Conference noted::bicycle

    The "high performance at low cost" motif of the Trek 1200 lends itself
    very well to Shimano 105 pedals, at about $90.  That's what I upgraded
    my (otherwise 105 equipped anyhow) 1988 Trek 1200 to.  Colorado Cyclist
    USED to have the lowest prices on the pedals.  They have an "idiots"
    mode for quick release which is nice for new clipless converts.
    They're not the lightest or lowest cornering angle in the world,
    but they're a good representative component of the 105 line.  .02kb

    
    I don't have a Trek catalog handy, but I presume that your bike has
    Shimano components on it. If that's the case, why not buy some Shimano
    clipless pedals? I have a Trek 1400 with the 105 clipless pedals and 
    I'm very happy with them and the bike. BTW, you should be able to get
    some decent pedals for $100 or less...especially LOOKs, which seem to
    be on sale almost all the time. Also, you may have to buy some new
    shoes, if you're not already using cycling shoes.
    
    Pete
    

	see notes 1168.* and 1455.* for extensive dicussions of clipless
	pedals

	-tom

    
    Just got a TrekFest (sp) flier in the mail yesterday.  Listed in there
    was a LOOK PP156 (I think)/New Balance shoe combo for $100 at
    participating shops.  The participating shop nearest me is Bicycle
    Alley in Worcester.   Anyone else see this?  
    
    rob  

    
    
    I got the TrekFest Flier in Atlanta as well.  Cycleworks Bike
    Shop is the Trek Dealer here and the same item was listed, as
    you stated.  It seems any Trek dealer will participate (?).
    
    r�

    In the last few weeks I have notice a number of people with 105
    and Ultregra type of equipment going with the Shimano SPD system.
    The walking ability is the big plus.  No hearing of initial problems
    from these road users.
    
    Steve
    (committed to Time boat anchors)

    The SPD pedals are great for touring.  Unfortunately, the selection of
    shoes is not very good right now, but it is improving.
    
    Ken
    

    Another question:
    
    
    Given:  When I got my Shimano pedals, about six years ago, they were
    	    made by LOOK.  The same pedal is now marketed by Shimano as
    	    the Dura Ace pedal.  I don't know if LOOK still makes it...
    
    Question: If LOOK does still make Shimano's pedals, are the internal
    	      workings of the pedals interchangeable (LOOK/Shimano) in
    	      some models?  If that is the case, it would seem that one
              could make a more informed decision that is based on price.
    
    		r�	

    My understanding is that LOOK continues to make parts of the Shimano
    pedals.  It would be interesting but problematic to figure out which
    innards could fit with which bodies.  Certainly the Dura-Ace models
    have actual Dura-Ace spindle, bearings, etc. - same for the Ultegra.
    
    It's "charming" to see "Made in France" on a Japanese product (Shimano) 
    after seeing "Fabriqu� au Japon" on Descente garments (French). :-) 
    
    The pedal body has been one reason for me at least to go with Shimano
    over LOOK - much nicer appearance (looks like art rather than ski-gear)
    and better lean-angle (not that my riding exploits it much!) than
    the LOOK models.  Confusingly, the LOOK Carbo-Pro has/had a Shimano
    style pedal body.
    
    Note: If you are considering non-SPD pedals, the new Ultegra model
    claims to have centering rotational freedom (optionally selectable by a
    dial).  This is not to be confused with the rotational freedom provided
    by the red ARC cleats.
    
    -john

    I had a disconcerting incident with my Carbon Pros last week.  There
    I was jamming up a hill, looking cool on my 5500 when, all of a sudden,
    my right foot was pedaling air.  No, I had not come out of my pedal
    and no I was not standing up [:-(].  The pedal had come unscrewed from
    its axle.  That is, the pedal axle was still threaded into the crank and
    the pedal was still attached to my cleat.
    
    After saying, "What a predicament!"  I sat down and threaded the axle
    back into the pedal.  It seems the bearing is between the axle and
    those threads.  I then wrenched it tight.  I also added a 1/4 turn
    to tighten the left pedal.
    
    I have never had this happen to any of my other LOOKs or LOOK-alikes,
    and I do have several different models.  Unlike many models the Carbon
    Pros only have the one set of threads.
    
    ed

    
    Does that mean that the axle threads are not set opposite to the
    direction of pedalling motion?  Sounds like an unfortunate design.
    
    PS: Glad you weren't in a more precarious position!
    
    -john

    Re:  spuds for the road
    
    When I was looking into better shoes and pedals seven or eight months
    ago, I tried both Shimano's SPD and Time's TWT products.  Neat idea,
    but my main complaint about both is that the insoles of all the shoes I
    tried for both systems seem too flat.  This is probably a compromise
    made to accomodate a natural walking motion.  However, I seem to want
    bend my toes up some while pedalling, as the soles of conventional cycling
    shoes do.  This could be either a more natural foot position, or just a
    habit born from days spent pedalling in conventional shoes.  In either
    case, I passed on the walkable shoes and went with a pair of Time
    Criteriums which I found on sale at the time.  (Of course, I've since
    dumped my Time pedals, but the shoes are fine--well, except for not being
    manufactured in large half-sizes).
    
    I've heard some convincing testimonials to these systems, though.  One
    of the editors of "Bicycling" switched to spuds while training for a
    season of randonee riding last year and used them for Paris-Brest-Paris.
    
                                                               -- Mike

    Some of the new SPD shoes are curved, like road shoes.  These are made
    by both Shimano and by Italian companies (Duegi, Diadora).
    
    Ken
    

    re: "direction of threads on Carbon Pro's"
    
    The pedals thread on with normal right hand threads.  I think
    this means that, on the right pedal, it is possible for normal
    friction to unthread the pedal, much like a fixed cup on an Italian
    bottom bracket.
    
    ed

     If this is the case, they made a mistake (or you did). Both of mine
    are threaded correctly (oppositely)... I bought the first set the
    first year they were introduced and the second set 1 1/2 years
    later...
    
      You may want to check them again. If they are threaded wrong, you
    certainly have a good case for another set from LOOK.
    
       Chip

    re: <<< Note 2293.1 by YNGSTR::BROWN >>>

>    USED to have the lowest prices on the pedals.  They have an "idiots"
>    mode for quick release which is nice for new clipless converts.
    
    IDIOTS MODE?  As one of those not-so-new clipless converts I'm highly
    insulted!  :^)  I'm telling mom when I get home! If I recall correctly
    from other notes, the average number of times a new clipless user falls
    over from forgetting to unclip from the pedals is between 3 and 6.  
    
    With the "idiots" mode I've NEVER fallen over while stuck to the pedals
    since when I panic I can release upward...  I look less like an idiot
    when upright than when laying on my side in traffic at a traffic light
    while still having my feet stuck in my pedals.

    Well it happened to me on saturday - only damage a grazed knee and a
    badly bent pride.  But even if I had an upward quick release I wouldn't
    enable it - I wouldn't be able to persuade myself that it wouldn't
    release in normal use.  
    
    Do these beasts have a way of `knowing' a panic release from a very hard 
    pull when accelerating hard (ie from the angle of the force or
    something) ?

    I use the word "idiots" only with the highest regard towards the
    product!!!  Any product that has revolutionized the status quo into
    something so incredibly easy to use that anybody can pick it up and
    use it sucessfully, I call an "idiots" version.
    
    As well as owning the 105 pedals, I also own what I call an "idiots"
    camera (a point and shoot Nikon OneTouch that has produced more great
    photos than my bigbucks 35mm).  Now if I can only figure out how to
    get that VCR from flashing "12:00"...  ;-) -kb
     

    >>  				I also own what I call an "idiots"
    >> camera (a point and shoot Nikon OneTouch that has produced more great
    >> photos than my bigbucks 35mm).
    
    Better known as a PHD (Press Here Dummy) camera ... ;^)
    
    ... Bob
    

Re Rod_W:  I've had a pair of the 105 clipless since 1990 and had the upward
release mode enabled until late last year. It works by having a second backward
pivoted section on the top of the main pivoted section. This allows for the
extra backwards movement needed to allow the cleat to exit upwards. You can
lock this section out so the pedal behaves like a normal Look pedal.

And it works. I never released accidentally, but on two or three occasions I
exited in panic mode. Until you've done this, I don't think you realise just
how hard the convulsive jerk of a panic release is - that's what does the
trick!

Having said that, I have the upward release locked out now, due perhaps to
residual worries like your own, and also reckoning that I'm experienced enough
not to need this function anymore. Having said *that*, I dread what will happen
on my next ride...


Roddy

    re .18:
    
>    I use the word "idiots" only with the highest regard towards the
>    product!!!  
    
    Well, ok. 
    
    
    I've also never had the pedals release accidentally, but I'm not
    pulling up hard going up hills.  The release tension is adjustable and
    I set mine so it takes a very hard jerk to get out of them.  I like
    them because my feet don't go to sleep.
    
    Does anyone know if any of the systems walking shoes (Time TWT or
    Shimano SPD or other) have floating attachments and multiple release
    modes?  I would love to have shoes I could walk in but I'm not willing
    to give up the rotational movement or the ability to get out of the
    pedal when I do something brain-dead.

	Reading the release notes for my spd pedals there are two different
	cleats. one which releases only with a sideway motion to the outside
	of the pedal and one which will release in any direction. I can get
	the part number for both if you are interested

	Kev.

    I looked at and tried on the new Shimano A-100 SPD shoe.  It really
    looks and feels nice.  Looks like a road shoe and not a lug sole. 
    Costs about $85.  I have not seen it in the catalogs yet.  I have SIDI
    revolutions and really like them.  What I want and think is going to be
    available the day after I buy the A-100 is a reasonable ($90-120) road 
    shoe that can be used on both SPD and Look systems (I have seen a couple 
    of ads for $200 lug sole shoes that offer that option and I think SIDI
    is one of them).  Anyway is anyone aware of a reasonable, good looking
    and comfortable (comfort=wide) shoe that is both SPD and LOOK
    compatible?
    
    Mike

     I'm looking for information/help with two questions:
    
     1) I just installed my Foster (alloy) cleats and have experienced
        exactly what the directions stated; "You may find that the release
        is very tight. Take a wire brush (on a drill) or coarse sandpaper
        and take down some of the cleat".
    
        The real question is does anyone have these? I did do what they
        and it is getting easier, but not what it should be (ran out of
        patience yesterday after a hard ride). I can get out by twisting
        inward, but outward's a b*tch! I will sand more tonight.
    
     2) LOOK Carbon Pros: I've had this bothersome noise whenever I've been
        really hammering or climbing hard. Yesterday, during a ride, I had
        a very good mechanic listen to my bike. He said it sounded like it
        was coming from my right pedal (my 1 season old pedal!). He also
        said that he's seen quite a few go bad this year. This pisses me
        off a little bit. My other Carbon Pros (on the TT machine) are
        3 seasons old with no problems.
    
        Anyone else run into this? I'm toying with rebuilding, but then
        I think about Bryne which means another pair of shoes which means
        I have to spend (a) lot...
    
        Any help or information/recommendations are greatly appreciated.
    
         Chip

Chip,

I was going to ask you how you liked those cleats. I'm having a problem 
with noise coming from my DURA-ACE clipless pedals. They are creaking from the 
cleat rubbing the surface of the pedal. It's really pissing me off, along with
everyone else that rides with me. I think it has to do with the front of the 
cleat wearing down so the fit isn't as tight as it once was. I tried WD-40 on
my cleats and the surface of the pedal and even greasing the area. It only
made the matter worse.

I'll try cleaning all the dust and dirt from the area and see how that helps.


It's kind of funny but my cheap LOOK's didn't have this problem. I know 
one other person the had this problem with noisy Dura-Ace clipless pedals and he 
thought it was due to the shoes he had.

Does anyone else have problems with creaking clipless pedals?

Tom

    
    Chip,
    
    
    It happens on mine, but I think it is just worn cleats.  I can feel
    the bolt scraping the surface when I "twist-out" of mine.  They're
    also D/A's.
    
    R�

      It's pissing me off too! I just ran out and bought a can of silicon
     lubricant (good stuff for not attracting dirt/waterproof...) even
     though they recommend a graphite lube.
    
      I think I'm dealing with a worst case scenario here... I think  the
     right pedal is blown. I put the new cleats on yesterday. Took it for a
     very small ride and still got the noise... It's more like ball
    bearings grinding than a real creaking noise. I'm going to see if I
    still have the receipt for these things - One year at a $150.00 a 
    year is not tickling my funny bone...
    
     Chip

Same problem here, LOOK P66 pedals.  I just replaced the cleats and it
somewhat better.  It doesn't do it all the time now...

    
    
    Don't feel bad.  One of our little group had his BRAND NEW Carbon Pros
    disassemble on our ride last wednesday!!!  The pedal just screwed
    itself off the axle.  First thing I did when I got home was retighten
    all my Look pedal bearings.  I don't relish impaling myself on a pedal
    axle.  Thankfully my friend didn't.  Lousey design...they should use
    left hand threading on the right side.
    
    -Steve

    
    I've had creaking cleats from time to time - I think only on the
    Dura-Ace, not the Ultegra.  It is annoying and embarassing; haven't
    found any cure but time.
    
    -john

     Did your creaking start soon after installation? As stated, I'm
    convinced the right pedal is blown. I have another pair on the TT
    bike. I'm going to move them to the MERLIN just to make sure it
    isn't anyhting else.
    
     I went the whole season with even the smallest squeak. The pedals on
    my TT bike are 3 seasons old. They completely noiseless (and I rarely
    lubricate cleats).
    
     Anyone know anything about the LOOK PP176 pedal (weighty 438g @$170.00
     vs the PP156 426g @$99.95).
    
     Chip

    	John,
    
    	Why were you embarrassed? 'Fraid someone might think it's
    	one of your knees? 8-)>
    
    	My left pedal creaks, also, but they're no clipless.
    
    	Scott

    Chip, It couldn't be some strange electro-chemical effect from the
    priximity of all that Titanium could it?

Chip,

If you go for the Brynes, why would you need a new pair of shoes?  Because your 
other bike would have different pedals?  Solution:  Do like I did.  I bought 2 
pairs of Brynes - one for the Merlin, one for the tandem.

Hey Chip, you know you have to do it.  My bike is probably lighter than yours
due to the pedals...  plus they are GREAT.  

I finally have my Merlin with all the components that I want.  Right now, I 
wouldn't change a thing and I'm a happy camper!!

Eric

     Hello again, Eric... Yup, I have LOOKS on my TT bike... And I have
    TIME on my foul weather bike... All I need is a third pedal system.
    
     I am bumming a little. I feel like mailing the pedal back to LOOK 
    and telling them how "happy" I was with the (1) season they gave me.
    
     I'm not sure I want to blow $300.00 on pedals or $150.00 (pedals) +
    $100.00 (good shoes) = $250.00 -- Yup I can tell the best route to
    take mathematically... Then again, it's be even cheaper to go with
    another LOOK model.
    
       Chip

    
    RE: cheaper to go with another LOOK model.
    
    Of course I will reassert that in a choice between LOOK and Shimano
    road clipless pedals, I'll go with the Shimano.  The latest Performance
    catalogue mentions that the Ultegra model is new for this year -
    something about adjustable degrees of freedom or something.  That might
    be good value for money.
    
    -john

     John, I'm surprised at you... The mere mention of Japanese componentry
    sent a shiver down my spine :-)...
    
     An update on the cleats (Foster's)... I just spoke with the guy. He
    said that only a couple of calls have come in regarding release com-
    plaints and nothing about only releasing inward and not outward...
    
     That figures!
    
     He did give me a couple ideas... He said if those don't work just send
    them back and he'll "work" a pair for me and send them free of charge.
    I'll update as events occur.
    
        Chip

     Well, I got the right side to release properly... I need to get the
    left straightened now. Good thing I had 'em. I flatted 2.5 miles into 
    a 12 mile TT last night and was forced to do a little walking.
    
     Fastest 2.5 miles I ever did!
    
        Chip

	I have Look pedal on both my bikes; Carbon on one and PP66
	on the other. I used to get creaking constantly on both. I tried
	the lemon pledge, etc. I finally found out the creaking was
	coming from the latching mechanism when I was pulling on the
	upstroke. If you clean it and then put some triflow on it may
	help. 

	Steve

      Thanks, Steve... I've determined that it isn't coming from the
    pedals. I swapped my pedals (TT -> Merlin) and I'm getting the same
    thing (both pedal sets are LOOK Carbon Pros)...
    
     So, I'm going to check clearances and the drivetrain. If nothing is
    found, back to the shop for a strip job!
    
       Chip
    
     P.S. Yup, I'm bummin'
    

    
    Chip,
    
    
    You've probably already thought of this, but if that creaking sound
    isn't coming from the pedals, the cheapest, easiest thing to try
    is making certain that the crank bolts are tight.  It will make the
    sound you've described.
    
    r�
    

     Thanks... The very first thing I did was get out the tools and check
    every bolt on the bike... Nothing was loose (sorry to say). I checked
    all moving parts clearance last night and everything seems to be okay.
    
     The real problem (with this problem) is that I can't duplicate it on
    the work stand. It only happens when I'm pounding the life out of it
    (myself too). I can't make it happen when I'm in the saddle.
    
       AAAAAAAA 
               AAA
                  AAAAAAAAAA
                            AAAARRRRR
                                     RRRRRRRRRRRGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
      Chip

    Are you sure you tightened the bolts that hold the chainring to the
    crank?

     Absotively! In fact, I just installed brandy new Ti chainring bolts.
    
       Chip

	Has anyone out there mated the Byrne Speedplay clipless pedals
	to Time shoes?  I found that the screws supplied with the pedals
	aren't long enough to reach through to the threads in the shoes,
	even with the look conversion plate removed.  Also finding 4mm
	flat headed screws is not easy...no one carries them.  I haven't
	gone back to the dealer yet, because I thought there was a simple
	solution.  Is there?...I though about tapping the threads in the
	shoes to 8-32 which is pretty close to 4mm.

	Ted

 Yes, I have Time shoes and Bryne pedals.  There is an adapter kit with
 four spacer washers and longer screws for each shoe.  The plastic inner
 (closest to the shoe) layer is taken off and the spacer washers go between
 the shoe and remaining cleat.  The longer screws fasten into the Time
 pattern.  The pedal needs the space provided by the washers to lock
 securely into the cleat.
 
 There are more than one adapter kit for Time shoes.  Time black sole
 adapter kit is the one I bought.  

	Thanks for the explanation...I called the shop where I bought them,
	after being told everything was included, and was now told that a 
	special adapter kit like you explained was needed.  So I drove up
	after work and they gave it to me for nothing...
	Now to see if they are as good as I've heard...

	Thanks again,
	Ted