Conference thebay::joyoflex

    In the 1950s, there was an amimated cartoon show based on the
    Dick Tracy comic strip.
    
    At the beginning of each cartoon, Tracy would contact one of
    the other cartoon cops (the "real" stars -- Tracy only made
    cameo appearances in the episodes).  The conversation between
    the two was always via two-way wrist radio.  At the end of the
    radio conversation, one or the other would end it with:
    
    	"Six two and even, over and out."
    
    
    What does it mean?  Dunno.  Is this the first usage?  Again, Dunno.
    
    					andrew

I remember Joe Morgan, Red Sox manager, using the pharase during a sports 
interview on the news last year. I thought it was one of his own expressions 
that he seems to come up with once in awhile. I wondered what it meant then and 
now I wonder even more.

Pete

    I don't *know* the answer to this question but....
    
    When I was in the Royal Air Force (RAF) we were often called upon
    to open the hanger (aircraft garage) doors with the cry of "Two-Six"
    which was also used in gathering groups of people and also as a
    phrase meaning quickly, as in : "If you do that again laddie I'll
    have you on a charge (disciplinary hearing) two six!"
    
    I asked about this phrase and was fobbed-off with an explanation
    that suggested that an RAF form 26 used to be required for the opening
    and closing of hanager doors. I didn't believe this feeble story
    as it didn't explain the sense of urgency the term also implied
    in other useages.
    
    Several years later I vivited HMS Victory at Portsmouth and went
    home with a guide book.  I was intrigued to discover that the gun
    crews were composed of eight men, each with a number. Some of the
    men were responsible for loading the powder, others the shot, etc.
    The major task was hauling the mighty cannon backwards for loading
    and again forwards for firing. I learnt in the guide book that the
    signal for firing was given by the key man each side of the gun
    who's task it was to call out their specific number to indicate
    that the gun had been fully run-out on their respective side. Guess
    what the notional numbers of these chaps were? Yes, you're right.
    They were numbers two and six.  As the English language has a host
    of nautical phrases in it like; "show a leg" and "the devil to pay"
    it wasn't difficult to surmise that TWO-SIX or even SIX-TWO as a
    signal for readiness or speed come from this source and period.
    
    The expression "six two and even" suggests to me that the gun has
    been run out and it at right angles to the ship's keel line and
    is therefore ready to be fired! A similar expression of "Two six
    and even" might also happen depending on which side pulled hardest
    or first.  My assumption is that each word would have been shouted
    by a separate member of the gun crew and that "even" whould have
    been the final signal. In the confined gun-deck with the noise and
    smoke of battle and several hundred gun-crew operating the signalling
    system will have to have been simple and loud.  With up to 100 guns
    on a vessel of this sort and several hundred ships over many years
    it is highly likely that many thousands of seamen were used to such
    routine language. My guess is that the origin of the Bogart phrase
    and of the RAF cry are from these times and began in the British
    Navy.
    
    This could, of course be just plain eye-wash. Any other suggestions...
    
    Bucko...
    

    I was thinking along nautical lines too, because of the fairly recent
    (possibly contemporary) use of a chant used on board a sailing ship
    (most recent sighting about twenty years ago, when my brother in law
    (-elect, at the time) was a sail trainee on the Sir Winston Churchill).
    Instead of shanties, they chanted `Two six heave' as they were pulling
    on a rope.
    
    I say only `thinking', because the connection with the Bogart usage
    was at best tenuous.
    
    Cdr Peter Kent's Oxford Companion to Ships and the Sea might help.
    If the local library's got a copy, I'll check.
    
    b
    

I had always thought 6, 2 and even were the Win, Place and Show odds for a 
reasonably sure thing.  Certainly racing was more in the tough detective
line than naval gunnery.
					>>>==>PStJTT

    RE .5
    
    Win, place and show seems logical but...
    
    The 6-1 odds against winning don't seem a 'reasonably sure thing'
    and would not be in the 'favourite' class in any race other than
    one with a massive field like the British Grand National say.
    
    Place and show confuse me. My dictionary defines place as: any of
    the first four finishers and more usually second place. Show was
    not defined in racing terms and probably means the same as place.
    
    So this mythical nag has a 6-1 chance of winning. A 2-1 chance of
    being second and an even-money (1-1) chance of being in the first
    four. I can't reconcile the 'odds' difference between first and
    second place. 
    
    I believe the root is nautical and the expression has been picked
    up by those who seek 'betting credibility'.
    
    I'll lay 6 - 2 and even that I'm right... :-)
    
    Bucko...
    

re: .4

>    Instead of shanties, they chanted `Two six heave' as they were pulling
>    on a rope.

        I always heard it as "Three six heave", particularly in   tug-o'-war.
        Perhaps different members of the gun crew pull ropes?

        	Steve

    
    Now that we've got well and truly sidetracked onto gun-crews, (whence
    *does* come the expression 2,6,and even, from the gun-laying drill
    on ships of the line.),  did you know that, unitl very recently,
    British artillery crews used to include a man whose job was to hold
    the Land-Rover towing vehicle, to prevent it panicking and running
    awy when they fired the gun ?  A hangover from the days of horse-drawn
    guns.
    
    Ian
     

    Re .8:  (continuing the side-track ...   :-)  )
    
>   ...... did you know that, unitl very recently,
>   British artillery crews used to include a man whose job was to hold
>   the Land-Rover towing vehicle, to prevent it panicking and running
>   awy when they fired the gun ?  A hangover from the days of horse-drawn
>   guns.
    
    This story represents the updating of an incident that _actually_ took
    place in the early days of WW II. Some War Office boffins were conducting
    a study on the way in which gun-laying was performed by field artillery, 
    and used movie cameras to supplement observers with stop-watches, etc. 
    
    When the films were subsequently analyzed one of the boffins spotted one
    soldier standing perfectly still throughout the entire exercise -- nobody 
    knew why -- and much delving in military archives eventually unearthed the 
    nugget of information offered in .8.
    
    The result of all this, supposedly, is that the War Office began taking
    scientific studies more seriously and coined the name "Operational Analysis"
    to cover them.

    Jim

>    Win, place and show seems logical but...
>    
>    The 6-1 odds against winning don't seem a 'reasonably sure thing'
 
Silly me.  I should have spelt it out -- I guess I assumed EVEYBODY grew
up next to a race track.  At least where I came from, a "Win" bet only pays
if the nag comes in first.  A "Place" bet pays for first or second, and
a "Show" pays if it comes in first, second or third.  So a bookie might
offer to pay 6 to 1 on a Win, 2 to 1 on a Place and even money on a Show.

					>>>==>PStJTT

    RE .10
    
    6-1 first  2-1 second 1-1 third dosn't sound logical.
    
    Imagine a six horse race where all the entrants are equally matched.
    
    Any horse would stand a 6-1 chance of winning. Assuming it didn't
    win then any remaining horse of the other five would stand a 5-1
    chance of coming second and similarly 4-1 for third place.
    
    I have insufficient maths to enter into learned dialog but the
    difference between a 17% chance of winning and a 50% chance of coming
    second just don't seem to related. 
    
    If the horse stood only a 17% chance of winning then my *assumption*
    is that the chances of it being second will be *better* than the
    chances of it coming first but not *three times* better!
    
    Am I missing something?
    
    Bucko...
    

re .-1:

>    If the horse stood only a 17% chance of winning then my *assumption*
>    is that the chances of it being second will be *better* than the
>    chances of it coming first but not *three times* better!
>    
>    Am I missing something?
>    
>    Bucko...



Yes...

Larry    

    If I remember my statistics, the summations of the reciprocals of
    (odds + 1) should be less than 1.0, the difference being the
    bookmakers' profit. The odds are adjusted according to the amount
    of money betted on each nag. Come to think of it, I learned this
    in a numerical analysis course.

In a six horse race, there are 720 possible outcomes.  Of these 720, there are 
120 outcomes with a given horse in each of the six possible finishing positions.

If each horse has an equal chance of finishing in any of the six possible 
positions:

	For a win bet, the odds are 120 in 720, or 1 in 6.

	For a place bet, the odds are 240 (120 + 120) in 720, or 1 in 3.

	For a show bet, the odds are 360 (120 + 120 + 120) in 720, or 1 in 2.

Why don't all six-horse races pay 6-1, 3-1, and 2-1?  Obviously, each horse 
does not have an equal chance of finishing in each of the six possible 
positions.  That's what makes a horse race of it.

Q.E.D.

Larry-who's-going-Saratoga-next-weekend

    He's getting off at Saratoga for the 14th time.

    Whoops, wrong note.

.16�                           -< Saratoga => la grippe >-

    Gee...Saratogan is the name of a race horse over in these parts!!!
    

    1 in 6, 1 in 3, 1 in 2  = 5 to 1, 2 to 1 and even.
    

    The numbers are 6, 2, and even, and you call them odds?
    
         O  X  Y  M  O  R  O  N   !  !  !  !  !  !  !

    re: .0
    
    The fall guy you mean was called Wilmer.  He was played by Elisha Cook
    Jr.
    
    Julie

    Yes, and Wilmer was referred to as a "gunsel".  (This is a cue for
    someone to write up the gunsel story...)
    
�                             -< So, who's Wilbur? >-
    
    Wilbur was the owner of Mr. Ed, of course, of course.
    
    Ray