| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 1984.1 | Alps trek | RUTILE::MACFADYEN | Let's go out and have some fun | Mon Jul 01 1991 08:57 | 19 |
| I would go for a smaller inner than your suggestion as I don't actually
believe there's such a thing as a gear that's "too small", but what do
I know, I'm not much of a theorist on these matters. Since what you
suggest for this year differs only in the size of the inner ring, why
not go for a 32 instead of a 34? I'd keep the 52 and 14, sometimes it's
fun to pedal on descents.
As for brakes, I'm extremely happy with the Shimano 105SC (dual pivot)
brakes. There seems to be so much stopping power that I've really
enjoyed descents, knowing that I can brake late confidently. I note
that one of Raleigh's touring bikes, the Tourlite, comes equipped with
Shimano dual-pivot brakes rather than the more usual cantilevers.
I can't offer you any route advice other than to note that you seem to
have chosen some of the highest roads available in the Alps. What would
Mr Spock say to that? "Most illogical.", I bet.
Rod
|
| 1984.2 | better from the north? | SHALOT::ELLIS | John Lee Ellis - assembly required | Mon Jul 01 1991 09:35 | 49 |
|
Rod,
First, these are great passes, and a very nice area to bike in.
There is supposedly more traffic in August and in the ski season
than when I did most of these (September), but it should still be
tolerable.
No comment on the brakes & gearing - you should be in pretty good
shape with those.
> Izoard: This has *gotta* be easier from the North
> Restefond/Bonnette:
> I suspect that it is harder from the North but what a
> descent - 2600m = 1.6 miles !
Izoard is easier from the north, yes. Bonnette may be harder from
the north (I've done it both ways), but it is quite tolerable - just
a long climb over quite a narrow lane (sheep-path, really - kind of like
having a piece of the Alps near Inverness).
> Telegraph-Galibier: 1� of a mile vertical kinda makes me nervous.
> I've only every done Galibier from Briancon
I've only done it from the Frejus road (i.e., from the north), and
it is a very tight switchback, but, again, not terrible grades - just
a fair amount of work.
> Iseran: Like Galibier this is a bit tall and I reckon the climb
> out of Val D'Isere could be painful.
At least 'til a few years ago, there was an unlighted tunnel in the
Val d'Is�re area - they may have added lighting now. I remember the
climb out of Val d'Isere as being strenuous.
Looks like you are doing a lot of the �Route des Alpes� which is
a fine choice. How do you plan to descend from the Col de la Bonnette
to the coast? N202? (Are you going to the coast?)
If you find yourself with time on your hands (say, you're a � day
ahead of schedule), you could stretch the route after Bonnette
by turning left up to St. Martin/V�subie and coming down through the
gorges there, to the N202, I believe, at Plan/Var.
A further nice side-trip is right from the N202 up to St. Paul de Vence
and through the gorges there down to the Grasse/Valbonne area.
Bonne route!
-john
|
| 1984.3 | | CIMNET::MJOHNSON | Matt Johnson | Mon Jul 01 1991 10:56 | 7 |
| Galibier from the North, as you've planned, is a more "classic" climb.
It's also the only climb that I've encountered that's more than 2000m
bottom-to-top. The descent on the South towards Alpe d'Huez would also
be more entertaining, as it's milder and has fewer turns.
Croix du Fer from the South is a long grind up a valley all the way to
the top. It's pretty, though.
|
| 1984.4 | Shimano are too soft. | PAKORA::GGOODMAN | Number 1 in a field of 1 | Tue Jul 02 1991 01:42 | 16 |
|
Rod,
About the brakes. The Shimano brakeset itself works great, a lot
more feel to it than the Campag set up. However, my only concern is
with the pads. I find the rubber to be very soft, which makes it wear
down quickly with use and almost useless in the rain. I prefer the
harder Specialized pads (can't remember what they're exactly called),
but have had to trim them down to size since they were too wide to fit
in. I certainly would like the comfort of knowing that that was what
was stopping me at that hairpin corner.
Mind you, last Sunday I don't seem to remember touching the brakes
all that much...
Graham.
|
| 1984.5 | Heading for the hills | SIEVAX::CROWTHER | Pike | Tue Jul 02 1991 18:25 | 11 |
| Back to the Alps. I'm out there later on the 19th. Can anyone
tell me the gradient and distance of L'Alpe-d'Huez? I'm hoping my
current bike with 42T front 28T rear will get me up. Is this
ratio going to blow my knees away? Also, being a low lander, will
oxygen be a problem nearing the top? Perhaps I should take a bottle
of oxgen as well as a bottle of water :-)
BTW Rod - are we going to see you out there?
Nigel.
|
| 1984.6 | | RUTILE::MACFADYEN | Let's go out and have some fun | Wed Jul 03 1991 05:14 | 20 |
| Hi Nigel, I've got just the note for you. Go and read 278.45 and
surrounding replies in CASEE::CYCLE_RACING. It tells you more than you
want to know about Alpe d'Huez! As regards oxygen, since Alpe d'Huez
finishes at 1800m, it shouldn't be a particular problem, though no
doubt one's performance is degraded since the atmosphere's nearly 20%
thinner at that height. I have felt it a bit above 2000m, in the sense
that during a stop at 2100mm I began to feel generally poorly. While
cycling it's hard to separate altitude effects from the overall pain of
cycling up a big hill. I would like to do the Galibier this year, and
since that goes up to about 2600m, I wonder what I'll make of it.
Perhaps some of the participants in this conference who've cycled at
those heights will share their experiences... But what the hell, people
go skiing at much higher altitudes and don't make a big deal out of it.
Yes, you may well see me on Alpe d'Huez, I certainly plan to be there,
and may well come and join the Reading posse at their campsite for a
day or two, if that's feasible.
Rod
|
| 1984.7 | | FILMS::WIDDOWSON | | Wed Jul 03 1991 06:43 | 76 |
| Thanks for the input.
I'm still thinking about routes gear and stuff. It looks as though
the 105SC's with or without special pads (anybody say AZTEC) are for
me. John, how did the work with the drogue shute go ?
I'm going to play a bit with the gear tables before I decide on a 34 or
a 32.
Rod >I can't offer you any route advice other than to note that you seem to
>have chosen some of the highest roads available in the Alps. What would
>Mr Spock say to that? "Most illogical.", I bet.
And this from the guy who sleeps 5 hours and then does 100 miles an the
alps! I tend to choose the biggest hills and I'm not happy unless I'm
crossing hill which are more than 2000m. Its living in this
(relatively) flat country which does it. I miss some of the more
charming lowerr cols that way - which was one of the reasons that I
thought I might try a spin through Chartreuse this year.
John>There is supposedly more traffic in August and in the ski season
>than when I did most of these (September), but it should still be
>tolerable.
My motivation in picking late august rather than Spetember is mostly
one of weather. A couple of years ago I was in the alps and got some
really nasty cold days (they day before we did Bonnette it had been
-9�C) coming off both Galibier and Iseran was in snow. (I got
frost-nip coming of the Cayolle in October as well). The down side is
people, cars (detuned because of the alititude) and finding empty
campsites and hotels. I'll soon find out.
> Bonnette may be harder from
> the north (I've done it both ways), but it is quite tolerable - just
> a long climb over quite a narrow lane (sheep-path, really - kind of like
> having a piece of the Alps near Inverness).
I must try the Applecross route in training then...
> How do you plan to descend from the Col de la Bonnette
> to the coast? N202? (Are you going to the coast?)
The course is pretty fixed from Bonnette carry on down to Isola.
Quick sprint up to Isola 2000 and the col behind (whose name escapes me
right now). Perhaps a brief diversion towards Fous D'allos (If I
havent done these from the north) and the amazing red-rock gorges of
that area. Up over the Col St Martin to the V�subie valley (as you
suggest). Then the Turini (one of my all time favorites), Sospel, col de
Braus to Breil/Roya and back then over either the Brouis to Nice or
Escarene to Menton and the Haut Corniche into Nice. I hope to do the
Gorge de loup with the Valbonne men.
To everyone: Thanks for the inputs on the cols. It is obvious that I
*have* to do Galibier from the north and that I will suffer doing
Glandon with luggage...
On climbing the Alp. I concur with Rod - we have discussed this (to
death) in CYCLE_RACING. On oxygen starvation I have never suffered
above the general level of pain involved in climbing. My climbing
friends say that it tends to become pronounced at heights over 3,500 m.
I do remember:
-Feeling *so* strong when I come down from the hills.
-Noting my heart working *aerobically* at 180 on the last km of
Cayolle (2,300 m?)
-Like an idiot trying to sprint the last 800 m of Bonnette (for
those of you who have done it from the pass up to the car park)
in which it climbs about 100m. I got about 60 yards.....
To all of you going to the Alps (anywhere) this summer. Have fun and
don't kill yourselves on the descents...
rod
|
| 1984.8 | | CIMNET::MJOHNSON | Matt Johnson | Wed Jul 03 1991 09:49 | 2 |
| A long climb is such an out-of-body experience anyway that you won't
notice the altitude.
|
| 1984.9 | look, it's a FEATURE! | SUSHI::KMACDONALD | sushi: not just for breakfast! | Wed Jul 03 1991 10:55 | 7 |
| > A long climb is such an out-of-body experience anyway that you won't
> notice the altitude.
Besides, most biking records are set at high altitudes! Much less air to
slow ya down! You can go for loads of 'personal bests'! :-)
ken
|
| 1984.10 | Those records won't come easy
| ALEXI::MANDRACCIA | | Wed Jul 03 1991 12:48 | 8 |
| While there's less air resistance at altitude there's also less
oxygen. I wouldn't count on setting any records climbing at
altitude or anything else that involves hitting your anaerobic
threshold. All the world class juniors are here in Colorado Springs
in preparation for the Worlds this month and the ones from sea level
are gagging big time. The main complaint seems to be legs are fine
but no air to breathe.
|
| 1984.11 | nice route | SHALOT::ELLIS | John Lee Ellis - assembly required | Wed Jul 03 1991 14:19 | 14 |
|
I've never detected altitude effects in the Alps. Or in the Rockies,
once one is acclimated. (There was a question whether pre-conditioning
was a good idea for the RAAM route, which gets about 10,000 feet on one
pass, but general consensus was "no.")
Isola 2000 and its pass (Col de la Larche, is it? I'm not sure) sounds
great ... also Turini, etc., and the Haute Corniche.
Bonne route, Rod.
-john
PS: Yes, must get out the old drogue chute. :-)
|
| 1984.12 | | BHAJEE::KONRAD | I hoab eam unterkriagt !!! | Fri Jul 05 1991 09:37 | 93 |
| Rod,
I found some data about the passes in one of my cycling guidebooks.
The cols are classified ranging from EASY to VERY DIFFICULT. Time estimates
are for a racing bike and no luggage.
TELEGRAPHE/GALIBIER (north) -
starting point : St.Michel de Maurienne
length : 34 km
altitude difference : 2014m
max.gradient : 13%
difficulty : very difficult
time : 3h
road conditions : good - medium
LAUTARET/GALIBIER (southeast) -
starting point : Brian�on
length : 35 km
altitude difference : 1250m
max.gradient : 12%
difficulty : Lautaret easy, Galibier medium
time : 2:10h
road conditions : good
IZOARD (north) -
starting point : Brian�on
length : 20 km
altitude difference : 1039m
max.gradient : 12%
difficulty : medium
time : 1:30h
road conditions : medium
IZOARD (south) -
starting point : Guillestre
length : 32 km
altitude difference : 1360m
max.gradient : 12%
difficulty : difficult
time : 2h
road conditions : medium - bad
VARS (north) -
starting point : Guillestre
length : 17 km
altitude difference : 1111m
max.gradient : 12%
difficulty : medium
time : 1:30h
road conditions : very good
VARS (south) -
starting point : Barcelonette
length : 30 km
altitude difference : 979m
max.gradient : 12%
difficulty : medium
time : ?
road conditions : good
CAYOLLE (north) -
starting point : Barcelonette
length : 30 km
altitude difference : 1195m
max.gradient : 9%
difficulty : medium
time : 2h
road conditions : medium - bad
CAYOLLE (south) -
starting point : Guillaumes
length : 33 km
altitude difference : 1508m
max.gradient : 10%
difficulty : very difficult
time : 2:30
road conditions : medium - bad
Vercors/Chartreuse is a very nice area for cycling. I've been there
with my touring bike several times, but always with quite a lot of luggage
(complete camping gear) and appropriate gearing. The cols are smaller,
you can select roads without heavy traffic and it's a really beautiful area.
One of my nicest bike tours started in Grenoble, went through the Vercors via
the Col du Rousset, headed towards the Mt. Ventoux, Luberon, Ste Baume, Montagne
des Maures, Canyon du Verdon towards Nice - all the way using really small roads.
I *really* can recommend it.
I retuurened to Grenoble via Italy, coming back
over the Col de la Lombarde (very nice at the Italian side) and then via Cayolle
etc. I can give you more details if you are interested.
Hermann
|
| 1984.13 | Thanks ! | FILMS::WIDDOWSON | | Fri Jul 05 1991 10:46 | 14 |
| Herman,
That's fantastic. Its nice to have ones impressions confirmed. I shall
take your list home and add it to my background info for the holiday.
Given that it calls the Cayolle hard I'd love to know it calls the
Tourmalet!
I used to live in the Ste Baume so I can also recommend it. Also the
the Canyon de Verdon.
As a matter of interest are guidbooks available (in English/French).
rod
|
| 1984.14 | Dialekt, oder wie? | SHALOT::ELLIS | John Lee Ellis - assembly required | Mon Jul 08 1991 11:22 | 8 |
|
Herman,
I also am going to clip out and post your list.
What is your personal name ... bayrisch?
-john
|
| 1984.15 | ...Tourmalet? ouf!... | BHAJEE::KONRAD | I hoab eam unterkriagt !!! | Mon Jul 08 1991 13:18 | 15 |
| > Given that it calls the Cayolle hard I'd love to know it calls the
> Tourmalet!
The Pyrenees are not described in my booklet.
But I agree-Tourmalet is really a very hard climb.
I did it last year, starting with the Col d'Aspin in the morning,
and the Tourmalet at noon - it's steep over a long distance and it was
very hot too plus the traffic was really awful.
> As a matter of interest are guidbooks available (in English/French).
I'm sure there are some - but in Munich, I only get german ones. So
I'm sorry but I can't help you there.
Hermann
|
| 1984.16 | good guess! | BHAJEE::KONRAD | I hoab eam unterkriagt !!! | Mon Jul 08 1991 13:52 | 11 |
| re .14
> What is your personal name ... bayrisch?
You're right, John - it's a mixture of bavarian and austrian
dialect , a quote out of a kind of fun musical which is quite popular
amongst poeple that understand a little bit of bavarian, especially if
they do some mountaineering - but I can't explain the whole
story here, it would be a matter of some more pages.
Hermann
|
| 1984.17 | trip report... | MOVIES::WIDDOWSON | Two pork pies and a Strawberry Yoghurt | Fri Sep 06 1991 10:20 | 141 |
| Well here is a brief description of what I ended up doing. A bit
egomaniacal I know. You may wish to hit next unseen now..
Weather throughout was wonderful. One night's rain but mostly very
very hot (by my standards)- even at altitude (>30�C at 1000m - 85�F at
3400ft)
Where-ever I mention a gradient it is normally my feel for what it was,
not the actuality. I'm sure Robin will fill in the actual details.
The heights are as I remember I dont have an avocet (yet) so I cannot
give the exact climbing for each day
Day 1 (with luggage):
Geneva(350m?), Colmbier(1600ish), (900m), Aravis(1400ish),
Albertville(400m) 132km
A recce for the Megeve Mnt Blanc. Colombier starts immediately hard
(24x25) and then flattens. Last 3.2km (2 miles) are of the `see it all
the way' type. Nice, fast descent. Aravis - hard immediately after La
Clusaz and then getting more and more easy.
Day 2 (with Luggage)
Albertville(400m), Madelaine(2000m), (450m), Glandon(1900),
Allemont (710m) (nr Bourg D'Oisans) 130km
The road from Albertville is now v.v. high speed (in preparation for
the Olympics). Very nice diversion for cyclists tho. Madelaine
starts hard (34x25) then flattens,then goes down hills then hard for
~1km and then `easy' to the top. Glandon is, well, a beast (in fact I
have yet to speak to anyone who does not have nightmarish memories of
either Glandon or Croix-fer from the north). I started up it 12:30
with the sun beating down. 5 hours later (including a 1 hour food and
sleep stop) I got to the top 22km and 1400m higher. The gentle tail
wind had made the heat worse. I stopped frequently on the way up,
managed to get past the stretch at 13% but had to push the bike for 2km
between 3.2 and 1.2 km from the top (not too steep there ~10% but 110km
into the day with luggage I just didn't have the strength). Resolution
made to buy a 30 (which I did manage to do 4 days later and
appreciated). I have no idea what realms of lunacy made me think I
could climb with 30+lbs of luggage on a 34x25... Just as a nice sting
in the tail the descent towards Allemont has been destroyed by a
landslide (just before Allemont La riviere) so you drop to the valley
bottom and climb up to the old road on a series of 12% hairpins
really nice after 120km and 3km climbing... The descent from there is
a dream. 5-8 km of 10% continuous with no nasty bends....
This was easily the hardest day of the trip (and only day two, I must
be mad)
Day3: Rest day.
Day4: (no luggage) Croix fer (2100), (500m), Telegraph (1500?), (1400m)
Galibier (2650m), Lauteret while descending. 170km
This is the Marmotte without the climb to the Alpe at the end. Having
done it, anybody who even contemplates the marmotte needs a series of
sessions with their local shrink. Croix Fer from the south is nice,
with a wondrous (but steep) descent. The drag along the valley to st
Michel is very busy. The Telegraph was unpleasant in fact the woods matt
mentioned only come into play about � way up (this was at about mid-day for
me). It flattens out a lot towards the top.
Galibier `proper' is OK (ish) until you take a hard right and climb out
of the valley. This felt like about 10% (from ~2000m) - at this stage
I needed the 34x25 again (although briefly) then it flattens to a mere
6% (subjective measure) before the last km at 10%, however the last kms
of the climb never hurt so much (perhaps excepting the Bonette).
The drop from Galibier (2650) to Bourg D'oisans (700) is a dream. A
minor `casse-pats' (lit: break-paws) just before the end of the drop.
Day 5 (luggage) Allemont (710m), Lauteret 2000m, Briancon (1200m)
100km
A rest day. Easy climb up lauteret. Nasty unlit tunnels at the bottom
but that's about it. A road to avoid at weekend. 34x21 was quite
adequate with ocassionaly forays to the 42...
Day 6 (luggage) Briancon (1200m), Izoard(2650m?), (1000m), Vars (2000m),
Barcelonette (1100m) 110km
Izoard was nice and easy and is spectacular from the north (I'd never
done that face). Much easier than the south. 34x21 was quite OK.
Nasty drop and another casse-pats out of the casse-deserte. Vars was
in the sun and as Robin has so well written elsewhere this is a bit
tough.
Day 7 (no luggages) Barcelonette (1100m), Cayolle(2300m), (1200?m),
Champs(2100m), (1200m) Allos(2100m), Barcelonette(1100m) 130km
Cayolle from the North is *great* nice easy, most of the climb is at 5%
about � way up you get into the park de La Mercantour which is amazing.
Steep drop off Cayolle but OK roads. The Champs is a pig. High and steep.
Not so much a col as a connection between two steep valleys. The last
few km are steep (9%?) in the blazing sun. The drop is equally unpleasant
900m in 11.5km. Lousy road surface, lots of bends and `cassis' - stream
beds cut into the road. Wooded. Allos was a whole lot easier than I
remembered. Not to steep until the Fou and then aqbout 8% to the top.
Wondrous descent back down to Barcelonette. I was told later that the
other direction for this loop is easier. I am unsure, Champs would be
steeper but shaded. The decent of Allos would be trickier (ditto the
climb). The decent of Cayolle would be wonderful, but one would miss
a whole lot of scenery. The climb of Cayolle is tough from the south.
Day 8: (luggage) Barcelonette (1100m), Bonette (2800m),
St Martin de Vars(200m?) and back up the Vesubie valley (400m) 150km
This was a rest day (rest, carting 14kg up one of the highest roads in
Europe). The climb up Bonette was not too hard, with the exception of the
daft diversion at the top which pull you up the requisite few metres to
make it the highest road in Europe, this is tough (13%?) and using the
30x25 for the first time. The spectacular views at the top really make this
a must (as long as the weather permits), although as Robin points out this
doesn't really count as a real col (the real cols are not tarmaced but are
a `mere' 2,600m.
Nice drop to St Etiene (the decent heading south is much better than that
heading north). Then a long hot drag along the valley.
Day 9. Lantosque (400m) Turini (1600m), Sospel(300km) 85km.
An all time favourite hill of mine. Although only 1600m it starts at about
450m. There are three ways up and I would classify the way I climbed up
(from La bolenne) as the best descent and the climb from Sospel as the best
climb. As it was I took the Monegasque route through Piera Cava and then
down to the Braus (?). Lovely sweeping descent to Sospel.
Day 10. Sospel, Ventimiglia and Nice (bass corniche due to heat).
No hills. 80km.
Other comments:
If I had had tougher tyres I would have done a little loop which starts
going up the Cayolle and then cross country to a col below Bonette.
Ditto, I would have tried the Grand Parpaillon which is `rough but not too
bad' according to reports I got. It finishes in a tunnel; At 2,600 m it is
quite high. It runs sort of parallel to and west to the Vars.
If anybody else wants more details about these hills - I have done all of
them in both directions (except Glandon down and crox-fer up). Contact
me offline. I have more notes from this holiday.
rod
|
| 1984.18 | the OCD - is it for you? | SHALOT::ELLIS | John Lee Ellis - assembly required | Fri Sep 06 1991 10:35 | 14 |
|
...and are you recovered yet, Rod? :-)
Sounds like a very credible effort, with beautiful scenery, as
long as you could keep the sweat out of your eyes. Good going!
A couple days before PBP, we encountered a couple of English cyclists
("Croydon" stitched on their jerseys) in a caf� in the French countryside.
One had come back a couple weeks before from a multi-col tour of the Alps
(including the Stelvio and passes like that), which netted him something
called the OCD - � l'Ordre des Cols Durs � - sounds like you're a candi-
date for that one.
-john
|
| 1984.19 | How about those tunnels? | CIMNET::MJOHNSON | Matt Johnson | Fri Sep 06 1991 11:33 | 3 |
| How'd you like the tunnels coming down the north side of Croix de Fer?
Going up, I thought they were pretty spooky, but at least I was going
slowly. If I had been flying down the mountain I might have crashed~!
|
| 1984.20 | | MOVIES::WIDDOWSON | Two pork pies and a Strawberry Yoghurt | Fri Sep 06 1991 11:59 | 22 |
| >How'd you like the tunnels coming down the north side of Croix de Fer?
>Going up, I thought they were pretty spooky, but at least I was going
>slowly. If I had been flying down the mountain I might have crashed~!
The real long one is lit. Another short one has turned into a bridge
(!) and the other short ones are not toooo bad. Mind you you gotta be
real careful. My technique was to slow right down. Take my shades off
before entering the tunnel, and (believe it) shutting my eyes for less
than one second prior to going in. That way when you go into the dark
you can actually see...
re OCD. I was a member of the british `chapter' a couple of years ago
and I let it slip. The way it worked was that you add up the metres
that you have climbed (ever) in terms of the tops of the cols (so
Croix-fer/Glandon means 4000m) according to various rules (no col which
was approached going down is acceptable, no col more that 7 times a
year and so on). There were medals at various levels (50k, 100k and
250k) with the french version requiring more height. For me the major
advantage was description of cols (I was never one for counting the kms
I've climbed...)
rod
|