Conference noted::bicycle

    
    First, differentiate between day rides and weekend or longer
    trips.  If it's an overnight trip, the logistical complications
    go up an order of magnitude.  They may not have enough room to
    accommodate everyone.  This is why they need you to sign up in
    advance.  It's ludicrous to think you can just "show up" and
    just "expect" an acccommodation for an overnight space, even if
    they're camping, the group may have reserved the whole camping
    area, for people who went out of their way to register early.
    If I were running the trip, I'd think "what gall this guy has,
    get out of here and stop wasting my time!"  Be nice - if you
    really want to show up at the last second for one of these, say
    you've got your own accommodations or whatever, or offer something.
    What are they supposed to do?  Bend over backwards for someone
    who has to have things "his way" - 1 out of 1000 people?
    
    Also, perhaps with the increasing popularity of a ride/event,
    they've had to put up with more and more bozos trying to come
    along.  We've experienced this in AYH with Cape In A Day.  Tom,
    the guy running the trip, got an unbelievable number of rude calls
    from people practically *demanding* a spot on the trip and
    threatening in all sorts of way, such as, "Well, how can you stop
    me from coming on the trip?  How can you stop me from joining you
    for lunch at the bridge and eating your food?  How can you stop me
    from "just camping" next to the hostel?"  Unbelievably rude.  So,
    next year we plan to limit the trip to members (in effect charging
    a $25 surcharge, 50% the cost of the trip, the cost of a membership,
    for non-members wishing to go on it).  Raining on people's parade,
    it might be to you, but we've only *got* 45 spaces at the hostel,
    and this is *the* most popular trip we run each year!  The mid-June
    date was filled before the end of April this year!  We run the
    trip - our rules.  And we have *no* problem filling it!  We don't
    need you!  (or any particular individual)
    
    A word on charity events: they're trying to raise money, so
    of course, they're going to charge a certain greater $$$ for
    the ride.  That's the *point*.  These are usually very well-run
    events with large volunteer staffs, and they don't want more
    people coming on the ride than they can handle.  They're ususally
    a lot more well-run with a lot more perks than. say, a $10 CRW
    century ride.  I would also suggest that if you don't feel strongly
    enough about the cause to raise the money and ask your friends and
    colleagues for money, that you *don't* belong on the ride.  And
    the charity events organizers rightly so feel the same way.  I just
    did my first PMC this year, and raised about $1800.  Why?  I felt
    *strongly* enough about the cause!  Why should PMC or any other ride
    just let you "go on" the ride because you're a nice guy?  They're in
    business to raise money, buster.  Not the business of catering to
    your cycling.  That's *quite* secondary!
    
    It's sooooooo obvious, Fred, that you've never tried to offer
    to run a trip like one of these or volunteered to help.  I
    have *extremely* limited patience with people like you who only
    bitch, but don't lift a finger to do anything!!!
    
    My suggestion: if you don't like it, run one of your own the
    way you like it!
    
    Enough flaming for now.
    
    

    Fred, I think rides fall into one of two categories.  Some end up as
    cash cows, whether they be charity rides or club rides with big
    attendences.  They have things to be said for them and I'll leave it
    to others to say those things.
    
    Other rides are put on by groups who are doing their thing to give
    something to the cycling world.
    
    Now it turns out that this is not a perfect dichotomy and many
    nice folks volunteer for the cash cow events and make them fun for the
    participants.
    
    Folks like me often get calls from charities that don't even know
    what NH looks like but are looking for volunteers and organizers
    to run things.  My philosophy there is "Hmmm, you don't have any
    contacts in NH to run this century ride for you yet?  It'd be pretty
    hard for me to find someone to help you."  And they usually say
    "thanks" and and call someone else.  Groups like MD, MS, ALA,
    AHA, at least have organizations here and work from that but I
    still stay away from the ones that only wink at bike safety.
    
    ed

    There are different flavors of rides:

    Solo:  You leave from your front door.  No hassles. Self-support.

    Private:  You leave from a friends door.  It takes a couple minutes
            of planning.  If you are in luck, your friend might be
            able to lend you a tube.

    Show and go: You leave from a parking lot.  The leader might have
            spent the night before looking over maps, and might be
            carrying a few extra tools, but don't count on it.

    Arrowed: Someone spent an afternoon painting arrows on the ground.
            No guarantee of support though.  If you start with the
            rest of the club, you'll have someone to talk to at the
            ice cream stops.

    Sag Wagon:  There will be a four wheel vehicle that goes out and
            picks up the riders who got themselves into trouble.

    Multiday Club:
            I organized a club multiday trip once.  It took a few months
            planning, and was loads of fun, but I felt like I needed a
            vacation afterwards.

    Fully Supported:
    Professional:
            (I've never been on any of these.)


    The net effect is that if you want to have the least hassle,
    do it yourself.  The organizers of the big trips would
    have much more fun.

    I will admit that some organizers are better at making it fun
    for the participants.  A lot of time, that is more a matter
    of their personality and of their altruism.


    I've seen enough trips where the organizer has to drive an hour
    to sit in the pouring rain just in case any of the riders show up.
    Does HHH require advance registration?


    -Jeff Bell

Greetings,

First, I should never never never note during work because I usually
do it because I've got entirely too many brain cells not being used
and it gets me in somekind of trouble.

Second, to .1 I certianly hope you've got most of the flames cooled
I havn't gotten anyone that steamed in a while. And now that I'm home
with only a standby call to worry about I'll answer some of your 
concerns:

1. I can only imagine the kind of problems that are involved with
a overnight ride, The only ones I've ridden on are the Bike Ride
across Georgia. I was astounded at the volume of whining I heard 
on the ride, they were complaining about EVERYTHING. I was so disgusted
with these kind of riders and if it were to be attributed anything 
it would be because there were alot of people who had never done this
before. This kind of whining and complaining is a fact of life whenever
you deal with humans. Tragically in my case procrastingation is one
of my little faults, I don't even bother going on rides that say
you need to preregister or have a something for late registration.
I went all the way to Georgia and Texas with no registration but
I also wouldn't go to the RAGBRAI with such a similar briliant plan!
So I'd say that bozo's and generally rude people are a fact of life
whenever you are involved with organinzations.

2. Concerning charity rides, I love cycling so much that anything 
that gets more attention to it is terrific and it appears that MS
(the only one I see alot) does thisI guess I'd love to go on 
these rides if they wanted like a sawbuck donation or so rather 
$13000.00's in pledges. But that, apparently, is my problem. 

3. I was gabbing with some of the club leaders at a century one time
and they said the reason they do a century is to raise money. They
said they made money on the 8 dollar entry fee and they had all 
sorts of trinkets to sell. Also they were saying they liked having
lots of people at the ride and the more the better. It would seem
to me that whould be the goal. These things aren't the RAAM or
something.

Well that ought to just about clear that all up. 

Fred Mudgett

    
    1. The work involved: hey, it's even work to map out a non-sagged
       part-of-a-day century!  (That's the level of involvement I'm up to.)
       I can only imagine the hardship in setting up a supported, multiday
       affair.  People who do it get my commendation.  Meanwhile, a couple
       of stories:
    
    2. Case History: The Assault on Mount Mitchell - Up to about 5 years
       ago, the Mitchell ride attracted a only few hundred riders and was
       run essentially as a "family affair" by a few people in Spartanburg SC.
       By the late '80's, nearly 2000 people were registering.  It's "only"
       a century, but (a) it is a point-to-point century, ending 102 miles
       away from Spartanburg and 5580 feet higher; (b) some of the route
       is the only road available - specifically, the Blue Ridge Parkway
       and NC hwy 128 - so non-event traffic is inconvenienced (meaning a
       lot of flak from the US Park Service).
    
       By 1990, the entry fee had increased to $45, including a bus trip
       home, with pre-registration mandatory, and possibly a rider limit of
       something like 1800.  Also, different people were running it.  This
       is an example of a good ride that is still good, but has suffered
       from overpopularity vs. the logistical capacity of the ride.  (By
       comparison, five times as many cyclists come to HHH, and it works fine:
       the routes are loops, and there are no geographical constrictions.)
    
    3. Case History: Paris-Brest-Paris - More than 3000 cyclists started at
       PBP this year - it is a 750-mile out-and-back ride, with a 90-hour
       time limit.  It is a daunting endeavor, but was executed superbly.
       The checkpoints had plenty of food and usually adequate sleeping 
       accomodations; the route was very well marked, and easy to follow;
       there were patrol vehicles scouting around.
    
       Hundreds and thousands of people made this ride possible, including
       contingents from every town that had a checkpoint.  It worked because
       it was History and a kind of Cause.  Not many rides can count on that, 
       however. :-)
    
    4. Case History: Boston-Montreal-Boston - Same distance as PBP but with
       a fraction of the ridership - may make it even more difficult,
       because a handful of people have managed to bring BMB off every year.
    
    3. Case History: the Tarheel Solstice Centuries - these are the ones I
       have run.  I try to prepare very good route sheets and maps, that
       include places to get food and water, plus short-cuts back home.
    
       The rides are not sagged, and they're in December, but the die-hards
       who come to them seem to enjoy them, because they're a chance to do a
       century on a well-defined route, maybe with some entertaining 
       companions, and without much fuss.  (Not to compare my little rides
       with the previous examples!)
    
    -john

    "die=hard"??  Always thought of myself as more or an everready.

    
>    "die=hard"??  Always thought of myself as more or an everready.
    
    Well, I guess it takes a real Everready Die-Hard to come 1800 miles
    for a century in December!  :-)
    
    -john

    FRED:
    
    Try the CAM (Cycle Across Maryland) tour next year.  It is well
    organized and the people I know that have gone have had fun.
    
    Next year it goes from Frostburg (not too flat) to somewhere arount DC. 
    The ride is five days and one day will have an optional century.  Last
    years ride was about 350-400 miles.
    
    If I can work it out with my body I indend to ride it with my neighbor.
    
    ED

Greetings friends,

As Dennis Atkinson wrote up his opinions of the RAGBRAI I have a
couple ideas about the ride I went on when I couldn't make the RAGBRAI,
CAM for Cycle Across Maryland.

This ride is a professionally managed tour and I noticed all sorts of
things that are different from regular rides I've been on. 

Difference #1: This ride attracted a whole different crowd. I c't put
my finger on it but some examples are. There were tons of people who've
did the MS rides (which I found out after saying that I find charity
rides repugent). They followed all sorts of rules that were like having
a mass start of 8:30 which any real cyclist would find much too late in
the day also they had a large meeting everyday and everyone went to it. 
All in all they were very neat, tidy, orderly riders. Nothing wrong with
any of this but it is so much different from the usual cantankerous 
independent nature of cyclists. 

Difference #2: Pricey! The cost of this ride is $125.00 which is roughly
twice the cost of similar rides. For the money there really is no difference
in the service provided. Becausof this there were no familys on the ride.e.
There were alot of couples but very few children. I don't think I'll do it
next year because of the cost, I'd much rather do something that both
one or more of my children and I could do.

Difference #3: Everything that the organizing group promised was done. On
the BRAG there was usually something that didn't happen or happened so 
badly it might as well not have happened. One year on the BRAG there was
like no SAG stops, another year they had no, 0, route markings. 

Through it all I enjoyed the week.  I thought I had done hilly rides before
but Western Maryland has many hills that had this old geezer gasping for 
oxygen.

Things that I learned???

Something, perhaps power bars, gave our 1100 cyclists... ahem, how shall 
I say, gas! Lying in my tent it took me back to DaNang to hear that many
explosions. A fellow rider said it sounded like the drum section tuning 
up.

The numbers for the ride were something to behold. 72% male, most college 
educated or more. 45% had done the ride last year. Occupations were 
engineers, lawyers, software programers. There must be a message in those
numbers.

To give you an idea of what a bunch of amatuers these people were I rode
with a walkman and earphones for 3 days before a cyclist snorted that I
shouldn't do it. Real cyclists wouldn't have let out of the first mile
without giving me an opinion. Anyway I bought a pair of speakers and 
listened to books on tape (The forth protocal and Hunt for the Red October)
while riding. A rider couldn't believe that I could listen to a book
and ride at the same time. I told her I (like David Letterman) have the
strength of ten men! Personally I'd rather listen to a cassette than 
think of my professional future with DEC and its recent plan for the
field service force AKA merciful beheadings.

A week cycling is the only thing more fun than a century. I only feel 
sorry for my long suffering family who sometimes have to come along. 

Fred M.

>did the MS rides (which I found out after saying that I find charity
>rides repugent)
    
    And I find your attitude about charity rides offensive.
    Doing a charity ride each year, for me, makes me feel good
    about myself and about mankind.  Yes, Fred, can you believe
    how "repugnant" this is?  That it actually makes me feel
    *good* to do something worthwhile for people less fortunate
    about myself!  What a terrible person I must be!!!
    
>Difference #2: Pricey! The cost of this ride is $125.00 which is roughly
>twice the cost of similar rides.
    
    Huh?  I thought this was a 5-day ride, no?  I'd *really* be
    interested to see where you can get a sag-supported 5-day ride
    for $60!!
    
>To give you an idea of what a bunch of amatuers these people were I rode
>with a walkman and earphones for 3 days before a cyclist snorted that I
>shouldn't do it. Real cyclists wouldn't have let out of the first mile
>without giving me an opinion. Anyway I bought a pair of speakers and 
>listened to books on tape (The forth protocal and Hunt for the Red October)
>while riding.
    
    Now I know I'm really glad I don't ever ride with you, Fred.
    I don't think I ever want to, what with your attitude about
    us terrible people who ride charity rides, being such a
    cheap-skate, and now this.
    
    I'll give you my opinion on it again: it's a terribly unsafe
    practice, gives bicyclists a bad name, and is illegal in most
    places (or so I thought).

    it's funny how people from MA seem to think that every law they have is
    a good law and that the rest of the world just steps in line.

    Re.10
    
     I don't want to get into the middle of a argument but, BRAG (Bicycle
    Ride Across Georgia) is a seven day sag-supported rid efor a cost of
    $50.00. Next year I doubt it will cost more than $60.00 (cost also
    includes a nice tee shirt).
    
     The ride next year should leave Atlanta around 14-JUN and goes to the
    coast.
    
    Joe
    

    
    re .12: Sounds like a good deal!  I should have asked
    before what the fee for CAM included.  I was assuming
    sag support, gear transport, maps, & campsites.  What do
    you get with BRAG?
    

    
 RE.13

 With BRAG you get a map book which list information about that days 
route (museums, historical sites, that sort of thing) rest stops 
every 10-12 miles (which have free bananas, water, locals selling cakes, 
lemonade, ect) gear transport, campsites (typically at high school or 
college campuses or anywhere that can sleep and shower 2k-3k people) 
and a nice tee shirt. There is also a end of the road party with lots 
of food and free beer. For kids under twelve they get a Olympic size 
gold medal. I took my daughter this year on the tandem, she LOVED
the ride and the medal. This year there were also banks of phone 
booths set up at every campsite and portable showers, which sound 
horrible but, are actually very nice. There are three bike shops that 
ride the days route for people that need help. For the last two years 
Trek had had a guy on a bike pulling a trailer with all the tools needed
to work on a bike, including a work stand. There are also sag wagons for
people that need rides. With all of that there is the camaraderie of 2k+ 
other bikers having a week of fun. If you choose to try it next year 
be careful you might get hooked!

Joe

    
    re .14: Wow! Sounds great!
    

��    <<< Note 2061.10 by LOWELL::GUGEL "another rider for PMC/Jimmy Fund" >>>

��    I'll give you my opinion on it again: it's a terribly unsafe
��    practice, gives bicyclists a bad name, and is illegal in most
��    places (or so I thought).

    Excuse me, but how does this give bicyclists a bad name? I
    often see cyclists do stupid rude things, and I rarely notice
    if they're wearing a walkman.   (More frequently, I see
    motorists doing these things.)

    The only place I know of that it's illegal is Florida.  After
    being hit by a driver in Florida (while cycling), with an
    unsafe car, and no insurance, it's pretty clear that more
    money should be spent enforcing no-biking-with-walkmans
    ordnances.  It's a major threat to society.  

    And no, I didn't have a walkman at the time.  Good thing too,
    it might have been smashed and I wouldn't have been able to
    subsequently ride with it.

    I enjoyed reading Fred's report.  If he doesn't like charity
    rides, and you do fine.  But, I don't think he deserves to
    be bashed for saying he doesn't like them.

    re .9:
    
    >Difference #1: This ride attracted a whole different crowd. I c't put
    >my finger on it but some examples are. There were tons of people who've
    >did the MS rides (which I found out after saying that I find charity
    >rides repugent). 
    
    As far as charity rides go, also known up here by just about everyone -
    INCLUDING the sponsoring organizations, as BEG-A-THONS... I'm torn.  I
    did the American Lung Association ride this year (somewhere there's a
    note in here about the Great River Ride), and it was excellent, but it
    also cost $250 in pledges and a $20 registration fee.  I also did the
    MS150 and it was good too, although not up to the mark set by the ALA
    ride.  It cost $150 in pledges and I forget how much the registration
    fee was.

    The thing I enjoyed least about both rides was getting the pledges.  I
    hate people putting the arm on me for money, so I disliked doing it to
    other people.  But, I kept telling myself it was for a good cause
    (getting me out of my wife's hair for a few days) and did it anyway!  I
    think both organizations do good work, but I think I was there for the
    events, not out of some feeling about doing good for "humanity"...
    
    >They followed all sorts of rules that were like having a mass start of
    >8:30 which any real cyclist would find much too late in the day also
    >they had a large meeting everyday and everyone went to it.  All in all
    >they were very neat, tidy, orderly riders. Nothing wrong with any of
    >this but it is so much different from the usual cantankerous 
    >independent nature of cyclists. 

    Gee, here in Minnesota this is NORMAL...  Everyone is neat, tidy, and
    orderly (kind of a Garrison Keeler, Lake Woebegon, attitude).  They
    have meetings and everybody goes.  After the meeting everybody starts
    together...  you mean this ISN'T normal?
    
    >Anyway I bought a pair of speakers and  listened to books on tape (The
    >forth protocal and Hunt for the Red October) while riding. 
    
    I do this frequently... on the bike or in the car.  Especially early in
    the season when I'm in pain, and too slow to ride with anyone else.  It
    certainly makes long car trips go by more quickly...
    
>>Difference #2: Pricey! The cost of this ride is $125.00 which is roughly
>>twice the cost of similar rides.
>    
>    Huh?  I thought this was a 5-day ride, no?  I'd *really* be
>    interested to see where you can get a sag-supported 5-day ride
>    for $60!!
    
    I agree as far as cost.  I'd love to find well-organized, multi-day
    trips here in MN that aren't EXPENSIVE!  The TRAM (The Ride Across
    Minnesota) is 5-6 days, but its another $250 pledge ride plus
    registration.  
    
    As far as the Walkman, wearing headphones is illegal here in Minnesota
    too while on a bike, although apparently not for the boneheads that are
    out jogging and roller-blading, completely oblivious to everything
    going on around them.  The story I heard was that one of our state
    representatives was held-up by a person on a bike didn't move out of
    her way, obviously because he couldn't hear her due to the headphones
    he was wearing, so she hustled back to the capital and introduced a
    bill to outlaw this dangerous practice!  Of course, on the other hand,
    I"ve heard people go past me wearing headphones and I could clearly
    hear the musice from 4-6 feet away.  I imagine they'd have a hard time
    hearing a car approach from behind with that much noise in their
    ears...
    
    I wear mine if I'm on the bike paths - of course now they've put a 10
    mph speed limit on the bike paths so I'm illegal THERE too!  

    Sheesh!  Minnesota, the state where absolutely NOTHING is permitted!

    
    As always, I enjoy words from Fred-le-provocateur...
    
    As for charity-pledge rides (or charity events in general), I think
    it's a good idea to ask up front what percentage of each pledge
    actually goes to helping the people the charity benefits.  The
    organization should be able to quote this statistic to you immediately,
    subtracting out the admin. overhead, promo costs, and costs of putting
    on the event.  Research shows that charities vary widely and wildly in
    how much of the money you raise actually gets to the end benficiaries.
    (Some are quite good; others not so.)
    
    -john

Greetings friends,

Well, I seemed to have gotten someone's attention once again! I
was attempting to contrast the types of cyclists that I saw on
different rides. In contemplating this difference I thought of 
another similar contrast (which will cause less heartache). How
about the difference between the riders on a club ride and those
you meet on a century. I remember writing earlier that when I did
my first century I noticed at the beginning the riders all seemed
to be noisy, talking and basically having the time of their life.
As the different turnoffs for the 25, 50 and 62 mile mark were made
the crowd got noticably quiet and more grim. THAT WASN'T MEANT AS A
SLAM AGAINST CENTURY RIDERS OR GRIM PEOPLE, SOME OF THE NICEST PEOPLE
I KNOW ARE CENTURY RIDERS AND GRIM. Club rides I've been on seem to
attract a whole different level of committment from those who look
forward to a 100 mile event. 

Now concerning cost. This is a big determinant on a week long event. 
The BRAG is still my favorite event because I can bring the kids along.
At $60 each the whole family can and does go. That family involvment 
makes the ride fun. The CAM on the other hand at $125 per had almost 
no children and no families, alot of couples. Speaking of cost a number
between $50 and $90 is where most of the camping tours are. RAGBRAI
was $60 this year, another ride that I considered AIBR Across Illinos
Bike Ride as similarly $75. These costs are low because everything gets
donated by someone and camping sites are public areas such as schools
and parks. 

Also on a humorous note, I was on TV this time. TWICE! The first time
the TV people were shooting in front of the men's room which I was attempting
to visit. So there it is a lovely woman talking to the camera and heres
I come with a certian look in my eye, stop and back out of the scene. 
Second time I was at the end of the day's ride and going to a local 
resturant (which it turns out had awful food) and the TV people asked
me if I would speak on camera. They asked me how much I spent on the
ride and I rambled on for what could be termed hours. So I called
my wife told her to tape the news. The second half of my TV career 
consisted of me saying "ten to twenty dollars." I'll stick to field service.

Finally concerning charity rides. They are wonderful. I have personally 
bought girl scout cookies, candy, greetings cards, pledged $X.XX per
lap swam/mile walked/k.ran, have a freezer with indigestable grinders
or pizzas all in the name of charity. I don't mind it! Its okay! In fact
one of the best things that ever happened to me was because I didn't 
pledge to the Navy Relief Society I was given 1 months mess duty which
gave me time to investigate a electronics school. The problem I have
is what Perez was saying in his note, I couldn't ask people for money 
for a charity. Also to use this hobby I love to raise money is like 
watching one of my children (not the teenagers) used as a draft horse.
I DON'T MEAN TO SLAM DRAFT HORSES, SOME OF MY BEST MEMORIES ARE OF 
DRAFT HORSES! The point I was hoping to make was that different rides
attract different riders. Thats all honest. Take the RAAM for instance...


Oh well off to the factory,

Fred

   re .9
 
   I, too, do the Pan-Mass Challenge that Ellen does.  Although, "offensive"
   may not be the right word I did take notice of the "repugnant" reference 
   of/to fundraiser participants.

   The fact that the "ride attracted a whole different crowd." interested me.
   During the weekend of the PMC I find nothing but camaraderie between riders,
   staff, volunteers, sponsors, spectators....

   "...the usual cantankerous independent nature of cyclists."  I try my best
   to NOT fall into this category. I find this one of the problems I'm left 
   to deal with when some motorist have had "situation" with those 
   "cantankerous" individuals.  Maybe it's my nature, but when I'm out riding
   and have a rider come the other direction I give a wave and try to smile.
   It irritates me when the other rider doesn't even acknowledge I'm there.

   Meetings, tidy, orderly all sound what "organized" mean.

   "Through it all I enjoyed the week."   That's all that counts!! 

   >Things that I learned???
   >Something, perhaps power bars, gave our 1100 cyclists... ahem, how shall 
   >I say, gas!   
                  OH OH!  Don't tell my wife!

   re .9 & .17

   Headphone are against the law here in Mass. (for car anyway, I believe)
   I recall a story of a state trooper pulling over a guy in a U-haul for 
   wearing headphone, only notice a "sweet smell" coming form the back of 
   the truck.  It was full of Marijuana.

   Anyway, my opinion of riders that wear headphone is "not positive."  I
   think it impairs a riders ability to be fully aware of his/her surroundings,
   especially at speeds in excess of 20-25 mph. 

   re .17

   >The thing I enjoyed least about both rides was getting the pledges.

   This is the worst part of doing any fundraiser.

   >I hate people putting the arm on me for money, so I disliked doing it
   >to other people.  

   I do my best to give people an out, but the majority of my sponsors remind
   to come back next year.  

   >...but I think I was there for the
   >events, not out of some feeling about doing good for "humanity"...

   I agree, a lot of people do it for the event.  That might be a little 
   different with the PMC.  There seam to be a significant number who are 
   riding in memory of a relative (as I do), or for a friend who is going
   through chemotherapy or because they themself received treatment of cancer.

   >Sheesh!  Minnesota, the state where absolutely NOTHING is permitted!

   Sounds familiar! Maybe it's something about "M" States?

   re .18

   > As for charity-pledge rides (or charity events in general), I think
   > it's a good idea to ask up front what percentage of each pledge
   > actually goes to helping the people the charity benefits.  The
   > organization should be able to quote this statistic to you immediately,
   > subtracting out the admin. overhead, promo costs, and costs of putting
   > on the event.  Research shows that charities vary widely and wildly in
   > how much of the money you raise actually gets to the end beneficiaries.
   > (Some are quite good; others not so.)
    
   > -john

   This is one of the major reason I'm proud to be associated with the 
   Pan-Mass Challenge.  The Jimmy Fund, the fundraising branch of the 
   Dana-Farber Cancer Inst., receives 92% of the money raised by the PMC.
   Last years contribution of $1.55 million attributed for approximately
   20% of the Jimmy Fund's donations.


		Tim 
			PMC '88,'89,'90,'91'92....'til it's just for fun!

    
    My own personal philosophy on fund-raising rides is this.
    
    1) I'd *better* be committed to the cause because if
    I'm not, I, too, could not ask people for pledges unless
    *I* really believe in it and am willing to give to it too.
    
    2) I will not ride more than one pledge ride a year
    because it seems unfair to me to burden my friends and
    family more than once a year for this sort of thing ;-)
    
    The good part about #2 is that many of them sort of
    expect me to ask them when that time of year comes
    around again.
    
    Also, I sponsor them back for events they do such as
    the Walk for Hunger each May, From All Walks of Life
    for AIDS each June, someone for an MS ride each year,
    buying raffle tickets year-round, etc.  And that makes
    me feel good to have a two-way relationship.
    
    And, I've only found that about 1% of the folks I ask
    for a pledge appears to "hate it", as you say you do.
    Some say "no", a lot say "yes", but not many show
    disgust.  At least the ones I find that "hate it"
    have shown their true colors.  It really makes me wonder
    if they're just stingy & selfish and if they give money
    to *any* charities.
    
    3) I won't attempt to raise money for a ride or event
    that doesn't have a wide popular appeal.  The Jimmy Fund
    is such a cause because almost everyone has been touched
    by cancer in their families or friends somewhere along
    the way.  One friend asked me to support her for some
    ride for something I'd never even heard of, so I simply
    told her, "no, I can't, I'm giving to other causes right
    now".
    

    One thing that Fred forgot to mention about CAM is that the event is
    donating 1200, yes that is 1200 GYRO helmets to middle school children. 
    I will ride the CAM again and at $125 consider it to be a cheap weeks
    vacation.
    
    By the way, Fred isn't as bad as he wants you to believe.  We went
    together and I still had a wonderfull week.
    
    ED