Conference thebay::joyoflex

    It's something like "Woe to he who evil thinks of it". What "it"
    is, I'm not sure. Possibly the royal coat of arms. Reminds me of
    my old school motto "Gardez Bien" (French rather than Latin - it
    was only a comprehensive school!). That meant "Keep well", but we
    never found out what we were supposed to be keeping...
    
    Andy

    Moreover:
    
    I *think* that it's actually medieval French in origin, and that it's
    the motto of the Royal House of Windsor. The Windsors, of course,
    began with - erm - ah - you know, whatsisname the thingummyth...

    My memory's a bit hazy, but....
    
    This is tied up with the "Order of the Garter". The garter fell
    from a lady at the court of King ???. He gallantly picked it up saying
    "Honi soit......". Subsequently, the Order of the Garter was
    established as one of the highest honours in the land, and is still
    awarded to this day. There's only a few of them and they tend to
    include retired Prime Ministers and the like - and of course they
    all wear a garter as part of their regalia. 

First, forgive .1 - the network dropped while I was trying to reply.

I don't know when the motto appeared on the coat of arms.

It translates as "Evil to him who thinks evil."  From "Sir Gawain and the 
Green Knight".  Middle English, circa 1370, although the quote is in a French 
(not Middle English) dialect.

Larry

    "Honi soit qui mal y pense" is the motto of the Knights of the Garter.
    I think the Order of the Garter is always conferred in a ceremony
    at Windsor, or that the Knights (a limited number, something like
    26) are based (in some way) at Windsor - which would account for
    the Windsor association (.3).
    
    The motto isn't (and I don't think it's ever been) on a monarch's
    coat of arms. To recap: it's all based on an event involving a
    garter that slipped down from its proper place during a royal
    occasion. Everyone was aghast (this was in the days before Janet
    Reger), except one person (the monarch, I think) who bent down and
    returned the garter to its owner, saying 'The only shame involved
    should be the shame on those who think this is shameful' (or words
    to that effect).  As the court language was French, his actual words 
    were 'Honi soit qui mal y pense'. Maybe the King in question was
    pretty erudite, translating a quotation from Sir Gawain at the same
    time as de-fusing a potentially embarassing siuation.
    
    The motto on the monarch's coat of arms is 'Dieu et mon droit' -
    usually translated (unhelpfully) as 'God and my right'. I
    have an idea - unproven, because the British Library wouldn't
    let me look at the earliest available French translation of
    the Bible while I was researching something else - based on
    two facts:
    
    	Modern French Bibles have the phrase 'Dieu est ma justice' 
    	(or some such word) somewhere in the Old Testament

        Old French manuscripts - before the Acad�mie fixed the spelling -
        used to alternate fairly erratically between 'et' and 'est'
        when transcribing the French word derived from Latin 'est'
    
    The idea: 'Dieu e[s]t mon droit' was a statement of the Divine Right of
    Kings, borrowed as a quote from the only available Bible in the
    language of the English court when an English monarch first adopted
    that principle. 
    
    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
    
    Bob ('Hair-brained scheme') Knowles
    
    

    Re .4, .6: I cannot recall the name of the lady in question, nor
    the name of the king. However, I have come across anumber of references
    to the incident: it was believed that the garter was worn by members
    of the two royal covens (each numbering 13 of course) and that the
    king was the master of one of them. Hence everybody being aghast,
    but the king played it off well.

From:	PLATA::EDWARDS "Only 15 Billion years later  22-Jan-1988 1231" 22-JAN-1988 12:31
To:	@SOCIAL,EDWARDS     
Subj:	


Anybody who knows:


	Doesn anybody out there in @social land know what the phrase

	DUIT ON MON DEI

	means?  Is it French?  Has anyone seen it before and where?


			Thanks for any assistance.


				John

    re .8: it looks like a badly scrambled version of "Dieu [aarrgh
    - I'm sure that spelling is wrong?!] et mon droit", which means
    "God and my right". If I recall it used to appear on British coinage
    and was some sort of a royal motto.

    re "DUIT ON MON DEI"
    
    Means nothing at all in French.
    
    In Latin, 'dei' is the genitive form of 'deus' (god). 'Duit' could
    be present or perfect form of a verb; alas, there's no such verb, 
    [except an archaic form of optative subjonctive for 'do' (to give), 
    but that's really rare and far-fetched]. 'On' & 'Mon' means nothing 
    per se, and are not amongst the usual abbreviations. So I doubt
    very much that the sentence could be Latin.
    
    'Duit' could be Dutch, but I'm not sure.
     
    I wouldn't be surprised if it was just an other spelling for
    "Do it on Monday", as suggested in .-2.
    
	roger    
    

    Rather like being issued with "Round Tuits" to get your job done.

    
    
    RE.12
    
     Believe it or not there is a company in the U.S.A. that manufactures
    round tuits. they are things you put under hot pots when you place
    them on the table, normally called truits.
    

     So....now, for the person who always says I'll do it when I get
    around to it (round tuit) has no more excuses if someone were to
    get this person one for a gift
    
                     Chuck
    

    in re .14 "normally called truits"
    
    it is "trivets" :-) :-)

    I thought "truit" was what the pitcher did to a baseball.

    No, it's what happens to your neighbor's window. The baseball goes
    "truit".

    
    
    RE: .14
    
       Yes your right!!! They are called trivets
    
       My mistake
    
      Chuck
    

    When I grew up, a truit was someone who played hookey, not baseball.

    I thought a truit was a kind of fish.
    
    --bonnie

    Re: .18
    
    > Yes your right
    
    It should be 'you're right,' unless, of course, you refer to his
    moral right to correct you.
    
    Bernie

  in re .21 Bernie....um another nit...refering to 'his moral right
    to correct' I am a her....:-)
   
    
    and also Bonnie...well if you don't know the difference between
    a truit and a trout...would you and Neal and the kids like to
    come to our place for a fish dinner :-)
    
    Bonnie Jeanne

    Actually, a "truit" is an ancient Celtic priest with problems in
    articulation.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    I know this is I digression, but I couldn't resist.
    
    
< [...] MARKER::KALLIS "Why is everyone getting uptight?" >

    Because they went to bed that way.
    
    	Jon

    Re .24 (Jon):
    
    >Because they went to bed that way.
    
    Beyond sleeping it off, eh?
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr. 
    
    
    Yes, iot's a digression, but it deserveed a reply

    > Yes, iot's a digression
    
    No it's not, it's a trap on a PDP-11.
    
    Jeff :-)

re. .23: 

>    Actually, a "truit" is an ancient Celtic priest with problems in
>    articulation.


Sort of like the old chestnut:

	Q. What goes "Marf!, Marf!"

	A. A dog with a hairlip.


Larry

    Re: .22
    
    A thousand pardons (well, perhaps a hundred will do).  You didn't
    sign .15 so I had to guess.  I was too lazy too write "his or her;" 
    had too much self-respect to write "his/her."
    
    Bernie                                     

    in re .28 I shall try to be more careful about signing each note
    I write...but I refuse to sign notes in word-assoc-football.
    
    Bonnie