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Conference nyoss1::market_investing

Title:	Market Investing

Moderator:	2155::michaud

Created:	Thu Jan 23 1992
Last Modified:	Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:	Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:	1060
Total number of notes:	10477

697.0. "Recycling worthless stock certificates" by MARVA1::BUCHMAN (UNIX refugee in a VMS world) Thu Mar 10 1994 18:52

    I am inviting suggestions on creative uses for stock certificates in
    companies which have gone under. I have 1200 shares of Spectra
    Pharmaceutical which I bought at 1 (after a previous high near 10), and
    which later became worthless. It would be particularly nice if the use
    could rub one's nose in the fact that speculating in equities is risky!
    
    Some current ideas:
    - Frame them and hang 'em over my desk (obvious).
    - wrap fish.
    - oragami Christmas ornaments;
    - give them to a small child.
    - wrapping for small gifts.
    - wallpaper or shelf paper.
    - line bird cages or litter boxes.
    - model rocket fuselage.

T.R	Title	User	Personal Name	Date	Lines
697.1	Wallpaper for the toilet	ZENDIA::FLEMMING		`Fri Mar 11 1994 06:57`	1

697.2		CPDW::ROSCH		`Fri Mar 11 1994 08:47`	2
	I recall reading about a company in NYC which actually deals in worthless certificates. And that's all I remember... !
697.3	Put not your trust in princes	TLE::JBISHOP		`Fri Mar 11 1994 10:33`	12
	I have a framed display consisting of a 1923 German million- mark bill and an Augustan denarius in silver. It's kind of a reminder not to trust paper money I put together. Maybe you could make such displays (stock certificate and some small item of real value) and sell them to investors (or their relatives) as "reminders"? There's also giving them to a high school as a interesting teaching aid and souvenir for a class learning about stock markets. -John Bishop
697.4		DECWET::COLGATE		`Tue Mar 15 1994 21:35`	1
	And I have an Aluminum 50-Million mark coin.... not very useful.
697.5		MARVA1::BUCHMAN	UNIX refugee in a VMS world	`Wed Mar 16 1994 10:44`	9
	A friend of mine has a German stamp from that era... it's either 10 Billion or 100 billion marks. My dad tells me that German workers used to insist on getting paid at the beginning of the day, so they could hand the money to their wives, who would shop before the storekeepers could mark up their prices at midday. I'd like to get hold of some Yugoslavian currency. Do they have a $1 Trillion bill yet? Of course, it might be illegal to get because of trade sanctions.
697.6		NOTIME::SACKS	Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085	`Thu Mar 17 1994 15:30`	2
	Have you declared the loss on your income tax? I think the company that "buys" your worthless stock (you actually pay them) allows you to establish the loss.
697.7	Do you need to sell worthless stock?	MARVA1::BUCHMAN	UNIX refugee in a VMS world	`Fri Mar 18 1994 16:34`	9
	> I think the company that "buys" your > worthless stock (you actually pay them) allows you to establish > the loss. Do you really need to "sell" the stock to establish a loss? The company has been bankrupt and liquidated for years, so the certificate is worth exactly the paper it is printed on. I would think the IRS could scarcely dispute its lack of worth. If this isn't the case, maybe I'll sell it to my brother for a buck, and he can wrap fish with it :-)
697.8	You have to sell the stock to establish a loss	ZENDIA::FLEMMING		`Fri Mar 18 1994 18:27`	1

697.9		MRKTNG::BROCK	Son of a Beech	`Mon Mar 21 1994 12:07`	2
	You do NOT have to sell to establish a loss. Proof that the stock is value-less is sufficient.
697.10		ERLANG::CHIU	Dah Ming Chiu	`Mon Mar 21 1994 17:15`	4
	RE: -1 Could you explain how to establish a loss for tax purposes? Or point me to a note on this? I am in the unfortunate position of needing to do this.
697.11	You don't have to sell it, but...	HELIX::SPIELMAN	jerry DTN 241-4470	`Mon Mar 21 1994 18:23`	12
	Suggestion: Any broker who agrees with you about the worthlessness can usually send you a letter explaining this which is enough to make the "non-sale" legitimate with the IRS. This applied in a case where there was no active transfer agent who could transfer the certificate ownership. However, I have one question: In the past I vaguely recall a rule that goes something like this: If a security becomes worthless, then you should take the loss in the year that it became worthless. I don't know if there is a formal IRS ruling that requires you to abide by that. For example, perhaps they want you to file an amended tax for the year in which you could (should) have taken the loss.
697.12	Claim it in the year it went worthless	ANOVAX::JWICKERT		`Wed Mar 23 1994 09:26`	7
	You are correct. You MUST take the loss in the year it became worthless. You are not allowed to go back and amend a return to take the loss. So if in doubt, take the loss this year (1993 return) and if it actually went worthless in 1994 you can then amend the 1993 return to remove it, you just can't go back and amend the return to add it. JRW