Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    
    In essence, I'd say that it's their problem, not yours.
    
    Not having been in this situation for some 12 years, I can only
    recall my own 'rules for dating' dimly, but one strong one was that
    the woman *wanted* to date me. If she didn't, I saw no reason to
    persue the matter ad nauseam.
    
    However, my continuing experience of human relationships may be
    able to contribute smething here...
    
    There is sensitivity in a relationship, which I agree with. There
    is a great deal to be said for being aware of your partners needs
    but at the same time this should be reciprocated. Your partner(s)
    should be told what they are doing to you, it may well be that they
    don't know.
    
    If, after all this, they continue to act as before, then I would
    suggest you find someone more attuned to the satisfaction of mutual
    needs, which is where the stability of my marriage is based.
    
    Best of luck
    
    Andy

    
                          
    I wouldn't like receiving gifts after just a couple dates.  It would
    make me uncomfortable, even flowers.  When the relationship was getting 
    more involved then would be the time (not at the beginning).
                  
    

    
    There's a book out called "Smart Women, Foolish Choices".  Big best-
    seller.  I don't know anything about it.
    
    SHL
    

    There are many women that would love to receive flowers on the first
    or second date.  I think its a very romantic gesture.  I don't think
    it's right to judge women in general by your experience with two
    women.  I personally avoid men that think women are jerks.  Why
    fight a losing battle?  There are plenty of single people out there.
    I KNOW it takes time to find someone compatible, but its worth the
    wait.  You say they are generalizing that all men are jerks, but
    now you are generalizing that (all) women think men are jerks. 
    I think you simply must be patient.  I firmly believe that there
    are many kind, thoughtful (single) women, and there are many kind,
    thoughtful (single) men.  Sometimes its not easy to find them.
    Be patient.

    i think u shud by them the taj mahal and stand back and watch

There's an interesting phase that we all go thru right after being
dumped or doing the dumping.  It doesn't matter who the previous 
person was because sensitivities just run too high and we are prone
to irrational feelings, being overly cautious or not cautious enough,
being cynical or doubtful, or even doing things we wouldn't normally
do.... like hurting people who are trying to be nice to us.

This is called "the brain damage" phase.

It's a result of tooting your emotions full-steam and running into
a brick wall.  These women must have drained themselves dry emotionally
and are now taking it out on you.

Jerks don't last forever and neither do memories of jerks.

Accept that these 2 are still "brain-bruised" and back off nicely
with a "Gee, why don't I give you a call in a little while..." and
maybe pick up the phone in a month and find out how life goes?
They may be more receptive to your kindnesses.

In the meantime, YOU will not become cynical or hurt by what they're doing,
and you can approach them with the same interest.

Or, in the meantime, can explore the possibilities of a relationship with
someone who is emotionally healthy right now.

I guess my advice is that you can do nothing about it, and those 2 are not
in any shape to benefit from your loving expressions, and rather than
you TOO becoming a member of the brain damaged club, is best to seek
new avenues.

Everyone is brain damaged at some point, but most of us heal.  My husband
and I connected up just after a very painful rebound for me, and he
gave me my distance and acknowledged my brain-bruises, and 3 years later,
we're very happily married.

Take care -- 

Bugsy

    
    
    	RE:.7
    
    	I resemble that remark! |^)
    
    	Todd

If jerks last forever for you, you're not handling your life very
well.  I apologize if I wasn't clear, but there are as many jerks
in your love life as you're willing to tolerate.

Granted, there's always another jerk right around the corner, but
hopefully, at some point, we all learn their mating calls and
their markings, and we learn to avoid them.

Bugsy

            I ran across this today, it seems appropiate for the subject.
    
            According to an old Sufi tale, Nasruddin and his friends were
         sitting in a cafe, drinking tea, and talking about love and
         life. 
           "How come you never got married, Nasruddin?"
           "We'll," said Nasruddin, "to tell the truth I spent my youth
         looking for the perfect woman.  In Cairo, I met a beautiful
         and intelligent woman, with eyes like dark olives, but she
         was unkind.  Then in Baghdad, I met a woman who was a
         wonderful and generous soul, but we had no interests in
         common. One woman after another would seem just right, but
         something would always seem to be missing.  Then one day I
         met her.  She was beautiful, intelligent, generous and kind.
         We had everything in common.  In fact, she was perfect." 
           "Well", said Nasruddin's friend, "what happened?  Why didn't
         you marry her?" 
            Nasruddin sipped his tea and reflected.  "Well", he replied,
         "it's a sad thing.  Seems she was looking for the perfect
         man." 

         Bummer city!
    
           Mikie?

    
    	RE: .12
    
    	That was good!
    
    
    	C.

    	RE: .12
    
    	That wasn't Nasruden! that was ME!!!!!!

	-rfl

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    Back to the original note, about dating women (or men?) with
    emotional scars from previous relationships...
    
    It sounds like an uphill battle, doesn't it?  But might it not
    be worth all the hassle?  I would tend think so.  Your mission,
    should you choose to accept it, is to help her to relearn (or
    learn?) that not all men are jerks.  You will need a lot of
    patience, and you should resign yourself to the fact that you
    will almost certainly end up "just friends" (although perhaps
    very close ones). 
    
    Gosh, just like a knight in shining armor, eh?  
    
    Examine your own needs.  Do you need primarily support and
    security?  If so, try to find "healthier" women.  If you can
    usually stand on your own two feet, and desire primarily
    companionship, then go for it -- the potential reward is a
    very strong friend for life.
    
    What do you think?  Can we stir up some controversy?
    
    John
             

    MIKEY,IF YOU ARE STILL HAVING PROBLEMS WITH GIRLS LIKE YOU MENTIONED
    THEN I WOULD TELL YOU THAT THEY ARE JUST SLEAZES.
    AG

	 RE: .17

	 Pardon me??????  What did I just read?

	 hummm.....

	 k

	 RE: .17

	Might be a good idea to take some of that language off-line.
	That stuff can make people feel de-valued.  

	Just a suggestion....


							--Ger

    re .17  Does some one volunteer to teach this individual some noting
    etiquette? I think that warrents a set/hidden by the moderators.
    
    Gail

    Well, this moderator is just as astonished by the opinion in .17
    as anyone here, but I don't see anything that legitimately calls
    for the note being hidden.  The note doesn't insult anyone
    identifiable, and doesn't use profanity.  The opinion expressed
    is, in my view, distasteful, but isn't a violation of the conference
    rules.
    
    If you think I'm missing something, please send me mail about it.
    
    				Steve

��    Perhaps part of the problem is that Angelina is a new noter
    and not aware of the conventions of noting. Most of us are
    so used to seeing all caps as shouting that people could
    have over reacted to her note because of the caps.
    
    Which (if I may speak as a moderator, tho of a different
    conference , for a min) is a very good reason to read the 
    1.* note in any conference before writing in it, and spend 
    a little time exploring aconference and reading in it.
    
    Bonnie

	 RE: -.1

	 All CAPS or not, the word sleaze is a very derogatory term
	 and people should think twice before using it....especially
	 when referring to a generic group of people.

	 k

    Can we get a definition of the term?  Perhaps an explanation of
    teh sentiment is in order.  People of all types do 'low down' things
    at times for reasons unkown.
    
    Bob

    
    First I'll apologize guys that I can't SET HOST to my node
    and being in training this week I got this TEST account, but
    IT's really me ... Christopher, honest
    
    RE: .25
    >> people of all types do 'low down' things at times
    
    I don't want to agree with this Bob, but when I sit back
    and then add all this ELECTRONIC crap (notes/mail) that
    is available to hide behind... well, I have to agree.
    
    How can you gauge someone from an unknown distance sitting
    at a VTxxx somewhere???  How can you really get an image of
    a person without a Kodak ?? I can't understand why it's so
    hard to say... I'm 5' 10" 170lbs Blonde Hair, Blue eyes
    I dress very well and its comfortable for ME.
    
    The electronic media (notes/mail) give an extension to me
    to say hello to others in the company and voice MY opinions.
    But I don't believe it's fair to misrepresent anything about
    me ... nor do I feel others have a right to do that.
    
    This life I feel is it, this is not a dress rehersal for the
    next time around. To me HONESTY is first and foremost the
    number 1 major ingredient required in meeting, coversation
    and dating. I go out of my way to say how I really feel,
    and to talk about my self ... is it too much to ask in return???
    
            Christopher
    

    "Blessed is he (she) who has no expectations, because he (she)
    shall not be disappointed."
    
    I'm not sure if this exactly relevant to this note, but it may help.
    A few years ago I was in a counseling group.  In the same group
    was a guy I'll call James.  James was early 40's, muscular, tall,
    handsome, slightly graying at the temples, reasonably rich, athletic,
    and a reasonably sensitive guy, with a magentic attraction for women.
    I walked in there the first night, met this guy, and said to myself,
    "If *this* guy is having trouble with relationships, there is no
    hope for me."
    Well, as time went on and James talked about this great woman he'd
    met but it didn't work out, and that great woman he'd met but it
    didn't work out, and so on, and so on, and so on..., it became
    pretty obvious to everyone (except James) that he was meeting some
    great women with whom he could have had some dynamite relationships
    if he'd just let go and enjoyed them for what they had to offer.
    HOWEVER, none of them quite fit the "ideal" images in his head,
    so he was perpetually doomed to disappointment.  
    
    So...I think if you can enter a relationship with no preconceived
    ideas of what it "should" be or where it "ought" to go, and just
    let it happen, it may happen.  You can't make anybody like you.
    If it's destined to work, it will happen dispite your best efforts.
    If it's not destined to happen, it won't happen dispite your best
    efforts...if you're lucky.