Conference noted::bicycle

>> Maybe I'll take up aerobics.

    
      All in wrestling sounds safer than riding in Colorado Springs :*)
    
    Graham.

    
    It isn't just riding in Colorado Springs that is risky, I think the 
    hazards are nation wide. :-) In my daily rides,(NH) there are atleast 
    one or two occassions per day, that if I didn't expect the worse from the 
    motorist, I would have been road pizza. The ones I hate the most are
    cars at stop signs that see you coming and you are on the main road
    with the right of way and they pull infront of you and have the never 
    to give you the finger when you object. 
    The only safe riding here is offroad. 
    
    Shaw
     

RE: <<< Note 2322.2 by SALEM::SHAW >>>

>    give you the finger when you object. 

What manner does your objection take? I just stare at them or shake my head. If
one swears at them, I can imagine that they would be more irritated (and
there's no point in irritating a motorist).
						-- Tom

    
    >what manner does your objection take?
    
    Never rude, at the most I've given 'em a dirty look. I have come to 
    realize that for a red neck trucker, your colorful lycra is offensive
    enough. 
    
    Shaw

    I entered Le Tour de L'Isle de Montreal two weekends ago with my brand
    new bike.  I've never done an organized ride like this, or raced, so
    maybe I was somehow at fault, but picture this:
    
    45,000 cyclists - we were about 1/3 of the way back in the pack. 
    You gotta figure there are about 20 cyclists across and there is NO
    BREAK in the flow.  We're coming down a hill.  Suddenly there are two
    small children and an elderly couple standing in the middle of the road
    trying to cross the street!  
    
    I avoided the children but ended up hitting my partner - we both went
    flying and I had to get stitches, so that was the end for me.  I must
    have ridden all of 30 minutes!  My partner finished the route.  
    
    Does this happen often in rides of this kind?  I NEVER expected people
    to be in my way.
    
    My bike survived with only a few small scratches and a ripped seat.
    
    My head survived because I was wearing a helmet.  I saw another person
    go down and she didn't have a helmet on.  

    
    Does it happen often?  It happens rarely in well-organized professional
    events, but on the open roads there's no telling.  Who was it that was
    put out of action recently (in the Tour de France?) for swerving and
    crashing in order to avoid a small girl?  
    
    -john

    	John,
    
    	Was it Marino Lejaretta (or however you spell it)?
    
    	Seems I remember him trying to avoid a little girl and
    	crashing pretty heavily.
    
    	Scott

    I get a kick out of the motorists that will go by you with inches
    to spare (even though you're as far right as possible and nobody is
    coming the other way).  Then after they pass, they'll see a really
    minor pothole ahead, and swerve into the other lane to avoid it.
    I swear I see this once a week.  -kratz

Re .6:  I think his name is Bruno Lietti. He was a stage winner the day 
before. He was out on a training ride (!) the following morning and, as you 
say, swerved and crashed in trying to avoid a small girl who ran onto the road. 


Rod

    Alpe D'huez stage last year 

A couple of months ago, I was coming down a hill towards my house, about 35kph
or so. Ahead, there was a car, then a cyclist, then another car. 

We drive on the left here, so I swerved left of the first car, swerved right 
around the cyclist, swerved left again to go around the second car, and then 
continued on. 

But when the first of these cars caught up on me a few seconds later, the driver 
was roaring and waving at me out his window about my swerve out in front of him. 

Well, I was in the wrong, but as he had a left hand drive car, I roared back 
something about bloody foreigners, and cast some doubt on his parentage.

We were nearing the bottom of the hill, where I turn right towards my house,
so I pulled ahead again. But when I turned, he followed me. Umm, I wondered.

Then I turned right again into my housing estate. He followed me again. Aha,
I thought. 

So I cruised up to my front door, ready to have an argument and bolt
inside if it turned nasty. Except he drove into the driveway of the house two
doors up and leapt out, still roaring and waving again. 

Yes folks, it was my neighbour!

Patrick

     I did the logical thing and got my pistol permit :-)... I rarely
    carry because of the weight (.45 S&W Mod.745).
    
     Seriously, you can argue that nothing is gained from being expressive
    regardless of the situation (fault)... I personally find myself doing
    a mix of things from the "murmers under the breath while the head sways
    too and fro to checking wind direction with the preverbial middle
    digit.
    
     I guess it really depends on how well I've slept, what I might have
    eaten or how my new Foster cleats are working...
    
     I almost got inot it with a guy a couple years ago - I was off the
    bike talking to someone in the road, but on the side and he gave me
    sh*t! I retorted with something about performing some act of
    contortion, he stopped, I asked him out of the car, he didin't get out
    and drove away mouth 'a goin'...
    
     And I'm really a nice guy underneath all that Ti.
    
        Chip

    I normally swear loudly and profusely in a foreign language.  This
    provides a great release, but you need to be careful of bilingual car
    drivers.  If I restrain myself I normally just shout `that you kind sir
    for your gentleness' loud which is almost as good and unoffensive.....

I should've just let it go, and there have been times when I have just let 
those kind of things pass.  But like Chip said a couple of notes back, 
sometimes your just in a mental state that something like that is going to
set you off.  Boy, and I'm a deacon too.  And the cross I wear was dangling
outside my jersey at the time.  I'm not really proud of it, but little I can
do to change what happened at this point.

-Patrick

    I haven't had too many close calls--I've only been riding for 9 months.
    
    In the 2000 miles I've travelled, I have found that older people (like 
    55+) cut me no slack. 
    
    Younger people (20 and below) seem to be the same way, too.  I had one
    person (who looked to be in late teens, or early 20's) lay on his horn
    when he was right on top of me.  I was maybe 2 1/2 feet from the edge. 
    No cars were comming the other way, and the road was flat and smooth.
                                      
    I'm not a violent person, but there are times when I have had thoughts
    that would put me behind bars...
    
    I guess I try to lay low, for the most part--who knows when you're
    going to say something to somebody who may be a little unstable or who
    would be willing to do something to scare you (and that something he
    miscalculates.....).
    
    
    Kevin.

    re> I was maybe 2 1/2 feet from the edge
    
    Maybe I shouldn't admit to it, but cyclists that do that drive me nuts
    as well.  I believe that when a car approaches from the rear,
    regardless of road or traffic conditions, that the cyclist should
    stay as far right as practically possible.  If you want to wander
    off of the shoulder out into the lane, fine... get a mirror and
    do it when nobody is coming.  When you drive by a lane hogging
    cyclist or cyclists riding two abreast, even though the road appears
    safe, it takes away certain options that the driver could do, say,
    if somebody suddenly pulled out of a driveway going the other way.
    Don't get me wrong... I *DO* believe in sharing the road and believe
    that the cyclist has the same right to be on the road as the motorist.
    .02 kb

    re: .16
    
    In Georgia, if a cyclist rides 1' to the left of the white line on
    the edge, he/she actually has 2' of pavement to the right.  A car
    can still pass with over 2' of clearance with leaving the lane.  We
    call the narrow edge to the right side of the line the "apron" and
    it is not at all suitable or safe riding--you even have to keep
    your eyes open if you walk on it!  It has chunks missing, glass and
    metal all over it in places.
    
    I'm sure you're referring to roads that actually do have a shoulder.
    Most roads in the Atlanta 'burbs do not.  In fact, roads that
    have shoulders usually have a posted speed limit of 50 MPH+ and
    I avoid those.  If you ride too close to the edge you ride over
    debris and whatnot the whole way.  Riding in the 2' or so off the
    edge makes you're more visible and I'm less nervous about drifting
    to the right when I take an extended peek over my left shoulder for 
    traffic when I have that margin.  
    
    On most rides, that's my duty.  I am the caboose hanging onto the back
    that signifies when it is okay for the front of a 15-man pace line
    to angle over for a left hand turn.  The people up front have other
    cyclists screening their view, so it makes sense for the back of the
    pace line to move over first and "block" (sort of) for a left turn.
    In other words, the first guy to yell "car back!" to get people to
    hug the apron. 
    
    r�

    I have to disagree with .16 I'm afraid.  If the road conditions permit I 
    always leave a decent margin between me and the curb (no shoulders here
    just a 4 inch curbstone).  The way I look at it, if I have 2 feet on the
    inside, then when someone comes past with an inch to spare I have
    some space to veer into.   By my positioning I am forcing the driver to
    notice me.  Note however the phrase `If the road conditions permit'.  
    This is a tactic I can only adopt if the cars can get safely past me.
    If there is too much traffic I hug the curb, and promise myself that I
    will never ever ever go along this road again.....
    
    Mostly round here people respect this way of cycling....  Now as a
    driver my bete noire is people who insist on cycling down 70mph dual
    carriageway roads (even worst are the TTers...) especially those with
    perfectly adequate diversions.  I will always give them a huge margin,
    often to the discomfort of other cars, but they are looking for a quick 
    and very, very messy death and there are enough of these already....

    
    
    Re.18  Dual Carriageways
    
    	I drive to work along a 15 mile stretch of dual carriageway at
    06:15 to get to work. It never ceases to amaze me the amount of riders
    on this road. Not commuters, but guys out training with the aero
    bars...  Fife has some absolutely gorgeous roads through woods which
    you can't beat at sunrise, so why do they decide that they've got to
    start the day off with a mouthful of carbon monoxide?
    
    	I would refuse point blank to have anything to do with the RTTC
    because of their irresponsible and selfish attitiude that TTs should be
    allowed to be held on the busiest roads in the country. This more than
    anything else gives cycling a bad name in this country and the sooner
    organising bodies realise it the better for the sport as a whole...
    
    	Cycling above all should be relaxing, away from all the pressures
    of life. How on earth do you do this on trunk roads?
    
    Graham.

>    re> I was maybe 2 1/2 feet from the edge
>    
>    Maybe I shouldn't admit to it, but cyclists that do that drive me nuts
>    as well....

    2.5 feet isn't all that much.  It's about the size of your
    average sewer grate.  There are washed-out spots on my commute
    where that much pavement has fallen off.  There other places where
    riding that close to the edge put leaves in my face.
    It's only about 8 inches wider than my shoulders.

    I agree with you that cyclists should take up no more room
    than they have to, and I especially agree with the part about
    cyclists riding two abreast.

    Additionally there are also places where there just plain
    isn't enough room to pass safely.  Admittedly these are rare, but
    in these cases it's better to make it clear to the driver that they're
    not going to get by in that lane.  Why tempt the driver to try and
    pass when it's unsafe?

    -Jeff Bell

    Hey Everybody,
    I have a couple of experiences here in CO SPGS.  A couple of years ago
    I was riding up Ute Pass, I was up past Casacade (for those of you that
    do not live in CO, it is were the road widens and one has a ~3 foot
    shoulder) I was as far right as I could be when this P*%% just scooted
    over and put me in the ditch.  Another time my brother and I were
    riding down Pikes Peak Ave. when this car behind us started honking and
    yelling at us.  My brother has a big mouth and he told the guy to have
    intercourse with himself.  Well, to our surprise it was an undercover
    policeman.  Well he pulled us over and commenced to act like John Wayne
    (mister tough guy).  He let us go and everybody went about there own
    business.  My brother mentioned to me that here in CO SPGS. when there
    are two or more cyclists on the road, riding two abreast is legal.  I
    doubted this and called my mom's boyfriend (CSPD officer), he confirmed
    this as being right and told us if we wanted to we could file a
    complaint for harrassment(sp) we could, we didn't.
                                              Keep Pedallin'
                                                   Bob
    P.S. There are many other encounters that I have encoutered.  The main
    reason that I gave up road riding.

    
>>    P.S. There are many other encounters that I have encoutered.  The main
>>    reason that I gave up road riding.
    
	Call me bitter and twisted, but that's the last thing I plan on
    doing. To me that's admitting defeat...
    
    Graham.

    Hey Everybody,
    RE:-1
    Not defeated, just addicted to breathing.  I find MTBing to be more
    challenging and relaxing.  You do not have to worry about some SOB in a
    car or truck killing you.  I have found that the only time I go down
    and get hurt on a MTB is because I had my own head inserted in my own
    BUTT and was not paying attention myself.  I do not even miss road
    biking and racing.  MTBing keeps my mind and body well occupied.  But
    hey, to each his/her own.  I have lots of respect and admiration for
    road cyclists.  I always have and always will give the right of
    way to a road biker.  It is 1,000,000 times easier for me to propel my
    butt in a car than it is for a road biker to unclip, stop, stand
    around for a minute while the car gets the he!! out of the way, start
    pedalling AGAIN, get clipped in AGAIN, and get relaxed AGAIN.  So good
    luck and enjoy those skinnny tires.  
                                       Keep Pedallin'
                                            Bob

    
    RE: .19 (Graham)  Why *do* the RTTC put TT's on the dual carriageways?
    Because they offer flat-out stretches?  Because they offer the draft
    of large lorries?  The A-33 out of Reading is a favorite TT course.
    (I'm told a cyclist was killed a while back on it - I've been in cars
    doing 85mph who were being overtaken by others on that stretch.  :-|)
    
    BTW what I found was that the back roads were smoother, dead quiet,
    and about a mile *shorter* than the A-33 dual carriageway.  Strange...
    
    -john

    
    
    Re.24
    
    	Because lorries offer far better slipstreaming than Granny Brown in
    her 1-litre Metro. I started cycling seriously in August '84. I've
    already lost count of the number of riders that have been killed or
    seriously injured in TTs since then. And yet, one man and his bike
    should make TTing the safest form of cycle sport out. Something has got
    to be wrong.
    
    	As an example of the narrow-minded attitude that British cyclists
    hold, I remember my first district meeting as one of my clubs
    representatives. One of the local clubs had applied to have a 25-mile
    TT course on the road that I mentioned in .19. The police turned them
    down saying that the road was too dangerous in that they were having
    problems with the amount of drivers doing over 100mph on that road. One
    of the drivers caught was a local businessman who was caught doing
    130mph in his Ferrari TestaRossa. I always felt that it was made all
    the more ironic that his nationwide double glazing company sponsored
    the team that had applied for the course.
    
    	The officials at that district meeting were all disgusted at the
    police's attitude. The speeding motorists were not their fault, so why
    should they be penalised? I tried explaining to them that, if a
    speeding motorist collided with a competitor in one of our races, the
    1st people they would try and blame for the incident would be the
    police force. They were only trying to protect themselves, quite
    understandably. The Fife Police are the best in Britain, I said. Look
    at the co-operation we get for our road races (Rod W will be able to
    back up this). It's not as if they are trying to force us of the roads,
    they are trying to make the world a safer place for us.
    
    	I just couldn't get common sense and reason into their minds. They
    had all made up their minds that it was their God given right to hold a
    TT on that road. They refused to accept the fact that, as our districts
    organising committee, they had a duty to show a responsible attitude to
    all matters. I left that meeting with the entire comittee regarding me
    as a Judas, and me having lost all faith in the officials of my
    organisation. I never went back to another meeting, I didn't feel that
    I was wanted or that I could do anything constructive from being there.
    Instead, I spent all my efforts taking to the members to try and get
    more weight behind my point of view. I'm glad to say that they listened
    to reason...
    
    Graham.

It's as much the fault of the cyclists as the officials. The TT world is
geared to highest absolute speed (look at the way BBAR is run) so naturally
riders want to take their discs and aero bars to flat dual carriageways.

Personally I love quiet backroads and do not at all miss time-trialling on
busy A-roads. Then again I was never that fast. If I was, I might have a 
different opinion.


Rod

I am one of the people who use the A33 out of Reading both for time trials and
for training.  It is in fact quite safe if you stick to the hard-shoulder part
of the road - a car would have to deliberately swerve into the shoulder to hit
you.  What's more, the road is very straight, so motorists have time to see you.
Some of the country roads around here have blind corners which I feel are more
dangerous than some of the A-roads.

Nigel.

Patrick,

This is what I had in a previous note...

               <<< GOOFOF::NOTES:[NOTES$LIBRARY]BICYCLE.NOTE;1 >>>
                                -<  Bicycling  >-
================================================================================
Note 1704.11           Arguing with drivers - worthwhile?               11 of 43
WAV13::DELORIEA 			             18 lines  15-AUG-1990 17:00
                               -< Proverbs *:* >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Starting a quarrel is like breaching a dam; so drop the matter before a dispute
breaks out.

It is a mans honor to avoid strife, but every fool is quick to quarrel.

A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.
	
A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an
insult.

Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself.

The above are not my words, but are good sayings I remember when in those
situations. Most of the time, these drivers are foolish and do not deserve an
answer or a second look. Forget about them and enjoy your ride. But if YOU are
in the wrong say "Sorry". 

Tom

    
    RE: Nigel - agreed, better visibility on an A-road, your point
    well taken... still a bit nerve-wracking.  :-)
    
    -j

    So, after all these notes about narrow UK motorways and 130mph
    Ferreris (sigh!) I thought I'd get back to the daily experiences
    of bicycle/auto interactions of this year...  A pleasant one, in
    fact!
    
    I have developed a habit of waving on cars from behind when I can
    see that there is no traffic ahead.  Sometimes, we can see farther
    around the curve or over the hill than the car, so it gives them
    the confidence to give me a wider berth :^)  Incidently, I very
    often get a wave of thanks in return and feel like this good will
    thing really could become contageous.
    
    Anyway, I was working up a good hill near my home last week, and
    heard a car approaching, so I gave the signal to pass.  But the
    car didn't go by...  I waved again and kept on climbing, but
    again, the car stayed behind.  Finally, I took a look, thinking
    that I had mis-judged my distance from them...  Two women in a
    Volvo had the sunroof open and with a video cam-corder were taking
    pictures! - of my DeRosa no doubt!   Ah, it's a good thing I am
    happily married; I heard some nasty stories about Thelma and
    Louise!  Needless to say, I got the cooperative "wave of thanks"
    from these women too!
    
    So, see what all you testostorone riddled, type-A, aggressive,
    finger waving, fight picking lycra Hell's Angles are missing!
    I think I'll stick to the sensitive 90's kind of guy approach
    to sharing the roads with my 4-wheeled brethren...
    
    Mud-man Mark
        (who_is_beginning_to_like_the_road_but_isn't_a_road_whinie)

     Hi Tom... How 'bout this one, "No b*lls, no blue chips"...  :-)
    
     Chip

This happened last year but it is so bizare that I feel compelled to tell it.

A friend, Jewell Anderson, and I were riding east of Colorado Springs on highway
24.  24 at that point is four lanes with a grass-like island between the two
directions and has a nice shoulder.  We were on the shoulder and riding single
file when a west bound motorist started honking wildly, yelling at us and 
displaying a single digit fist out of his window.

I was afraid that this gentleman would turn around and come after us but we never
saw him again.  I guess this is a case of guilt by association.



rob youngquist.

RE: .27. I agree with Nigel. I ride TT's on the A33 regularly and other main 
roads. I much prefer them to the back lanes.

Most accidents in TTing are caused through cyclist stupidity. Usually doing U 
turns when warming up before the start and not paying enough attention.

Mike 

    
    Has anyone had a run-in with those new, high-powered water pistols,
    yet?
    
    I was startled by a couple of teen-agers in a passing car a couple of 
    weeks ago.  The water hit the inside of my eyeglasses (from behind) 
    and almost caused a serious incident. 
    
    Last week a couple of kids on the side of the road hit 2 of us on a
    club ride then disappeared before we could re-act.
    
    Jim
    
    

    re .34
    	I haven't run into one of them yet, but was thinking of carrying
    one on the bike for dogs!
    
    larry

    I was in New Jersey this past week-end, and read two unrelated stories
    in the local (New Brunswick) press about people getting hit with bleach
    out of those guns ... I guess that's the new fad in vandalism these
    days.  Those guns have an effective range of 50 feet, and can be
    somewhat other than harmless.
    
    Please be careful, and let's hope it's a passing fad ...
    
    								... Bob
    

    
    
    	We're lucky over this side of the pond. They've been banned well
    before anyone tried to bring them over. Only in America, thankfully...  :*)
                                                                           
    Graham.

Re: .34

I haven't been shot at with a Super Soaker,  but I have had a water balloon
thrown at me.  It missed, but it was close enough that I got wet from the
spray.  Some folks just like to get their jollies that way.  

-Patrick

    	Boston's mayor, Raymond Flynn, has tried to have these water rifles
    	removed from store shelves.
    
    	I don't believe he has had much success.
    
    	Another aside:
    	Has anyone ever attempted memorizing a license plate # and reporting
    	it to the police? It is difficult to see a license plate whilst
    	dishing through gravel, admittedly...

    Hey Everybody.,
    RE -1:
    Yes I have been able to get to license plate #'s and reported them to
    the police.  The first time the guy got a ticket for wreckless driving,
    and something else I forget what though.  The second time I follwed the 
    punk kids home and started challenging them (I have a temper).  I went
    home and called the police.  When the officer arrived at my house I
    told him that I blew up at them and he said all he could do because of
    that was give them a scare.  Oh well.
                                         Keep Pedallin'
                                              Bob

  Re: Reporting number plates to Police (Sorry US, licence plates :*)

	5 years ago or so, I was out on the winter chaingang run through the
  north of Fife. Now, this wasn't just any old Sunday run, this was Remembrance
  Sunday. Now, I know we should've all been in church, but the hills called
  and so we started out our clubrun at 10:00 as usual.

	Just a little before 11:00, we were riding through Newburgh when we
  were stopped by the Police. The War Memorial in Newburgh is right beside the
  main road through, so they were stopping all the traffic for the 2 minute
  silence. We were the first ones stopped with 4 or 5 minutes to go. Now, we
  may be a bunch of heathens, but not even we were going to complain about this
  mark of respect, and besides it was a nice opportunity to eat something from
  our back pockets. Suprisingly for a Sunday morning (to most Scots, Sunday
  mornings start at around about 14:00, probably not entirely unrelated to the
  fact that a Saturday night finishes at 04:00 :*), the road was quite busy
  and there was quite a tailback starting to develop.

	After the 2 minute silence, there was the prayer and as soon as that
  was over the police gave us the nod and we were away again. Now, by the time
  the cars behind us had started their engines, we were already positioned
  two-abreast. There was a slight wind coming from the left, so the front rider
  was the furthest out (remember, this is the civilised world, we drive on the
  left :*). Not echeloning across the road, we were riding very tight and the
  outside rider was no more than 6 feet out. The road out of Newburgh isn't
  especially narrow and traffic could still pass unhindered. Indeed, 6 or 7
  cars did. Then came Frankenstein's monster driving his clapped out Vauxhall
  Cavalier...

	If cars could have scars then this would've looked like a boxer that
  had gone 12 rounds with Mike Tyson. All I could hear was a 'Hey!' from behind
  and thought 'Oh! Oh! We've got a clown trying to see if he can overtake with
  a wafer thin mint sized gap between us.' I was 2nd in line and got the shock
  of my life when I found out just how close. His wing mirror actually hit
  the end of the bars of the front rider. How he kept control of his bike, I
  still don't. All I know is how glad I am that he did. If he went down, I was
  going down...  Smell it? I was sitting in it...

	We were a little upset by these actions and decided to take the wing
  mirror and number plate (sorry, licence plate) to the police who had stopped
  us in Newburgh.

	POLICE: What do you want us to do about it?
	US    : Booking him would be nice. (we actually wanted to say kick
		c**p out of him like you did to all those drunks last night,
		but common sense won).
	POLICE: There's nothing we can do about it.

	We never did find out why, because just then this Cavalier turned
  round the corner. He admitted that he had been a little over-eager in getting
  past us, and we were allowed to go on our way while he was giving a good
  thrashing...

	Morale of the story? Police are human(ish) like the rest of us. They
  want an easy life. Unless there has been some damage done to either people
  or property, all they'll do is shrug their shoulders.

  A sad story but true...

  Graham.

     Sad to hear the same attitudes exist on your side of the pond... Maybe
    we should start a "global" INDIFFERENT POLICE RUN-IN Note???
    
      Chip

>    the police.  The first time the guy got a ticket for wreckless driving,

You can get a ticket for wreckless driving? I better watch out, haven't had
an accident in 23 yrs! :-)
                                   ken

    
    
    Re:42
    
    Chip,
    
    	Yeah, but we don't get shot at for wasting police time...  :*)
    
    Graham.

I had an incident just late last week here in Marlboro, MA. on Donald Lynch
Blvd.  Those familiar with that stretch of road know how wide it is.  It's
the road used by the MRC for their weekly sprint workouts.

I was on a lunchtime ride ~noon-ish, traveling east on DLB, doing some 
sprints on the aero bars, concentrating, blah, blah.  All of a sudden, 
the dreaded "Whoosh" sound past my ear, with the subsequent sound of breaking 
glass on the side of the road.  It was a large soda bottle, or some such 
thing.

BTW, I was close to the side of the road, ~2 ft from the curb.

Three young (20-ish) guys in a pick-up having their yucks; not to stereotype, 
but they *were* wearing "John Deere" type caps.

Anyway, I flipped them off, while attempting, unsuccessfully, to read the 
license plate, and gave chase.  I might as well have been chasing the MRC Cat 
IIs on sprint night.  I continued on the road, hoping to find them parked in
a driveway, or at a store or something, all the while deciding how I
would torture and beat each one while the other two fearfully watched.  After
this, I would then do in the pickup truck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As you can guess, I never *did* locate them.  Lucky for them *and* me, I 
guess.  I ended up having a GREAT ride, burning off a ton of calories, and
was calmed down by the end of the ride.  

I thought about stopping off at the Marlboro police dep't after work, but
didn't.  Somehow, 6 hrs after the incident, I didn't feel like going through 
any inconvenience of driving out of my way, hanging around, filing a report,
etc.  That *was* dumb on my part.

In case you're in the general area anytime soon, it was a light grey/blue 
pickup truck, Ranger-type, the small version, fairly recent model, with some
kind of pin striping on it.

rb  

    	Kind of makes a person wish that "Spike" in the spike bike series
    	was real.
    
    	"After the explosion, the truck spun around on its roof, coming to
    	a stop, with three pairs of mutilated arms protruding from what
    	was left of the windows. I proceeded down the Boulevard, slowing
    	momentarily to wave goodbye to their carcasses..."
    
    	Good thing cyclists don't carry firearms, there WOULD be trouble.
    
    	Where's the Swiss Army when you need 'em?

    
> Three young (20-ish) guys in a pick-up having their yucks; not to stereotype, 
> but they *were* wearing "John Deere" type caps.
    
    I've had a couple of experiences over here where yokels in the back of
    a pick-up have shouted a highly amusing remark or two as they roared
    past (too close). In this situation, I don't think there's anything you
    can do other than grit your teeth and bear it. The potential
    satisfaction to be gained by responding is always outweighed (for me,
    anyway) by the chance of getting your head kicked in.
    
    Trevor

    I work in the Salem, NIO, plant.  In the warmer weather I commute a
    fair amount from Hampstead, NH, about ten miles, on my old Motobecane.
    Yesterday there was a rather severe hit-and-run on Rt. 111 involving a
    bicyclist.  I wonder if anyone here would know anything about the
    incident?
    
    Rt. 111 is a dangerous road to commute on in any vehicle, and with the
    high-speed traffic etc. I tend to keep a real close watch on my mirror. 
    The previous day I had a group of teenagers in a imported sedan
    see how close they could come to me and then yell as they pass, it was
    much closer than most and I can't help but think it was probably the
    same bunch yesterday.  I only wish I had taken the registration number.
    
    I've been riding for over 35 years now and somehow I still can't
    understand what the thrill is for these idiots?  Oh well, keep your eyes
    open and keep riding.
    
    Dennis
    

    	One point pertaining to license plates...
    
    	The data collected on drivers by the Registry or Department of
    	Motor Vehicles (depending on what state you're registered in),
    	is called, "public information". Meaning, all anyone needs for
    	gathering data on *you*, is your license plate number.
    	
    	With this plate #, and a $5.00 fee (Massachussetts), I can obtain
    	your date of birth, registered address, license # (this is usually
    	your social security #), the "type" of license you are carrying,
    	and the year, make and model of the motorized vehicle you drive.
    
    	This alone is scary when you think about it, that's why I requested
    	a replacement for my license number, so my social security number
    	is not "public information".
    
    	It's not recommended policy to take revenge on another human being,
    	as we all need to promote peace and good will towards our fellow
    	man. But if someone tries to PURPOSELY run me off the road, you
    	can believe me when I say that I'm going to try my hardest to get
    	their tag number. It would be worth the $5.00 fee to obtain all of
    	this personal information, considering a personal attack has been
    	attempted on my life.
    
    	What a person does with this "public information", is up to them.
    
    							Face

    Well, I finally had a run-in with a motorist...  Last night,  two of us
    were traveling single-file on the right edge (there was no shoulder) of
    a sideroad when a pickup truck came up from behind.  He started blowing
    his horn at LEAST a block before he got to us and continued as he
    passed.  As he passed VERY closely - no more than 8 inches clearance
    between the truck and our  handlebars (based on how closely he passed
    the bike in front of me) he was shouting and gesturing incoherently
    about something...  The rider I was with was unnerved (as was I) by
    this and yelled in fright (as did I along with a raised fist - not a
    universal digit).  The truck then pulled up and stopped in front of us. 
    We rode up - by now I WANTED to get close enough to read the license
    number.  As we approached he pulled back out into the road forcing the
    other rider (in front of me) out into the middle of the street.  Then
    as I came up he braked and swerved, forcing me into the oncoming
    traffic lane - all the while leaning out the window and continuing to
    shout incoherently about how we belonged on some nearby bike path...  
    
    In retrospect it sounds insane but here I am alongside a screaming guy
    in a truck, in the oncoming lane, with nowhere to go so I brake - so
    does he - and I'M STUPIDLY TRYING TO EXPLAIN TO THIS MORON HOW WE'RE
    VEHICLES AND SHOULD BE RIDING ON THE ROAD JUST LIKE WE WERE...  By now
    I was upset enough that I stopped in the road so we could continue the
    discussion...  Once I got stopped, however, he accelerated away and
    down a side street.
    
    Once done with the ride I called the local police and gave them the
    description and license number.  The officer I spoke to was going to
    verify my information, and if correct as to description, he will be
    contacting the driver.  I suggested that given the conduct of the
    driver perhaps he was laboring under the influence of some abnormal
    substance...  I was glad there was another rider there to corroborate
    my story, and I hope the conversation between cop and driver has a
    positive effect - but I don't have a lot of confidence.  Idiots like
    this one don't strike me as people that respond well to gentle
    suggestion...  Oh, well, I see A WHOLE lot more nice people in cars
    than bad ones.

    	I am on your side, y'all were not the problem, it was the driver.
    
    	But, you should not have passed the vehicle after he stopped in
    	front of you. His next move was to step on the gas pedal, yes?
    
    	Where the heck is Spike Bike ?!?!?!?!?!?!?

>    	But, you should not have passed the vehicle after he stopped in
>    	front of you. His next move was to step on the gas pedal, yes?
    
    Yeah,  things got a little confused along  about there...  We actually
    approached the truck quite slowly - certainly not more than 10 mph. 
    Btw: this was one of those toy pickups, an S-10, not your standard
    10-ft-tall redneck-mobile.  We could see there was no gunrack in the
    window!   Since  he had  pulled  over abruptly after passing the front
    bike he was only 20-30 feet in front of  us so even at 10 mph we're 
    only talking 2-3 seconds.  Since he was just sitting on the side of the
    road I also think Kathy (on the other bike) may have wanted to speak to
    the driver - and I SURE wasn't going to let her go up there alone even
    if it wasn't the brightest thing to do.  Even while things were rather
    frantic out in the street I SWEAR she was trying to explain Minnesota
    State law to this guy -  at VERY high volume, but still TRYING to quote
    the statutes.  If it hadn't been so unnerving it would have been
    hilarious!

    
    There was very nearly mass carnage on the Reading club run yesterday
    morning. There was a group of about 10 riders, mostly two abreast,
    rounding a blind corner in a fairly narrow lane. A MK II Ford Granada
    (an old, wide car, for non-UK readers) suddenly appeared coming down
    the road much too fast, skidded while taking the bend, and swung right
    out into the middle of the road. A couple of the riders had to swerve
    violently to avoid being hit - one fell off but wasn't hurt. The
    motorist just drove straight off, responding to the various insults
    hurled at him with a V-sign.
    
    If he'd been a foot or so wider round the corner, he'd have directly
    hit at least four people. I was able to observe the episode from the
    comparative safety of the second group that had been dropped on the
    previous climb !
    
    Trevor

    
    
    A couple of Saturdays ago, I was on a ride by myself.  I was going
    into a head wind, so I got down on the aerobars and tucked my head
    down for a few moments.  I looked up when I heard car tires sliding
    accross the road in front of me.  It was a perfectly straight road,
    but this fellow managed to swerve the tail end of his Ford accross
    the lane and missed me by about ten to twelve feet.  
    
    He then lost control of his car and "took out" a house for sale 
    sign about fifty feet from the road.  The car came to rest in
    front of a small tree.  I circled to make sure that he was okay,
    but he ignored me and drove away.  I got the tag and reported it.
    
    I'm not completely sure whether it was intentional or if he had
    a mental lapse while driving and overcorrected when he saw that
    he was going right towards me.  No harm done...
    
    r�

    	Mr. Crane,
    
    	   My apologies for displaying personal information regarding your
    	yourself. But this memo sent to my friend Mr. Sidel was so amazing,
    	I simply had to enter it here as a reply. I only wish I knew where
    	this guy Somerville was talking about when he says, "here".
    
    								- Face
    
    
From:	NQOPS::MUHTHR::"[email protected]" "John F. Crane" 26-AUG-1992 23:45:53.81
To:	[email protected], [email protected],
	[email protected], [email protected],
	[email protected], [email protected],
	[email protected], [email protected],
	[email protected], [email protected]
CC:	
Subj:	Do you belive this


------- Forwarded Message

  I pulled this from the USENET.
  What happened to this guy would be enough to make me
  hang up my bike!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't know what's going on, but the level of violence
towards cyclists is increasing here.  I knew it for certain
two weeks ago when shots were fired from a pickup containing
six youths as it approached me.  As the truck passed, the front
passenger leaned out and yelled, "Die motherfucker!"  This was a 
first for me!

Last week there was the case of another truck that seemed to take
an interest in me, passing me a total of four times in less than
two miles.  Two times, the front passenger leaned out attempting
to punch me (off my bike I suppose).  I do the same thing Jobst
mentioned -- wait till you hear them just behind and swerve away!

This week started at about 6:00 a.m. with a truck making a left turn
directly in front of me.  I *very* narrowly escaped being hit.  Now I
know bike lights can be hard to see and all, so I usually like to
stop and tell these people what just happened so that maybe they can
keep a look out next time.  If I had just nearly hit a cyclist while
driving, I would feel two things: *relief* that I did NOT actually
hit him/her, and *remorse* at nearly having done so.  That's why
I was shocked when this driver began yelling nonsense at me, first
saying that I didn't have no lights.  After I showed him my lights,
he went on, ending with "You aint sposed to be passen no damned car
anyway!"  I always have the same problem in these cases -- I am so
dumbfounded by what they say that I can only come up with a 
flabergasted "WHAT!!??!"

Finally, this morning, I was riding at the right edge of the left lane of
a four lane rode approaching a stop light.  Why do I ride in the left
lane here?  Because the right lane is a *right turn only* lane.
So here comes a car behind me, blowing his horn like crazy.  He passes
me very close *on the left*, and immediately cuts across to the *right*
hand lane.  Sound familiar?  I had an opportunity to catch him, at which
point he yelled a bunch a crap and tried to reach out and hit me with
his newspaper.  His final argument:  I was riding *on* the white line.
It is not true and hardly makes any difference, since there was ample
room to pass me from the right lane.  God, please help me.

I am having some serious mental problems from this kind of continuous
harassment.  I mean, I feel like I just hate *everyone* who drives a 
car.  All I can think about is waiting at the corner tomorrow morning with
a bazooka to *blow this guy away*  I need some help.  (My voice is
even hoarse from yelling at this car driving away)

Thanks for letting me vent this.  It helps to know I'm not the only one
that gets this crap -- I just don't seem to take it too good.

Back to your regular programming...

- - --
Garth Somerville
[email protected]



- ------- End of Unsent Draft

------- End of Forwarded Message

    
    	As me why I prefer to ride strictly off-road. The bike I use on
    pavement has 900cc and it's hard enough to survive on that.
    There are people out there who are not nice and are looking to hurt
    somebody for a laugh.
    
    	Roger

    re: .55
    
    >> I only wish I knew where
    >> this guy Somerville was talking about when he says, "here".
    
    His address suggests, maybe, North Carolina State University??

    And that's why I have a permit to carry. Just the handle sticking out
    seems to help. 
    
    PaulM 

    I had a bit of a run-in with a two wheeled motorist yesterday. 
    Standard hook-turn; the motorcycle passed me on the left, then made a
    right turn.  I thought that those guys understood, but I guess not.
    
    Rich

    
    
      My wife almost wiped one of my friends last night while driving
    to a biker party.  I just sat helplessly in the car while watching
    as she took a left and cut him off.  I would've said something to
    her but I value my sex life to highly ;-)
    
    
      John C.
    

Happened again.  This time a rusty old van.  I had to lock up to avoid him (I
hate when I have to do that!).  This time, though, I just pursed my lips
and shook my head.  Much better.  I was able to continue the ride without my
blood pressure being in the "blow a gasket" range.

-Patrick

    	Ed Kross and crew (minus two) gathered at Pedal Power to
    	look at all the slide from RAAM '92. Jay Carrington limped in.
    	I asked him what happened. He said some woman made a
    	left turn in front of him. He hit the right rear
    	and flew over the trunk. He eventually landed on
    	his head. His helmet slid down and broke his nose. His
    	right leg was hurt but not broken. He said he was
    	doing about 22/23 MPH before she cut him off.
    
    	Scott

    April 1994 was the last time I used my road bike.  I was descending a
    long hill and approaching a grocery store when about 100 meters ahead,
    a long truck s-l-o-w-l-y pulled out from the right and blocked both 
    lanes as well as the center turn lane. All I could do was brake hard
    and curse.  The next day I went shopping for a mountain bike and since
    then, avoid roads as much as possible.  
    
    After 20+ years of battling vehicles on my bike (commuting to high school, 
    college, work), the trails are the place for me.  The asphalt jungle
    is not.  Fortunately, Colorado Springs has plenty of trails.