Conference thebay::joyoflex

    >This is a classical "Britishism" that's virtually unheard on the lips
    >of speakers of American.
    
    I wouldn't have thought that anyone would dare to make such an
    outlandish claim.

    
    I would have thought that by now you would understand that we invented
    English and to speak it proper like, you have to be from the British
    Isles.  And furthermore I would have thought that you'd know what complete
    bollox you speak over in the good 'ol U.S. of apple pie A.
    
    I would have thought anyway.
    
    Love and I would have thoughts
    
    Jamie

Do any Brits say "Who'd 'a' thunk it?"

(Trans. "Who would have thought that such a thing could happen?")

    Yep. My mother used to. But she worked for Technicolor, and I suspect
    (guess) quite a few Americanisms crept into the mother tongue I learnt.
    
    b

    I use "I would have thought" whenever it is appropriate.  
    
    
    E Grace

    re .0
    
    Well, you might not hear it on TV sit coms, or at the wrestling
    matches, but I am an American, and I hear, and use, this phrase 
    frequently.  I would have thought you would have heard it if you had
    spent any time here.
    
    -ellie  

    Re: .0
    
    It isn't common here, but it is used.  It doesn't seem particularly
    parsimonious to me; in fact, it seems a bit awkward.  Perhaps that is a
    difference between speakers of the Queen's English and the rest of us.
    
    A "Britishism" that you will _not_ hear spoken by self-respecting
    Americans is "shan't."  Too bad, I say, but we seem quite serious about
    it.
    
    Bernie

    > Do any Brits say "Who'd 'a' thunk it?"

    Most of the people I know seem to have more, er, colourful ways of 
    expressing surprise!

    June.

    > Do any Brits say "Who'd 'a' thunk it?"
    
    Incidentally, there's a pub not too far from Reading called 
    The Who'd 'a' Tho't It. And if you think that's hard to read
    you should try reading the pub sign.
    
    b

	I have asked the moderator to change the title of this note to:

		JOYOFLEX Official Merkin Information Repository

    
   >> Well, you might not hear it on TV sit coms, or at the wrestling
   >> matches, but I am an American, and I hear, and use, this phrase 
   >> frequently.  I would have thought you would have heard it if you had
   >> spent any time here.
    
   >> -ellie  


	I agree with you Ellie - that has been my experience as well.

	Diane

	PS "at the wrestling matches" - I love it. 8^)

    hmmm.  I have exercised "Droit du Auteur" and RE-changed the /TITLE of
    this note back to a reasonable facsimile of its natal state.  Whoever
    coerced our Noble Moderati to change the title to something like
    "JOYOFLEX OFFICIAL MERKIN INFORMATION REPOSITORY" is a goateed
    blackguard whose goatee is of suspicious provenance indeed.
    
    Any by the bye, wot happened to those two O-So-Deliteful notes about
    the usage of merkins in James Bond novels?  That were a gross slander
    both on St. Ian Fleming and on his creation, (Sir) James Bond.  I, for
    one, was happy to see their mysterious disappearance.  ::SUBURBANs are
    fine in their place, donchaknow, but any who can't distinguish between
    entomology and etymology risk DECwindows DEFenestration in these
    August Precincts.
    
    So BEGONE, AVAUNT, and fare-thee-well, and stop muckin about with me
    /TITs.  Oops /TITLEs.  
    
    Darn, I hate it when than happens -- How Come Dat Funny, anyhoo?  And
    wasn't dis where I came in?  :-)
            

    The "Who'd a tho't it" is a delightful pub on Nine-mile-ride,
    Crowthorne (near Reading, Berkshire).
    
    Back to the "I would have thought..." commentary: actually, I tend to
    use this form occasionally, in an unconscious manner, usually when
    trying to construct the rest of my sentence. At least it's better than
    saying "um, er".
    
    But this is infinitely better than most of the people I meet here in
    the USA who would articulate it as "I would of thought...."
    
    Tally-ho,
    
    Ray

    No.  What they are saying is:
    
    	"I would've thought ....",
    
    "would've" being a contraction for "would have". They are not saying:
    
    	"I would of thought ...."

    >They are not saying:  "I would of thought ...."
    
    You're right.  They're WRITING "I would of thought ...."

    Hmmm.  Have you actually seen "I would of thought" in writing?
    If so, I'll grumble with you.

>    Hmmm.  Have you actually seen "I would of thought" in writing?

I've seen it.

[grumble...]

-- Cathy

    I've seen it, too. Often. In Digital notes conferences, even!
    
    I used to grumble; now I just toss it in the its/it's/lose/loose
    bucket. One of these days the bucket is going to be full, and then I
    shall probably ram my car into an advertising agency somewhere in
    desperate but unavailing protest...
    
    Who'd of thought I'd loose my self-control - but that's what its come
    to. <Sheesh, that hurt just to type!>
    
    -b

    I first saw it as a T.A. while marking the assignments of undergraduate
    students.  I'm pretty sure that I saw it ONLY in assignments that were
    written by native ******* speakers.  Since the growth of Usenet, I've
    seen it a lot more often, and yes I think I've also seen it in Digital
    notesfiles.  Again, probably ONLY in writings by native ******* speakers.
    
    [******* Although the laws of Japan allow and sometimes enforce
    discrimination against some ethnic groups and languages, in the
    interest of valuing differences I refrain from naming the language.]
    
    -- Norman Diamond

    Re .19:
>    [******* Although the laws of Japan allow and sometimes enforce
>    discrimination against some ethnic groups and languages, in the
    
    	I'm interested, Norman. Care to elaborate a bit?
    			Denis.

    ******* = English.  Actually, I have only seen native American
    (not to be confused with Native American) speakers write "would of"
    but then I have not seen enough writings from English speakers.
    Somebody who learned English as a second language would've known
    better.
    
    --Simon
    

    "I would have thought", (not "I would of") seems like a perfectly
    natural expression to this native speaker of American English. What I
    can't stand is the expression "If I would have...".

    	My younger daughter persists in using "would of" despite continual
    correction, but her best friend is American.

>    What I can't stand is the expression "If I would have...".

This misuse of the subjunctive has become endemic. Even Quayle
gets this wrong (no surprises there, I suppose): 
    "...[I'd be ready] if that tragic event would occur". 
It sounds like he _wants_ it to happen. 

Still, George also weighs in:
    "I still feel the economy is recovering, and I believe
    it's going to be a more robust of a recovery in the
    second quarter...".

...Robert

    Re: .13
    
    The 'Who'd a thought it'  sign is also used by an incredibly small
    pub in the middle of Dartmoor here in the UK.  Dartmoor is otherwise
    famous for its bleakness and a prison!