Conference school::sports_memorabilia

    
    Yes.
    
    Have you also noticed any increase in the type of advertising in SCD?
    Like an increase of "Blowout - Going Out of Business" ads?  I only
    read SCD about once every few months, as an regular reader have you
    noticed the content of the ads changing?
    
    I think the 1989 UD Factory is also the seperate issue of all the
    sudden UD "found" a bunch of 89 factories in a wharehouse. 
    	Anyone else hear something like this?  Now there is much
    more supply then folks thought being reflected in the real world
    marketplace.  
    
    I guess the concept of there being more product than investors 
    percieve, can probably be generalized to anything > 1976.
    
    jeff
    
    
    

    Jeff,  I don't see many ads like that, but I have noticed that some of
    the past big time advertisers such as Big Bob's, New York Card Company
    etc. have disappeared. They had a big story  on  Big Bob's awhile back
    and the problems they ran into. SCD used to come  in  two sections for
    awhile, but now they're back to one section. Used to be over 300 pages
    and now they're lucky if they hit 200.
    
    John

    I think like anything else it has to level off or even decrease.
    There is no way the market could have kept climbing the way it was.
    Alot of people are jsut fed up (like me) with the flooding of sets
    inserts, sub sets, sub sub sets, etc....
    
    I still think if you put the sets away now (like the 70's) they will be
    worth something later on.  Until then us true "hobbyists" will keep
    collecting and hopefully be rewarded by prcies coming down and some of
    the flooded market starting to drain.  The strong will survive like
    UD, Topps, Fleer, maybe Bowman, Classic...
    
    Mike

    Have you also noticed the decrease at the local card shows??  The
    dealers are muddering under their breathe, this s_cks, its terrible,
    its going to be a long day, wish I was home watching the game, like to 
    sell out if someone would make me a fair offer for  all this stuff.
    I see less and less dealers at the small shows, and new faces all the 
    time.  I think its effected the whole industry and I predict a further
    slide.

    re: -1
    
    Same is true for South Carolina.  All the dealers whine about not being
    able to sell stuff.  I went to a show recently and probably 1/3 of the
    tables were 50% off deals.  this was the older stuff, much of it in
    good condition.
    
    I think the fact that there are so many card shops also hurts the show
    biz.  I can go to shops and either trade with others that go there or
    the dealer.  As a result people don't need to go to shows as much any
    more to fill want lists.  IMHO less the better, this hobby needs to
    calm down.  It shouldn't be like the stock market.
    
    Jon

    The cash flow into the market has declined noticeably.  Show recipts
    for dealers are way off.  The guys that are blowing stuff out are 
    taking in the same dollars but at break even or a loss.  ( I saw Topps
    wax all weekend at 2 boxes for 29.00 ).  UD has filed for protection.
    Topps stock fell 19% qtr to qtr.  Worst of all though, the kids have
    stopped feeding the monster.  I think that more shake out is on the
    horizon.  Good stuff will get cheap-cheap stuff will be sold at
    distress prices.  (example- at the end of the 92 baseball card season
    45 million dollars worth of product was returned to Upper Deck
    by the chain stores).  I was offfered 10 skids of sealed upper
    deck baseball at 8.00/box.  Had to take it all.  I passed.
    
    It may well be that the old maxim regarding collectors ( as told
    by dealers ) may be true, but in a very ironic way.  The maxim:
    
    The one with the cards at the end of the show.............loses.
    
    As most of yoyu know I've been deeply into this stuff for years-
    I've cut back my "investments" dramatically 14 months ago.
    Until something big happens ( ie BUBBA turns the economy,
    or a dramatic change in product or renewed interest or
    the Red Sox win the pennant ) I'm rescaling further.
    
    It is as they say folks a buyers market.
    
    Mike

    While in Minnesota a couple weeks ago, I found a dealer that had the
    50% off sign in the window. I went in and looked around. I found
    Carl Yaztremski's, Larry Birds, Willy Mays, Ernie Banks and even
    BOBBY ORR cards at 50% off. It wasn't 50% off of BBC high. It was
    based on 50% off a price set on the condition of the card. There
    were cards from 1958 up to 1980. Mint cards to VG.
    
    I spent alot of time talking to the dealer. He had very little wax
    products. He stated that he couldn't compete in the wax space anymore.
    BJ's, Costco, SAMS, Target, etc.... have killed his profit. All he
    bought and sold for wax was current hot stuff and that was at 1 or 2
    boxes at a time.
    
    Older cards weren't selling. He had the business for over 8 years. He
    was a retired policeman that had collected for years. At first he made
    money. Even last year (1991) was okay but then it died. He was selling
    off some of his better stuff to get cash to buy things that still
    sell at shows in Minn (Puckett's, Killebrew's, etc....). He's going
    to do security work and do shows now and then. He was quite frustrated
    at the major card makers (Upperdeck going chapter 7 won't have hurt
    his feelings).
    
    He also felt the insert craze has significantly hurt dealers. Sets
    are so cheap singles don't sell (anyone want a Leaf 92 set, cheap!).
    Gold cards in Leaf and now Topps are killing the set prices further.
    
    I spent alot of $$$ there. He let me take all his inventory of 1958 to
    1970 and pull all Red Sox (along with my childhood hero's, a Carol
    Hardy from 59 before he was traded to Boston to "replace" Ted Williams,
    a Bob Tillman in a Braves uniform, great stuff). He then sold them to
    me very cheaply (less then $.50 a card, some were mint some VG).
    
    I bought a 59 Ernie Banks (mint) for $20, a 61 Mays MVP card for $15
    (mint), 9 Bobby Orrs (2 1975/76 for $10 each), I picked up a couple
    of Al Kaline cards for one of the noters (whose is from Detroit and
    old enough to remember his rookie year) cheap.
    
    I also got almost the complete 1967 Red Sox, Tony and Billy C. cards.
    4 Frank Malzone's (my grandmother's all-time favorite), Rico
    Petrocelli's, Jim Lonborg's, etc..... 
    
    It is a buyers market. It's alot of fun buying my childhood hero's.
    If it wasn't for the card makers they wouldn't be affordable and I'd
    have missed out on real collecting....... Now if I could stay away from
    today's product and spend more wisely ............ off to open
    a box of 1992-93 UpperDeck Baseball, I'm sure there's a Willie
    Mays' autograph in it..............
    
    Steve  
    

    Re: All
    
    I know in the Fitchburg / Leominster  area  alone there are about 7
    card shops. Some I don't  know  how  they  stay in business because
    their prices are just way too high. I don't mind paying a few bucks
    over show prices,  but when it's 40-50% higher I'll pass.  It's not
    like a few years ago  when  something  new  came out and they could
    price it 100% higher  and  people  would  still buy it. People will
    wait now,  especially those  who  got  burned. I remember people in
    here buying the first SkyBox Basketball cards  for as high as 80$ a
    wax box and at the last BG show  you  could  get them for 8$ a box.
    The Dominoes Pizza QB was  going  for  about  40$ last year and now
    it's about 5$ a set. The first year of Pacific Trading football and
    Upper Deck football was the same thing.
    
    As far as the kids though, they probably realized that those prices
    listed in Beckett's don't  really  mean  much unless you're buying.
    The last show I went to a kid  was  trying  to sell some cards to a
    dealer and he told the dealer  they were worth so much in Beckett's
    and the dealer had to tell the  kid  that  he  had  plenty and just
    didn't need them even if he gave him half of what Beckett's said. I
    gave a friend of mine's nephews two 3200 count boxes of cards going
    back to 1987, all sorted  and  they weren't just commons either. He
    said one of his nephews took his box, pulled all the cards and went
    through a Beckett's to see how much they were worth. I gave him the
    cards to have fun with, not to see how much they were worth.
    
    Like someone said there are  less  and  less tables at these shows.
    While some are 50% off, there are still those dealers who still try
    and hype everything,  won't bargain at all  and  treat you like you
    owe them something  and  they're  doing you a favor just talking to
    you.  Then there are other dealers who go out of their way to help,
    talk to you about what so and so is hitting etc. These are the guys
    I'll do my business with  and  if I pay a couple bucks more than so
    what.
    
    One thing that  should  be  mentioned though is that card companies
    aren't helping much either.  Prices are just too high and they make
    too many products. You have to be  very  selective in what you buy,
    whether you're a collector or a dealer.
    
    John

    I can't believe UD is Chapter 7, already.  I think the card companies 
    are to blame, and this is what I propose:
    
    	A) The card companies slash production and eliminate all but one
           line, per sport, preferably their top-line product, ie. Pinnacle
           Baseball card line by SCORE, and eliminate all the other junk.
    
    	B) Price their card packs as if we were back in the 1950's, 5c per
    	   pack, with 8 or 10 cards per pack, and they must be wax-packs.
    
    	C) Must put the gum back in the wax-pack.  Since TOPPS abandoned
           the gum idea, this should be no problem with other companies
    	   using the idea.
    
    	D) Card companies cannot sell sets, nor sell to Department Stores, 
    	   this has "killed" the business.

    I LOVE IT!!!!!!! Not too long ago, I kept reading how some of you guys
    were hoping that "Topps would get their act together and starts producing a
    quality product, in limited quantities". Something about making cards
    for the serious investor, or some such drivvle. Anyway, I for one am
    happy to see everybody (well, not EVERYBODY) throw away the cards just
    to get at the inserts! I'm currently looking for a few Classic hockey
    cards of the girl goalie. I'll pay $1 per card. Any takers? I'll wait.
    Also, my son has purchased as many Mattingly rookies that he wants, at
    $8 to $10 each, but he'll still buy more for $4 or $5. He'll also wait.
    
    Does the phrase, "you reap what you sow" mean anything to anyone?
    
    regards,
    dennis
    
    

    
    >	A) The card companies slash production and eliminate all but one
    >       line, per sport, preferably their top-line product, ie. Pinnacle
    >       Baseball card line by SCORE, and eliminate all the other junk.
    >
    >	B) Price their card packs as if we were back in the 1950's, 5c per
    >	   pack, with 8 or 10 cards per pack, and they must be wax-packs.
    
    How do you expect card companies to make a profit by slashing
    production and selling packs for $0.05 (greatly increasing demand and
    then reducing the supply in response)?  This sounds like a scheme to 
    make dealers (speculators, hoarders) and "investors" rich before the 
    card company goes under in about five minutes...
    
    Personally, I don't see why so much attention is paid to production
    figures (actually, the lack thereof).  Anyone who believes that a card
    company is going to make *less* cards at a given price than the market
    will bear just so that collectors can cash in on bonafide "investments" 
    is seriously naive.  That's not the business they're in, even if that's
    their claim.
    
    For me, if a card company produces a decent card at a reasonable price
    then I don't care if they make ten billion of the things.  I think the
    strategy of trying to pass off "premium" cards in "limited" numbers 
    has burned these companies badly.  Buyers have figured out the game.
    Gold-stamp some cards to make them pretty and quadruple the price?
    It's a rip-off.  And the card collecting business is almost unique with
    its layer of middleman retailers of *new product* dealing in wanton
    speculation, suggested retail price be damned.  It's hardly a surprise 
    that these establishments are now going under; their mode of operation
    was a disgrace to the industry in the first place...  
    
    glenn
    
    

Good points Glenn. I could care less what the production runs are and I don't
make purchases based on that.  Investors will though.  I love it when dealers
or a company  spokesperson  says  something  like  "Collectors want a premium
product with limited print runs".  Heck,  I want a premium product that costs
less.

As far as the inserts go,  I wish they'd  go  back  to  the days of inserting
things like  Baseball Bucks,  Coins,  Stamps,  etc.  One per pack.  Something
different than cards to collect. I also wish they'd pay more attention to the
actual game of baseball  and  skip  trying  to  get every Tom, Dick and Harry
Rookie in their sets  and  releasing next year's cards the year before.  What
does a kid learn  about  baseball  from  today's cards - not much. They don't
have leader cards anymore,  or World Series cards,  team cards, no historical
cards showing players  from  the past.  I used to love those cards like "Mays
Makes Catch", "Haddix PItches 12 Perfect Innings" etc. The companies load the
sets with players that may not  even  make  the  big leagues to enhance their
investment potential.  Kids nowadays  only  care about getting some card that
lists for so much in Beckett's. 

The companies need to get back  to  making baseball cards, not stock certifi-
cates.

John
    

    Some of the random inserts today are ok by me, it adds something to
    the pack opening experience.  I don't think going back to one per
    pack is really what I'd want to see, but those inserts of our youth
    were certainly more fun and kept you focused more on just plain
    old collecting. 

    John, I think you've hit the nail on the head with the non-informative 
    nature of today's cards.  I used to really like all Team Leader and 
    action play flashback cards of older football, they taught you something 
    and were interesting.  The early 70s baseball I collected were fun
    to read and much more interesting than reading some of today's cards.

    Nowadays the cards are less interesting and kids seem to turn 
    to the Beckett as the "interesting" thing to pay attention to.
    So the companies have let the almighty profit motive take them
    from promoting fun and education (reading!) to promoting investing
    and greed.  Capitalism is not always pretty but it is a
    system that corrects excesses, we have had the excesses, it will
    "interesting" to follow the inevitable changes.

    jeff

    Call me naughty, but I had to reprint this one for Y'all.
    
 
I thought there may be some interest in this story from
today's Wall Street Journal.  It is reprinted in part without
permission.
 
NEW YORK - Baseball-card stocks were hit by the news that market
leader Topps Co. will report its first quarterly loss in more than
a decade.
   Topps - which experienced strong insider selling last year - sank
31%, to $8.50 from $12.25, on seven times its usual volume.  Late
Monday, after the close of the market, the company said that a
"market contraction" would result in a loss for its fourth quarter
ending Feb. 28.
   The announcement sent shares of several other companies in the
sports-memorabilia business south yesterday.  Among them was Marvel
Entertainment Group, the comic book giant that purchased card 
manufacturer Fleer Corp. last September.  Shares of Marvel, which
according to analysts get half its revenue from Fleer, slid $3.375, or 12%
to $21.75 on heavy trading.
   "The speculative bubble has burst in the new cards," said Robert
Lifson, president of Robert Edward Auctions Inc, a Hoboken NJ auctioneer
of sports memorabilia.  "Speculators are not buying 100 cases and
putting them in their garage, because they haven't been rewarded for
doing that.
   In the new environment, Mr Lifson said, "there isn't room for as many
companies to put out as much as they do and to be profitable."
   As reported in this column Oct 14, Topps president, John Langdon,
sold all his 100,000 Topps shares in June and July of last year.
Earlier in 1992 came sales totaling 628,860 shares by four other
Topps insiders, including the chief financial officer and Theodore
Forstmann, a principal in investment firm Forstmann, Little and Co.
   Forstmann Little held a majority stake in Topps but distributed
it to limited partners in late 1991.  All the insiders sold their shares
at prices ranging from $15.375 to $19.  The stock began its slide from
that range in December on disappointing third quarter earnings.
  Authur T. Shorin, Topps chairman, said in an interview yesterday
that Mr. Langdon had sold his shares to buy a house and that the other
insiders trimmed their holdings for personal reasons.  While there is a
shake-out under way among card manufacturers, he said, it will be the 
weaker competitors, not Topps, that get taken out of the game.
   (STUFF REMOVED)
   After the Topps announcement, Shearson, Lehman Brothers analyst
Edward Cimilluca slashed his earnings estimate on Topps to 75 cents a share
from $1.18 this year and to 90 cents a share from $1.25 for the year ending Feb 
28, 1994.  He also changed his rating on the stock to "underperform,
high risk", from "buy, high risk".
  (MORE STUFF DELETED)
   Prices of three other sports and sportscard companies that trade over the 
counter also fell yesterday on higher than usual volume.
   Score Board, Inc was off $1.50 to $22.50.
   In the sports card market, dealers estimate that prices are down
about 10% on pre-1970's cards and as much as 40% for 1980's baseball cards.
Robert Wynne, who covers the industry for Tuff Stuff, said the oversupply
"has choked the goose that laid the golden egg".
 


VMSmail To information: AUNTB::PARKERJ
Sender's personal name: DOUG ROSS @CBO 367-6465  27-Jan-1993 1314
    

    
    	Even BJ's is showing signs of the interest decline in 
    	trading cards, I went over there today and the trading
    	card section has been reduced to a little corner on the
    	cigarette section counter, and there were very few boxes
    	there, it's almost non-existent.

    BJ's in Nashua has moved their cards from behind the tobacco counter
    to the book section and it is reduced in size also. I thought it might
    be the lack of product that came out in the past 3-4 weeks but then
    thought better of it .... Hoops II, Fleer I, Upperdeck 1993 BB, and
    on and on and on......
    
    Steve

    My next two cents....Personally, I don't think that Topps or any other
    card maker ever gave a single thought to stuffing as many rookies as
    possible into the sets in the hopes of having investors or collectors
    buy cases of their products. I believe they stuffed as many rookies as
    possible into their sets so that you'd have to buy 12 wax boxes to get
    close to a single complete set of cards. I stopped collecting sets when
    Score went to a 900 card set. GIVE ME A BREAK! Didn't any of you guys
    collect the complete set of cards when you were kids? Sure, opening the
    packs is tons of fun...but I always thought the point was to complete
    the set. The inserts are the closest thing to marketing genious these
    guys have ever come up with. Instead of having to purchase 12 boxes to
    complete a set, we'll put one insert card in every 20 boxes...and make
    it a 20 card insert set! Oh boy! We're sure having some fun now!
    
    

    Re: .17
    
    I think you're wrong about  companies  not giving a single thought
    about putting all the rookies in their sets. Once the 1984 Donruss
    Don Mattingly  card  skyrocketed  the  big  emphasis was on rookie
    cards and that's  what  sold  a company's set. Topps has even said
    this with respect to  them  being  the only company last year with
    Brien Taylor. The companies would load their sets with rookies who
    were two  or  three years away, hadn't even played in the bigs yet
    and that was part of their selling point because it had the poten-
    tial of being a great investment with all the rookies.
    
    While everyone hated Bowman cards  when  they  first came out, now
    you're starting to see articles  how  the 1990 Bowman set had this
    player and that player way  before  everyone  else. And that was a
    small set.
    
    When I was a kid there  were  only  16-20 teams, Topps was the only
    company and you had seven series. While no one ever bought complete
    boxes,  chances are you  could  get  the  whole series buying a few
    packs each day or so and trading with friends. Back then though you
    usually collected certain players or teams  and there wasn't really
    an emphasis on complete sets.
    
    John

Subj:	Notefile MARKET_INVESTING Note 377.4
         <<< SUBWAY::DISK$D1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]MARKET_INVESTING.NOTE;1 >>>
                             -< Market Investing >-
================================================================================
Note 377.4                       baseball cards?                          4 of 5
                           33 lines   9-FEB-1993 13:54
                             -< articles in paper >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just read two articles in the paper the last week that
have bearing on this.  One of them was similar to .3
which indicated the *dramatic* decline of baseball's
popularity citing that only 6% named a baseball team when
naming their favorite team and only 4% named a baseball
player when naming their favorite athlete.  It also pointed
out that

  - there is no national baseball contract for weekly
    games
  - many kids growing up today have *never* seen a
    world series game to completion

Do you remember the excitement of catching World Series
scores when in school?  Rushing home at the bell to catch
the last few innings on t.v. or radio?

Baseball, for numerous reasons, is in decline.  Collectables
are dependent upon collectors which is dependent upon interest
in the sport.

The other article discussed card collecting specifically noting
that the market is oversaturated, that some companies are *losing*
money and that many people who got in as investors are starting
to get out (because the sport itself does not hold them to
stay in - only money which isn't necessarily there).  Collecting
is starting to go back to being done by collectors, but this still
has quite a ways to go.  Sounds to me like now is a bad time to
get into collecting, but that if you must, get quality cards from
the 60s and 70s which have a relatively stable price and you can
hope that they will continue to rise.  

    John, I moved your note over here since this topic kind of dealt with
    the note you posted. Anyway, I like the guy's comment that it doesn't
    look like it's a good time  to  get  into card collecting. I think he
    meant it's not a good time to get into card investing.
    
    With the new taxes,  I  mean  contributions, we'll be getting whacked
    with in a little while, there'll be even less money for cards. What's
    the number of BTU's generated by burning 1,000 commons ...
    
    John

>>    With the new taxes,  I  mean  contributions, we'll be getting whacked
>>    with in a little while, there'll be even less money for cards. What's
>>    the number of BTU's generated by burning 1,000 commons ...
    
    It all depends on the manufactuer, I've found that topps stoge pretty
    good  when stuffed in the blaze in 800 count boxes.  The premium
    quality cards like UD go pretty good too, they burn with lots of color
    from inks or finishes I guess.   I was ahead of the pack I geuss in
    using alternative energy sources.  
    
    Jon

    Judging from the amount of entries lately (and most of those have been
    wanted or for sale notes), I'd say that interest in card collecting or
    investing is definitely  on  the  down  swing.  Personally speaking, I
    can't get into it as much as before. Wax boxes cost 30$ or 40$ and you
    then you get idiot dealers saying collectors aren't paying as much for
    cards as they should. I think this will be the last year for me.  I'll
    finish the sets I started  on  this year,  but that'll be it. The cost
    doesn't justify it anymore. 
    
    John

    
    	I went through that very same stage some time ago, and I decided to
    	stay away from the Sports trading cards, I'm now strictly a non-sport
	collector and I enjoy that much better than I did when I was collecting
	sports cards, there is much more variety of subjects, the prices are 
    	more reasonable and they're more fun, as far as I'm concerned.
    
			Juan

    I quit collecting basebal, sold all my football, never really collected
    basketball anyway.  Now I just buy some not all hockey cards available. 
    Interest is definetly on the down slide as far as I am concerned.  I
    cannot justify buying cards aat up to 55 bucks a box.  I am collecting
    bruins cards and memorabilia for the enjoyment of collecting.  Never
    really was a money thing, it is nice though to feel like if you decide
    to sell it all you can get what you paid for it.
    
    Jon

    
    I agree ... sports card collecting seems to be slowing down and I've
    seen at least two pieces of evidence.
    
    1) On my ride home I used to be able to hit about 8 shops if I wandered
       a little.  In the 6 months at least 3 of them have bit the dust.
    
    2) My mail order catalogs have much better selection of old stuff
       available these days with lots of specials on mere stars 
       (Killebrew, etc).  Only the real high end old stuff (Mays, Ryan) is
       hard to find and high priced.
    
    
    Greg
    
    
    

I've definitely lost interest.  I used to go to a show or two a month, stop
in at card stores in the Nashua area a couple of times a week and trade
regularly in this conference.  After Shaq-mania I'm burnt out.  More
specifically for me it's the inserts that have ruined it.  I haven't touched
a card in two or three months, though I do still read this conference.

I've collected NBA HOOPS cards since '89.  Pretty good cards at a reasonable
price.  This year, with the slim chance of getting a Shaq insert, the Series II
boxes started out at $60 and when up from there.  Sorry, but the quality of
those cards just isn't worth that much money.  I wish they would issue a
non-insert offering.


Dan

    I'm not ready to jump ship yet. True, boxes have become overpriced,
    and dealers are scum, but there is still a lot of fun to be had in
    collecting. You have to be selective, and you can't get swallowed by
    the insert hype. (who can afford to?) 
    
    I've always been a big basketball collector, but last year was just too
    much. I'm enjoying football much more of late, probably because it
    hasn't been beat into my head like basketball did last year. 

    It's still a lot of fun to collect the players and teams that you
    like. At least the common cards. 
    
    Now, who's got a '92 Bowman Anthony Carter to trade me?.... 
    
    -dennis

    I think it's ok if you decide to wait.  For example, Fleer Ultra II
    hoop.  Everyone knew it wasn't worth $100+/box.  Now it goes for what,
    $60 maybe?  Give it another month and it will come back to where it
    should be.  How much are the Triple Crown inserts now?  I bet they're
    a lot cheaper than last February.
    

    
    I think it's easy to get soured when you like to collect sets from one
    or more sports, it has become too much $$.  I'm still having mucho fun
    collecting one team, from one sport.  Trying to get all the cards is
    actually a fun pursuit (although you can easily run into the money
    blues too, especially when you start going for the older cards; anyone
    want to buy a redskins collection, '48-present? ;-)
    
    I agree the general fun is waning, it's the specialized collectors
    who will continue to be the backbone of the "collecting world", it will
    go on forever at some level because of this, regardless of what happens
    in the "investing/speculating world".  If you're souring on collecting,
    trying focus down one 1 team or one player, etc.  It's remains alot
    of fun.
    
    I also haven't gone to many shows in several months, although a larger
    show can be prime hunting ground for specialized collectors.  I was
    on vacation this past week on the Eastern shore of Maryland and
    spent a few hours at the Seashore Spectacular 7 in Ocean City. Billed
    as 150 tables, there were maybe 100.  But still I found several
    dealers with high quality old football and picked up some nice old
    redskins.  The highlight was finding one lonely guy in a corner with
    most of his table being the highly "scarce" stadium club football
    series 3.  He was really depressed at how bad the 3 day show had been
    (this was the 3rd day), but I was over joyed to buy a redskins common
    player from series 3 for $1 from him.  Didn't make his day but I was
    pysched to fork over $1 and scratch off another possibly hard to find
    card off my skins want list, made my day (that and some great waves
    that afternoon).
    
    jeff
    
    
    
    collecting 

    
    There's an cover article in today's USA Today sports section about
    this very subject in conjunction with the National show in Chicago.

    
>    There's an cover article in today's USA Today sports section about
>    this very subject in conjunction with the National show in Chicago.
    
    Would you (or someone) provide a short summary of the article for those
    of us US-Today challenged?
    
    Thanks,
    Greg
     

    
    Well I can't transcribe it because it went to the recycle center at
    the dump yesterday.  Basically the article was saying that the age
    of speculation in sports cards is over, completely.  The flow of money
    from the early to mid-80s go-go days when "investments" in cards out 
    performed stocks & bonds is over, peaked, done it, fini.  But, there is 
    still alot `o-collecting fun to be had, one dealer is quoted as saying
    the collectors are now specializing in one team or in several players
    (sounds familiar).  The article had a few other silly quotes from
    know it all dealers, "people thought they could buy cards, stick them
    away, and pay for little Johnny's college education, it just ain't
    going to happen", duh.  The rest of the article was interspersed with
    tidbits about the national in Chicago this weekend, how it was still
    going to be excellent and exciting and boffo/neato.
    
    Wish I could've gone...
    
    jeff
    

    
    I'm still in it, but most of you know that I collect on SD Chargers and
    maybe that has kept me from being burnt out on collecting.  Maybe the
    answer is to limit your scope.  I dunno.
    
    Live from Charger Central.....Glenn
    

    
	DEALERS....That's my problem with collecting...
	****(with exception of Mr. Kelly, of course!!!!)
	
	"Hey mister...I have some cards for you to look at!"
	"Not now, see me in December!  Can't move hockey right now!"
	"Oh ok, hey, would you take $4.00 for that Ed Belfour?"
	"Nope..The price says $6.00, you pay $6.00!"
	"See Ya!"

	Granted you don't always see this...but as of late, I get furiated
	with these dealers who will pay 50% of low Beckett for cards during
	off season....and then turn around and ask Hi Beckett when you want
	to buy!!!  Cards are cards...whatever the season I say!

	I find that trading in the NOTES is the best way to go!  I hope
	you guys out there keep the hobby flying!  I'm fairly new at this
	and I thoroughly enjoy the collecting and trading...
	Looking forward to the 93/94 Hockey Season and the DUCKS!?!?!?!?!?
				
						* Chris *
    
    

I gave up on the completing every set of every sport of every 
manufacturer long ago.

The price gouging on new stuff was too much to take. I decided to 
concentrate on autographs and novelty stuff like manufacturer 
giveaways etc.

I like the autographs because they "show" well. Balls, cards, and 
pictures can be displayed and that appealled to me alot more than 
sticking completed sets in the closet to collect dust.

The food giveways etc appealled to me because, in general, there 
wasn't a zillion of each card out there and they were cheap.

Obviously, I'm not interested in making a killing.

I've also started trying to complete my Yaz card collection....

daryll

    I just started getting into card collecting this year, Basketball only. 
    It didn't take long to see how much one can spend in a hurry.  It's
    also very time consuming to complete the big sets, insert sets... so
    I'd like to start collecting cards on specific players, the Price
    brothers for starters.  Being new though I'm stumped on how to go about
    finding out all of the cards printed for specific players.  I
    subscribed to Becketts Basketball but haven't seen any specifics on
    collecting like this.  
    
    Any suggestions will be appreciated.
    
    Steve

    
    Well you can buy a Beckett that lists all players and their cards
    or I have a software package that will search a database of all
    basketball cards (and when a get version 3 it will do searches
    by team name).  Send me some mail with the names you want a list for,
    that ought to get you started.
    
    jeff
    

    
>    brothers for starters.  Being new though I'm stumped on how to go about
>    finding out all of the cards printed for specific players.  I
>    subscribed to Becketts Basketball but haven't seen any specifics on
>    collecting like this.  
    
    Sports Americana prints cards list by player ... most card stores have
    the baseball version ... I don't know how easy it will be to find a
    basketball version.  Maybe a store that has the baseball version will
    order you a basketball version.
                                                               
    Greg
    

    Two stores in the Fitchburg / Leominster area recently folded including
    one that had been around for about 10 years.  Another shop moved from a
    normal store location into a corner of a flea market.
    
    A dealer from one of the local  stores  told  me he sold boxes of Topps
    Finest for 225$ with a nifty  profit  around  185$. I thought 125$ at a
    show a couple of weeks ago was bad.
    
    John

    Anyone else notice that some of these super premium cards tend to stick
    together (especially Classic cards)  if  exposed  to  a little heat and
    humidity. Someone gave me some cards they had left in their car all day
    and when I got them home to look at them,  they were stuck pretty good.
    I had to tap them on the table to separate them.  The old regular cards
    never seemed to do this.
    
    John

    John and I talked about just last week.  I've definitely noticed
    the Stadium Club, Ultra brands sticking.  In fact, I had a box of
    Ultra in my closet (fairly normal tempertures) and they still stuck
    together, though not as much if left in the car or attic.
    
    Great, I just moved all my stuff to the attic...  Oh boy...
    
    Dan

    
    
    	Dan,
    
    		don't you know that the attic is one of the "worst" places
    	to keep trading cards ?.  That's because there is too much variation
	in temperature and humidity.  Of course, if that's the only place
    	you have for storing cards, then you have no choice.
    
    		I noticed the same "stickiness" on many of the new non-sport
	thin cards lately.  Must be the kind of ink they're using these days.
    
			Juan

    
    	I notice it on this years UD Baseball. I started a set and put it
    in my closet, when I took it out to add some cards they were stuck
    in clumps of a hundred or more and were very hard to get apart
    without damaging them.
    
    
    							Joe

    I have a set of 91 Classic Basketball that I hadn't looked at in a
    while. It came in a prepackaged box. I opened it up the other day and
    saw exactly the same thing -- clumps of cards were sticking together,
    it was a mess. I was able to get all of the cards apart, I don't think
    I damaged any of the cards, but I may have. 
    
    I think the only way to really keep these kinds of cards for longterm
    is to put each card in a sleeve, or a sheet -- not fun.
    
    I agree, I wish the cards would go back to NON UV coated. 
    
    -dennis