Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    Kill 'em with kindness... 
    
    grins,
    Marge
    

    Treat them the same as you treat the arrogant people that you must
    deal with every day at work or elsewhere. I personally choose to
    ignore them. It's not always easy when your blood pressure is rising
    but you are not going to change them. Dealing with slime is all
    part of life but no sense in lowering yourself to their level. If
    they don't go away I usually do something like smile and say something
    nice and/or off the wall. That'll throw 'em off track every time.
    Most important of all...never argue with an idiot.
    
    Bahama Mama

    If I run across a situation where a question has been responded
    to with an arrogant reply, and if I know the answer (or something
    close), I'll respond anyway, and include words of encouragement
    for the original questioner.  I'll NEVER say anything about the
    arrogant reply directly.
    
    A related annoyance is where someone disagrees with you by insulting
    you, rather than just stating their disagreement and reasons.  In
    fact, this happened to me just yesterday.  I don't know what can
    be done about that.
    					Steve

    oh ohhhhhhhh
    Kerry here.
    Uhhh every moderator on every conference i go into really likes
    me.
    
    They generally just don't like my notes.
    One thing Mr. Nigel (cold shivver - moi friends know why :) ) I
    agree with the bulk of what you are saying, but...
    isn't it easy to simply ignore them......sooner or later they go
    awayand all thats left is nonsense like I pen.
    

|< Note 171.5 by QUARK::LIONEL "Reality is frequently inaccurate" >
|    
|    A related annoyance is where someone disagrees with you by insulting
|    you, rather than just stating their disagreement and reasons.  In
|    fact, this happened to me just yesterday.  I don't know what can
|    be done about that.

In this case, there are a number of options, depending on what you want to
achieve.

a. If you want to clear up the situation, send mail to the person who wrote 
the reply/note, commenting on the insult and asking if it was intended as a
humorous comment. (one of the issues which we face constantly in this 
electronic age is the inability to put inflections into notes/mail reliably).

b. If you want to stir up the situation (not that I think you would, Steve,
given what you've been through already for H-R), go complain to the moderator
and DEC personnel that you're being insulted, maligned, harassed, abused and
thwarted by the notes conference, and "something should be done". Just be 
prepared for the ghost of a certain prominent motes-champion to come and haunt
you for the rest of your days :-)

c. If it is below the noise level (ie, this person doesn't make a habit of
insulting you), ignore it.

d. If you want sympathy, show the "insult" to all your friends as an example
of how misunderstood and maligned you are. This should get you hugs from your
female friends, and free beer from your male friends. (-:. [it's worked for
me in the past, by the way]

	Hope this helps
		Nigel

I think my attitude is along the lines of Nigel's and Bob's...

Some people are allways pains, there's no hope for them, other then to hope that
peer pressure in the form of many unconnected people tactly point out the folly
of their ways, and hope someday they will see the light.

Some people have a bad day, and explode at you undeservedly.  Those you can
ignore, realizing that it has nothing to do with you.

Some people are touchy and stubborn on particular topics...

If you can do something that might help, do it, otherwise keep quiet.  DTRT

Jim 

      Be polite and as factual as you can in your notes and replies to the
extent you can.(we all blow up now and then). Nothing shows up a jerk for
what they are more than a nice polite reply to an inflammatory tirade.
I have even seen this result in a apology now and then. 
       I have to agree with re.# 1 killing them with kindess  is the
best approach. You get your point across without becoming abusive
yourself. 
                                                         Mike                

    Ignore them, unless someone is getting harmed.  Then, perhaps, the
    notesfile moderator should step in (or be prompted to step in)
    and either delete the offending notes, correspond with the
    offender (who may not know he/she is being offensive), or
    placate the offendee (if it seems that skins are getting
    unreasonably thin).  Also, if I think I am the one who is getting
    harmed, I think it's up to me to initiate some action if the
    moderator does not do so on his/her own.  Moderators are
    busy people.
    
    --Louise

    Many of the more obnoxious noters sound an awful lot like my two
    teenage sons when they are argueing with each other or me. So 
    I just form a mental picture of them as being rather young and
    ignore them. You don't get anywhere argueing with people who
    aren't listening. 
    

    Re: .1 and .10
    
    Amen. And to go one step further in catching the offender off guard,
    it sometimes pays to find something they have said and compliment
    them for it.
    
    Works wonders.
    

    I sometimes feel as if arrogance is very judgemental.  If I, in
    turn, judge someone as being arrogant then ___________________?
    
    I agreee with .1, .10 and .13.
    
    John

    
    Ignore the insult/abuse. VAXnotes, like TV, has a switch. Moderators
    can hide really offensive notes/replies & deal with the offending
    party through MAIL. We the users can hit NEXT REPLY and go on from
    there. 
    
    Noters live in the equvalent of an electronic "small town." Some folks
    sit outside the general store & pontificate; others lean over the
    backyard fence; some only have time to stop & say Hi; and, yes, we have
    one or more mean-spirited cusses who can't say a kind word to save
    their lives. We can't exclude them; we just smile to ourselves, shake
    our heads & shrug, asking as always "What's eating them?" 
   

    at the risk of appearing somewhat predjudice, I have made more use
    of the "NEXT ENTRY" and "NEXT TOPIC" keys in many instances without
    having read an input due not so much to the subject but rather the
    author. Too many times I have started reading a long entry only
    to find it has no content or bearing on the original topic and
    inevitably that entry is written by the same author as one I have
    just passed up in a previous note so... as a result I generally
    look to see who wrote a particular piece and then decide whether
    I will read it or not. I realize this is very unfair but if we
    spent all our time listening to the wind we would never have time
    to sow our seeds and our worth of knowledge would be as baron as
    the desert....
    S_Rat

| Can someone come up with a strategy for dealing with abrasive (and often
|inaccurate) noters? There are a very few noters out there who "answer" a 
|large number of questions (in a large number of work & non-work related

I am indebted to a friend of mine who, having read several of the notes 
which caused me to post this plea in the first place, reminded me of the
Mark Twain(?) quote
	"Never try to teach a pig to sing; it only wastes your time
	 and annoys the pig!"

				Nigel

    I love it.

    You know there are ALOT of arrogant people in general,
    *they* are the ones missing out.

    The problem with most of the arrogance that I encounter 
    is that it is so poorly done

>>    The problem with most of the arrogance that I encounter 
>>    is that it is so poorly done


agreed!

poorly done it is but another rude person...

From .0: ... abrasive (and often inaccurate) ...

From .2: ... slime ... an idiot.
    
From .3: ... people with a problem.

From .8: ... Some people are allways pains ...

From .10: ... a jerk ...

From .12: ... obnoxious ...

From .14: ... very judgemental.


Now, lady and gentlemen, hold your horses. Of all the arrogant notes
and replies I have had the pleasure of reading (and maybe writing)
in my life, I cannot recall one that used the language you
non-arrogant, non-abrasive, non-slime, non judgemental (etc., etc.)
elite have bestowed on the unknown arrogant noter. 

There just has to be a lesson to be learned from all this... I 
wonder what it is  :-).

-- Ron

    My advice is to IGNORE totally the chronically beligerent, and have
    the moderator DELETE offensive, inaccurate, obsolete notes.
    
    Most people, however, are only occasionally arrogant and will respond
    to feedback.  People should realize that they TAKE A RISK when posting
    a note that others will read and critique, and the poster should
    think twice about the message and feelings they evince.       
    
    Your replies (summed up on .21) could avoid replying in kind, but
    rather be kind, in the hope that the individual you would like to
    pillory is able in fact to reform.  
    
    	Rick
    	Merrill
    

    Nigel,
         I agree with you, these files are here to help people,to give
    good advice and to inform.....but when a controversial subject is
    at hand..you are bound to some arrogant notes on the subject....all
    I can say is ignore.