| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 570.1 | JUST THE OPPOSITE | VAXINE::LEFEVRE | | Tue Aug 23 1988 18:27 | 8 |
| I HAVE TRIED IN THE PAST TO BE TOO NICE BUT IT NEVER SEEMS TO WORK
OUT. I USUALLY END UP BEING A *BITCH*. WELL YOU AREN'T THE ONLY
ONE WHO IS TOO NICE. I ONCE DATED A GUY THAT WAS TOO NICE TO ME.
I JUST COULDN'T TAKE HIS NICENESS ANYMORE.IT SEEMED FAKE OR UNNATURAL.
I WONDER IF WE REACT TO GUYS BEING TOO NICE THE SAME WAY THEY REACT
TO US BEING TOO NICE.
-LAUIRE "JUST A CO-OP"
|
| 570.2 | It's nice to be nice. | CSC32::DELKER | | Tue Aug 23 1988 18:36 | 2 |
| I don't think you're being too nice; I think you're finding
the wrong men.
|
| 570.3 | And Abby says... | QUARK::LIONEL | In Search of the Lost Code | Tue Aug 23 1988 21:50 | 26 |
| I'm surprised you omitted Abby's response. I agree with it, and
here it is:
Dear Me No. 2: My Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary
defines "bitch" as a "malicious, spiteful, domineering
woman." If there are any educational programs for "bitchery,"
I've never heard of them, and if there were, I would not
recommend them.
People who use and abuse others and have no desire to attain
maturity are both unattractive and miserable. The same goes
for phonies who nag and try to gain sympathy through tears
and feminine ploys.
The old saw, "Nice guys finish last," is not true - and the
same can be said of nice girls.
There are times I have felt as you have - where I was nice, honest,
giving and caring in a relationship only to be "stabbed in the back".
But I realized that by giving in to that emotion I would be the
ultimate loser. Instead I kept my head held up high, and went on
with my life. It's happened more than once. But I refuse to give
up - or give in. You should do the same.
Steve
|
| 570.4 | Try Asking for Love Back | SENIOR::MARTEL | | Tue Aug 23 1988 22:15 | 35 |
| I am not sure if it is any comfort to know that you are not alone.
I have the same problem when I find someone that I care for. It
seems that their needs are more important (to me) than my own.
I seldom ask for anything, always willing to give love and more
love. I always thought this was one of my greatest assets, but
realize today that I am only depriving myself.
I had someone point out to me that I don't look to meet my needs,
I only work at my SO's needs. And it was made clear to me that
I had to take care of #1 - and #1 is ME! I never considered myself
as #1. I never stopped and asked for what I needed. And when the
relationships end, and I can't understand because I gave everything,
I feel cheated. Like I was too nice.
But what actually went wrong was the fact that I never met any of
my needs. I never identified to my SO that I *wanted* *needed*
love too.
I read a book just a while back. It helped me understand my role
in relationships a little bit better, but I am not sure if I liked
what I found out. Needless, it did identify this type of behavior.
If you would like a professional opinion, the book is called:
Women Who Love Too Much.
.2 touched upon a topic in the book - picking the wrong guys. You
may be surprised to hear some of the data that is discussed. I
was amazed how much sense it made.
As far as learning how to be a bitch, hang it up. It obviously
is not in your character. And it would be too much work for you
to carry out. Just be you, and remember that when you have needs
in a relationship, let your partner know! You DESERVE to receive
love also!
|
| 570.5 | you can be too nice | HACKIN::MACKIN | formerly Jim Mackin, VAX PROLOG | Tue Aug 23 1988 22:41 | 26 |
| I have been working on a reply to this for the past fifteen minutes,
and deleting each version of it -- and .4 got their response in
first. I think that s/he summed it up perfectly.
Really nice people are so rare; those who care a lot and have so
much to give don't seem to exist much anymore. Maybe because they
feel the same way you do. Trying to learn to not care, love, feel
etc. would be a horrible loss, to you and to everyone else. Finding
someone who appreciates it *and* can reciprocate is tough, but when
it happens -- wow!
I do think that you can be too nice, though. I've seen instances
where only one person in a relationship really worked at keeping
it going: paying much more than her/his own way, rearranging their
schedule only to have the other person cancel out at the last minute
(or worse, just not show up). One of them gave out all of the love,
the other just hung on for the ride since it was convenient. And
as long as it was kept convenient, there was absolutely no reason
for them to change.
It's a very difficult situation, because the person who is
considered to be incredibly giving also tends to be insecure (this
is a gross generalization, I know). So, even when things aren't
going so well you think, "Well, maybe its me" or "I'm just not trying
hard enough, that's all." If that's the case, then .4 hit the nail
on the head again -- think about yourself as well as the other person.
|
| 570.6 | what is too nice? | YODA::BARANSKI | Searching the Clouds for Rainbows | Wed Aug 24 1988 03:51 | 18 |
| I don't think the problem is being too nice.
I think that as long as you:
1: Be as nice to yourself as you are to anyone else. You deserve it just
as much as anyone else, and being nice to yourself evables you to continue
being nice to other people.
2: Don't take any sh!t from anyone else. Contrary to somewhat popular belief,
letting someone walk all over you doesn't do you, or them any good; it
is not part of 'being nice' to people. If anything, being nice to people
who walk all over you requires you telling them point blank where you
stand, where they stans with you, and what you will put up with, and what
you will not put up with clearly.
... you will not have to worry about being 'too nice'.
Jim.
|
| 570.7 | PRIORITIES | UBOHUB::DAVIES_A | REBEL YELL | Wed Aug 24 1988 06:06 | 39 |
|
RE: .6 Right!
And to define a little further how to be nice to yourself (maybe
you haven't had much practice at this recently.......):-
1) You are the most important person in your life. This is *not*
selfish - you have to be as happy/fulfilled/joyouse about
yourself as possible to be any real use to anyone else.
2) You are the only person whose happiness you are wholly responsible
for. And investing in yourself is the only investment that you
can be 100% *sure* will never be wasted.
3) So look to yourself. What do you enjoy doing? What would you
like to learn, visit, improve, campaign for, exercise?
4) Get into those activities. And if another person comes on the
scene, keep *on* with those activities. This will inevitably
cause the occasional clash ("I want you to cook dinner for us
tonight" "Sorry, but I go to aerobics on Wednesdays"). This is
good and healthy.
The practical upshot of this plan is:
If you get involved with someone you also have a life of your own.
You will know what you want for yourself, and you won't have "space"
to become a full-time doormat. This is better for you and the other
person.
Also, if the relationship doesn't work out then you have a life
of your own to carry you through it. I get the feeling that all
that "niceness" you've been giving out must be a full-time job
- so if you have other things in your life at least it'll become
a part-time job! Which may not "scare off" the other person so much....
This sounds a bit "gung-ho" - there are many things I don't know
about you that influence the way you behave. So these are just some
thoughts - hope you work it out.
A
|
| 570.8 | Love hurts sometimes, but not all the time | RAVEN1::TYLER | Try to earn what Lovers own | Wed Aug 24 1988 07:55 | 19 |
| I've just read the base note and all the repies. I'm new to this
conf. but here's my .02 cents worth.
I basicaly agree with the past notes. I think you need to sit down
with yourself and decide what you want most. If its Love or money
or fame then work to get where you want. Love can be the hardest
to get, I feel, because when you deal on a personal level with someone
it takes time to understand them. And the same is true from thier
standpoint.
I've been in the same boat as you. Giving and giving, trying to
let the other person know that I was real in my feelings for her.
But I do not regret doing this. The relationship did not work out
and I was very hurt. But when the right person comes along, I will
give and give again BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I WANT IN MY LIFE. I may
get hurt again and again and thats tuff to take. But I'm happy with
me.
Ben
|
| 570.9 | Enough already! | ELESYS::JASNIEWSKI | Our common crisis | Wed Aug 24 1988 09:47 | 48 |
|
Hi,
I'd like to express some thoughts on this. The result of your
being what you say is "too nice" might not (literally) be for that
reason at all! I can think of two possibilities;
One, some people are simply more comfortable in a stressful
environment. Though this doesnt make sense at a first glance, it
can be understood by realizing that these people perhaps grew up
within one. They do not yet realize exactly what happened and seem
to be into a sort of never ending drama - always *something* that
seems to come along and upset stability, at any given time. So,
here you are being your nice self in the midst of someone who's
always in the habit of stirring up the mud. You cant understand
*why* there's always trouble when you try so hard to make things
nice! It simply turns out that "trouble" is just the most familiar
state of being for the other person. "Nice" doesnt cut it, doesnt
feel right; you've simply have a mis-match of psyche in this example
situation. I've been in a such a relationship.
The other has to do with the "people pleasing" syndrome and
watching out for #1 that was mentioned previously. When you give
up your own needs to please another, your self esteem becomes evident
to the person you're trying to please. Soon, the other person finds
that *They* can get away with just about anything they want, and
you'll still try to be pleasing! Well, it turns out that this other
person really doesnt want to "get away with just about anything",
in fact that aspect of themselves (again low self esteem and integrity)
really kinda bothers 'em. By being "nice", you're really enabling
them to stay the same! They dont need to have any integrity, cause
no matter what they do, you'll still be nice to them. The example
you set is not one of a high self esteem, which is what they actually
do need to see. As time goes on, it becomes clear that things just
cant work, and this person has a deep seething feeling whenever
you're "nice". That feeling actually comes from the painful awareness
of their own low regard for themselves. I've also been in a
relationship like this one.
Being infinitely "nice" can never compensate for a lack of self
esteem. People actually appreciate seeing and being around someone
who can show off behavior based on a high regard for themselves.
Snobbery is a "fake" high regard. Being totally compliant or always
compromising for the sake of another shows no regard for the self.
This inately bugs people, they dont want to see it, they've probably
seen enough.
Joe Jas
|
| 570.10 | It might be that... | 16BITS::AITEL | Every little breeze.... | Wed Aug 24 1988 11:15 | 13 |
| ...people need to be needed. I know that, for me, a relationship
where someone was constantly pleasing ME would make me feel guilty.
If they didn't provide openings for me to please THEM, I would not
feel needed. I would not have the opportunity to give to them,
as they give to me. I need that. I don't want to be the only one
doing the giving, but I do want to do my share. I want to be able
to have that good feeling that I get when I give someone something,
whether it's a physical thing (gift) or something like my time or
support. Maybe that's what's missing in your relationships - you
are not letting THEM give to YOU - or asking them to give to you.
???
--Louise
|
| 570.11 | | CIMNET::LUISI | | Wed Aug 24 1988 13:44 | 51 |
|
I think there are two sides to the "nice" coin. If you are that
outwardly nice person who "gives" all the time and behaves in the
way you and the other noters have commented on I think that is good
providing it is something you do naturally and enjoy and look for
as a quality in your close associations and [mates]. For you to
change your behavior [to the extreme] as you suggested would not
benefit you at all. You would probably hate yourself.
But the other side of this coin is the impact of your nice-ness
on yourself. Are you being this way in spite of yourself? Are
you capable of expressing your needs, wants, desires to your mate
in your own way [being nice] and having those needs met? Or do
you give in to other peoples needs first is spite of your own needs
which now may put you in conflict.
Do you do "FOR" others in order to be nice so they will love you,
or like you? Are you that way with friends? With Family? With
lovers? Do you do things for people so they will think you are
nice to them and resent what you are doing or did afterwards because
it wasn't right for you?
What happens if you are in a situation where there is family, and
friends, and a lover and the needs of all three are different?
Do you try and please them all separately or do you just get frazzled
trying to please everyone at the same time? Do you intentionally
avoid these potential conflicts by keeping friends, family, and
lover apart from each other?
If you do not feel these things are true for you than wonderfull.
If you can always be that nice person [and I don't know how you
can] This world is not without conflict and anger. And not compromise
your own needs but express then and fullfill them than great.
I bring this observation up to this conference because I was involved
once with a woman who behaved that way. She was "always" nice and
wonderfull to me and everyone else. But inside she was resentfull
of it all. I was having a ball with her [and not taking advantage
of her niceness] but truly enjoying this wonderfull person.
She ended the relationship in a very [un-nice] way. I guess she
just could'nt keep up the facade any longer and the pain of pleasing
was greater than the pain of letting go.
I know I will be more cautious about relationships in the future
if my SO is too nice all the time. I think it underlies other things
going on.
Bill
|
| 570.12 | | COMET::PAPA | | Wed Aug 24 1988 22:50 | 2 |
| JUST KEEP ON BEING NICE. THE RIGHT GUY WILL COME ALONG. DONT LET
YOURSEL BE STEPPED ALL OVER THOUGH.
|
| 570.13 | How to say goodbye | GYPSC::BINGER | ANSWERS!! No no I have the questions | Thu Aug 25 1988 08:37 | 38 |
| There are a number of ways of ending a relationship. Here are two extremes.
1. Sit down with partner tell them what they are doing wrong and why
the relationship must end. Risk with this discussion the possibility of
promises of change and an extension of the agony, till eventually you
have to take them to pieces and destroy them. After this make sure that
you never cross their gun sights/walk in front of their car... etc You
now have an enemy......
2. Sit down with partner take the blame all on yourself I am bad you
are good, in fact TOO good. They then walk away 2 feet above the
ground.
Now to translate.
If they believe then you were right in your prognosis. You were talking
but not communicating. This is in itself grounds to end.
If they do not believe you how are they going to come back and say "I
am going to be so bad/bitchy that you cant help loving me".... Try it
in front of the mirror sometime.
The second way you end up with a person with whom you can continue the
relationship on a less intense level.
On the other hand, What is being too good? This may be a good subject
where noters who are too good can give examples. As the next note
noters who are too bad/bitchy could give examples.
I would suggest that any person who is being told or had the feeling that
they were TOO GOOD for a PERSON THEY LOVED to very quickly get some lessons
in communication.
|
| 570.14 | | CGVAX2::MICHAELS | | Thu Aug 25 1988 17:40 | 44 |
| I think .4 is excellent
I think .9 is excellent, excellent
My mother is one who gives so much it hurts her in many ways.
Physically: She'll make promises to be three or four places at once
and stays 10 or 15 minutes at each. She feels she shouldn't say
no to a family function.
Emotionally: She'll agree with everyone to their face to avoid an
arguement or a simple discussion, and behind their backs she'll
have to devise a way to keep it from the other person forever. She
will never admit to them she may disagree because "It's not nice."
Mentally: Ma feels she has to psyche out everyone. Instead of asking
a direct question, she'll go all around the question in order to
trap the person being questioned. Most times, it's something the
person would answer openly, anyway, but the quest and power that
is gained by trapping someone makes Ma feel more successful.
Ma does NOT know how to accept a gift. If I buy her a blouse, she
buys me an outfit. If I place a bowl of fruit on her table, she
invites me dinner out. A nice man helped Ma once with a flat tire
when she was alone and received a dozen shirts (from Jordan Marsh,
yet!) in the mail.
I've tried discussing with her that she is a valued and valuable
person. I've asked her, "When will you let someone do for you?"
I tried explaining that she doesn't have to run to all the kids'
homes; they can come to her for a change.
In most cases, my mother is comfortable with her ways. Sometimes,
however, the strain is obvious. She's wonderful, intelligent,
observant, alert, keeps herself healthy and active, humorous, witty,
friendly, warm and genuinely loves to please. However, she does
not realize how much it would please us if she were able to accept
a small token of our appreciation. She does not understand that
we find it hurtful. We talk to Ma about it and what does she do?
OF COURSE -- She agrees!
Sorry to be so long-winded,
Susan
|
| 570.15 | From a Nice guy to a Nice Girl | MCIS2::AKINS | | Fri Aug 26 1988 01:38 | 22 |
| Hi,
I also have been told that I am "too nice". I have had some
pretty rough relationships because of this too. I talked with
a good friend of mine and she suggested that I be a little more
mean. I tried it because she hasn't steered me wrong yet. I was
wrong. I lost pride and I felt like dirt. I wasn't even that
"mean". I just wasn't myself and I didn't like not being myself.
I have to agree with several of the replies. The main person
that you have to be nice to is yourself. If you don't treat yourself
well how do you expect others to treat you well. You sound alot
like me. I used to put anyone I cared for on a pedistal and constantly
spoiled her. I would sacrifice anything for her. I then bought
a book titled "Love & Addiction". This book seemed to describe
me exactly. It explains what an addiction is, and how a personal
relationship can become addictive. Basically, an addiction is anything
that becomes more important to someone then the person is to
his/herself. (The book goes into more detail)
Bill An_Ex_Too_Nice_Guy_Who_is_Still_Too_Nice_but_Happy_Also
|
| 570.16 | Moved by moderator | VAXRT::CANNOY | Convictions cause convicts. | Fri Aug 26 1988 10:16 | 14 |
| <<< QUARK::DISK$QUARK2:[NOTES$LIBRARY]HUMAN_RELATIONS.NOTE;1 >>>
-< What's all this fuss about 'sax and violins'? >-
================================================================================
Note 571.0 Can you really be toooo nice No replies
GYPSC::BINGER "ANSWERS!! No no I have the questions" 6 lines 26-AUG-1988 05:17
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If there is such a thing as being too *nice*, especially to a partner. I
would be very interested to have examples.
I mean soooo nice that you damaged the relationship.
Stephen
|
| 570.17 | Perceptions of niceness | SKYLRK::OLSON | green chile crusader! | Fri Aug 26 1988 20:24 | 44 |
| re .16- Stephen, I've faced this accusation before. In my case,
I eventually realized that by being too compassionate, too responsible,
too self-sufficient, my partner was made to feel that she was
contributing nothing to me, that I didn't really need her. My actions
were *closing her out* without me being aware of it. We were much
younger and under heavy stress (both doing heavy technical college
courseloads, never enough time for each other, raging hormones,
the whole stick) and we lost communications as well.
But in a lot of ways, when we started having our problems, they
got worse because we both soldiered on independently, being 'mature'
(as we misunderstood it to mean 'strong') instead of allowing our
vulnerabilities to show. I did this at great emotional cost, because
my family had never taught me how to share those kinds of burdens
and thereby become closer. So I ended up making her resent me because
I didn't need her to comfort me. She wanted me to NEED her. That
wasn't really an unreasonable thing to ask of me.
This is similar to the question at hand, in that someone who is
always 'nice' may be that way because they don't know how to fight,
in fact, will always try to avoid conflict. Fighting is healthy.
It tells you you're dealing with another real human being who has
a separate, independent viewpoint. When I am in a relationship
and I want to deal with a conflict of some sort, and the other person
is too damn nice to even admit the conflict exists, I start to think
that the niceness is just a pose, hiding from the real world where
real people are allowed to disagree with each other.
What causes these 'too nice' or 'too strong' behaviour patterns?
Conditioning/socialization/the-way-we're-raised...the underlying
problem is an unreasonable expectation that one 'should be' a certain
way...nice. or strong. And real emotions and needs get subordinated
for years to moulding this personna that performs nicely. When
the personna must perform in an unbecoming role (like, one needs
to accept confort, or one needs to have an honest fight) the facade
shows the cracks. Is there a real person underneath, and can we
persuade 'em to throw the facade away, since its gotten in the way
of relating???
If not, the relationship may terminate because "you're too nice".
Hm, what an introductory note to H-R! Hi folks- just call me
DougO
|
| 570.18 | Yes | CAIRN::HARRIS | | Fri Aug 26 1988 21:01 | 22 |
| The answer to the question posed is: yes, it is possible to be too nice. It has
to do with the recipient's sense of self worth.
If the recipient feels worthy of the niceness, all is fine. However, if the
recipient feels unworthy, then the niceness runs counter to his/her self image
and will be rejected, even suspected. This can usually be tolerated to a
limited degree by a most people. However, in a relationship, these long term
mismatches between received affection/consideration and self image can be very
hurtful. Ultimately, if one feels unworthy of the affection, or simply unable
to return it in the kind or quantity that one receives, it starts to become a
burden. And what a burden! Heavier and heavier, day by day, month by month,
year by year. And previous replies have pointed out the futility of telling
someone that they shouldn't be so nice.
If the person being "nice" realizes the effect that this burden has, he/she
would realize that lots of overt "niceness" actually has the effect of being
a form of showmanship, or even one-upsmanship. It is a mild form of aggression.
To form a lasting relationship, it seems to me, requires that both parties
carefully work to tailor their behavior to their partner's sense of worth. I
realize that this is harder, but it seems to me an absolute requirement.
-Kevin
|
| 570.19 | | 15048::FOLEY | Rebel without a Clue | Sun Aug 28 1988 10:35 | 12 |
|
I'm "too nice" also.. I tried the "being a shit" routine but
I hate myself when I do that.. So now, it's just a waiting game
for the right person who appreciates a "nice guy" to come along..
I'm semi-patient.... Although, will she be "too nice" for me??
:-)
Although, the next woman who say to me "Oh Michael, you're
Sooooooo nice!!" is gonna get thrown up on.. {semi-serious}
mike
|
| 570.20 | why are you so nice? | NOETIC::KOLBE | The dilettante debutante | Sun Aug 28 1988 18:03 | 10 |
|
There is another side of the "too nice" issue and that's what do
you expect in return for your niceness. The best example I can come
up with is the mother that sacrifices all for her kids but expects
that to tie them to her no matter how old they are.
This happens in love relationships also. I give up everything for you
and I expect the same in return. This isn't being nice, it's being
manipulative. Are you trying to control someone by being nice? Or
are you really doing it because you want to? liesl
|
| 570.22 | | 15047::FOLEY | Rebel without a Clue | Mon Aug 29 1988 09:46 | 11 |
| RE: .20
Not at all.. All I "expect" in return is for someone to care
about me, respect me, and not take advantage of my "niceness".. I don't
think that is asking too much...
RE: .21
hehehehehehe
mike
|
| 570.23 | | ACTVAX::SCHWINDT | KDF;LAKSDJ | Mon Aug 29 1988 10:56 | 6 |
|
But Mike..... You ARE sssssoooooo NICE!!!!
Katie and Sandy
|
| 570.24 | | QUARK::LIONEL | In Search of the Lost Code | Mon Aug 29 1988 12:15 | 6 |
| I haven't actually had a lover tell me that I was "too nice", but I
HAVE been told "you deserve someone better than me," which probably
amounts to the same thing. However, given the way she ended the
relationship, I would agree....
Steve
|
| 570.25 | Is there a happy medium? | NCVAX1::FOULKROD | | Tue Aug 30 1988 13:50 | 15 |
| So.....what do you do if it is part of your personality to be REALLY
nice? I feel good about myself, am confident of my "worth" and
all that physci stuff, but I enjoy giving...because I feel I have
alot to offer someone and enjoy offering. Although, she did go further
than I might, I have learned later into the relationship to pull
back if I'm not getting what I need in return (which is usually
what happens). People think that because you are really nice and
giving, you don't want anything in return - EVER - WRONG! Stupid
me, I mistakenly thought those around you (who I thought cared)
would be able to tell when it was your turn to be given something,
but they stop "looking" for a chance to give back it seems.
So my dilemia is - how do you be a "nice" person, and let people
know you need too?
|
| 570.26 | | COGMK::CHELSEA | Mostly harmless. | Tue Aug 30 1988 16:34 | 8 |
| Re: .25
>-< Is there a happy medium? >-
I figure two nice people ought to be a terrific match. (Though
the selfish among us would rather the niceness get spread around.
But hey, if we want niceness, we'll just have to produce some
ourselves. It's probably good for us.)
|
| 570.27 | Better to give..... | MCIS2::AKINS | The Truth never changes only the knowledge of it does | Tue Aug 30 1988 20:26 | 5 |
| I'm not looking for anything in return for my niceness. I get all
I want from just the fact of knowing that I AM being what I want
to be....NICE.
Bill
|
| 570.29 | nasty is not the opposite of nice | GYPSC::BINGER | ANSWERS!! No no I have the questions | Tue Sep 06 1988 04:40 | 15 |
| re .27
You surely mean 'easier to give' and the converse more 'difficult
receive'. As soon as you give and then deny the other person the
oportunity of reciprocating the label 'too nice' becomes appropriate.
You then get all the pleasure and they end up feeling indebted. The
expression 'A person can take only so much' applies to niceness as
well.
Reconsidering my earlier reply I would say that the label 'too nice'
applies to a person who refuses the other the oportunity of being
nice as well. The label 'too good' is another label. This should
not be confused with nasty people. They are not the opposite of
nice people.
Stephen
|
| 570.30 | From Nasty to Nice.... | SUPER::REGNELL | Smile!--Payback is a MOTHER! | Tue Sep 06 1988 17:33 | 72 |
|
Hullo....
I feel a bit strange, writing this, but I have so
enjoyed this topic that I wanted to contribute....
I am a *first class bitch*. No problem, acid tongue,
flames from eyes, amoral...the whole nine yards....
But....[you knew there was a but...didn't you?] I
am married to for 17 years now a truly NICE man.
And I have experienced all those insecurities about
how to deal with *niceness* that you folks have been
talking about....my two cents worth:
This *nice* person I married, has learned not to
silently judge me for not being *nice*....I have
learned not to try to *educate* him to the *real*
world....
This person *has* learned to *demand* things from
me when appropriate....endlessly turning the other
cheek can be dull and breeds insecurity on *my*
part...no don't ask for a logical explanation of
that...there is none...I only know that when he refused
to demand respect and equality....I felt insecure
and punished him for it.
*I* have learned to curb my tongue and my style when
I might actually embarrass him....I don't give up
my identity or suffer stress related headaches....I
just cool it occasionally so he can function. *I*
even am nice [sic] upon occasion...just for him.
*We* have learned to be separate in those things
that we can not endure together....it has allowed
us to remain a couple. I *can not* abide politics
or political semantics....so I stay away. He *can
not* abide argument for the sake of mental
stimulation...so he stays away. *I* do not demean
him for being soft and gentle....he does not regret
that I can not be soft and gentle. In many ways
we provide each other with the chance to vicariously
experience something we would secretly *love* to
be....each other!
But, it is a constant working thing our relationship.
Everyday, we work at it...for 17 years. It is better
today and will be better tomorrow...but it is never
easy. It is work....and even he in his *niceness*
admits it is a lot of just plain work. He is my
best friend....and I love him...but he *is* nice
and my that grates sometimes when I see someone walk
all over him....and I amd *not* nice and that grates
sometimes when he sees the sparks start to erupt.
But the biggest thing we both have
learned? I *NEVER* save him...what an insult! If
he *must* be crucified then let him at least do it
with dignity. AND, he *NEVER* interferes in my
territory...what a transgression. If I must make
a flaming A***** of myself than at least let me do
it in style.
A long way to say a simple thing....I apologise....but
I guess the point is....Bitches and Bastards really
do appreciate you wonderful people....and we very
often fall in love with you just because you are
wonderful.......we just sometimes
do not know how to touch you without hurting....or
being expected to change....but we do love you.
Melinda.
|
| 570.31 | .29 I agree,but... | MCIS2::AKINS | The truth never changes.....Einstein | Tue Sep 06 1988 21:32 | 13 |
| re .29
>>>You surely mean 'easier to give' and the converse more 'difficult
>>>receive'. As soon as you give and then deny the other person
>>>the oportunity of recipricating the lable 'too nice' becomes
>>>appropriate.
I agree, but I never said that I didn't accept another person
being nice. I love it. I would be a hypocrite if I wouldn't let
someone be nice to me if they wanted to.
Bill
|
| 570.32 | | 15047::FOLEY | Rebel without a Clue | Wed Sep 07 1988 07:08 | 7 |
|
RE: .30
Thanks for the entry.. It helps explain a few things..
mike
|
| 570.33 | | CASEE::SCHLEICH | | Wed Sep 07 1988 07:12 | 9 |
| re .30
I don't understand how you can know you're a nasty woman, and be
again a nasty woman ?
What are you calling Nasty ? You don't smile everytime, that's it
? I need explanations...
Arnaud.
|
| 570.34 | I *always* smile..... | SUPER::REGNELL | Smile!--Payback is a MOTHER! | Thu Sep 08 1988 18:11 | 75 |
|
RE: 32 ... You're welcome. But this is only my viewpoint
remember.
RE: 33 ... Wow....I have had a devil of a time trying
to come up with a witty and succinct answer to how
and why I know I am *nasty*. Actually *bitch* is
a better and more descriptive term....
I have two very long text files that I decided against
sending....this is hard to get down in type and not
sound like Lucrecia Borgia! {Then again, maybe the
truth hurts more than I care to admit....ahhhh well.}
How about this?
Ruthless Honesty.
I think that defines it. *IF* I am right, and I
*know* I am right, I will take whatever action necessary
to achieve desired results. I have very little
compunction and precious little compassion for people
over the age of 20. I may *feel* bad about them or
what they do....but I will *not* alter my actions
to accomodate their inadequacies. And before someone
asks the question that begs for....no, I have never
asked for compassion or compunction either. I take
total and entire responsibility for *my* actions
whatever they are; I expect others to do the same.
And before someone tries to have me justify that
view of the universe...I am not asking for acceptance.
I am trying to answer an honestly asked question
with honesty. There are times when it would be warm
and cuddly to be less *me* than I am....but infinetly
less challanging and probably dull from my perspective.
I am the person everyone throws at the crisis situation
to pull everybody's chestnuts out of the fire. I
kick a** and I make waves and I create havoc....and
we get the job done...well. And then I move on to
the next crisis.
In a time and a place where many people strive for
mutual love and understanding and we bend over backwards
to make sure everyone in the known universe has equal
rights and feels loved....I sort of don't fit. My
decisions are based on simple facts...if you do *what
you say you will do* or you admit right up front that
you thought you could but you messed up and now you
can't...you are first rate. I will protect you, hire
you, help you, do it for you. Because you were honest.
If you don't, and even worse, don't have the guts to
say that you can't but try to hide it or excuse it by blaming
others...you don't rate at all. Period. I will run
rough shod over you and you will never know what
hit you. I am *very* efficient.
I guess that is why I say I am *nasty*. It is the
ability to be ruthless that I harbour....there are
precious few wonderful and bizarr people who can
adjust to someone like me...and love me. I am lucky
to have so many in my life. I *know* that I am difficult
to like....its sort of like hugging a cactus...you
have to develop a taste....but I am not selling myself
short here! For those who can stand the heat...the
marshmallows are great! What you get for loving the
whirlwind is a trip to the stars!
Enough!
Is that the answer you looked for?
Melinda
|
| 570.35 | I guess even a bitch isn't all bad... | CSC32::DELKER | | Thu Sep 08 1988 19:21 | 20 |
| Re. .30 & .34
Melinda,
Your replies are some of the most interesting responses I've seen
in notes, indicating unusual objectivity and insight into onesself.
I'm sure it's a valuable piece of social education, but not sure
yet how to fit it into my own experiences of interpersonal
relationships. Thank you for sharing that with us. It's wonderful
how you and your husband have worked out your relationship.
I respect your openness, frankness, and articulative ability. I
also don't think that some of the qualities you described in .34
are necessarily "bad", or maybe I have more leanings toward
bitchiness than I thought ;-).
I'll bet you do command respect.
Paula
|
| 570.36 | Yikes!!! | MCIS2::AKINS | The truth never changes.....Einstein | Thu Sep 08 1988 20:10 | 15 |
| RE .34:
I respect your honesty but how honest are you when it comes to starting
a relationship. It is great that you are so confident of yourself
to know what you want, and have the ability to get it. I was just
wondering if that included pretending to be very sweet and "nice"
just to get someone that you wanted. It seems to me that if you
were honest enough to state what you did in .34, you would be honest
enough not to play games with someone who wants to believe in the
way you present yourself. I guess what I'm trying to say is, Are
you sure that the person you want, knows what type of person you
say you are in .34? Or Do you care?
Bill
|
| 570.37 | Sorry, this got a bit long... | SUPER::REGNELL | Smile!--Payback is a MOTHER! | Fri Sep 09 1988 10:51 | 112 |
|
RE: .35 ... Thank you, Paula! The ability of the
people in this notes file to be objective about views
that do not mesh exactly with their own is probably
why I had the courage to reply in the first place.
RE: .36 ... Bill, I don't think I *know* how to play
games....I have been told [and see no reason to
disbelieve the information] that people can spot
who and what I am from about 200 yards....plenty
of room for those uninterested to detour! %^> [Ahem,
I can't leave this without an added comment....I
*do* play games ...don't we all... but I try my very
hardest to make sure they are played between consenting
adults who already know the rules before the game
starts....see?]
But to be more serious and less glib....[another
one of my bitchy habits....I tend to insert pithy
comments of suspect import into glib parenthetical
statements....like this one....] I have two things
to say in answer to your interesting question. [And
thoughtful one also...]
First:
Once upon a time....when I was very much younger
and whole lot less wise...and considering how lacking
in wisdom I still am, my state of mental competence
at that point in my life was somewhere at -2 on a
scale of 1 to 10.....[sigh]. Anyway, once upon a
time....I broke a man's heart. I really wanted and
loved him....and I pretended to be Polyanna. And
it fell horrendously into jagged pieces from which
we could not even build a raggedy andy picture of
friendship.
I do not think [from a hindsight viewpoint anyway...]
that the problem was that he couldn't love who I
really was....I think the problem was that I had
deceived him into loving someone I *wasn't* and so
he could never *trust* me again. Not only was the
demise sad, it was ugly and messy and hurtful. I
will never knowingly be a party to such pain again.
Second:
When someone like me embarks on a friendship or a
relationship...it is not part-time or part-way thing.
My friends are able to call on me for anything anytime
anywhere...period. That is my committment to people
who have the audacity to love me. It can be rocky
and rabble rousing....and there are times when I
spend hours having my friends alternately scream
at me and hug me when they are trying to save me
from myself....but it is never deceptive and it is
never dull. I guess that is why I have a few *wonderful*
friends and many acquaintances. The admission price
is too high.....? [Well, My Daddy always said you
get what you pay for....;^>]
I don't know how to say that any more politely. I
am *not* elitist....my *friends* are a weird bunch
of assorted people with only *one* thing in common:
They do *not* fear or lie to me...and they *do* love
me...so I love them. We regularly exchange comment
and opinion on the inadequacy or stupidity of each
other's behavior....and we are always there to provide
shoulder, kleenex, wanted [and unwanted] advice and
good old silent grief with each other.
=========
It is impossible for me not to hurt people sometimes.
I [oh dear, this is difficult to explain...bear with
me?] try not to, but if I *pretend* to believe what
I don't or be what I am not to accomodate someone's
sensibilities....then I *will* hurt those people
anyway when the charade falls apart.
So, I err on the side of honesty and I do
see people cringe occasionally when an univited
proposition ellicits a very bald *no, thank you*
on my part? Or my bald assessment of the state of
affairs of a project goes down like sand in clams!
But, no, I do not think I ever gull anyone into
passivity and then dump a ton of bricks on their
head....I think that without exception, people know
me for what I am....I hope.
For the rest of it...I am flashy and bold and I run
with people who are the same....the timid seldom
get close enough to get burned anyway. [You, know
that sounded terribly obnoxious didn't it? It wasn't
meant that way....what I mean is that my usual behaviour
sort of annonces who I am and how I operate....if
someone refuses to read the road signs I can not
afford to accept all the blame.] If you *saw* me,
you would know in the first 5 seconds that I play
only hard ball....and then you could make your choice.
I *never* pursue where not invited....
I think people are wonderful...I love them. I think
people who truly care are even mpre wonderful....I
just admit to myself that I will never *be* one of
them. That can be sad.....but they will never *be*
like me either....and I guess that could be seen
as sad also....maybe we just need to appreciate each
others' strangeness from afar....and marvel that
coming at problems from disparate stances we come
to similar solutions?
Melinda
|
| 570.38 | Bravo!!!!! | BSS::VANFLEET | 6 Impossible Things Before Breakfast | Fri Sep 09 1988 11:32 | 7 |
| Melinda,
You sound like the kind of person who truly lives in
integrity with herself. I applaud you!!******
Nanci
|
| 570.39 | I am *so* much better at anger! | SUPER::REGNELL | Smile!--Payback is a MOTHER! | Fri Sep 09 1988 16:45 | 10 |
|
I am desperately seeking a witty way of saying thank
you without blushing unexpectedly.....but I am at
a loss for words....[unusual in itself...]
So, Thank you. The *appearance* is probably somewhat
more palatable than the actuality, but I am touched
by such support. And admittedly surprised....
Melinda
|
| 570.40 | this is an observation, not a demeaning insult | SALEM::SAWYER | Alien. On MY planet we reason! | Fri Sep 09 1988 17:11 | 30 |
|
it's a strange planet....
1. some of the people who claim to either be nice or have had
others say this to them have been the exact opposite to me....
as i was to them....
2. i find it humorous that a person who comes in here and claims
to be a "bitch" recieves so much positive support from these
very same people!
all i do is post an opinion and many people rush to be the first
to tell me what a jerk i am!
by the way, melinda, i am not chastising you or suggesting that
anyone else chastise you....if you're happy, i'm happy.
i've been nice
i've been too nice
i've been irritable and i've been not nice at all...
i try to be nice as often as i can and i try even harder to
not be mean....
guess it all depends on the phases of the moon
and male pms
everyone have a nice weekend!
rik
|
| 570.42 | | COGMK::CHELSEA | Mostly harmless. | Fri Sep 09 1988 19:56 | 7 |
| Re: .41
>and her notes were long and contributed nothing of substance to
>the topic
Nothing to the topic as defined in the basenote's title, but certainly
something to the file in general.
|
| 570.43 | What did the Marquis say .... | GYPSC::BINGER | ANSWERS!! No no I have the questions | Tue Sep 13 1988 07:40 | 23 |
| Re .30 and following. Before we go too far on the too nasty cult answer the
following question.
What did the Sadist say.... When the machochist asked to be hit.
NO NO NO
Melinda,
I dont think that you are being mean to the people who love you. You are
being **VERY** nice.
Stephen
|
| 570.44 | Living in integrity. | BSS::VANFLEET | 6 Impossible Things Before Breakfast | Tue Sep 13 1988 13:32 | 9 |
| I agree. My feeling is that Melinda is a strong person
who is assertive about her needs, wants, and feelings.
This really doesn't have any bearing on how *nice* she
is or isn't. She seems to have a very definite sense of
her personal ethics and values and lives by these standards.
This is what I think is remarkable. I know very few people
who actually _live_ by their own standards.
Nanci
|
| 570.45 | | HANDY::MALLETT | Foole | Wed Sep 14 1988 15:28 | 58 |
| re: .40
Hmm, interesting observation, rik, and, in essence, I have the
same view. It seems to me that one reason people (like me)
might readily accept Melinda's alleged "nastiness" is that she
starts by stating that she is "flawed" or that she might be
so deemed by folks with another point of view (like her husband's).
In so doing, she has acknowledged others rights to their points
of view, saying essentially that the world looks as it does to
her and that she, by god, will operate per those views. But
in the same breath, she acknowledges that it's only right for
her, not necessarily for anyone else, that there may not always
be rational explanations (in her mind) for some behaviors, and,
most importantly, that she's learned to allow other's their views
because they are equally valid for them. In her writing, I'd be
hard pressed to find a place where Melinda declares that she is
"right" (flat out, no qualifiers); such declarations strike many
people as implying that other views are "wrong". So strong is her
validation of others' views being "right" for them, I can easily
imagine her for cussing me out for doubting that my own view of
the world is "wrong" for me. From where I sit, the world can use
lot's more of this "nastiness".
And it seems to me that there's a tone of humor to her writings,
humor directed primarily at herself. Paradoxically, I'm more
apt to listen closely to someone who opens with a line like "I'm
just a rotten ol' curmudgeon who doesn't know which way is up,
but it seems to me that. . ." than I am to the person who simply
says, "Here is the way the world is. . ."
The first person has started out by humbling him/herself in public,
a behavior which many feel is a mark of grace. It may, in fact,
be the case that the second person is equally (or even *more*)
humble. The difference is that the first person acknowledges
his/her human frailties. Without other data, we could equally
conclude that the second person is "preaching 'truth' from the
ivory tower". In the words of the clich�, it's not what is said
but *how* it is said that can make all the world of difference.
BTW, it also seems to me rik, that you've been flamed at a lot
less of late and I suspect that has eveything to do with *how*
you write things today (vs. say, a year ago). I think that
you are phrasing things today in terms that appear a lot less
judgemental or absolute. Then too, you've occasionally portrayed
yourself in a manner that's a bit more self-effacing than in the
past and that allows others to know that they're not being "talked
down" to. Again, *what* you have to say hasn't changed, but *how*
you say it has, and it looks to me as if people are more willing
to listen to you today without cranking up the flame thrower.
Then again, it just may be that there are lots of people
like Melinda (and me) for whom "nasty is nice", "rotten is
righteous", and "evil is ecstatic" (cackle, shriek)
Steve (geez, this has been so inspirational, I think I'll kick the
cat *twice* when I get home. . .)
|
| 570.46 | | CASEE::SCHLEICH | | Thu Sep 15 1988 22:21 | 7 |
| Re: .34;
Okay, it seems like I understand much things about "nasty people".
Thanks, nasty Melinda ;-)
Arnaud.
|
| 570.47 | More on the "too nice" syndrome | BROKE::BNELSON | The virtue of adversity is fortitude | Fri Sep 16 1988 14:14 | 20 |
|
There are probably various reasons for the "too nice" behaviour, but I'll
restrict myself to the one I know about. I know about it because I used to
suffer from it, without realizing it was a flaw in me. I used to be too
giving, too willing to bend over backwards for others without ever asking
for anything in return. I finally realized that life is give *and* take,
and so I've learned to stick up for myself and expect things back. I've
learned how to deal with situations where that doesn't happen. And I've
learned that it's a real flaw -- at least for myself -- to give *too*
much. So, I simply don't give quite so much anymore, and I'm more choosey
about who I give to. And I consider myself more now (hmm, how to say *that*
without sounding conceited!). It was sure a hard realization to come to.
Wow, this is probably one of the most poorly worded notes I've ever written!
Hopefully, anyone who knows what I'm talking about understands what I'm
*trying* to say.
Brian
|
| 570.48 | It doesn't always pay to be a "nice guy" | ANT::P_STUCZYNSKI | Worcesters Best | Fri Sep 16 1988 14:56 | 3 |
| People will take advantage of you.....
Peter_s
|
| 570.49 | | COMET::BRUNO | Outlaw Kitty Porn! | Fri Sep 16 1988 15:21 | 3 |
| I think there's a distinct border between 'nice' and 'gullible'.
Greg
|
| 570.50 | To be . . . or NOT to be..... | ANT::P_STUCZYNSKI | Worcesters Best | Mon Sep 19 1988 09:24 | 15 |
| RE: .49
> I think there's a distinct border between 'nice' and 'gullible'.
I think it may be possible for a 'nice' person to be 'gullible', and/or
a 'gullible' person to be 'nice',,, but what do you call the person
who takes advantage of these people.?.?.?.?.?
What would you rather be,, the 'nice' and/or 'gullible' person,,,
or would you rather be the person who takes advantage of them........
Peter_s
|
| 570.51 | | REGENT::NIKOLOFF | channel one = Lazaris | Mon Sep 19 1988 12:26 | 7 |
| re: Peter_s
Good point. As someone very special said to me, "What if you give,
and give all your life". What would be so bad about
that? Far better than if you 'take and take' all your
life.....
|
| 570.52 | I'm trying not to get discouraged.... | QUARK::LIONEL | Ad Astra | Wed Dec 28 1988 21:37 | 27 |
| It's been interesting looking back through this note, reflecting on
past dating experiences and how they've ended. While I've never
been told I was "too nice", what I have heard, more times than I
ever wanted to, was "You deserve someone better than me". This
is usually said as I'm informed that I'm now "history".
I think I can understand the motivation for saying something like
this - they think they are avoiding hurt feelings by making me
feel that I am really better off without them. Well, in one case
that was definitely true, but otherwise it's just damned depressing,
especially when it comes from someone whom I thought a lot of and
said to myself "finally, I've found a GOOD woman!", and I find
myself resentful that *I* wasn't given the opportunity to decide
who I do or do not deserve.
I still believe what I wrote back in .3 (or wherever it was) - I
consider myself "one of the good guys", and have no intention of
deliberately setting out to become a slime, just so that some women
will feel that I DO deserve them, but the thought is tempting.
Of course, this is not universal - I have met several good women with
whom things just didn't work out, and I didn't get "the line", but
I wish I knew why it is such a popular thing to say.
I guess I'll just keep trying.
Steve
|
| 570.53 | | SSDEVO::GALLUP | UA -- u'r hot, 'Cats! | Wed Dec 28 1988 23:49 | 36 |
|
"You deserve better than me...."
ahhhh.... a line I've heard many many times... It did tend to
p*ss me off for a long time....who are they to decide what is
right and not right for me... In the last major
breakup....(very major!) I heard it....so, I asked what he
meant... (its a good thing we were still very good
friends...) It wasn't so much that I deserved "better", but
that he had realized that there were things in our
relationship that he just could not give me...and to be truly
happy he realized that I needed those things.... The way he
explained it to me was more of a "I don't want to hurt you in
the future when I can't give these things to you...."
I started thinking a lot about that and he was right...we all
"need" certain things in a relationship to make us truly
happy... if the other person cannot fill that need, no matter
how much it hurts, the relationship will have to end...or go
on in misery forever.... I "needed" affection and to be able
to give affection....he was not an affectionate guy....he was
VERY uncomfortable with affection... We cared for each other
very much, but he knew there was something I needed that he
could not give...
I guess what I am trying to say, as I look back at the times
I've heard that line...yes, some of the times were just a way
to justify hurting me to themselves....but, by far, the most
times I heard it, it was a very self-less gesture....coming
from the heart...looking at it that way has made it hurt a
lot less...
next time you hear it....think about what it is they are
REALLY trying to say....
kath
|
| 570.54 | just wondering | WMOIS::B_REINKE | Mirabile dictu | Thu Dec 29 1988 21:34 | 20 |
| "you are too nice", "You deserve better than me"...
remembering back in the past when I was actively dating..
this was often a way to tell a man/guy that there was no
chemistry there, that there wasn't anything wrong with him
as a person, but that he was about as exciting to you physically
as a baked potatoe. I honestly don't think that even in today's
world of greater personal openness that a person of either gender
would appreciate being told that by someone they were dating.
Would the single people in this file rather hear, something like
"dating you is like going out with my brother/sister/father/mother"
or "I like you as a friend but you do nothing for me phyisically"..
or would you rather, "you are a nice person but..."
Perhaps if people really got the 'honest' answers they think that
they want, they might perfer the evasions?
Bonnie�
|
| 570.55 | honesty is best... | MCIS2::AKINS | My BRAIN hurtz!!! | Fri Dec 30 1988 04:12 | 9 |
| re:.54
Why not just say "There was no chemestry there"?
They do it all the time on Love Connection. :-)
Bill
|
| 570.56 | Be open | FSLPRD::JLAMOTTE | days of whisper and pretend | Fri Dec 30 1988 07:57 | 2 |
| Or why not accept and develop a friendship. Must all relationships
have 'chemistry'.
|
| 570.57 | Miscellaneous thoughts | LDYBUG::GOLDMAN | Only one who risks is truly free... | Fri Dec 30 1988 10:05 | 36 |
| "You deserve better"...."you're such a *nice* girl"... yup, I've
been there. And I used to think there was something wrong with that - and
I just didn't know how to change who/what I was. I finally decided that I
didn't have to - eventually, I'd find someone who would appreciate it. (Or
at least I hoped so - I've always been a bit of an idealist and romanticist,
what can I say? ;-) )
My last major relationship ended with "it's nothing you did - you're
a great girlfriend, but you deserve better". Months later, I looked
back and realized that it was true - I had deserved better. My friends and
family tried to tell me that, but at the time I couldn't/wouldn't hear them.
A lot of it was needs I had that he couldn't fill, and some of it was just
the way he treated me. In this case, I think it was just a line and I had
a hard time understanding just what was going on. I suspect that he felt
somewhat "guilty" because he couldn't return what I was giving.
Re: Bonnie
My first "real" relationship was with a good friend in college. We
both felt something more than friendship and decided to explore that. Actually,
he had wanted to try it earlier, but I wasn't ready to get involved. We went
out for a while, and then he came to me and told me that he thought we did
better as "just friends" as opposed to "being a couple". He was open and honest
about it, and while it hurt at first, I had to agree with him. I'd much rather
that approach than the "too good for me" line. We're still good friends today.
Re: Steve
Don't give up! I think for all the "nice" guys out there, there are
"nice" women who will appreciate them and who will be appreciated right back.
I've been seeing a "nice guy" for several months now, and my comment to my
best friend recently was "You're right - I did deserve better, and I think
I'm now 'getting what I deserve'!". It's nice to finally find someone that
understands how you feel and why you do certain things.
-Amy-
|
| 570.58 | | BUSY::KLEINBERGER | Most of an angel is in the inside | Sat Dec 31 1988 16:56 | 36 |
| Re: last few flurry of replies...
Sometimes, I think we forget to be friends.... we get to the "lets
take off our clothes and put this love to the test" syndrome much
too quickly.
I know I will shy away from a guy if I feel like I am being pressured
too quickly. I have ended some relationships because of this. Being
told "I love you" after a month or two tends to scare me. I don't
know how to handle it, so I end the relationship. I don't know how
to tell them I'm not ready to love you, I can't hurt their feelings,
so I totally walk away, rather than hurt them with words.
I still think though that relationships tend to go just too fast.
I have been in a relationship where it did go too fast, and I AND
he were just too uncomfortable... If a relationship is going to
work out, then why not just let it go slowly?... I mean if it develops
into a lifelong commitment, then you have the rest of your life
for other developments, right?
As for being too nice, most of us tend to have that in us. I haven't
given up being nice, but I have built this wall around my heart
that will take someone very strong to break it down. If I ever
let anyone. Now, I just date here and there, now and then, but I
have replaced men with a new love in my life... ice.... its wonderful
being out on the ice, and getting to know you, and discovering just
what you can do and experiences new highs everyday...
Remember, if a relationship is going to be, it will be, no amount
of shoving, pushing, manipulating, or whatever will make it be.
Time and patience, and a lot of understanding and learning, and
both people wanting to be there, will be the only thing that will lead
to a relationship....
Just my 5.5 cents worth...
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| 570.59 | Experience gained in School of Hard Knocks. | COGITO::STERLING | Aye, Shiver Me Timbers, Support the NRA. | Sun Jan 08 1989 18:39 | 10 |
|
To some people, the words "I love you" hold a much different
meaning than the words "I'm IN love with you".
The next time someone says "I love you" ask them just what they
mean by that. It may save you some heartaches down the line.
Dave
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| 570.60 | | WSE159::HOLT | I'm the KGB! | Sun Jan 08 1989 19:02 | 2 |
|
If I asked my sweetie that, I might not ever hear the words again...
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| 570.61 | | SSDEVO::GALLUP | UA -- u'r hot, 'Cats! | Sun Jan 08 1989 19:41 | 8 |
| RE: .60
Why? Does your sweetie expect you to be a mind-reader?
I think I would be PLEASED if someone asked me...I'd love to
EXPLAIN and SHOW them exactly what I meant!
k
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| 570.62 | | VAXWRK::CONNOR | We are amused | Mon Jan 09 1989 13:51 | 4 |
| RE .61
I'm Asking :-)
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| 570.63 | It's the only way to find out | IAMOK::KOSKI | suggestions welcome | Thu Jan 12 1989 13:02 | 3 |
| I get the oddest responses back to ILU. Including "why do you think
that is?" It's fine to ask but sometimes I'd prefer an ILU2.
|
| 570.64 | | YODA::COOK | Are my ears bleeding yet? | Thu Jan 12 1989 13:52 | 7 |
|
re .63
You might prefer it, but if they don't mean it, it's worse than
them not saying anything.
/prc
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| 570.65 | being nice, chemistry, in love... | CSOA1::KRESS | | Fri Jan 13 1989 08:23 | 38 |
| re: .56
Joyce,
You bring up a valid point. Not all relationships must have
"chemistry" but when one person feels the chemistry is there and
the other doesn't, it certainly puts a strain on the friendship
(especially for the person who feels the chemistry).
re: 59
Dave,
Great point. There is a difference in loving someone. I recently
ended a relationship. I loved him but I wasn't IN Love with him.
I kept thinking that perhaps with time, I would fall in love. I
reached a point where I realized I was only fooling myself.
Fortunately, I was dating a man who was very understanding....and
we parted friends or should I say on friendly terms.
Getting back to the topic of this note, like most others, I would
recommend that the author be herself. Your best friend is and always
will be yourself...accept that friend and don't make her/him to
be something she/he is not.
Kris
BTW - just an aside here....I had a professor who stopped in the
middle of a lecture and voiced a thought which had just popped into
his mind. "Have you ever wondered why the nicest people you know
end up marrying jerks?" Someone in my class answered that perhaps
it was because only the nice people will put up with the jerks.
|
| 570.66 | No! | CSC32::REINBOLD | | Fri Jan 13 1989 18:44 | 4 |
| re .65 BTW
My boyfriend and I are *both* nice!!
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| 570.67 | | MCIS2::AKINS | Where does he get those wonderful toys..? | Thu Jul 06 1989 00:57 | 17 |
| I know I was one of the folks earlier that said that I was considered
too nice. I just found out what being too nice can do.
I was too nice to my girlfriend. I put her on a pedestal and made
sure that she was happy no matter what. I put her my top priority
in life. I didn't see that I was slowly taking over that life.
She had to do nothing in order to be pleased. I took care of her
every whim. I would never let any hurt fall apon her; Yet I never
saw the hurt I was inflicting. I smothered her and I took over
her life. Of course we are now broken up, I guess I found out too
late. I don't blame her for not telling me before it was too late,
It must be very hard to tell someone you love that they are loving
you too much.
Bill
(P.S. Sorry Chris.)
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| 570.68 | | USCTR1::KGALLANT | What's he like anyway... | Mon Jul 10 1989 12:33 | 19 |
|
Wow!! You just hit the nail on the head, Bill!! Wanna
get together with my boyfriend and explain that to HIM!?
(half smilie)
Things are going much better between him and I now, but
every so often I have to explain to him that I NEED time
to myself with my friends or just my family.
I know he means well, but like you did to your girlfriend,
he can smother me. I consider myself to be reasonably
independent and ENJOY time to myself. Often times, he
doesn't see that and wants to spend every hour of the day
with me.
We're working on it though!! (8
Tigga~~ (Kim)
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| 570.69 | | VIDEO::MORRISSEY | First class ticket to ecstasy | Wed Jul 12 1989 11:16 | 16 |
|
My fiance used to be like this with his ex-grilfriend..
But that's because she forced it on him. She wanted
to be with him every minute of his spare time...and he
gave it to her.
When we first started dating he was afraid to ask if
I minded if he wanted to play golf, or go out after
work with the guys. Of course I didn't mind!! He
has his free time and I have mine. He does understand
now that we don't have to spend every waking hour together
and he doesn't have to bend over backwards to please me
like he had to with Sheila. He used to be "too nice"
now he's "just right" :-)
|
| 570.70 | She had to want it in the first place... | MCIS2::AKINS | Where does he get those wonderful toys..? | Sun Jul 16 1989 23:37 | 17 |
| Yeah, My Ex kinda forced it apon herself too. She always wanted
to sepnd time with me and be a part of everything in my life. I
let her and she let me. It was mutual, until she started to feel
smothered. Then she pulled away. I just didn't notice this change
and I kept going on the way we used to. So then it was me constantly
trying to be with her and nothing in return. I can see why things
fell apart, but now I no longer do things like that. The girl I'm
currently seeing and I make sure that we each have our own time,
while stil making plenty of time to be together. Things are going
great too, I may also add!
The Joker
(Tigg~~ I'll talk to him if you want but it's best if he figures
it out for himeslf..... 8-) )
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| 570.71 | | USCTR1::KGALLANT | I'm a livewire... | Mon Jul 31 1989 11:55 | 19 |
|
RE: Joker
Thanks, buddy. But you're right. He DOES have to find out
for himself and slowly but surely he's learning. (8
(With a nudge now and then) (8
It's even more difficult when he doesn't hang around with
his old buddies because they're basically drug addicts,
alcoholics and general losers. He doesn't WANT to hang
around with them and *I* don't want him hanging around
with them.
For me, seems like the majority of my friends have moved
away. )8 Basically, we got each other and sometimes it's
just not enough.
Tigga~~~
|