Conference noted::bicycle

    The spacing between cogs is the same.  The dropout spacing is
    different.  I have found that a good wheel with a D/A 7 spd free
    wheel wasn't dished quite the same as an STI wheel.  It seems
    like I had to move something to make it right.  On the other hand it
    works fine elsewhere so I just don't mix and match.
    
    Saturday I was told that the Ultegra STI will cost $500.  However,
    I didn't ask what parts were included for the $500.  I would expect it
    to be brake-levers/shifters and deraileurs and cassette and hub
    and brake calipers for those bucks, but I have been known to expect too
    much, too.
    
    ed
    

    
    For $500, I'd expect a whole bike, minus frame and wheels.
    
    -john (living in the dark ages, I know)

I noticed that Colorado Cyclist is already listing the new Ultegra stuff (I'd be
*very* surprised if they can deliver it yet, though).

Ultegra STI is listed under a relatively new product category called
"Brakeset/Shift Levers/Shifters".  It costs $285.00.  The 8-speed Ultegra rear
derailleur is $35.00.  They do not list an 8-speed Ultegra hubset in their ad in
the back of "Bycling (Plus Mountain Bike)", but, since I'm also interested,
I called and it costs $62.99.  An 8-speed cassette is $25.50.  So make that
about $408 bucks, minus wheel building, ordered ala carte.  Note that their
component package price for 8-speed Ultegra STI is $569:  The additional $160
gets you a chain, a bottom-bracket, a crankset and a headset (which, amusingly,
costs about $15 less when ordered separately).

When I called, the guy told me that they didn't have this stuff to ship yet, but
they expected to have it very soon.  Of course, that's what they all say.

Well, it's on my Christmas list!

                                                          -- Mike

    My friendly neigbourhood bikeshop lists Ultegra 8-speed hubs for the
    same price as 7-speed. In the region of 55 pounds (we're at $1.80 this
    week). The guy related a recent demo of Ultegra-STI which sounded
    rather embarrassing for the Shimano rep. So (don't be surprised) you
    may have to wait a while for working ones to show up.
    
       Now my 8-speed supplementaries:
    I haven't heard of proper downtube gear-levers for 8-speed Ultegra.
    Presumably they exist ?
    Will the 8-speed system handle a 26 or 27 ring ? A 14-26 x 39-50 would be a
    nice way to avoid fitting a triple ring for next summer's raids on the
    big hills.
    Will it fit a normal frame ? If the dropout spacing is different, I
    don't suppose it will. As soon as 126mm becomes a standard, what
    happens ? ...
    
    ---Alan (Maybe I should get a Sturmey-Archer)

    I would prfer the better quality of a 7 speed dura ace than 8 speeds
    of ultegra , the reasun is that the springs on the ultegra are weaker 
    and so is the crispness of the shift . Why have 8 gears when you can 
    only use 1 at a time? as far as chain costs you should also keep that 
    in mind , since it will be thinner it will also stretch quicker.
    your wheel will also be weaker if there is more offset required if you 
    have to redish. I also lost money when my ex ultegra deraileur did
    not have enough strenght to prevent my chain tensioned over a bump
                                   ^
                                 keep
    it caused me a bent drop uot , the deraleur blew up , and my spokes
    were ripped off on that side.
     good luck.
    

RE: .4

There are 8-speed downtube shifters for Ultegra.  The Colorado Cyclist ad lists
them for $32.99 ($2.00 more than the 7-speed).  With downtube shifters, the up-
grade from 7 to 8-speed Ultegra isn't that bad.  I've also read somewhere that
their biggest 8-speed cassette will be at least a 13-26.

I think you're right about time to market, though.  I'd be surprised to see
this stuff ship before early summer.  Everybody's pre-releasing specs these
days.  Case in point:  the cadence option for the Avocet Model 50.  I heard a
rumor that the design for that wasn't even tested before Avocet listed it in
their catalogs.  I'm not sure whether you can get one even today, over a year
after it was announced. (I ended up going with the Ciclomaster IIa instead--no
other choices for cycle computers with cadence to fit the fat chainstays on my
Klein).  Heavy sigh.

RE: .5

Having never had the bucks for Dura-Ace (generally twice the price of Ultegra),
I wouldn't know.  However, my Ultegra has held up well and performs quite
nicely, thank you.  If I was racing criteriums, maybe it'd be worth the money,
but for recreational riding and commuting, what I've got is more than adequate.

As for "why 8-speeds?", you might as well ask "why 5?", "why 6?", "why 7?".
The greater the number of cogs, the higher your change for finding exactly what
you need for the current terrain and level of fatigue.

Brake-lever shifters may be just an expensive gimmick, but what can I say?
I love cool gimmicks, and this one appeals to me.

                                                      -- Mike

    Your 7-spd wheels will work fine with STI.  I've been using STI for
    three months, and I don't even own a cassette hub -- the STI functions 
    fine with a cluster, either Dura-Ace or Maillard -- so you should have 
    no problems with a 7-spd cassette.
    
    I am using a Sedisport ATB chain, which is fairly inexpensive and
    pretty easy to find.  There are also several places now that offer the
    Dura-Ace STI for less than $500.  I assume they would offer Ultegra STI
    for $250-300. 
    
    Justin

     Just to support Justin's statement... I'm in the same boat with TT
    bike and everything works great (even as good as my CAMPY stuff :-)
    
      Chip

I've recently been informed that my Klein won't take the eight-speed hub and
cassette (something about needing 130mm vs 126mm between the rear dropouts),
and, being aluminum, can't be adjusted so that'd fit.

Oh, well--I guess I'll just have to settle for 7-speed STI.

This looks like an appropriate note for this question.

I'll soon be acquiring a frame with 130mm rear width. Instead of splashing
out for eight-speed I'd rather convert my existing 126mm Shimano 105sc hub 
to 130mm.

Seems to me that I should be able to do this by buying a Shimano 130mm axle,
putting that through the hub, and spreading the locknuts 4mm with a few
washers.

Questions:
- Does an 8-speed (130mm) axle use the same thread as a 7-speed (126mm) axle?
- Can you think of any other problems I might encounter?


Rod
   

I've now done the operation described in .10 with no problems. A Shimano 
Ultegra 8-speed axle does indeed use the same thread as a 105 7-speed axle.
A few washers spaced the locknuts out to the correct width, so no need to
redish the wheel or anything tiresome like that.

The only residual worry was that the 105 rear derailleur wouldn't be able to
lean in far enough to put the chain onto the largest cog, since that cog is
two washers further away from the dropout than it used to be. But no problem
there either, fiddling with the gear cable tension and derailleur travel
set-screws has got the indexing working fine.

So, for about �10 I've converted a 7-speed 126mm hub to a 7-speed 130mm hub.
Cheaper than buying new wheels and transmission. Though I haven't ruled that
out either. 


Rod

    I know it's less than a degree but did you realign your dropout?
    
    ed

Surely I don't need to? The point of the exercise was to allow me to continue
to use a wheel, originally intended for use on a frame with 126mm spacing,
on a new frame with 130mm spacing. With the washers and the new axle I've
spaced the hub out to 130mm, just right for the new frame. So why would I
want to realign the dropouts?


Roddy

    In theory your dropouts were parallel when they were 126mm apart. 
    Making them 130mm apart means that they will not be parallel
    without being under tension (forced) and even with a QR holding them
    tight the nuts on the axle will not have uniform pressure holding them
    in (there should be more on the front than on the back because the
    aforementioned non-parallel dropouts are under tension.  These could
    lead to premature axle breakage.
    
    Also, the deraileur hanger would no longer be in the proper plane
    which can lead to sloppy shifting properties.
    
    All of this matters to a purist.  However it may well be within
    engineering specs.
    
    ed

    
    Ed, the way I read Roddy's situation, he's not spreading the
    frame - it already has 130mm spacing.  So all the angles (drop-outs, 
    etc.) should be ok for it.  
    
    He's just adding spacers so that the 126mm wheel will fit "naturally"
    (without squeezing in the frame) into the drop-outs.  Is that 
    an accurate reading?
    
    -john

    AHHH, answered the wrong question again.  Well, I'll leave it there so
    that when someone asks the right question, I can unabashedly say,
    "We have already answered thaat, go find it."
    
    :-)
    
    ed

    
    In line with Ed's thinking, I've added the keyword
    
                          Spread'em
    
    to his educational reply .14.  :-)
                                                 -john

Two frames, count 'em, two: one with 126mm rear width and a new one to replace
it that has 130mm rear width. I'm just being a cheapskate and trying to carry
on using the old wheels. I'm surprised you didn't get that, Ed, you being
a bit of a collector yourself when it comes to velos. As for John Lee, he's
as on the ball as usual!


Roddy

    Ok, so you do have a 126mm bike that's getting it's dropouts spread
    without being set?  Some scholls of thought exist that expect a problem
    eventually.
    
    As for having bikes with different spreads, yeah, but you should see my
    wheel collection.  :-)
    
    ed

.19>    Ok, so you do have a 126mm bike that's getting it's dropouts spread
.19>    without being set? 

Nein nein nein! I HAD a frame with 126mm spacing. Now I have REPLACED it
with an *entirely*different*and*completely*unrelated* frame with 130mm
spacing. Two frames! No spreading!! No problem!!!


Roddy 
 

    must be the language barrier:  :-)
    
    oh, ok.
    
    ed

    
    
    I have a related 6 speed to 7 speed question. Will 7 speed
    non-hyperglide Shimano cassette cog fit on a 6 speed DeoreXt 
    non-hyperglide hub? Will all 6/7 speed Shimano SIS (non-hyperglide) 
    cogs fit the same hubs?
    
    BTW, I've determined (through this file and experimentation) that (in
    most cases) you can:
    *   simply replace a 6 speed freewheel with a 7 speed freewheel 
        (or 8 speed freewheel). Most of the time, there is enough
        room. If there is not enough room on the axle, go to the next 
        larger size. I have done this with a 5-to-6 speed conversion
        and a 6-to-7 speed conversion (two different bikes) and had plenty
        of room (for chain/axle).
    
    *   If you have to add spacers to one side, you may have to redish 
        the wheel. If the new width (if spacers were added or if using 
        a new wheel) does not fit easily, then you can 1) manually spread 
        the rear triangle each time or 2) have the triangle cold set. This
        observation applies to chromoly frames only.