Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    G'Day,
    
    	The idea of having sex during the ovulation is obviously the way to
    go but having sex at other times of the month wont hurt either :-).
    
    	One thing you should watch out for though is too much sex ie. every
    day, more than once every day etc.  The reason for this is that the
    sperm needs time to mature and if you're getting rid of it as fast as
    you are making it then it may not be good enough to cause pregnancy.  I
    read somewhere that 48 hours is enough time so go for every second or
    third day and you should be right.
    
    	You say that your wife may not be interested in this much sex.  The
    idea here is to vary it as much as possible.  Doing the same thing day
    in day out gets boring, even something as good as sex!  Be creative and
    above all have a good time.
    
    	Good luck.  We hope to see an announcement of a future Nelson real
    soon!
    
    David.
    

    The following is contributed anonymously by a Mennotes reader:
    
    - M (Mennotes co-moderator)

                  -------------------------------------

If you're worried about what's "normal" (meaning average?), then you have to
hit the reference books.  If you or your wife just don't feel like making love
that often, I don't see how other people's stats will put you in the mood.  But
I can't resist a title like that!

When I'm in a stable relationship, we usually have sex 5 or 6 times a week
(extras on weekend mornings and/or afternoons).  During the last six months of
my last relationship, we were both suffering from depression, and the frequency
dropped to twice a week or so - we considered that a problem.

Background factors:  I don't have kids.  The age-range I'm looking back on (the
age-range in which I've had "living together" relationships) is 18 to 30.

By the way, given the nature of your question, I don't see why gender or sexual
preference should matter.

    
    Having sex with your wife when she can not conceive will obviously
    not result in getting her pregnant.  What I believe will occur from
    an increase in your sex life is that both of you will relax.
    
    You will not be having sex just to create a child. Think of the
    pressures you are putting on yourselves.  "If we don't do it today
    we might not get pregnant and then she/he is going to be disappointed"
    
    I have several friends who tried for years to get pregnant and
    couldn't. Then when they decided that maybe it wasn't going to happen
    and stopped worrying about it, it happenned.  You often hear of
    couples who adopt because the wife can't become pregnant and then
    shortly thereafter she does.
    
    So relax and enjoy it. Sex is great anytime and if your wife becomes
    pregnant even better.
    
    To agree with a previous noter.... how often is really personal.
    There are times my wife and I will make love every day and others
    where we might go a week without. It depends on a lot of things
    but we find primarily it depends on how stressed we are. 
    
    Good luck
    
    

    If I am not mistaken, every other day is optimum for achieving
    pregnancy.  Varying times in the day is also helpful, as ovulation can
    occur anytime in the day and some women are only fertile for a period
    of a few hours.  I'm sure there are other theories on this.  Relax,
    have fun and it will happen when you least expect it.
    
    
    Mike

 Try wearing boxer shorts if you don't already. Your sperm count may be low.
This can be caused by wearing briefs since they keep your gonads closer to your 
body  and therefore warmer. (Heat kills sperm).

 To answer your question, not often enough. :-) :-) Actually 3 times a week
is not unusual; the frequency has definitely dropped off from the beginning of 
the relationship when it was closer to three times a day. But I'm not a young
man anymore. ;-)

 The Doctah

You may get some more advice in the MRDATA::PARENTING conference, or even
better, from your doctor.  I will say from having gone this route before
that you can quickly tire of "scheduled sex", and I feel there is some
justification to the view that you get better success when you feel relaxed.

When trying to think about "what's average", keep in mind a scene from
the movie "Annie Hall".  The screen is split, and on one side, Woody Allen is
being asked how frequently he has sex with "Annie".  His response: "Almost
never, twice a week".  On the other side, is Diane Keaton's "Annie" responding
to the same question with "Continuously, twice a week".  (I may not be
quoting this exactly, but you get the idea.)  And also realize that "trying"
to have a baby is something both of you have to want to do, because it can
quickly become less than pleasurable.

In my situation, after nine months of "trying", my son was conceived while
my wife and I were on vacation and relaxed.  Maybe there's something to that
after all....

					Steve

This is being entered for a MENNOTES noter who wishes to remain 
anonymous.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Hoyt, I'm not married and the last thing my friend and I want right
    now is a pregnancy.  And with regard to frequency of lovemaking,
    I don't think *I'd* use the strategy to tell my partner what other
    people report; it would feel to me like I was pressuring her.  But
    whatever you feel is right for your relationship, I'm not saying
    you're wrong, you know your situation and your wife better than
    I do!  OK, so as for the information you sought...
    
    We have arrived at a fairly comfortable point in our relationship
    where either of us might be the initiator on any given evening or 
    morning (um, yes; I find we make love just as often after the alarm
    wakes us in the morning as we do during the preceeding evening.)
    Some weeks, that might be as infrequently as twice; some weeks, as 
    often as seven or eight times...(not often is a week *that*  
    active, though ;-).
    
    This is partly affected by the fact that we don't live together,
    but do stay together three or four nights each week.  And when,
    as often happens, one of us is too tired, the initiator gives up
    and settles for snuggling *very* *easily*.  This is important, for
    us, over the long run; neither of us responds well to pressure to
    have sex.  Its far more of a 'little seduction', each time.

    Hope you and your wife enjoy getting pregnant!

  Something you might consider also is taking Vicon-C, a vitamin which
  will help increase your sperm count.

  After I had my vasectomy reversal, my sperm count was low (13-15 mill.).  
  At the recommendation of the Dr. who performed the operation, I started 
  taking it.  We tried (before I took it) for about a 6-8 mos.  Nothing.
  After taking it for a couple of months my sperm count increased upto
  20-22 mill. (Avg. I heard is approx 23-25 mill.)  Needless to say
  we had a baby girl.

  BTW, you can get Vicon-C over the counter.  I didn't even finish the 
  bottle.  After my wife became pregnant I gave the rest to another friend 
  of mine who also had the reversal and 4 months later, his wife became 
  pregnant!

  The boxer shorts will also help in reducing the heat which kills the
  sperm as mentioned earlier.  

    That Annie Hall scene haunts me. I've brought it up previously in this
    conference, in fact. What I've heard so far (more responses are
    encouraged!) is that three times per week is not extraordinary, maybe
    even kind of reasonable. I don't think I really intend to quote this
    conference to my wife, it's more a matter of my getting more
    comfortable with the "imposition." I think I'm also going to use it as
    an occasion to introduce more variety: positions, mechanisms, unguents
    (what a word!), etc. But that's another topic.
    
    I wear boxer shorts, avoid tub baths, etc. I had my sperm count checked
    about a year ago, and it was pretty hilarious: this fiftyish Harvardy
    urologist comes whipping around the corner of the waiting room "Come
    look, look!" all excited like a child. I didn't know what I was
    SUPPOSED to be seeing, but apparently it was very good. The official
    count was 160 million per 2.5 cc's; I don't know how that compares to
    the previously cited numbers. My wife is also undergoing a fertility
    work-up, with no negative findings so far.
    
    I'm not relating to relaxing. *I* feel relaxed. Maybe my wife feels
    pressure, but she wouldn't mention it. I try not to wax anxious when
    she mentions once a month that she's not pregnant again.
    
    Thanks for the replies and good wishes - Hoyt

    Hoyt....sounds like mums a bit up tight......
    
    My dad told me that he and my mom tried to have a baby for eight
    years and were never successful. "Once", he said "We did it just
    for the fun if it."  Result:::::::: ME!!!! Then my brother and sister
    were easy....8^)
    
    Sounds like your trying too hard. Just have intercourse when you
    feel like it, never mind the cycles and fertile periods and all
    that crap. Take a few months off from the timetables and just play
    with each other. make a pact not to mention babies or pregnancies
    or anything else..........reacquaint yourselves with each other
    and enjoy each other. Maybe having NO pressure at all will result
    in something. Give nature a chance and keep the labratory outa the
    bedroom..
    
    Ken

.11>    Sounds like your trying too hard. Just have intercourse when you
.11>    feel like it, never mind the cycles and fertile periods and all
.11>    that crap.

    I'm certainly not a physician skilled in the intricacies of getting
    pregnant, but, can relate to the above statement.  When I was first
    married we wanted to do do everything "right" ... nothing worked.  The
    doctor finally told us what Ken (roughly) said above...too many times
    "anxiety" can change the body chemistry and the result is just the
    opposite of what you intended.

    We basically said "to hell with it all" and did what we wanted, when we
    wanted to do it...bingo...two months later she was pregnant.

    When we decided to have a second one, we did the same thing...just
    decided that it was time for the second...stopped the birth
    control...bingo...two months later here comes #2.

    As to "what's normal" with respect to frequency...ask my
    ex-wife...she'll tell you in a flash that "normal" depended upon what
    DEC was doing at the time...if my work schedule was heavy, "normal" was
    about once a week...when things slacked off "normal" was about once a
    day.

    Take it easy...relax...

    Jerry

    You should rent the movie "She's having a baby"- it deals with a
    couple that decides they want to have a child, but then have trouble
    conceiving.  It's a comedy/drama type thing, but it may make you
    two more relaxed.
    
        
    kkay

    
    At least once per decade..

    I was once having lunch with a group of friends, most of whom are
    considerably younger than I am.  
    One of the young males was boasting (you know how that goes!) about
    "doing it" several times during the course of a day.
    
    My reply was "if it takes you more than once, you ain't doing it
    right".
    
    All kidding aside, when my ex wife and I lost our first baby to a
    miscarriage, she decided she wanted to get pregnant asap.  She wore me
    out for several weeks, and I was fortunate that she got pregnant quite
    easily!  I agree with many previous noters who observe that relaxing
    and taking it easy may well be "fruitful".
    
    relax and multiply!
    
    tony

    
    Hi.  I'm female but I have some suggestions for you.  First of all, in
    answer to your question, my husband and I have sex usually twice every
    other day, maybe every three days, sometimes every day.  Personally,
    once a week is not near enough.  (but we're only married 4 months,
    lived together for 1 1/2 years before that.)  You could explain to your
    wife that you eat three times per day and sex if more fun than eating! 
    (just kidding)
    
    Now, I agree with the previous noters.  If your wife is not confortable
    then I doubt things are going to work.  Whenever I'm tense, my husband
    gives great backrubs.  Get out the skin lotion and just loosen all of
    her muscles, arms, legs, feet, everything BUT that.  Then maybe hug and
    kiss her alot and then leave her alone, to go to sleep.  Maybe another
    night tease her, do everything BUT and let her go to sleep, (if she
    can).  The idea is that everytime you go near her, shouldn't be for
    clinical reasons.  Maybe sex has been hurting her or she's so
    dissappointed that she doesn't like sex anymore.  Also, try every
    bizarre position you can think of.  Heck, it's more fun and clinically,
    maybe her eggs hide out somewhere and it takes a different angle to get
    to them.  (probably not true, but a good excuse for creativity
    none-the-less.)  Also, this is a bit personal, but if your wife never
    climaxes then it's probably not that much fun for her.  Maybe have a
    night just for her.  Go for a record!  Buy her an outfit.  Sneak in her
    drawers, get her size and go to Victoria's Secret.  (Classy lingerie.)
    Above all, she'll enjoy sex and have it more frequently if she feels
    loved and pretty and sexy.  Good luck!
    Oh, I almost forgot.  Flirt with her when there's no chance to have
    sex.  Like at dinner in a restaurant.  Tell her she looks so great
    you'd just love to dive under the table with her!
    
    (I hope I haven't been to graphic.  I just wanted to help.)
    
    Rachael
    

    !!!
    
    - M

    
    Re: .16 (Rachael)
    
    Nice note, and as Mike Z. mentions, everyone is welcome here.
    I think you made a lot of good points. I hope you'll note more.
    
    Re: basenote: 
    
    We vary quite a lot. But then, having been married 14 years I guess
    it's to be expected. And raising two young boys under 3 also
    affects how often as we're often quite tired when we finally have a
    spare moment. For us, the important thing is that there's a lot
    of passion when we do, it's never mechanical. I do remember though,
    when we too were trying to concieve that the idea of scheduled
    sex put a bit of a damper on it all. I guess nothing is as enjoyable
    as it should be when you're suppose to do it. And we finally had
    success after Lynn was prescribed a fertility pill.
    
    							Hank
                                                                   

    .16> Sneak in her drawers
    
    Only if she can also sneak in his knickers!
    
    Leslie

    What happened to Suzanne's note 487.21 and other notes in this string?
    
    DougO

    The were, as many expected, deleted by Steve.
    
    I will be the first to admit, I think we (the participants of those
    notes, might have gone a tad too far with the personal digs. 
    Obviously, so did Steve.
    
    Al

    Al is correct.  The deleted notes contained no "discussion", but
    were instead an exchange of personal attacks.  The authors received
    an explanation along with the returned notes, as usual.
    
    In general, I prefer that these kinds of questions be directed to the
    moderators by mail, rather than sidetracking a current topic.
    
    				Steve

    Thanks for the replies. They've encouraged me to take an unprecedented
    level of initiative, and it's been well received! Regardless of the
    implications for baby-making, this is good.
    
    Maybe fertility pills are next on our list. My wife had twins once
    already. I could handle triplets, I think (?!).
    
    - Hoyt