Conference noted::bicycle

>  can anyone suggest why?

Is it indexed?

If not, I'll bet the shift lever needs tightened.

    If it is indexed, I'd bet the cable ought to be tightened.
    
    ed

    
    Different question but the topic sounds right.
    
    this weekend while cleaning my chain and derailleur i noticed that the
    derailleur seems to be loose. It attaches to the dropout via an allen
    screw and what appears to be a rubber or nylon bushing. i notice side
    to side play in the assembly.. tightened the allen down and the play is
    still there. the bike shifts fine, is this anything that requires
    attention?
    
    Mike

     Sometimes (most of, as a matter of fact) the screw holding the
    derailleur is a machined screw of different proportions (e.g.
    fat at the head and tapered at the threads). 
    
     If the screw was loose for a while it may have worn itself or the
    hole a little... Might want to check that - Just a guess.
    
     I would think you'd need another one to see if any difference 
    exists - except, of course, if there appears some very severe
    wear to either the hole or the screw...
    
      Chip

    
    thanks, Chip. so it sounds like it is something i'd better try 
    and fix.
    
    I'm not sure my reply made it clear.. the allen screw has tightened
    down snug, but the wobble remains. or maybe that was clear to you, and
    the oversized hole you mention is where the grommet fits in, and not
    the threaded hole for the allen... either way i'll take it apart
    tonite. /Mike

    How many miles do you have on it?  I had a similar situation with my
    Chorus derailleur after about 12K miles.  It was just plain worn out at
    the hinge pins.  I took it to Don at Frank's Spoke 'n Wheel and he
    confirmed.
    
    Since this wear was affecting shifting, I seized this opportunity to 
    switch to a Dura-Ace drive train.
    
    Regards,
    Phil

    
    I'm trying to envision the connection you describe.  Do you 
    think that the washer (or bushing) may be worn down and thus
    need more padding?  Just a thought.  If so, it would be a cheap
    solution.  BTW, if the derailleur still shifts fine, as you say,
    then it may or may not be time to replace it.  (I'm not exactly
    saying "Leave well enough alone..." but...)
    
    -john

    the bike doesn't have that many miles on it. it was new ni the spring
    and i've gone thru one set of tires. 
    
    i think .7 has the right idea.. it seems that the bushing may be worn
    out. i'll try the bike shop for a replacement.

I've felt this side-to-side play on several rear derailleurs, including on
both my bikes. I decided that it wasn't worth bothering about, since the
shifting on both bikes is fine, and put it down to manufacturing tolerances.
It's not satisfying, but if there are no shifting problems, I wouldn't try
to do anything about it.


Rod

Okay, here's the third rear derailleur woe. I have Shimano 600 components. They
are only 11 years old, so no problem there. The rear derailleur will not move
the chain onto the smallest cog when the chain is on the large chainwheel. If I
shift onto the smaller chainwheel then back again, ths chain is put onto the
smallest cog. Any ideas? I suppose it is possible that the derailleur is worn
out. On the other hand, I keep telling myself that it is just an adjustment.
The only problem is I have no idea what to adjust!

Some points: 	NO it's not indexed
		YES it's clean and lubricated
		YES the chain is relatively new and the same length as the old
			one

So, it shifts fine on the small chainwheel but not the large one.

Thanks,
Tim

    
    Tim,
    
    Do you have any idea how many miles you have on the derailleur?
    Could you try putting an extra link in the chain and see if that
    makes a difference?  Is there play in the jockey wheels?  
    
    -john

     I hope this isn't insulting, but there is an adjustment screw right on
    the derailleur (usually two - one for bringing the stops in and the
    other for out). 
    
     Insure that the cable is not too tight. This would also interfere with
    the derailleur returning all the way  down.
    
     Did this just happen all of a sudden?
    
       Chip

    
    	You mentioned that the derailleur was clean.  What about the cable,
    particularly as it passes under the bottom bracket?  If it "kinks" you
    may not be getting the cable as slack as it needs. 
    	The "short chain" theory seems to make the most sense.  If not
    that,  I would imagine the cable adjustment is a "hair" short.
    
     2
    r 

    o You might need new pulley wheels on your rear derailleur.
    
    o Your derailleur cage (or the tab that the derailleur screws into)
      might be bent.
    
    o The cogs on your rear cluster might be worn out.

    Or the spring that returns the cage to the outermost position might be
    tired from age or worn.

    OR Pat might really like your De Rosa!  Nah, forget I suggested that.
    
    :-)
    
    Tell Pat we said, "Hi!"
    
    ed

    
    RE: .-1
    
    I'll convey that... :-)
    
    -j

Well guys,

thanks for the suggestions so far. I have checked some of these points already,
so here's my checklist.

1. I tried putting an extra link into the chain (as well as taking one out)
2. the jockey wheels seem okay, how much play is too much?
3. the adjustment screw does not bottom out, i.e. there is a slight gap
between the tip of the screw and the derailleur body
4. cable too tight - could be. I plan to loosen the cable slightly this weekend
to check.
5. cage bent - I don't think so. the derailleur looks perpendicular. How can I
check?
6. cogs worn - again, I'm pretty sure that they're okay.
7. spring worn - very likely.

A few other answers. My estimate of miles on the bike are about 15,000. Yes,
the problem started suddenly. However, I had the frame stripped and repainted.
Then, I reassembled the bike with new cables and chain. When I put it back
together, I can only access the 6th sprocket on the small chainwheel. I can
then shift onto the large chainwheel without any problem.

So thanks for the suggestions. I'll be using a bit of time over Eater to check
them out. I hope the weather is good for all of us. We've been having a pretty
wet week so far, but the situation is definitely improving.

Cheers,
Tim

Seems to me the obvious candidate is that the gear wire is too tight. That
would definitely prevent the derailleur from getting to its most relaxed
position, which is when the chain is on the smallest cog. 

Where the gear wire enters the derailleur body, there should be an adjuster
that is used to adjust the tension in the gear wire. Have you tried fiddling
with that? 


Roddy

>Seems to me the obvious candidate is that the gear wire is too tight. That
>would definitely prevent the derailleur from getting to its most relaxed
>position, which is when the chain is on the smallest cog. 

I quck way to see if this is the problem is to find a section
of the cable that's not inside the housing (for instance along the downtube).

Shift all the way onto the small cog.  If this section is flapping in
the breeze, or slackens a little bit, then a tight gear wire is NOT
the problem.

-Jeff Bell

    After 10+ years, the derailleur on my wife's bike couldn't pick up the
    small cog either.  The cable was slack and the adjustment was all the
    way out; the derailleur cage was touching the body of the derailleur
    and that was limiting the outward motion.  Additionally, the hinge pins
    for the cage were worn, so its motion was sloppy - it couldn't generate
    enough side force on the chain to make that last shift before the cage
    ran out of range of motion.  (My nonprofessional assessment of what I
    saw.)
    
    I replaced the derailleur with another that I happened to have lying
    around, and everything works fine now.
    
    Andy

    
    
    	If you've had work done to the frame, check that the braze on for
    your derailleur isn't bent or out of line.
    
    Graham.
    

Well, thanks for all the helpful suggestions. I spent some time over the
weekend and ended up setting the high adjustment screw. I have always had good
luck with the belief that this screw should be set so the chain is nicely
aligned on the smallest cog when the travel is at its limit. However, this
doesnt seem good enought for the tired derailleur any more. So, it now slightly
overshifts, but it gets onto the cog fine without coming off the cog so far.

I tried lots of the other ideas without any success. It was really useful to
have a checklist to step through. On the bright side, it was a beautiful
weekend and I got quite a few kilometres on my road bike. On the not so bright
side, this was partly enforced by having three bikes stolen from my garage on
Thursday night. If any of you are offered a Cannondale SM-1000 at a cut price,
let me know. I know I'm in the U.K. and many of you are not, but these bikes
have to go somewhere!

Again, thanks for all your help.

Tim

    
    Tim, sorry to hear about the thefts.  Three bikes!!  
    You are taking this with some admirable outward equanimity.
    
    Hope at least you get the insurance to pay.  Your blue MTB
    looked really great, if that was yours at DECpark.
    
    Good luck.
    -john

Yes, that was a nice bike. Sorry to hear you've lost it.


Rod