. I noticed he wrote it _without_ the exclamation
point and I asked him about it. He said he wrote that punctuation
so that we would know it was an expression. And, he said it as if to
say, "come on, you could've figured that much out on your own."
I guess not or I wouldn't have asked!
patty
|
1106.39 | | LEDDEV::CHAKMAKJIAN | Shadow Nakahar of Erebouni | Mon Jul 25 1994 14:53 | 21 |
|
You have to assume something here. Many languages attach the person to the
end of the verb. English except in certain cases does not.
Assuming that either one of these words is a verb (I know I know it doesn't
have to be, however for arguments sake, let's try it):
In Armenian for example the -K ending on a verb is the plural "you" and
can be used for either a regular verb or the imperative. For example
"Uhrek" in armenian is "you do". Now Armenian is a very old indo-European
language. Its sibling languages in the language tree are Albanian and
Old-style Germanic. I don't know any Albanian, and since no-one speaks
old-style germanic, and I can say with authority it is not armenian,
you might try Albanian.
Now if you assume that BAT is a verb, then I am definitely lost.
It's definitely not Turkish either.
|
1106.40 | | JRDV04::DIAMOND | $ SET MIDNIGHT | Mon Jul 25 1994 19:54 | 1 |
| Verbs not necessary !
|
1106.41 | | CNTROL::ROBERTSON | | Wed Jul 27 1994 11:30 | 8 |
|
.39 hmmm, that definitely made me think. I'll look into the Albanian
language.
re: .40 Verbs not necessary !
Can you tell me what you mean?
|
1106.42 | | JRDV04::DIAMOND | $ SET MIDNIGHT | Wed Jul 27 1994 20:38 | 11 |
| >re: .40 Verbs not necessary !
>
>Can you tell me what you mean?
Yes.
"This sentence no verb." -- Douglas R. Hofstadter (_Goedel, Escher, Bach_)
Also the first fragment of this reply, and the third, and the fourth.
And finally, of course, an exclamation mark for an expression.
|
1106.43 | | CNTROL::ROBERTSON | | Thu Jul 28 1994 07:26 | 2 |
| re: -.1 oh, okay! thanks!
|
1106.44 | Well, what DID it mean? | OZROCK::HUNTJ | | Sun Aug 07 1994 17:54 | 2 |
| There has not been a posting here for ten days or so. What DID that phrase
mean? The suspense ...
|
1106.45 | | JRDV04::DIAMOND | $ SET MIDNIGHT | Sun Aug 07 1994 19:12 | 1 |
| The coach didn't want Zazpiak to strike out?
|
1106.46 | | OKFINE::KENAH | Every old sock meets an old shoe... | Mon Aug 08 1994 08:11 | 5 |
| I believe the student will receive the correct answer (or at least the
answer the teacher wanted) at the end of the course, late in August
(the 20somethingth).
andrew
|
1106.47 | | CNTROL::ROBERTSON | | Tue Aug 09 1994 13:10 | 5 |
|
August 23rd. If I get any clues before then, I'll post them.
patty
|
1106.48 | just to clarify | CNTROL::ROBERTSON | | Tue Aug 09 1994 13:16 | 7 |
|
I should also mention that I will not have the answer until I go
to class on August 23rd, so I won't be able to post the answer until
the following day. Class is over at 10:00 p.m. eastern standard...
patty
|
1106.49 | bizarro | PENUTS::DDESMAISONS | no, i'm aluminuming 'em, mum | Tue Aug 09 1994 13:27 | 12 |
|
Patty, can you also let us know why any responsible
instructor would consider giving an "A" to a student in
a course entitled "Business Writing and Reports, Intensive"
for figuring out the answer (or the non-answer) to a question
such as this?
It's hard to imagine what's going through his head.
Thanks,
Diane
|
1106.50 | | OKFINE::KENAH | Every old sock meets an old shoe... | Wed Aug 10 1994 09:11 | 4 |
| Getting the correct answer requires perseverance and lots of
research. Sounds like "A" level work to me...
andrew
|
1106.51 | | NOTIME::SACKS | Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085 | Wed Aug 10 1994 09:19 | 5 |
| > Getting the correct answer requires perseverance and lots of
> research. Sounds like "A" level work to me...
So does finding a cure for cancer, but it has nothing to do with business
writing and reports.
|
1106.52 | | PASTIS::MONAHAN | humanity is a trojan horse | Wed Aug 10 1994 09:54 | 6 |
| Maybe that is part of the clue. The oldest languages with reported
business transactions are probably Sumerian and...? The alphabet used
would still be a problem, and why a student of modern business should
have an interest in Sumerian is more of a problem. It is probably Urdu
for "You're TFSO'd", which should be in any modern business managers
vocabulary.
|
1106.53 | | CNTROL::ROBERTSON | | Thu Aug 11 1994 09:48 | 15 |
|
to answer a few back, yes, I will ask him why the "A" was offered.
I can speculate and say that it was offered because he knew no one
would find the answer. I don't know for certain, but I'm willing to
bet that if I didn't have a 4 month old baby, I'd be spending alot
more time in the library, or where ever research led me. I've had to
put this aside due to normal everyday life!
He probably wouldn't ask this of a day student, because he has
mentioned several times that if we weren't "burdened" with our lives, we
would be able to spend all weekend in a library or where ever we needed
to be to get this answer. I feel that he is betting on the fact that we
don't have a lot of free time; and we don't!
Wouldn't that be great if I could walk in there with the answer?!
|
1106.54 | | OKFINE::KENAH | Every old sock meets an old shoe... | Thu Aug 11 1994 10:04 | 1 |
| Have you contacted the UN? I suspect they might be able to help...
|
1106.55 | | CNTROL::ROBERTSON | | Thu Aug 11 1994 12:57 | 7 |
|
yes, I did contact the U.N.
They need a language to point me towards the right translators.
good idea, though....
|
1106.56 | | NOTIME::SACKS | Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085 | Thu Aug 11 1994 13:32 | 2 |
| He sounds like a pompous boor to me. His ideal is to waste as much of his
students' time as possible.
|
1106.57 | | CNTROL::ROBERTSON | | Fri Aug 12 1994 08:55 | 21 |
|
I don't really know how to take him. My interest was high the first
couple of nights, but he likes to make a lot of political and religious
comments.....about which I'm glad that he has an opinion and I respect
it, but I don't want it shoved at me at every turn. He's also a
fish only vegetarian, which is fine, also, I have nothing against that.
But, he refers to non-vegetarians as "those who have a taste for cooked
animal". He has a way of making it sound very unpleasant.
At one point, on his political soap box, he made the statement that
mothers should be home with their children, and he directed it toward
me. I said, "excuse me, but I am not working for fun money; I work to
survive." He made a comment about my child's first words being
"mamaseeta" (I'm writing that phonetically...I think it's mom in another
language.) I ignored that comment since the sitter speaks English; why
argue over nothing, right?
Well, still, soon he will tell me what ZAZPIAK BAT means and I will
post it every where I possibly can!
|
1106.58 | | PENUTS::DDESMAISONS | no, i'm aluminuming 'em, mum | Fri Aug 12 1994 09:04 | 3 |
|
er yeah, sounds like "pompous boor" probably fits. ;>
|
1106.59 | | PASTIS::MONAHAN | humanity is a trojan horse | Fri Aug 12 1994 09:26 | 4 |
| Maybe it would help to give him this string (complete) after he has
awarded marks. You have my permission to extract anything I have
written in this string. Any objections? And yes, on balance I am
inclined to believe that he is a pompous boor.
|
1106.60 | | PENUTS::DDESMAISONS | no, i'm aluminuming 'em, mum | Fri Aug 12 1994 10:10 | 6 |
|
>> Any objections?
Yes - 'twould not exactly be the classiest thing to
do, would it?
|
1106.61 | | CNTROL::ROBERTSON | | Fri Aug 12 1994 11:16 | 11 |
|
re: .59
I have to agree with the last note (.60). To do that would be "lowering"
myself to his level. He does act pretty pompous. That's what I don't
get about this guy. Well, whatever, we shall all know what Zazpiak bat
means soon, and I have an "A" in the class already, so all is right
with the world!
|
1106.62 | | OKFINE::KENAH | Every old sock meets an old shoe... | Fri Aug 12 1994 11:45 | 5 |
| After the exercise is through, ask him what he expected you to learn.
Personally, I think it's stirred the brain cells of more than one
person, and for that alone I deem it worthwhile.
andrew
|
1106.63 | *I* would avoid his class! | CSC32::DUBOIS | Aug 19, Aug 19, Aug 19... | Fri Aug 12 1994 12:14 | 6 |
| His comments also give me reason to believe that there's grounds for
harassment charges. He is making it uncomfortable for students to be in
his class on the grounds of their sex. Even if you don't file charges,
*someone* should let this guy know that his comments are inappropriate.
Carol
|
1106.64 | | CNTROL::ROBERTSON | | Fri Aug 12 1994 13:47 | 15 |
|
re: .62 Andrew, I couldn't agree with you more. Although I'm tired and
weary from the class and from searching for ZAZPIAK BAT, I still want
to know what it means! (along with thousands of other people!)
re: .63 Carol, Oops, I didn't mention that he apologized for offending me.
I can't see bringing him up on charges, anyway. I wasn't *that*
offended! And I certainly didn't feel uncomfortable returning to class the
next week. He's free to have his own opinions, I just don't want to hear
them all the time!:') And besides, 6 years in the Marine Corps showed
me the definition of "harassment"! I'll be sure to recognize it if I
run into it again!
|
1106.65 | | REGENT::BROOMHEAD | Don't panic -- yet. | Fri Aug 12 1994 14:44 | 6 |
| I'll agree with Carol: "Someone should let this guy know that his
comments are inappropriate." If for no other reason than that he
will know to tone them down, so that a more sensitive person will
not charge him with harassment in the future.
Ann B.
|
1106.66 | | JRDV04::DIAMOND | segmentation fault (california dumped) | Sun Aug 14 1994 17:52 | 15 |
| That kind of sexism has no place in the classroom, and it wasn't
an honest mistake by the person. I would submit a formal complaint
to the person's employer even if I had some reason not to be
personally offended.
Also "fish only vegetarian" is an oxymoron at least twice over.
Most vegetables aren't fish. In fact, all vegetables aren't fish.
Fish are animals, and the person has a taste for cooked animals.
I've travelled in countries where vegetarianism is common for
religious or social reasons. The difference between a vegetarian
and non-vegetarian meal is an *egg*. I am not a vegetarian, but
I think it is not difficult for an honest person to have a bit
more respect for the idea than that shyster has.
-- Norman Diamond
|
1106.67 | | CNTROL::ROBERTSON | | Mon Aug 15 1994 06:39 | 4 |
|
As I mentioned, he did apologize, and that is good enough for me.
That may not sit well with some of you, but it is my decision.
|
1106.68 | how about artificial international languages? | MEMIT::RICH | | Mon Aug 15 1994 10:44 | 11 |
| Given that this guy is a "philosopher", maybe there IS a point to
this exercise.
I think there were three or four "international languages". This
definitely is not Esperanto, but could it Voluspuk? or Interlingua?
(I'm not sure of the spelling here). His point could be that
artificial languages never became accepted by the mass of people
intended. Maybe a quick check of an encyclopedia could yield some info
on the non-Esperanto languages.
-Neil
|
1106.69 | | CNTROL::ROBERTSON | | Mon Aug 15 1994 14:44 | 4 |
|
Hmmm... it's worth a shot. I'll let you know what I find.
Thanks!
|
1106.70 | | PENUTS::DDESMAISONS | no, i'm aluminuming 'em, mum | Mon Aug 15 1994 15:04 | 9 |
|
>> Given that this guy is a "philosopher", maybe there IS a point to
>> this exercise.
I, for one, didn't mean to imply that I think there's no point
to this exercise, certainly. I love this kind of challenge.
It's the idea of getting an automatic "A" for solving it that
seems - well - ridiculous, at first glance anyways.
|
1106.71 | | VORTEX::SMURF::BINDER | etsi capularis ego vita fruar | Tue Aug 16 1994 08:08 | 4 |
| John Covert has found the solution. See CDSRV::ASKENET_V5, note
445.54. The language is Basque.
-dick
|
1106.72 | Can I preen myself on .3 ;-) | PASTIS::MONAHAN | humanity is a trojan horse | Tue Aug 16 1994 08:38 | 1 |
|
|
1106.73 | | PENUTS::DDESMAISONS | no, i'm aluminuming 'em, mum | Tue Aug 16 1994 10:10 | 6 |
| >> -< Can I preen myself on .3 ;-) >-
preen away. ;> you deserve it.
|
1106.74 | yes, you do deserve it! | CNTROL::ROBERTSON | | Tue Aug 16 1994 10:47 | 9 |
|
re: .72
Oops, I never did follow up on that lead. My mistake; seems I could
have ended this weeks ago!! Well, it's actually on hold until I can
research and find out the meaning! Stay tuned!
patty
|
1106.75 | wait!!! | CNTROL::ROBERTSON | | Tue Aug 16 1994 10:54 | 6 |
|
Wait a minute!! Basque was ruled out! I'll go through my notes to
see why.....this'll have to wait, though. My notes are at home.
I'll get back to you as soon as I can...... patty
|
1106.76 | | NOTIME::SACKS | Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085 | Wed Aug 17 1994 08:32 | 1 |
| John's been known to pull pranks before.
|
1106.77 | ZAZPIAK BAT! | 38728::ROBERTSON | | Wed Aug 24 1994 08:00 | 35 |
| John's not pranking this time! He had it, and I would have had it, if only
I hadn't listened to several "experts" who said, "Oh, no, it can't be
that"! I have a few phone calls to make......
ZAZPIAK BAT!
The language is Basque and its literal meaning is "the seven into one".
Zazpi means seven
bat means one
A Zazpiak bat is a shield commonly made of seven layers of leather.
(The seven into one for strength)
Basque is located in Southern France/Northern Spain.
The French consider Basque part of France and the Spanish
consider it part of Spain. But Basque wants to be its
own identity. They speak three languages, French, Spanish, and
Basque. The Basque language is considered to be made up of French
and Spanish, but it is not!
There are seven "counties" (for lack of a better word)
that make up Basque, and they wish to be considered one.
This information comes from "A Comparitive Study of Basque and Greek
Vocabulary" ....I didn't catch the authors name.
The majority of Jai aLai players are from Basque. So....if you ever run
into one, they will be most impressed if you say Zazpiak Bat!
Never yell this in a Spanish airport.
|
1106.78 | | PASTIS::MONAHAN | humanity is a trojan horse | Wed Aug 24 1994 08:52 | 29 |
| re: .77
>Basque is located in Southern France/Northern Spain.
>The French consider Basque part of France and the Spanish
>consider it part of Spain. But Basque wants to be its
>own identity. They speak three languages, French, Spanish, and
>Basque. The Basque language is considered to be made up of French
>and Spanish, but it is not!
"ETA" stands for "Basque Separatist Movement", but in Basque. They
are the ones that blow up airports and police stations.
In France the Basques learn Basque as their mother tongue, and then
later learn French at school. In Spain they learn Basque as their
mother tongue and learn Spanish at school. When they are smuggling
across the border (not needed much these days) they use Basque.
Anyone who has heard Basque could not possibly mistake it for
either French or Spanish. I have heard it on French television with
French subtitles. The last I heard it was considered to be a
non-European language since linguists could not distinguish Latin,
German or Celtic roots in it.
Personally I have a lot of sympathy for the Basque separatists
(though not their techniques). Having a national border sliced through
the middle of your racial and linguistic group, and then having people
on one side forced to learn one foreign language, while people on the
other side are forced to learn another foreign language must be a bit
annoying.
|
1106.79 | | PENUTS::DDESMAISONS | no, i'm aluminuming 'em, mum | Wed Aug 24 1994 09:12 | 3 |
|
So, this means you're getting an "A", no?
|
1106.80 | | JRDV04::DIAMOND | segmentation fault (california dumped) | Wed Aug 24 1994 18:33 | 2 |
| And basque in reflected glory while receiving an inappropriate
benefit from that basquet case of a professor....
|
1106.81 | Fire tragedy in French cinema!! | PASTIS::MONAHAN | humanity is a trojan horse | Thu Aug 25 1994 00:34 | 4 |
| My French teacher at school used to tell a very long story about a
fire in a cinema in southern France.... imagine long narrative
section... and concluded with "and that's what happens when you have
all your Basques in one exit".
|
1106.82 | I'll be the envy of everyone..... | 38728::ROBERTSON | | Thu Aug 25 1994 07:50 | 4 |
|
yes, I'm getting an "A". Also, a year's worth of free consultation
from this English professor. I'm not sure how to respond...!
|
1106.83 | | NOTIME::SACKS | Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085 | Thu Aug 25 1994 10:03 | 2 |
| It sounds like some of the people in this notesfile would like to give him
a "free consultation."
|
1106.84 | | JRDV04::DIAMOND | segmentation fault (california dumped) | Thu Aug 25 1994 17:51 | 4 |
| >It sounds like some of the people in this notesfile would like to give him
>a "free consultation."
Some of us want him to pay.
|
1106.85 | | VORTEX::SMURF::BINDER | etsi capularis ego vita fruar | Fri Aug 26 1994 07:11 | 9 |
| Re .84
>> a "free consultation."
> Some of us want him to pay.
This is not an oxymoron. A "free consultation" can result in the
consultee's paying quite a lot; for example, suppose the consultant
happens to be in the business of kneecapping.
|
1106.86 | L'Envoi | FORTY2::KNOWLES | Road-kill on the Info Superhighway | Tue Sep 13 1994 07:05 | 45 |
| Returning briefly to the subject (and my non-contribution to it
hitherto), I agreed with .3 but thought I'd keep my powder dry
until I'd done a bit of research, when I could sweep the board.
But pride goeth before a fall. I didn't get round to the research
before my annual holiday, so I was a month too late. The first
book I looked in said this:
It is by its grammar that Basque distinguishes itself
most clearly from the Indo-European family. Attempts to
determine through linguistics the true origins of Basque
have been signally inconclusive. Some scholars have
discerned a living relative in the Caucasus [on grounds
of grammar, not vocablary or phonology - bk]... others
have argued that Basque is an African language. At the
same time, the attractive hypothesis that it is related
to ancient Iberian has not borne fruit, for modern
Basque, although it appears to consist of a similar range
of sounds [and some words were obviously borrowed:
Castilian `izquierda' obviously owes more to Basque
`ezkerr' than to Latin `sinister' - bk], has contributed
nothing to the deciphering of inscriptions in the former
language of Spain. [On the subject of inscriptions, the
book mentions another hypothesis: that the Pal�oloithic
painters of bison-like animals in the Cuevas de Altamira
spoke a precursor of Basque. - bk]
.
.
.
The most extreme claim of the Basque nationalist,
Zazpiak Bat, `The seven are one', refers to the four
provinces in Spain, plus three in France, where Basque
is spoken; not many examples of political graffiti are
as succinct as `3 + 4 = 1' scrawled on Spanish walls.
So the pompous boor either read the same book (Words, ed. Victor
Stevenson, London, 1983) or used to hang out on the Spanish
underground. Or perhaps the phrase is quite well-known in some
circles.
Anyways, I coulda been a contender. I could too. Hmphh.
b
|