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Conference thebay::joyoflex

Title:The Joy of Lex
Notice:A Notes File even your grammar could love
Moderator:THEBAY::SYSTEM
Created:Fri Feb 28 1986
Last Modified:Mon Jun 02 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1192
Total number of notes:42769

679.0. "Lo, a Pale Straw Horse." by SKIVT::ROGERS (Damnadorum Multitudo.) Thu Jun 01 1989 16:47

It seems like any time I get involved with a DEC committee that is writing a
proposal, a project plan or a specification, some idiot suggests creating
a "straw horse" document.  If the idiot is really cool, he or she may suggest
that we create a "straw" (thus proving that said idiot is a really "with-it"
type individual.) 

If I interpret the phrase correctly, the straw horse proposal is a first draft
containing arguing points to be discussed or modified in the final document.

My Webster's New Collegiate provides the following: 

	straw man: 1. A weak or imaginary opponent (as an argument or 
	adversary) set up only to be easily confuted.  2. a person set up to 
	serve as a cover for a usually questionable transaction.

	straw vote: An unofficial vote or poll.

	stalking-horse: 1. A horse or figure like a horse behind which a 
	hunter stalks game.  2. something used to mask a purpose.  3. a 
	candidate put forward to divide the opposition or to conceal someone's 
	real candidacy.

There is no mention of a "straw horse", however.  Is this just more Dec-speak?

Larry
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679.1straw horse and stalking manLESCOM::KALLISAnger's no replacement for reason.Thu Jun 01 1989 17:526
    One presumes that "straw horse" was conceived in an attempt to
    eliminate implied sexism; I doubt it's exclusively Digital's.
    
    ... Or maybe it's a corruption of "saw horse." ;-)
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
679.2EAGLE1::EGGERSAnybody can fly with an engine.Fri Jun 02 1989 04:149
    I think "straw horse" is just a mixed metaphor derived from
    "straw man" and "stalking horse". There was a period about
    15 years ago when creating these was a fad, the more outrageous
    the better.
    
    As far as its current use, a "straw man" proposal is an initial
    proposal written with the realization it will get modified. When people
    have something "concrete" to look at, it tends to stimulate their
    thoughts, particularly when they disagree. 
679.3PSTJTT::TABERPatrick, N1GGR@KB4NFri Jun 02 1989 15:286
I believe it is a Straw Man document used as a Stocking Horse to conceal
the sinister purpose of the commitee.  That is, by letting people argue
about the details of HOW the project should be done, they are distracted
from the question of WHY it should be done at all.

					>>>==>PStJTT
679.4Hay, I've got an idea! Why don't we...POOL::HALLYBThe Smart Money was on GoliathSat Jun 03 1989 20:545
    Then there was the series of documents that led to the creation of the
    ADA language:  Strawman, Woodenman, Tinman, Ironman, Steelman.
    
    I think a Straw Horse document is a Straw Man document created by a
    committee that's just horsing around.
679.5EAGLE1::EGGERSAnybody can fly with an engine.Sun Jun 04 1989 05:591
    I think I'll burn that bridge when I come to it. 
679.6WoodmanCOMICS::DEMORGANRichard De Morgan, UK CSC/CSMon Jun 05 1989 11:011
    re .4: It was Woodman, not Woodenman.
679.7Burn, baby, burnMARVIN::WALSHMon Jun 05 1989 19:138
    re: 5
    
    I think they call it "straw" because, being a first draft (which is
    what any intelligent person would have called it in the first place),
    it is almost certain to end up on the fire, and must therefore be
    reasonably flammable.
    
    Chris
679.8was this discussed somewhre else?EAGLE1::EGGERSAnybody can fly with an engine.Tue Jun 06 1989 04:264
    Re: .7
    
    Oh, no!  The dreaded "flammable" again.  I presume .7 really means
    "inflammable". 
679.9From a literary source, I think!IOSG::ROBERTSAbsolutely! .... and why not?Tue Jun 06 1989 12:4028
    I have a theory....
    
    In 16th and 17th century English poetry/prose there are many allusions
    to "straw horses" or horses that magically transform into bails of
    hay/straw when ridden over water. I think there is a scene in Marlowe's
    "Dr Faustus": a man is sold a very good horse for a measly sum, and
    when he asked the salesman why it was so cheap, the salemsan responds
    that it is because the horse should never be ridden over running
    water....
    
    The new owner of the horse rode it over fields and hills and it was
    superb - a real quality horse.... But he was not satisfied, and his
    curiosity got the better of him so he rode it over a brook, and..... it
    turned into a bail of straw... The rider was nearly drawoned, and all
    he had left was some wet straw for his money - hardly such a barigain
    as the horse had been...
    
    I think this tale has been used to descibe those documents which,
    though complete in some areas, are obviously incomplete in others. Just
    like the horse went well over land, though not so well over water. Such
    documents are meant to be partial, and the authors (should) make no
    promises about their state. However, unwary/stupid readers (riders)
    sometimes focus on the defficiencies.... It is thus a good way of
    promoting discussion about particular parts of a document!
    
    What do you think?
    
    R|tch^d
679.10Burning with shameMARVIN::WALSHThu Jun 08 1989 18:205
    re: .8
    
    Whoops! Mea maxima culpa!
    
    Chris
679.11S'possible...AYOV18::BRIGHTTHOMASFri Jun 16 1989 18:508
     re.9
    
    If the document is a straw horse of the type described ie it doesn't
    go well over water, it may refer to a document written in the UK
    that US corporate personnel may not comprehend/like.
    
    PBT.