Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    If your SO just conducts business over the phone with this person,
    what's the problem?  However, if he goes on business trips to the
    region, then I'd talk to him about it.  
    
    If the former is the case, what's wrong with putting a face with
    a voice that you do business with?
    

    Personally, I wouldn't like it.  But, thats me.  I think the real
    question is what do yu feel?  Granted that the other person IS on
    the other side of the country, Does this person travel to that part
    of the country?  If so....... If not, dont worry.  Is your relationship
    stable (no, I dont want to know, ask yourself that)?  How would
    he/she feel if you did the same thing??  
              Just a babbling idiots reply.... Al

    Re: .0
    
    Complete and total trust is awfully difficult.  I'd probably worry
    about it a little.  Worrying a lot is tempting, but dangerous, since
    it could easily cause a rift.
    
    Sounds like you've already discussed the matter.  Warn your SO that
    you are feeling a little (or a lot) jealous.  At least that way,
    the problem is out in the open so it can be more easily dealt with.

    
    It sounds like you need to examine your own feelings more closely.
    Ask yourself, how well do I *really* know him?; How secure am I in
    our relationship; and, How would he feel if I were to suddenly 
    receive a picture of a business associate in the mail?
    
    From what you said, it sounds like he's been honest with you.  He
    didn't have to tell you about the picture, nor did he have to tell
    you he wished to keep it.
    
    If he hasn't given you reason to doubt or mistrust him in the past,
    leave it alone.  But, if it really bothers you that much, ask him
    to talk about it.  One more suggestion:  If you decide to talk to
    him more, let him know it's *your* feelings you are having trouble
    with.  Don't put it on him because he's liable to become defensive.
    
    Good Luck,
    - Beckie

    I have a little difficulty seeing how the possession of a picture
    by itself can be a problem. How that picture is treated relative
    to other things might (or might not) indicate something:
        
    Is this picture the only picture (of anybody) he has? Or does he
    keep lots of pictures? Does he keep it in his wallet? At work? At home
    on his night table? Is it stuffed into a drawer? Does he have a picture
    of you? (If not, get him one!) Where does he keep it?

    Where's your SO's picture of you?

    I can certainly understand that your initial reaction was one of
    concern.  Probably only time will tell if the concern is justified
    or not.  But, I really think that the best way to handle the situation
    is to make very little of it, act as though it doesn't bother you
    in the least, and pretend (just in case it isn't quite true) that
    you have so much confidence in regard to your own attractiveness
    and desirability that that little picture doesn't worry you one
    bit.  
    
    Lorna
    

    
    
    I'm wondering why a co-worker who does business with your husband
    long distance, would send her photo n the first place?  Who cares
    what the person on the other end of the phone/terminal looks like
    if the relationship is strictly business?
    
                     Deborah
    
    (sorry if I sound unduly suspicious.  I've had enough personal ex-
     perience with 'business relationships' (long distance and otherwise)
     that blossomed into physical/emotional relationships, to be very
     cynical about the whole thing...)
    
    

    He wants to keep the picture and he finds her attractive?  What's
    he going to do, show it to everyone and say "Get a load of who
    I do business over the phone with" and then slip it back into
    his wallet?  And you also have to think about the next conversation
    he's going to have with her.
    
    "Hi, I got your picture in the mail, what a nice surprise (assuming
    he didn't request it, we don't know that do we?).  You're an 
    attractive woman I must say.  I had no idea I was doing business
    with such a beauty.  What's that?  You want a picture of me?"
    
    You can't tell me he's not going to bring up the picture the next
    time he talks to her, especially since he *wants* to keep it.
    
    I'd be damn suspicious, and if he made business trips out
    there, I'd be damned inflammed.
    
    Sherm

    
    Sherm is right.  We are all adult enough to know that one thing
    often leads to another.  The fact that he carries her picture in
    his wallet says it all.  You can bet that the relationship is more
    than just a business one.  The picture is a definate RED FLAG!
    Only a fool would not be alarmed.  
    
    This kind of stuff happens all the time.  Phil Donahue has done
    several shows on it.... business relationships turning into affairs...
    Sometimes it starts with working on a project with another.  It
    could start with an innocent lunch or two.  Could start from conducting
    phone business.  Often it starts over the network, at Digital.  
    It could start by something like postcards or even Christmas cards.
    
    One person flerts, to feel the other person out.  If the response
    is not discouraging, then it starts to snowball, sometimes getting
    out of control to where both people have gotten in too deep.  Then
    something has to happen.  What will it be?
    
    I've seen these things happen at work.  Most folks have.  You have
    to be very careful.  You will reap what you sow.  Is that scary
    or what?
    
    It's decision time.  A heart to heart talk is due.  Don't be afraid
    to express your concerns/fears/worries.
    
    Questions to ponder, perhaps to ask:
    
    How did swapping photos come about anyway?
    Is there any "reason" for keeping the picture?
    Was there any "reason" for swapping them?
    Why are you so interested in this person on the other side of the
    country?
    What does this person mean to you?
    Do you have special feelings for this person?
    Would you like to meet this person?  If so - why?
    How do you feel about me being upset about the photo?
   
    You must be firm.  You must get a handle on the situation.  This
    kind of stuff is ok for single's on the loose, but not your SO.
    
    Best of luck.  Be strong.  Talk to your SO.
    
    Dwight

    
    	RE: the last few replies
    
    	 These are all starting to sound like my ex-wife talking when
    	she found a picture I had of an old girlfriend back in high
    	school. What's the big deal? In my case she was going through
    	some old pictures my mom had and gave to us when she came across
    	it. She made a big deal out of it and demanded I burn it right
    	then and there to prove I didn't have anything going on the
    	side with this person. What a bunch of crap, I hadn't seen that
    	woman since high school, more than 15 years earlier. I still
    	didn't want to get rid of it and told her so. Not because I
    	had any feelings for this person, more because it WAS a part
    	of my past long before my ex-wife came into the picture. Should
    	I pretend my life before my ex-wife didn't exist? A picture
    	is only an image, what damage can an image do? How does one
    	get from a mere picture to having a relationship? I mean I was
    	accused of every form of low-down cheating trick just because
    	she found an old picture I had got back when I was a kid.
    
    	 I wouldn't be afraid of a picture, if you must worry, worry
    	about real people that are in contact with him. I don't know
    	about the rest of you, but I do like to feel I know the person
    	I am doing business with on the other end of the phone. I hate
    	phones to start with, but if I feel I know the person I can
    	atleast make doing business on the phone more pleasant. Unless
    	he has given you some reason, and I don't count a picture as
    	one, why dis-trust him? If you are that insucure about your
    	relationship to start with it must not be in very good shape.
    	If you can't trust the one you say you love in dealing with
    	someone across the country who does business over the phone
    	then maybe you should end the relationship. I don't want to
    	sound mean over this, it just seems if such a small item is
    	such a big deal then the relationship can't be on very firm
    	footing to start with.
    

    seems to me a lot of these reply's are just adding gas to the fire!!
    if your relationship is a solid one don't sweat it or the next thing
    you know you'll be looking for any excuse to challenge his feelings
    for you....   the fastest way I know to end a relationship is to
    accuse your SO of unfaithful thoughts, sooner or later enough of
    this will turn him off to you and on to someone else.  
    
    every one, male and female alike, enjoys it when someone flirts
    with them. It makes us feel good about ourselves, it adds to our
    confidence, its healthy!!
    
    this picture thing is probably no more than a a kind of novelty
    for your SO and the more it bugs you the bigger the effect it has
    on him.  Ignore it and after a while it will go away......
    
    RJC 

    I dunno, the picture I might not mind, but in his wallet?  Wallets
    are for things you can't live without like credit cards and blood
    types and next of kin and money - I mean, most women carry sizable
    wallets (sorry, but it's true), and most men carry pretty spare
    wallets (they have to carry them in their pockets after all, so
    they must be fairly small and light to be comfortable).
    
    are there family pictures in the wallet, too?

    I don't mean to add fuel to the fire - but I'd ask some serious
    questions.  
    
    -Jody
    

    
    I think I better reply here and clear up a misunderstanding.  In
    my original note, I said he got a wallet sized picture of her. I
    didnt say he did carry it in his wallet, but I never said he didnt
    either so for that, I apologize for not being more specific.  
    
    No he didnt carry it in his wallet (it was in his night table), and
    because I made a big deal about it, he ended up throwing it away (at
    the moment - he may have dug it of the trash later for all I know.)  
                             
    I can see both sides - I can see how I may be overreacting on one
    hand, but the jealous side doesnt like it at all.  He says he has
    no feelings what so ever for this person and she means nothing to
    him and I believe him.  But I think it may be true what someone
    said earlier - it may make him feel good that someone would take
    the time to send a picture but I just dont like this *between the
    lines* crap.
               
    

    I think there is a fair chance that the person who sent the picture
    has a crush on your husband.  Your husband is probably flattered.
    What you might want to suggest to him is that it would be unfair
    for him to encourage that sort of feeling in her if he does not,
    as he said, hold any remarkable feelings for her.  As for keeping
    the picture - I'd probably be unsettled too.  
    
    Marion

    
    
    re. 10
    
    I also forgot to mention in my last note that my SO said he does
    NOT find this person attractive.  I had written *does not* in the
    original note but on its way through the system, in must have taken
    it out.  (Funny how those things happen ;^) ) 
    

This very same thing happened to me when I worked as Personnel support in
Mfg. in the Mill.  One of the support staff in Scotland and I conversed so
often that she wanted a picture of me so she'd know and feel closer to who
was on the other end of the phone line daily!  Kate sent me a photo of herself
and sent her manager with a camera to take some snapshots of me for her.
I thought it was quite nice actually, although I'd have never thought of
it.  Perhaps this is more common in Europe?

I wouldn't waste the time worrying if I were you.

Penny Smith
PARITY::SMITH

    Well, there is a slight difference, perhaps. Kate and Penny seem,
    by their names, to be of the same gender.

    Re: .19
    
    If you're going to worry any time a co-worker who doesn't happen
    to be of your gender wants to know you as a person, you're going
    to have trouble establishing reasonable working relations with a
    lot of co-workers.
    
    I suppose for the average heterosexual, there's more danger in a
    male-female relationship than in a same-sex relationship, and it
    doesn't pay to be too naive,  but on the other hand one can't go
    around assuming that every friendly interaction between a
    male-person and a female-person is aimed at leading to sexual
    intercourse if one wants to remain sane in a business
    environment.  
    
    Especially when there has been no other indication of a reason
    for lack of trust.

    --bonnie

    re: .15
    
    "I can see both sides. . .but I just dont like this *between the
    lines* crap."
               
    First of all, I think that it takes a fair amount of courage to
    admit that you might be interpreting an innocent situation through
    jealous eyes; I'm not sure which is tougher - admitting it to oneself
    or 'fessin' up in public.  But it seems to me that you've correctly
    identified the crux of the problem - the uncertainty.  While saying
    you *might* be off-base, the "warning light" feeling is certainly
    understandable.  Given the fact that things sometimes do go
    too far, I think it's wise to acknowledge all the possiblities.
    
    But regardless of what I or anyone else thinks or feels, it's
    important for you to reach a feeling of certainty.  It'll do
    you zero good for me to say "Don't (or do) worry. . ."  (aside 
    from knowing that others have their various views).  What I
    think *will* do some good is for you to reach a point of relative
    certainty.  I wish I could as easily declare how to do that, other
    than to say "Trust the gut and back it up with a ton of data". 
    
    For me the "get-it-out-on-the-table-and-poke-at-it-with-my-SO"
    route seems to work the best; not to say that it's easy - sometimes
    these discussions have to be revisited many times and those
    conversations aren't always, um, quite and peaceful.  But to my
    mind, feelings of certainty and security are big boppers in an
    important relationship so the effort is worth it.  It sounds to
    me like you're doing the right things (for you) - talking with
    your SO, discussing it here with friends, etc.  Based on that,
    I'd say you're on the right track.  As a manager used to occasionally
    say to me "If you trusted your process as much as I do, you wouldn't
    be worried."
    
    Steve
    

If you are concerned about somebody else becoming more important to your SO then
yourself, build up your relationship with your SO, don't tear down any
relationships your SO might have with other people!  If you're worried, it may
or may not be for a good reason, but it may not be for the reason you think.
Instead of worrying about the picture, worry about your relationship, or worry
about what makes you not trust your SO.

As a great man once said, 'trust is not that which is backed by data, trust
is that which is backed by faith.'

Jim. 

	After reading a couple replies here I started questioning my
    own spouse for working with people of the other gender. I am sorry,
    but there seem to be some pretty cynical people.. How can there
    ever be good relationships if people are always ready to expect
    the worst of a situation.????????
    	I can see the reason for being jealous, but maybe there should
    be some thought before listening to all the negative input. I think
    if I had put the original note in, and read all the messages after,
    I would be considering divorse......(not serious)
    	Why not try belief in your spouse and talking it over? 
    I had a similar experience and let it eat at me. It was tearing
    me up after listening to a (supposed) freinds advise.......... Well,
    when I finally decided to act like an adult and talk it over, I
    found out just how much my imagination was playing games with me.
    go talk to him and be open, but also make sure you do not put him
    on the defensive.................
    	It is amazing what communication can do.
    

        For my money, I would be very careful about whose advice I
        listened to on this sort of topic. Personally, I find divorce to
        be an unacceptable admission of defeat and a bad thing. I
        therefore view with alarm the high divorce rate we have in this
        country and often wonder what brings it about. My conclusion is
        that it is a combination of two things--marrying ill-advisedly
        and not putting much of a commitment into the marriage.
        
        A lot of the suspicion and "look out for number one" attitudes
        that I hear voiced not only in this discussion but in many many
        discussions of marriage, relationships and the like, strike me
        as symptomatic of the whole failure to work at making marriages
        work.
        
        Face it, the popular common wisdom of our liberated day and age
        goes hand in hand with ill-considered marriages, failure to put
        any real effort into making the marriage work, and too frequent
        resorting to easy divorce. Buying into that is, at least to my
        mind, setting yourself up to fail. Personally, I don't care to
        buy it. I test all advice about marriage against a couple of
        tests.
        
        First of all, does it place a high value on the success of the
        marriage or does it subordinate it to other interests? To me,
        marriage is an absolute commitment. You can't have and keep
        multiple absolute commitments, nor can you keep an absolute
        commitment which is not at the top of your priority list. (The
        possible exception here is that it may very well be possible to
        have an absolute commitment to God or some ethical system and
        still have an absolute commitment to marriage, assuming that
        your understanding of God or ethics and marriage are 100%
        consistant.)
        
        Secondly, how experienced with and successful at marriage are
        the people giving the advice? The practice of marriage is often
        quite different from na�ve theories and expectations of
        marriage. Furthermore, failure at marriage can often be a
        sufficiently traumatic experience to color one's perception and
        judgement on the subject. Personally, I find the advice and
        examples of my parents, grandparents, and the friends and
        relatives of their generations who've had 40 and 50 year
        successful, happy and fulfilling marriages to be someone more
        sound than those of a good number of my peers.
        
        In the end, the old traditional values applied with good
        judgment and a modern concern for parity and fairness between
        the sexes seem a lot more workable to me than many of the values
        advocated by the media, supposed experts, and noters off the
        street.
        
        Just my opinion, for what it's worth.
        
        JimB.

    RE:1
    
    
    	just one more thought if I may,.
    		Before doing anything you may later regret please think
    it through. I feel as .24 does in regards to marriage, (or any
    committment for that matter) .... You should work at it as hard
    as possible. Therefore, if you are finding it hard to make rash
    judgements, do not rely on solely freinds and peers advise.
    	I do not attempt to denounce others input, but rather think
    that professional help can be more valuable. At times it is our
    own mainds that may bigger issues than really exist. Seek a therapist
    if you can and let it out. talk it over and find a solution. It
    can make the difference between success and failure.  (and
    relationships are worth fighting for.)
    

    To me, building roads and bridges (also called communicating) is
    THE most important thing anyone can do in their lifetime.  If, in
    your situation, you are the better communicator, try taking the
    initative and sharing your feelings with your SO.  An example (from
    a time in my life when I too battled jealousy) I can think of...
    "Mike, I need to talk about some feelings I've been having lately
    that bother me.  Would you be willing to listen?  (he said, "yes")
    I know how happy you are to see Julie again after all these years,
    and I'm really very glad that you have a chance to catch up on old
    times, old places, and old friends, but in spite of this, I've been
    having some feelings of insecurity that make me feel really jealous.
    I've been fighting with myself to let them go, but they just haven't
    gone away yet, so I thought that if I could share them with you,
    and we could talk about why I might feel this way, it will help
    me alot."  We then proceeded to talk, listen to the other person's
    point of view, try to understand the other person's point of view
    and acknowledge that they had a right to feel that way, and finally
    wound up closer than before.  There's a lot to be said for a person
    who is willing to "work things out" when you're trying to put together
    a permanent relationship.  It MUST come from both parties on a
    consistent basis--even when it's hard (especially when it's hard).
    In this past instance, as it turned out, Mike was not yet totally
    committed to our relationship and I was, so I was afraid of losing
    something I wasn't really sure that I had.  Isn't that really what
    jealousy is?  Today, we are happily married, and quite frankly,
    I haven't felt jealous for a long time.
    
    Best of Luck!
    Barb

    Personally, I believe one cannot soley make a decision on what others
    may suggest.  Suggestions are great, they're a good way to see another
    perspective to situations, yet the final outcome has got to come
    from you and no one els.  Do yourself a favor!  Sit back and truly
    go over your feelings.  Try to justify why you feel one way or another,
    and that is based upon your feelings, not what you think you should
    feel.  If you still feel the situation is uncomfortable to deal
    with, tell you SO.  Take the conversation to wherever it may lead.
     You may find out a lot more about yourself and your SO when you
    do this.  It seems to be good therapy for working out this kind
    of thing.  Example: I have been through many of these predicaments,
    and only to find out after 14 years with the same person, that neither
    of us wanted to hurt the other, therefore we based our feeling on
    that premise instead of just coming out with it.  So many little
    things that mean no harm can get in the way of even the most solid
    relationship.  It's the learning how to deal with each other/very
    different personalities and situations that make the good things
    happen.  Stick to your guns and say what you feel.  This helps.
    
    Been there and back