Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    
    I think I would GIVE my life for maybe a couple of people, however,
    I think if I were in the situation, I don't know what I would do.
    I would risk my life for probably a few more people, and if in the
    process might end up giving my life for them.  
    
    Honestly, I feel that no matter how I think now, I might not have
    the courage at the time, and maybe at the time I would GIVE my life
    for someone else, maybe someone I didn't even know.   In situations
    like that, people often do curious, or maybe heroic or even cowardly
    things, but one thing is for sure, people are unpredictable.
    
    Paul

    I have thought of this situation and I find it hard to decide what
    I would do.  At some times I am braver than at other times and I
    feel I would give my life for someone that I really care for. One
    big question to me is about giving my life for my country. Ideally
    I feel that if the situation arised, I would.  But the thought of
    dying in a senseless war really scares me. 
    
    By the way, does this have to be a painful death?  When thinking
    about it, this may be a determinant (for me anyways).

    See also note 4.
    	Steve

Risking my life, ie war, where you don't really know if death will 
come, and if so when -- that I would do.  I am an optimist and would 
expect the best, meaning survival.

But to give my life to face immediate and certain death -- i hate to 
say it but I'd probably wimp out (unless it was somehow a quick and 
instinctive reaction).

I think even the bravest don't, in general, expect to die in most 
hero circumstances, for instance the guy who jumped into the Potomic 
River in D.C. a few years ago when the plane crashed.  And no way am 
i in his class.

	~mike~

    Must we *really* recapitulate topic 4?
    
    	Jon

        Having just skimmer 4.*, I don't think this is actually the same
        topic, although they're close. I know I would risk my life for
        many people--my immediate family, loved ones, and close friends,
        and probably even total strangers. To "give" my life, to walk
        knowingly into certain death is harder--harder because my life
        isn't entirely mine to give. In part it belongs to my sons and
        wife. Not only would I be sacrificing my life but their father
        and husband. If I had time to weigh the consequences I would
        be more careful for not wanting to deprive them.
        
        There are many folk in this world whose life I value higher than
        my own, but how much I value it isn't the only factor. As state
        above, My life is also indirectly valuable to me by being
        valuable to some of those people I value so highly. Those whose
        life I value more than my own (in something resembling
        descending order) are my wife and kids blood relatives, several
        of my relatives by marriage, a couple of unrelated loved ones
        ones, the rest of my relatives and my closest friends, and so
        on, through to children in general, old people in general, women
        in general (yes, I am still a sexist), etc. I honestly don't
        know where the cut-off is, where I would save, "I value you less
        than myself".
        
        I don't think that bravery and self sacrifice comes as much from
        disbelief in the risks involved as from love, faith and ethics.
        When you risk your life or your well being, you do it from love
        of the other person faith in yourself, God or the fates, and the
        compulsion of your conscience. These things can also reduce
        fear, but I think that courage and the diminishing of fear come
        from the same sources rather than one causing the other. At
        least that's the way it seems to me. 
        
        JimB.

Give my life for who, is not the only issue here...  Another important question
is why am I giving my life for this other person?  What am I giving my life for?
I surely would not give my life for my brother to have a new Porshe.

If we are talking about giving our life to save another's life, I still think
that for me, the circumstances would have quite a bearing on my reaction. I
doubt that I would *give* my life to save someone from their own stupidity,
especially if it was for something against my best advise (which is not allways
the best :-))  I would probably risk my life to take to rescue them from their
stupidity, though...

Jim. 

    
    .7 makes an excellent point.  Circumstance is very important here.
    
    I have given this question some thought even before it was asked
    here.  I am able to conceive of a set of conditions under which
    I would die for someone else.  The list of people is very short,
    and the range of circumstances very narrow.  I don't consider myself
    particularly essential to the health and well-being of anyone or
    anything, but it's hard to think of oneself as more useful dead
    than alive.
    
    DFW

    I think I'm too selfish.  Either that or I can't really say.
    I'd like to think I'm capable of that kind of devotion, however,
    sitting here typing it seems unlikely.  In the heat of danger, or
    whatever, with adrenalin and all, perhaps.  
    
    However, there is at least one person whom I would give my life
    for.  I reached this conclusion simply because I can't think of
    any circumstance where I would stand by and idly watch him die.
    
    Self-preservation instincts hope I avoid this situation if at
    all possible.
    
    Mary-Michael

    I don't think I'd give it for anybody, but I'd probably risk it
    for anybody. Whether I would or not would depend not on the person
    but the danger involved. Hard to say sitting back in my safe chair,
    but I don't think who the person was (close vs stranger) would affect
    my decision to attempt rescue or not, but would affect my anguish
    if I couldn't or chose not to try due to my probable death. Interesting
    now that I think about it, but I like to think I have a love of
    everyone's life and everybody deserves to live.
    
    It also touched back many years ago during a very unhappy portion
    of my life that I had fantasy that I'd die saving somebody in a
    risky situation - would make mine more meaningful. Since then, things
    have improved so I now love life including mine!
    
    Still popping in occasionally... 

What we seem to be talking about is a 'known' situation, in that you know that:
                                  
1) If you make the sacrifice, you will certainly die.

2) If you make the sacrifice, the other person will certainly live.

3) If you do not make the sacrifice, the other person will certainly die.

This is a far cry from most risk/rescue situations where you don't know any
of these three factors with certainty.

I think that although it would be harder to give your life for someone else's
life then in real life, because (supposedly) there is a certainty that you will
die.  I think that that knowing that without your sacrifice the other person
would certainly die, and with your sacrifice the other person would certainly
live would have an even bigger effect on me, and would in most circumstances
motivate me to make the sacrifice. 

Jim.

    I would rather be dead and have my daughter be alive, than to be
    alive and have my daughter be dead.  I guess that must mean that
    I would give my life for her.  But, it all comes down to selfishness
    because a world without her really frightens me more than oblivion
    or whatever death might be like.  However, other than her,
    self-preservation wins out.  (Sorry, Mom, but you're a lot older
    than me, and I never was that close to my brother...)
    
    Lorna