Conference thebay::joyoflex

    only is isn't an acronym, it is derived from a french word
    meaning to strike...as I remember...Bonnie RS where are you!
    but the words you are thinking of are for and unlawful
    
    Bonnie

    No one really knows the procise etymology of "fuck." However, the
    tale that it stands for For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge is nothing
    more than a tale.
    
    There are many possible candidates. Personally, I think it's probably
    very, very old, and has no traceable ancestors. The Latin verb "facere"
    (pronounced FACK-er-uh), meaning to make or to do, from which we get
    factory, facility, feces, and many other words has always sounded like
    the best candidate to me. But I suspect it's only a cognate, and they
    both come from some older word. 
    
    	Jon

    The reason i remember it as an acronym is because i read it in
    a 'slang' dictionary about 10 years ago...no doubt that they
    could have been wrong..
    
    

                <<< VISA::USER:[NOTES$LIBRARY]JOYOFLEX.NOTE;1 >>>
                              -< The Joy of Lex >-
================================================================================
Note 536.0                      universal acronym                      3 replies
ADVAX::MARSHALL                                       5 lines  24-JUN-1988 19:56
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I am not trying to offend anyone! The word f___ is universal i think
    there is a translation for it is almost every language  (don't
    know for sure). Anyway my question, the word is an acronym and i
    used to know what it stood for but can only remmber the last two
    C-ARNAL K-NOWLEDGE, does anyone know the first two...thanks

    �[Middle English *fucken*; a Germanic verb originally meaning
    "to strike, move quickly, penetrate" (akin to or perhaps
    borrowed from Middle Dutch *fokken*, to strike, copulate with);
    details uncertain owing to lack or early attestations.]�
    
    --- jerry

    Here I am -- I didn't get here sooner because we've been suffering
    extensive downtime after getting zapped by lightning several
    times.  Now whenever the systems in our building see a cloud, they
    shout "Down! Down! Storm at 12:00" and everything disappears. 
    
    Anyway, on to the subject at hand.  
    
    The truth is, nobody knows where this word came from.  It appears
    to have always been a word that was strongly disapproved of,
    and it may have been in existence for centuries before anybody
    wrote it down (around 1450, if I recall correctly).  So there
    are no written sources to call on and any theories of the word's
    origin will probably remain theories.
    
    Despite a long history of linguists claiming that "fuck" is
    associated with "to strike," the connection is speculative; the
    word is not even demostrably Germanic in origin [the "o" in
    "fokken" should have migrated to "i", not to "u"] and certainly
    isn't, as its reputation would have it, Anglo-Saxon.  It is
    probably not derived from the Latin word for "to make", but the
    words may be descended from a common Indo-European root.  Another
    possible Latin source is "pungo" [spelling questionable], meaning
    to prick or stick.  It might also be a disguised or variant form
    of "foutre", a French word for the same thing, that came to
    England no later than Shakespeare's time. 
    
    The earliest written accounts of this word are Scottish, whatever
    that means.
    
    "Fuck" was used as an acronym on signs of people being punished
    for certain kinds of adultery, but the word predates the acronym.
    It's more analogous to people getting together for a cause and
    picking out words that make up a good-sounding name, like MADD
    (Mothers Against Drunk Driving) or NOW (National Organization of
    Women). 

    --bonnie 

    I took a short story course in high school, and the teacher liked
    to focus on all aspects of a story - the form, format, sentence
    structure, choice of words, mood, etc.
    
    One day he walked up to the board and wrote down two words (I'll
    try not to be squeamish about this):  fuck and cunt.
    
    He claimed that the prior was an old some-country-or-other-ish word
    meaning "plow", and the latter was of the same etymology, and meant
    "furrow".
    
    He suggested next time we wanted to be backhandedly and obscurely
    rude to someone, we ask them to go "plow a furrow".
    
    he didn't cite any sources, though.
    
    -Jody
    

re: .4 (aka .0)

I believe the story that used to go around was that the London police when 
booking someone for rape would write "Forced Unlawful Carnal Knowlege" 
which then got turned into an acronym.  Many have looked, but none have 
found any police records to back this story up.  It is assumed to be 
false, and as such is "folk etimology" as my language professor would 
say (there's no way to convey the scorn with which the phrase should be 
spoken.)
					>>>==>PStJTT

    re: .7
    
    Interesting and quite possibly true -- I think your teacher had as
    much scholarly ground to stand on as the "to strike" people and
    considerably more than the acronym people.  
        
    In the farm country I come from, "plowing a furrow" is slang for
    the act in question. 

    re: .8
    
    I hadn't heard that particular etymology.  The slightly different
    "For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge" was actually used in jail records
    as an abbreviation a time or two.  Not common, however -- it might
    well have been some bored night clerk trying to be funny, or
    something. 
    
    --bonnie    

    Re .6:
    
    Not that I'm a linguist or anything, but the modern German is
    "fick", which would seem (assuming "o" migrated to "i") to be
    related to "fokken".  Whether this has any bearing on the origin
    of the English word, I don't know.
    
    >M

    Can anyone explain how this word (and some of its variants like
    "screw") acquired the additional, and nearly opposite, meaning of
    "treat badly"?
    
    len.
     

    Re .9: "ploughing a furrow" has also been widely used in English
    English. There are a number of other colourful rustic variants (most
    of them too rude to mention here).

    re .11 (Len):
    
    Because often the act was something forced upon one partner (i.e.,
    violent or intimidatory rape).  In that case, it might have satisfied
    the initiator but have been a bad experience for the other person
    involved.  "I've been f*****" means that the speaker didn't like
    the experience, as in "I've been raped."
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    
>    Re .9: "ploughing a furrow" has also been widely used in English
>    English. There are a number of other colourful rustic variants (most
>    of them too rude to mention here).

    Re .12:
    
    My curiosity is piqued!  What, pray tell, could be more rude than
    FU*K?  Not to mention the C-word!  But seriously, be forthcoming.
    I think that anyone who has read this far without slamming the note
    shut can take it.
    
    Scott

     Hmmm.  Let's use CRV as an acronym for "colourful rustic
     variant"!
     
     Dan

    	'Let's use CRV as an acronym for "colourful rustic variant"!'

    Let's not. There's starting to be a world-wide shortage of TLAs. They
    are a limited resource.
    
    I don't see what the problem is with discussing this. This is a
    conference devoted to language topics. Colorful terms are part of the
    language. Discussing the forms, uses, etc. of colorful terms is far
    different from using them. 
    
    If you'd like -- purely in the interests of philology, of course -- we
    could demonstrate actually using colorful terms, so we all know the
    difference between using them and discussing them. 
    
    	Jon

    	As long as you restrict the use to well known political figures
    rather than members of the conference - we wouldn't want to cause
    any offence, would we?    :-)

    G'day 
    
    Australia used to have a Country Party for the farmers and the like.
    
    There is a legendary story of an MP who replied to a question about
    policies of his party with
    
    "I'm a Country member"
    
    To which his questioner replied, " Ahh yes, I remember."
    
    Needless to say the party faded soon after.
     
    djw

    in re .16
    
    um, Jon, how are you planning to demonstrate ???
    
    from an enquiring mind...
    
    :-)
    
    Bonnie

    Oh... I don't know... Whatever comes to mind... Didn't Cleese once
    do a sketch like this?
    
    	Jon

    well...go on....
    
    B

    Do I need to volunteer for this, too? 
    
    Tamzen

   re: .16, .19 & .21
    
    Whereas contextual use of colourful terms such as these may serve
    to better illustrate their semantics in varying literary environments,
    I think perhaps there are alternatives to the actual use of such
    vile and fetid verbage.  One such alternative would be to substitute
    more socially acceptable euphemisms in place of the more ribald
    words.  For example:
    
       "Will you just look at the way that parked car is moving so
    rythmically in spear-like thrusts?  I suspect that a High Colonic 
    Boloney Implant is being administered inside!"  Or perhaps:

       "I had my salary review yesterday and got not a raise, but a
    Traumatic Rectal Ham Lancing instead!"
    
    Another alternative to the literal use of these notorious expletives
    would be to replace strategically chosen letters in the word with
    a harmless, non-alphabetic character.  Lets return to the second
    example, above, to illustrate:
    
       "I had my salary review yesterday and got not a raise, but got
    Fucked in the *ss instead!"  Here, judicious use of an asterisk...
    er, *sterisk... has prevented actual dirty word viewage from occurring.
    I hope this has been of some help.
    
                             Thx,
                                Rgdz,
                                    Scott
    
    
    

    re .22:
    
    Well, you don't *need* to, but it might help, this being JoyoFlex, not
    Human_Relations.
    
    Well, okay, here goes, an actual use of a colorful phrase:
    

    Warning: the word 'fucker' appears after the next form feed.

    
    Tamzen sure is a cute little darling, ain't she?
    
    

    How come the original discussion around TFW (That Famous Word) is
    so suddenly aborted?
    Does it help when I add here the meaning of the Dutch word "fokken":
    "to breed"? Maybe it's "folk etymology", but in my view, they both
    seem to have the same root.
    
    Arie

>    Does it help when I add here the meaning of the Dutch word "fokken":
>    "to breed"? Maybe it's "folk etymology", but in my view, they both
>    seem to have the same root.
    
And the word is the first part of the official greeting of New York (the
rest being "you, Mack.")  Since New York was a Dutch colony, you may
have something... 
				>>>==>PStJTT

    Oh well, just got back to this. One old-English word is
    
    				ROGER
    
    I think its gone out of usage now - maybe not in rural parts. The
    in-word now is
    
    				BOFF
    
    (from the French). This used to be an upper-class usage (typically
    in gambling circles - I recall in an article about Lord Lucan who
    preferred gambling to sex performing the odd "boffe de politesse"

    
    Gives the flag name "Jolly Roger" a whole new meaning .
    
    Roger and out
    
    John J

    G'day 
    
    
    .... and presumably scientists are pre-occupied with it too?
    
    
    djw
    

    re:.29
    
    Gives new meaning to "Roger Rabbit", too...
    
    --- jerry

    re .28
    
>        				BOFF
    
>    (from the French). This used to be an upper-class usage (typically
>    in gambling circles - I recall in an article about Lord Lucan who
>    preferred gambling to sex performing the odd "boffe de politesse"

    There's no BOFF word in French, but perhaps you mean the colloquial
    verb "bouffer". The problem is that "bouffer" means "to eat", so what 
    does it have to do with sex ? Eh ?
    
    "Une bouffe de politesse" would mean that the Lords eat out of 
    politeness  (courtesy has no limit in the gambling circles).
    
    Back to "fuck", couldn't be some derivation of Lat "fornicare" ?            

    	roger (still in use in the rural parts)

>    	roger (still in use in the rural parts)

Are you, now? 

Gavin

>>	< Note 536.33 by FNYFS::WYNFORD "Scribbling Loon" >
>>	                                  -< Giggle >-

>>	>    	roger (still in use in the rural parts)

>>	Are you, now? 
    
    Surely you mean:
    
    	"Are they, now?"
    
    i.e "Roger's rural parts are still in use ..."

>>>	< Note 536.33 by FNYFS::WYNFORD "Scribbling Loon" >
>>>	                                  -< Giggle >-

>>>	>    	roger (still in use in the rural parts)

>>>	Are you, now? 
    
>    Surely you mean:
    
>    	"Are they, now?"
    
>    i.e "Roger's rural parts are still in use ..."

No. I mean, "Roger is still in use in rural parts." For what purpose, I am 
not sure.....

Gavin