Conference noted::bicycle

    
    Sounds like the cones have loosened.  When you say the bolts are
    tight, which bolts to you mean?  (Do you have a quick-release or
    are there bolts holding the wheel onto the frame?)  
    
    If it's the cones, then they should be tightened (against their
    locknuts) just tight enough, not so tight that you can feel the
    bearings grinding when you turn the wheel.  To do this you will
    need cone wrenches.  
    
    How long have you been riding on the wheel?  Has this problem
    developed all of a sudden or over time?  Is it a new bike?
    Did anything catastrophic happen to the bike (e.g., bike crashed)?
    
    Hope this helps...
    -john

    
    Or it could be a broken axle!
    
    -john

Thanks, John   

re .1

>    Sounds like the cones have loosened.  When you say the bolts are
>    tight, which bolts to you mean?  (Do you have a quick-release or
>    are there bolts holding the wheel onto the frame?)  

There are bolts holding the wheel onto the frame. It is not a quick release.

>    If it's the cones, then they should be tightened (against their
>    locknuts) just tight enough, not so tight that you can feel the
>    bearings grinding when you turn the wheel.  To do this you will
>    need cone wrenches.  

Where would I find these "cones".

>    How long have you been riding on the wheel?  Has this problem
>    developed all of a sudden or over time?  Is it a new bike?
>    Did anything catastrophic happen to the bike (e.g., bike crashed)?

The bike is 3 years old; the wheel is 1 year old with about 500-600 miles on 
it. No catastrophies so far (knock, knock) with this bike.

re .2
    
>    Or it could be a broken axle!
    
How would I determine whether the axle is broken?


Thanks again,

Jack 

    Take the back wheel off, if you have two pieces of the back axle in
    your hands then you have a broken axle. As far as the cones the wheel
    has bearing that are kept in by metal piece that looks like a cone on
    both sides, these screw onto the axle. You also have at least one
    additional nut on both sides to lock the cone into place, you will also
    have some washers and another nut on both sides to secure the wheel to
    the bike frame. 
    
    Hope that helps
    
    Alan

    
    If it is broken (severed), you will know by doing the following.
    
    1) Remove the wheel from the bike.
    
    2) Remove the quick release skewer (if you have one).
    
    -The axel should come out in your hands.  Half of it from
     each side of the hub.
    
    -Be careful to do this somewhere that you can "catch" the bearings,
     if the fall out.                                   
    
    I have had the same symptoms before without a _broken_ axle.  It was
    only severely bent.  
    
    
    Good Luck,
    
    R�
    
    P.S.-  CONES- the bearings roll, of course, between two surfaces.  the
           surface inside the hub is called the cone.  The surface outside
           the hub is the cup and is the adjustable portion of the
           mechanism.  Note 2286.13  illustrates this very well with a
           bottom bracket assembly.  It's worth taking a looking at.

    
    Jack,
    
    To examine this problem, first take the wheel off the bike.
    
      - Broken Axle: As R� et al. have said, a broken axle will
        become readily apparent.
    
      - Loose cones: You can try pulling the axle from side to
        side (i.e., along the axle's length) and see if there is play.
    
    Ignoring the bolts used for holding the wheel onto the frame,
    what you should see is:
    
        axle-end  lock-nut  washer  cone   hub   <mirror image on other side>
    
    The cone seats the bearings against the race built into the hub.
    So the part of the cone you can see has two slots (for the cone
    wrench) and the part of the cone submerged in the hub rests
    against the bearings.  I don't expect the cones would loosen
    after three years if they didn't loosen in the first two weeks
    of riding, though.
    
    Have a look at this and see what you can see.
    
    -john

Thanks alot for all your help. 

I took the wheel off... the axle was fine, but it did have about 1/16" play 
along the line of the hub. I located the two sides of the cone. 

I took it down to the local bike shop to buy a cone wrench but ended up 
leaving it overnight for someone to look at the next morning. When I picked 
it up the next day, they had tightened the hub for me. 

So I'm back on the road!

Thanks again,

Jack

    The bike is an older (10yr) Specialized Rock Hopper.  It's still a very
    solid frame with fine components.  It is still riden but bottom bracket 
    needs to be adjusted or the bearings replaced.  My problem is in the 
    removal of that BB.  At this point, the bottom bracket is sacrificial. 
    The frame and components are worth keeping.  What I (not so simply) want 
    is to remove and replace it.  After much penetrant soaking, the BB 
    adjustable cup is still "FROZEN".  I have also used a heat gun to heat the 
    frame while tapping the cup lightly and simultaneously trying to turn the 
    cup out, (counter-clockwise).  No luck so far... I could heat the frame 
    more but feel I will only remove the paint.
    
    I want to keep this solid frame.  Any suggestions on how I can remove
    the BB.  Or suggestions to a shop that is qualified and can guarantee 
    safe removal are greatly appreciated.  I work in TAY and live in
    Westford, Ma.  How is Nashbar in Needham?  Franks Spoke-n-wheel
    Framingham..?  Others??
    
    Thanks 
    Frank Ferreira  dtn 227-3888
    

    I just recently had the BB replaced on my mtn bike.  I'd reccomend
    taking it to Marlboro bicycle on rt. 20.  They put in one of the new
    shimano BB's for $4 plus the price of the part.  Mention you work for
    DEC and get %10 off...
    
    	Mike

    Thanks Mike.  I'll look them up in the phone book and give them a call
    also...   Any other suggestions?
    
    frank

    Vise Grips.  Pipe.  Hammer.  Penetrating Oil.  Lots of swearing.
    
    Usually does it for me.
    ;-) KB  

it's an easy lunch time trip from TAY

phone is 256-1528.

-tom

    I spoke with Martin of Chelmsford cyclery last evening.  He wanted in
    the neighborhood of $40-$50 just to remove it.  That seems a little 
    more than I wish to spend for removal.  Would rather put that much
    toward the replacement bottom bracket assy.
    
    keep the suggestions coming...
    
    re: vise grips, pipe wrenches....
    	don't have vice grips that large but a pipe wrench was loosing it's
    	teeth against the hardened adj. cup...    cussing in a mumbled
    	fashion didn't help much and my 6yr old kept asking me to speak
    	more clearly...   ;^)

    
    $40-$50 is ridiculous to remove a stuck adjustable cup. Is the
    adjustable one with the two holes, or one with the shape of a bolt on
    the outside?
    
    Graham.

Having just gone through this with a stem, see note 1644 for a discussion of how
to unstick things. I used the vinegar bath method over a weekend to get the
stem out. It was messy but it worked plus if you use the penetrating oil you 
can make a nice salad dressing when you're done :).

re: Chelmsford Cyclery prices, yeah Martin ain't cheap but he does good work.

-tom 

    re: .14  .15
    
    Thanks Graham... it has 6 holes on the face of the adjustable cup.
    takes a pin spanner type wrench.  The exposed outer diameter of the
    adj.cup is threaded with no flats, hexes or slots.  The lockring came
    off easily...  The chainring/fixed side has 2 flats which I can get a 
    grip on but still can't budge.
    
    Tom, Thank you also, I'll checkout your method in 1644.  Perhaps I'll
    clean off the petroleum based penetrant and work with Mineral/vege oil
    to use as a dressing  ;*)
    
    It's good to know that Martin (Chelms. Cyc) does good work!  Paying for
    quality is always LESS painful.  I will keep him in mind...

    can't budge fixed cup:
    
    If the frame is not Italian, it comes off clockwise MOST LIKELY.
    
    ed

    re: .17
    
    OOOppps!  Well, Ed, The fixed cup is nice-n-tight now.  My common
    NON-sense is working just fine and dandy... I'll retry removing the
    fixed side "clockwise" this time.  Thanks Ed.   Successful or not with
    the fixed side, I will try the other recommendations.
    
    Boiling water, attempt to remove Adj.cup.  If .NE. then  oops there I
    go again...
    
    Boiling water followed by soaking bath of Vinegar.   Step and repeat
    until "I" reach boiling point... ;^)
    
    Thanks for all the quick and helpful suggestions.  Will post results.

 If the cup is the fixed one --- the adjustable one, spindle, and
 bearings have been removed --- then there are tools made by Kingsbury
 and Park for fixed cup removal that allow one to really get force to the
 cup.  It is possible to strip the bottom bracket with a wrench on one
 of these tools if you are turning the wrong way.

    Thank You all for the suggestions.  After the vinegar and hot water,
    I reached my end point.  I brought the whole bike to Nashbar, Needham,
    Ma.  The manager (AL) with the aid of some very serious tools and (2)
    of his mechanics removed a hunk of rusted/scaling BB in about 15
    minutes, while I waited.  It has been replaced with a new "sealed"
    unit.  Total cost.....$40.00
    including remove/replace, Shimano XT BB, running a tap through the rusted 
    frame, cleaning, lub and adjusting everything, reinstalling the cranks and 
    wheels, adjusting the brake.
    
    This was a real pleasant experience.  They were all warm friendly and
    good natured, lots of laughing.  Heck the entertainment was worth the
    $40...  I'll definately be doing more business with them...
    
    Mr. MODERATOR, After all this helpful dialogue I found the appropriate
    note #2500.nnn.  If you have the time/desire, it may benefit the
    readers to move the associated info to that note.
    
    Thanks again
    Frank