Conference noted::bicycle

    Mavic O4CD are great rims and strong and somewhat aero.  The ceramic 
    coated ones seem a real overkill (and a lot of $$) for something I
    believe is a minor (brake marks on rim) rather than a major problem.
    Since I am a Dura-Ace kind of guy I cant think of any other hubs
    that I would use.
    
    Mike

     I run an American Classic hub on my TT machine. It is unbelievably
    smooth and friction-free. They have a rep for a short life, but I
    know a guy who's been running them for training and racing and they're
    doing fine (cartidges anyway so they just require replacement).
    
     Rims are another story. I'm sure if you want lightweight stuff you'll
    go with throw-ups... Ooops, I mean sew-ups..
    
      Good Luck...
    
                  Chip

    
    
      I seem to be rather tough on wheels.  Particularly rear ones.
    
    I've had MA-40s last about 5000 miles (developed flat spot then started
    					   breaking spokes)
    
    I've had Wheelsmith Saturae(36sp) rims last about 4000 miles.
    					   (Killed in crash)
    
    Then there were this years O4CD(32sp) rear wheel that went beyond repair
    after about 2000 miles of never being very reliable.
    					(I think this was a bad building job)
    
    I don't think that any of thise rims was particularly good but I am
    very impressed with the 32sp Campy Record Stada rims that I am riding
    on now.  I've had them for 3 years and until know used them exclusively
    for racing but recently started training on them as well. These are
    very fast very light(350 grams) tubular rims.
    
    John C.
    

    
    I will look into the Campy Strada rims, and the other suggestions
    (for which, thanks).  BTW, I do have a nice pair of tubular wheels
    now -- this morning I looked at the rims: they are Mavic and say
    Monthlery Legere on them.  (The hubs are 28 hole high-flange Record.)
    
    At some point I'm tempted to get the Mavic ceramic rims, but not
    for performance, just braking.
    
    -john

    Spokes: Wheelsmith Oval spokes are lightweight, very aero (sharp edge),
            & no slotting necessary.  I've have them on my clincher
    	    training wheels (Mavic Open 4-CD rims, D/A hubs); trained 2 years 
            (9000 mi), hard riding on rough New England roads with no 
            wheelsmith oval spoke breakage front or rear. Check 'em out ... 
    	    light, durable, aero .... best around.  I also have a very good
    	    wheelbuilder & that helps...
    
    Regards,
    Mark

       <<< MOVIES::DISK$SYSDATA:[NOTES$LIBRARY]EURO_RANDONNEUR.NOTE;2 >>>
                              -< Alpine cycling >-
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Note 88.9                New-fangled toys & maintenance                  9 of 10
JURA::LETCHER "If not for good; if not for better"   10 lines   6-DEC-1994 10:15
                              -< Spokey or what? >-
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    Having chatted with Rod over the last few days about various aspects of
    bike building, and in particular wheel building, my question to the
    panel is, given how much better materials are these days than they were
    in around 1920 when they were also using 32 and 36 spoked wheels, why do
    wheels still have so many spokes in them? Is it just a legacy from the
    days of wooden rims and hobby horse bikes, or is it really essential,
    even today?
    
    Piers
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Note 88.10               New-fangled toys & maintenance                 10 of 10
JURA::MACFADYEN "under new management"               19 lines   6-DEC-1994 10:29
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    Could be worth asking this in Bicycle notes since so few people seem to
    read this file at the moment.
    
    FWIW, I think that the use of 32/36 spokes nowadays is largely down to
    tradition. I don't believe that it is strictly an engineering decision.
    The problem for me is that I don't know where the real limits are. I
    note that the type of aero wheel with a deep rim which has become
    prevalent in the past year or two, such as Campag Shamal and its
    variants, have from 12 to 20 spokes. They do strike me as wheels that
    have been designed by engineers, so there's a clue. On the other hand,
    those deep rims must be very strong so it would be unwise to assume
    that a more conventional rim could also get away with so few spokes.
    
    At the moment I'd risk building a 28-spoke wheel for general riding. In
    any case, that's the lowest spoke number you can get for conventional
    rims.
    
    
    Rod
    

   It's a good question.

   I believe Jobst Brandt discusses this issue in his treatise on
   the bicycle wheel, my copy is not at hand at the moment.

   At any rate, I can ask the question in the bicycling internet
   news group (it may even be in the FAQ.)

   I don't think it is strictly tradition since there are issues with
   the crossing pattern of the spokeks and the diameter of the hub
   flange and so on.  But there are wheels for tandems and such with
   more than the traditional 32 or 36 spokes (I think 40 is a possible
   number.)

   - Jim