Conference thebay::joyoflex

    >"To ban or not to ban outlandish youth-speak"
    
    Your parents would have voted "Ban"  :-)
    
    >Where does this style of speech emanate?
    
    Sol III
    
    >Who invented it?
    
    Well, your parents would have said that your generation invented it,
    but your grandparents would have disagreed  :-)

    They seem to have missed "dudettes".  There is a subtle distinction
    between a "babe" and a "dudette" that escapes me at the moment.  It was
    explained to me (in between explanations of an F-16 flight simulator)
    while I was giving this 13-year-old from California a glider ride last
    weekend, but my attention was occupied by two other nearby gliders.

    It's a cross between California surf speak, the Simpsons, and a few
    other sources.  I expect it will also include every word which elicits
    a rise out of you.

    The real question is whether or not they know how to speak and write
    more nearly standard English.  If they do, then I don't see any
    problem.  If they don't, then you might consider an ukase to speak
    standard English at the dinner table.  I seriously doubt that will be
    effective, though, and the better they are at standard English, the
    better they will be at teen speak.  They can pick up the terms faster
    than you can stamp them out, and if you make it fun by complaining ...

    Another alternative is to join in.  That might end the practice at
    home.  You can probably find an au courant dictionary at your local
    book store.  So join in--word games are fun.  This is a wickedly
    heinous moral issue, dude.
    
    
    	NOT!

    which has been discussed at length in another topic in this conference.

    I'll plump for Tom Eggers' position, too.  When my daughters were
    around home more, the first waves of "ValleyGirlSpeak" washed eastward
    to the GMA.  We all had a good time with it, making fun of/with it, and
    punning on the new forms as they became available.  I know we let it be
    understood that it was not for SERIOUS talk in a career context, but we
    were sure of their abilities to distinguish the casual from the
    important...  And it was FUN to (try to) keep up with them!  I should
    think that anyone with such a classic notes personal_name would have no
    trouble enjoying himself with this new linguistic grist... 
    
    :-)
    

    ...although it's interesting to consider (in the official JoyOfLex
    pedantic tradition) which terms and usages will remain constant
    and which will die.  "Like", randomly interspersed into conversation,
    seems to have been constant at least back into the fifties, and
    my kids use it, too...

    Like wow, man.
    
    The currrent teenspeak is certainly no worse than in the '60s, and if
    it actually teaches somebody the meaning of the word heinous it can't
    be all bad.

re: .5
    
>    The currrent teenspeak is certainly no worse than in the '60s, and if
>    it actually teaches somebody the meaning of the word heinous it can't
>    be all bad.

The problem is that a perfectly good word, like "heinous" gets overused, and 
used in situations in which it is not appropriate, to the point that the word 
is, effectively, lost to the English language.  Current examples are "awesome" 
and "radical."  In the '60s, the word "cool" got usurped in the same way. 

But I agree, I don't think that the current teenspeak is any worse than in my 
day.

Clay

    I must be slow to pick up on these things. I thought the latest forms
    started in Bill and Ted's Excellent (or Bogus) Adventure", but
    obviously I'm wrong. I was hoping that "Wayne's World", with its
    depiction of middle-aged pseudo-youths mouthing the same gibberish,
    would put an end to it all, but that was wishful thinking!
    
    Totally, heinously bogus, dude, but excellent, like, radical....NOT!!
    
    Ray

    Explain to them that their use of bogus is bogus (when it is) and
    leave it at that.
    
    Watch "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" when they're not home.
    
    							Ann B.

    Or to dredge up an earlier term:	"false canard"

I climbed Mt. Monadnock yesterday, and there were lots of kids on top.  Being
almost winter, the presence of frozen puddles up there was exciting to many
of us.  As I tried to slab out (translation:  well-deserved nap on rock slab
following lunch following strenuous climb), I was awakened by a kid screaming
to his friend:

	Hey, come here, MAJOR ice, totally awesome !   MAJOR ice, quick, come
	here !

    He should have said "colonel ice" of course.

    I've used Intel ice to debug a kernel.

Continuing in the same vein .....

There was a wonderful 5 minute spot on BBC Radio 4 this morning about a 
culturally induced transformation among the black population of South Africa.
A new language (similar to Pidgin) has developed overnight and is used widely
among the youth (mostly teens, now spreading to youngsters).

The language is called Totsi-Tal and is a combination of several African dialects,
English and Afrikaans.  It has some characteristics comparable to Cockney
rhyming slang and yet some others that I suppose are unique because this 
language has been invented to be hard to understand.  The black youth in certain
areas are using it openly on the streets in the knowledge that the police cannot
possibly understand.

It was an interesting documentary - the youngsters were delighted that they
had created this new "private communication channel".  Their parents were 
distraught, because it is developing so fast and so widespread, that they cannot
themselves understand much of it.  The authorities of course refuse to even
recognise that it exists.

A few snippets ;

Totsi			(Zulu)		"Thug"
Tal			(Afrikaans)	"Language"

Tyson, v.		t-t		"To hit someone - hard"  (easy one)
judge, v.		t-t		"to agree to see someone later" (wry ?)
nine-nine, adj.		t-t		"good"
Barcelony		t-t		"to run away - fast" (TV induced ?)

many other hybrid Zulu/Swahili/Afikaans examples, none of which I can remember.