Conference quark::mennotes-v1

�    In this usage, a "macho" man would drive a 4X4 truck, never play "tag"
�    football, probably hunt and fish, and do everything with the most
�    expensive gadgetry available.
    
    	Oh shit.. I'm macho and I didn't even know it!!
    
    								mike

I believe that "macho" comes from the word "machismo" and means an 
exaggerated sense of masculinity.  Macho, in turn, now is an adjective
that means a guy characterized by machismo or machismo itself....
It's Spanish, I think....

To me, macho means bravado.... and it's all very boring!!!!  But then
again, I find the female equivalent of it -- clinging vines -- to
be equally boring!!!

I guess I like moderations of both....

Bugsy

    Real men don't know what macho means!
    
    /tb/
    

    	There's 3 steps to being macho.
    
    	You gotta be able to:

            	1> Kick butt
    		2> get laid
    		3> and get drunk.

    	In any order!  Of course alot of times when you're having a bad day
	or something you can always just get drunk and brag about the other 2.

    	Jake

    I thought there was a definate order:
    
    1.  Get drunk.
    2.  Try to get laid.  ELSE
    3.  Get drunker and kick butt.

    
    	Or maybe:
    
    	1. Get your butt kicked trying
    	2. to get laid, Then
    	3. get drunk!
    
    	Todd

    
    re: .4
    
    Real men don't puke when they drink!!!
    
    Mike

    
    A real "MACHO" man 
    
    A 90 mile an hour hairdo!
    Shirt open to the navel ( No belly button lint)
    At least 3 gold chains around his neck.
    Never misses a mirror, or store window.
    
    And for some damn reason can pick up women anywhere??
    
    
    
    

    I don't know whether some of  these definitions are serious.  Maybe
    we could reframe the question to be "How can you tell if someone
    is NOT macho.  The easy answer is to offer the neo-sensitive male
    stereotype, which (it appears) is a polar opposite.  However, the
    tough answers involve the difference in a macho man and an ordinary
    guy.   (Hmm - I wonder if you have to be macho just to try to answer
    a tough question)

    Gee! No lint? At all? 
    
    Just goes to show I'm not macho. Thankfully.

    
    I always thought that MACHO men were very insecure, so they would
    go out of their way to prove their manhood by getting laid and 
    getting drunk excessively.

     re .13:
     
     > ...by getting laid and getting drunk excessively.
     
     I'm a little confused by the syntax; I'd appreciate it if you could
     help me out.
     
     Does 'excessively' refer to both 'getting drunk' and 'getting laid'?
     That is, does a macho man get drunk a lot and get laid a lot? (Tricky,
     since the forces of the one tend to limit the potential of the other,
     the old T-D-T-F syndrome.) 
     
     Or does 'excessively' only refer to the insobriety part?
     
     And how much is 'excessive'?  How often would a man have to get
     shiffazed/bedridden to be considered macho? 
     
     Thanks for your assistance in helping me understand,
     
     --Mr Topaz

       The real Amerikkan Macho male
    
    2 active brain cells, one controls his agression, the other his
    genitals.
    
    Wears ill fitting levis, baseball cap with favorite beer brand logo.
    flannel shirt unbuttoned to the waist displaying beer belly, tattoos
    on arms.
    
    Drives muscle car or pickup, with look og real wood gun rack in
    window.
    
    Is always right, will kill anyone who disagrees.
    
    Women are like furniture to him, thinks he's a real stud even though
    he's impotent or prematurely ejaculates.
    
    Hangs around rest areas beating up queers, when nobody's looking
    goes home with them, wants to be treated rough.
    
    All in all the all American sicko! needs help, but thinks all those
    other weirdos and pinkos are to blame.
    
    Wife agrees with everything he says, has secret plot to leave him.
    Slaps around his 5 year old son for crying.
    
    Brags a lot.
    
    
    Mmmmfffftttt! I'm getting ill!
    

    re:0

    macho: according to Daniel Webster::: My picture is there !
        

    Macho is a Spanish word (I think it's the adjectival form of
    
    the noun 'machismo'). It refers to a concept which has no
    
    exact equivalent in English. It approximates to 'deliberate
    
    masculinity' or sexual chauvinism. It is best illustrated :
    
    A macho man always makes love in a male-dominant position.
    
    A macho man wears the pants in his house. He believes in
    
    the 'barefoot and pregnant' school of relationships. He
    
    swaggers, is possesive, and jealous. By current standards
    
    he is considered sexually chauvinistic. Culture excuses
    
    much, I suppose. 

    Is there a female analogue for the "macho man"?  What sort
    of female is attracted to machismo? Is machismo really gender
    specific?  Consider the following extraction/modication from -.1
    
    
>A macho PERSON always makes love in a dominant position.
>A macho PERSON wears the pants in THE house. He/SHE
>swaggers, is possesive, and jealous. By current standards
>he/SHE is considered sexually chauvinistic. 
    
    If you knew a female that fit this description, and you wouldn't
    label her as macho, what label would you use?
    

    re:.20 Macho comes from Machismo which is spanish for masculinity
    so the female would be whatever the Spanish word for Feminintiy
    is. :*) Liesl

    Please note the :-) misspelt in the previous reply.
    
    "Machismo" does not mean "masculinity" in Spanish, so the Spanish
    word for "femininity" (not a valid one to translate, actually) 
    wouldn't do much good.  Machismo is a concept of its own, relating
    to male bravado, self-identity and sense of superiority.
    
    "Masculine" and "feminine" are, in their most literal sense, not
    particularly sex-related.  I don't know of a female equivalent
    of Machismo, since women in the Spanish-American culture (mainly
    Mexican, to my knowledge) had a rather passive and less visible
    role.  "Equality" is not a familiar concept in that context.

    re: .22 Sorry I misquoted my own dictionary. It lists the word
    machismo this way:
    
    Machismo noun [spanish] masculinity 
    
    This is from Webster's new school and Office Dictionary. I guess
    you're right about the concept of a strong overbearing woman not
    fitting the spannish/mexican culture very well. Not too likely they'd
    have a word for it. 
    
    I'll bet most men just say bitch. This also assumes you mean the
    woman would have the same lack of sensitivity as the macho man.
    
    Is there really a right way to spell :-) ? Liesl

    ACtually "bitch" has other connotations than the female version
    of macho.
    
    Persobally I'd probably substitute the word "stupid".

    I meant substituting the word "stupid" for "macho", period.

>    I meant substituting the word "stupid" for "macho", period.

     Ironically this is how _Collins_Spanish_Dictionary_ defines macho 
     in its familiar sense. 

     The following is a summarized list of the above definition:

     (a) (Bio) male
     (b) (fig) masculine,strong,tough
     (c) (Mech) male
     (d) (fam) stupid
     (e) (Col) big,huge,splendid,terrific (fam.)

     My personal experience is that South Americans (Latinos) use the word 
     more frequently than European Spanish (Penisulares).

     John

    RE: 21.20
    
    I believe the word is Viraginity (not virginity) which is masculine
    traits in a woman.
    
    What macho men want are odelisks who exude muliebrity; not viragos
    (which is what 21.21 and .22 are projecting onto women).

    Macho is an expression of animus, perhaps?
    

    
     Just for fun, list the characteristics of a "REAL" MAN.....
    
    -Wears L.L. Bean clothing.
    
    -Most of the time, wears jeans, flannel shirt and work boots.
    
    -Sleeps in underwear.....nothing else (winter or summer).
    
    -Likes the outdoors (working or play).
    
    -Doesn't mind cold (winter weather) or hot waether.
    
    -Only drives an American made car or truck (truck preferably).
    
    -If he has a bike, it's a Harley...nothing else.
    
    -Always has a pocket knife on him (good quality one from L.L. Bean).
    
    -Only alcoholic beverage he drinks is Bud...nothing else.
    
    -Likes camping (really roughing it, no tent trailers or motor homes for
     this guy) in summer and winter. 
    
    -Main diet is meat and potatos (roast beef, steak, ribs) for dinner
     and has large breakfests consisting of eggs, bacon and pan-brown
     potatos.
    
    -Takes a leak anywhere he has/wants to (indoors or out).
    
    -And above all...... does NOT eat KIECHE (sp)!!!!!!!
    
    
    
    
    P.S. this reply is mainly just for fun. If any women out there want to
        characterize a "REAL" woman, feel free.
    
    
    Mike.
                                                             

    
    re: .31
    
    P.S. And has an I.Q. of 65 or lower!
    --John

>    -And above all...... does NOT eat KIECHE (sp)!!!!!!!
    
...and above all.....does NOT know how to spell quiche!!!  

Ooops!  I guess I just disqualified myself.

( Huge ;-) )
						--Ger

    
    and certainly couldn't speak it.... 

    Gee, by that definition I qualify as a macho man!
    
    --bonnie

    A macho man is one who doesn't have to ask what a macho man is.
    
    - ���

    
    by flicking through this topic, I'm wondering why there is still
    no serious defination of "macho men".
    First of all from what I read so far, to be "macho" is something
    negative. WHY ?? Don't you ever think about that "macho" (whatever
    the right defination might be) is something in a man's mind and
    his attitude and has nothing to do with driving american cars
    or having an EQ of 65-  ??
    
    M1ke
    

    Uh, d'you mean *I*Q?

    
    sorry, of course I Q
    
    due to the fact that I'm dealing with part numbers all day long
    (EQ - ...) 
    too bad !
    
    M1ke                

Macho (to me):

	Impenetrable.  Strong.  Never showing fear.  Never showing 
	pain.  Never needing help.  Psysically big and burly.
	Rough.  Never needing rest.  Never showing tenderness or
	weakness.


American Heritage Dictionary

Machisimo: An exaggerated sense of masculinity.

Masculine:  1)  Of or pertaining to the male sex.

	    2)  Characteristic or suitable to a man (a masculine voice)

	    3)  [Gender in grammar]

[real specific, aren't they?]


If "macho" is an "exaggeration," then, by definition, it isn't honest. 
It isn't genuine.  It is a prentense, an act. 

I don't see anything positive in "macho" as a lifestyle.  "Macho" as a 
temporary act could be okay in some circumstances, but not as a way 
for me to carry myself most of the time.



							--Gerry

    Re: -1
    
    By your definition, Macho just seems to be a facade.  I saw nothing in
    it that has to deal with the human side of life.  
    
    It seems to me that if you're really macho, you emcompass all of the 
    things that have been said in this note, and also be able to express
    yourself.
    
    I guess that means that the only ones who are macho, don't realize they
    are.  They're just themselves.
    
    Comments?
    
    <>Ken
    

    
    Macho isn't politically correct, either...

    
    re .42> same thing again, just talking about facades.
    
    like I said, by reading all the replies to this topic I'm not sure
    if this is a serious one or not.
    Nearly everybody is dealing with stereotypes ("this is how a macho
    man looks like") Forget it - men can be "macho" as hell and just
    "normal" to everybody else. Men running around with 3-12 golden
    chains around their neck CAN be macho, most times they are just
    kids. The word "macho" has a negative touch due to all these
    stereotypes, but it's not a question of how would someone like to
    be, it's a question of how he is and how he is standing to himself.
    And I can't see anything negative in that.
    To bring even more fire in this "discussion" :
    Some replies mentioned exaggarated masculnity - who decides what
    is exaggarated and what is maybe degenarated on the other side ?
    
    mike
    
    
    
    
    

    Macho to me can be a couple of things.
    
    There is the Macho slur. The reference usually refers to a mental
    attitude toward a man's surroundings that implies domination.
    Domination of people and of things. Control.
    
    There is the Macho physical description. A very physical man, muscular
    and usually oriented towards the outdoors. Capable of weathering hard
    conditions but not necessarily looking for them. Capable of taking
    informed risks to achieve a goal.
    
    What can be confusing is that sometimes these two descriptions are
    combined in a single man. The result is that the macho slur may be
    applied to someone who has the macho physique but not the mindset.
    
    It's another case where a quick, easy one word put down has been
    allowed to trivialize a class of males without their consent. Instead
    of rejoicing in diversity there is an attempt to make men conform to
    mundaneness.

    Macho: Single faceted caricature of the archetypical male
    sub-personality.  (see also redneck)
    

    The question is, what is a macho man anyway???
    
    He's a professional wrestler.
    
    

The only thing that I advocate is that you don't redefine a word 
because you don't like it.  "Macho" or "machissimo" seems very clear 
to me.  Whether it is "good" or "bad" or inbetween is really up to 
ones own personal value system.  Personally, I think that macho is 
bad, unhealthy, and self-destructive; but I know plenty of people who 
rank macho as being unconditionally good.  It depends.

It also depends on what culture you are talking about.  Macho does not 
come from a US culture.  It comes from South American cultures (to be
exact, is it Mexican?), which is very different from our own.  In its
original culture, I think that it was a positive term, because of the
value system of that culture.  "What it is to be a _real_ man" varies 
from country to country, from culture to culture.


							--Gerry

    Italian - specifically Sicily, not Mexico.

    According to my dictionary, "Machismo" is a Spanish word, not Italian.
    
    					andrew

    
    Again the definition of
    
    MACHO (MAH choh)
    = An aggressively masculine man; =HE-MAN
    = aggressive malenss= machismo
    
                                                      Willis