Conference quark::mennotes-v1

Hi Jim,

	Good question, which of course means,
        I don't know the answer.
        The first thing that came into my mind was the 
	following passage from the book "The Prophet" by 
        Kahil Gibran.
	
	I don't know if you know it .
	This passage describes how the prophet, having spent 
	12 years in exile in a city, sees the ship approaching that
	will take hime back to his homeland. 
	He recounts that although it is a joy to leave his exile
	he does it with sadness.
    	.....
	
	"But as he decended the hill, a sadness came upon
	him, and he thought in his heart;

	How shall I go in peace and without sorrow ?
	Nay, not without a wound in the spirit shall I leave
	this city.

	Long were the days of pain I have spent within
	its walls, and long were the nights of aloneness;
	and who can depart from his pain and aloneness 
	without regret ?

	To many fragments of the spirit have I scattered
	in these streets, and too many are the children of 
	my longing that walk naked among these hills, and 
	I cannot withdraw from them without a burden 
	and an ache.

	It is not a garment I cast off this day, but a skin
	that I tear with my own hands.

	Nor is it a thought I leave behind me, but a heart 
	made sweet with hunger and with thirst."
	.......

	I'm not sure it is relevant Jim 
	but it holds a few insights as to why people
	find it so difficult to tear themselves away
	from situations that even they themselves know
	is not ultimately in the best interests of their 
	personal growth.

sl�n,
Danny Ryan
    

    For some, the devil they know is easier to live with than the
    the one they don't.  It seems to me that a fear of the unknown
    is one of the most common to humankind.
    
    Steve

    re: .1  thanks, I think it applies - nice piece.
    
    re: .2  fear does strange things to us all, thanks.
    
    jim
    

    RE: 0
    
    Scenario #1:  He is right.  He probably would lose his kids and may end
    up with far less than he has now!  Why doesn't he try marital
    counseling??
    
    Scenario #2:  The law does not always protect a woman from a violent 
    spouse.  She may be protecting her children from an abusive man.  She
    most likely has a valid point!
    
    Scenario #3:  She may be fine.  Maybe she doesn't want a relationship.
    Why do people have to have relationshiips, anyway?
    
    Scenario #4:  Again, why don't they try marital counseling?
    
    I would say that until you have lived in a certain situation, you can't
    understand thruough personal experience.  These situations have been
    happening over time.  They aren't easy to get out of.  Sure, you may
    think this way now, and I would wager to bet that any number of these
    people would not advise others to take the same route, but once you're 
    in, it is very difficult to get out!  Like another noter said, they are
    living with familiarity.  Their self esteems may be bruised, also. 
    They may believe that they cannot do better than the life that they are
    leading.
            

>    I would say that until you have lived in a certain situation, you can't
>    understand thruough personal experience.  

I agree with this.  However, I think it's important not to overlook 
empathy as a means of "walking in someone else's shoes."  To 
empathize, I believe that a person has to _really_ listen to someone, 
spend significant amount of time with that person, and to open up to 
that personally emotionally.

I can't understand what it is like to be a woman.  However, I think 
that, after spending lots of time with women, really listening to them 
and opening up to them emotionally, I have a great empathy for what it 
is like to be a (white) woman in this country during this time.

As for bad relationships, the secret for me has been to look at the 
"good intentions" behind my own compulsive self-destructive behavior.  
Sometimes it is hard to see, but self-destructive behavior is often a 
misguided attempt to satisfy a real need.  If a person can identify 
the actual need, then the person can redirect the efforts to meet the 
need in healthy as opposed to a self-destructive way that never really 
meets the need anyway (if the self-destructive behavior truly met the 
need, then the peson would not have to repeat the behavior again and 
again and again in desperate compulsion).

Sound simple?  The theory is.  Try putting it into practice.  I offer 
my shoulder to cry on for anyone trying to beat compulsive, 
self-destructive behavior.  It is looooong term work (for most).


							--Ger

    My answer to most of scenerios...because the main theme is financial
    arrangements, fear of unknown, etc, but the main ingredient missing in
    all is...LOVE.  If a person is in love with the partner...is hard to be
    violent, or mean.  There are many couples who get into "relationships"
    for monetary reasons, plain physical attraction (that fades away after
    a certain time...)and things like that.  There is no strong base to
    support future problems/pressures that a family normally goes thrugh...
    so it breaks.  Believe me, it is very hard, if not impossible, to be
    mean to the person you love...  I am sure that the persons in those 
    scenarios started with fond feelings for each other...what made them
    become hostile? could it be selfishness?  thinking "I WANT" instead of
    "YOU" want?  If we chose more of the later we could have less
    problems... (this is my humble, personal opinion, I stick to it)