Conference noted::bicycle

    This may not be the right place for this but i think a hybrid might be
    the answer to my dilema.  I'm trying to convince my wife to get a new
    bike.  She is riding a 25 yr old dept. store Huffy 5 speed "girls"
    bike.  When we ride together we average about 7 to 8 MPH.  A leisurely
    pace for sure.  I've been trying to convince her that a new bike would
    be more comfortable and go faster but I'm not having any success.  She
    sits nearly vertical on her seat and likes that position.  She has
    ridden my son's mountain bike and complains about the seating position
    and the comfort of the seat.  This may be hopeless but she does like to
    ride and a hybrid bike may give her the comfort she is looking for.  If
    anyone has faced this problem or has any recommendations I'd like to
    hear them.
    
    Earl (who wants to go faster but not ride alone)

    I'm thinking about the same thing, however I may just modify my
    mtn bike to make it easier for the road. A more upright bar, and
    road tires should do the trick. Frame size would be perfect for
    road use, for her.
    Considering how much she'll be riding, and the fact that my
    mtn bike see most of it's use during late fall and winter, it's
    seems to make sense.
    I'm not sure what hybrids you're thinking about, but the seats
    on ones I've seen are not much different that mtn bikes. 
    
    John

    re .1:
    
    Good grief - your wife is MY wife...  had the hardest time getting her
    on a new bike, liked the absolute upright position of her 20-year-old
    Schwinn suburban that weighed at LEAST 45 pounds, and didn't go over 8
    mph...  She also absolutely despises the "mens" frames...
    
    I finally found a decent, cr-mo, properly sized Peugot mixte frame, and
    essentially made up a hybrid by fitting it with high-pressure alloy
    road rims/tires, mountain-style handlebars with stem mounted indexed
    shifters, put on a 28-38-48 biopace triple chainring, etc.  The bike
    works well for her - she finished a 39-mile ride last weekend.
    
    I have, however, been totally unable to get her onto a decent seat -
    didn't like the Vetta gel OR the Spenco (both women's anatomical) she
    insists on keeping the wide, triangular, softly sprung seat which she
    swears is comfortable.  But at the end of any ride over 15-20 miles she
    has a sore bottom.
    
    Drawbacks - its a pain on the bike rack because the mixte frame sits
    funny - the largely upright position causes more wind resistance than
    drop handlebars - there are few hand positions on the handlebars so her
    hands/wrists get tired.
    
    I think its a viable setup, but you can probably find the same thing
    off-the-shelf now.

    The best way to probably get her to notice the difference is to get her
    on a new bike and test ride one. Just get her in the car and tell her
    you are going out to BK or Mickey D's and stop at a local bike shop
    before or after dinner. Then ask the salesman for a test ride on one of
    there city or hybrid bikes. I think she will take it for there. 
    
    Suggestion:
    
         Bridgestone CB-1
         Specialize Hardrock or Cross Road
         Bianchi Mainstreet or Advantage
         Univega Active Trail or Country
    
    All these bikes are about $300 - $380. I am sure there are a lot more
    out there but you have to get her to the shop first.
    
    D. HUEY 
         
         

    re: Earl (who wants to go faster but not ride alone)

    Thanks for all the input.  .3 is your wife named Judy?  They really
    sound like the same person.  She loves that seat with the springs under
    the imitation leather.
    
    I'll try to get her to look at some of the bikes .4 mentioned.  We do a
    lot of BK.
    
    We have talked about tandems before.  I think it's a neat idea.  It's a
    big price difference though.  Also, storage and transportation become
    other problems. We like to camp and we always take our bikes.  Also,
    there are organized rides I would like to get her into but it requires
    transporting the bike.
    
    Earl

    Sounds like  it's  almost time to try a recumbent. That will solve
    the sore seat problem and the sore arm problems, as well as giving
    a more comfortable position.

    If you  look  at a tandem, check out the Counterpoint Opus III. It
    has  an  upright  captain and a recumbent stoker. This is the only
    bike my wife was willing to ride. Anything else hurt too much. Her
    longest ride on a standard bike was about 5 miles, but we just did
    a  week-long  tour  of  the  Blue  Ridge including some very steep
    hills on the Opus.

    If you  are  interested,  we could probably arrange for you to try
    ours (We live in Hudson, MA).

--David
n

    I appreciate the advice and the offer.  However, it's a long drive to
    Ma. from here.  I'm in Texas.  I've looked at tandems in the local bike
    shops but I have not seen the model you mentioned, I'll ask about
    it.
    
    I recently moved here from NH so I'm still learning where things are. 
    I once made a similar offer to someone to ride my bike only to find out
    he lived in Ill.
    
    Thanks, Earl                                      

    re.-1
    
    You can try my brother's bikes. he's in Texas, San Antonio!!!
    
    Bob

    Thanks again.  I should have been more specific.  I'm in Dallas.  San
    Antonio is about as far from me as Philadelphia is from you.  I have
    made that drive many times but it's a bit far to go for a test ride.  I
    do appreciate the offers.  That's one reason I like to participate in this
    notes file.  Besides all the good information, other bikers are always
    willing to help.
                                                                               

    The Counterpoint  is  sold  by one shop in Seattle. I found one we
    could  test ride, and after 10 seconds my wife said we were buying
    one.  So we ordered it from Seattle.

--David

    re .6:
    
    Nope, her name is Pat, but they ARE the same person!
    
    Off the subject, but on tandems...
    
    We were at a great bike ride in Brainerd Minnesota a couple weeks ago. 
    In addition to the 1200 participant rides, they also had a Sunday
    morning tandem ride.  Along with many beautiful standard tandems, there
    was one that had a recombent seat in front for the stoker.  Could this
    have been an Opus?
    
    In any case, the riders were having a ball.  They had a special bag
    on/in/under the back of the stoker's seat/chair/hammock (whatever that
    thing is) that they kept a camcorder in.  Every time I saw her, the
    stoker was pedaling along happily with video camera to her eye - she
    recorded the ride, riders, scenery, etc.
    
    I thought it was a really neat setup!

RE: .12

    Yup, that  was an Opus. It's the only bike that my wife will ride.
    She  can even coast while I pedal, which is useful for not shaking
    the camera.

--David

    Earl,
    
    From what my brother tell's me and the way Texan's do things, a few
    hundred mile trip to go test ride a bike is nothing down there. I'm
    only pulling your chain!!
    
    Bob
    
    p.s. I often end up taking business trips to Dalls, I'll have to look
    you up sometime.

    
    Gosh, to judge from some of the replies here, you'd conclude
    that there are all these bike-shy wives of cyclists around ...
    why don't we ever hear about bike-shy husbands, whose cyclist
    wives are trying to coax them onto the saddle?
    
    (A bicycling-magazine ad has been running recently just to
    that effect, by the way.)
    
    -john

RE: .15

    Since we've gone down two ratholes already, let's try a third:

    We were  on  a  tandem  tour  early this month, and all the tandem
    teams  consisted  of  a  man and a woman, all but one were married
    for  1  -  35  years  (the  others had been living together for 11
    years.)

    In all  cases,  the man was the stronger cyclist. Two of the women
    said  that  when they met their husbands, it was important to them
    that  any  man they get involved with be a strong cyclist. Why did
    they ride tandems? All the women told stories about the men riding
    up  to the top of a hill and waiting for the women, and taking off
    as  soon as the woman arrived at the top of the hill, so the women
    never  got  a  chance  to rest. Even less popular were the men who
    rode  back down the hill and then passed their wives on the uphill
    again.

    I don't  know  of  any  couple  who  both  ride where the woman is
    stronger.  There  are  few enough strong women riders so that they
    can  (and  do)  insist  that  any  man they get involved with be a
    stronger bike rider.

--David

    Look me up anytime.  it's DTN 486-6301 and I live in Plano, north of
    Dallas.
    I have heard real Texans say that travelling a few hundred miles was no
    big deal.
    This is an aside but if you can believe this one;;;
    My father in law loves to travel.  He lives in Denver.  He decided to
    visit his son in Seattle (driving) and pick up Grandpa on the way. 
    Grandpa lives in Mississippi.

    RE: .-2
    
    David, these are nice profiles.  And of course the business about
    the guy waiting at the top of the hill until the woman *almost*
    gets there ... well, it's too true.
    
    It's not necessarily my situation, I'm glad to say: true to your
    account, my female companion is kind of competitive in her chosen
    field (triathlons, now mixed with ultra-distance cycling), and
    it turns out she bounds up hills like a gazelle.  Can't complain. :-)
    
    -john

    a friend of mine is a very active cyclist and belongs to a cycle club.
    He tells me these stories about some of the women in the club that
    trained him for a year to go on a 100 mile bike race with them last
    year. Well he went with them and he also finished the race or tour or
    whatever it was. He never says that women don't know how to ride. They
    ride practically every nite during the summer. Is a 15mph pace a good
    pace to accomplish? that's what he does to stay with them.
    
    He wants me to go, but I'm going to have to work up to this!!!!
    Oh, the other thing is that these nitely rides are usually 20-30miles.
    
    I really have to think about this one. I don't think I'll be able to do
    this on a CB-1!!!!!...........$$$$$$$$$$$????????
    
    Bob 

    I don't NORMALLY make mistakes like not waiting at the top of the hill,
    but I have a couple times turned and gone back down partway to see if
    my wife was all right...  SHE DIDN'T LIKE IT!  I don't do it any more. 
    Now, I just stay with her on the climbs - if nothing else I can provide
    moral support!  I realized that when I ride alone I can go as fast or
    as slow as I feel like - but when I ride with someone like my wife I
    have to adapt to her comfort level and enjoy the ride as something we
    can do together.  
    
    I've also ridden with women who could EASILY drop me in the dust any
    time.  They adapt to my slower pace.  But, I've seen too many women
    cruising at 20+ mph and climbing a WHOLE lot better than I do to ever
    think they can't ride!
    
    BTW:  Even worse is to have your teenage daughter do this to both of
    you!  Both on hills and flats she used to pull ahead and then ride
    in circles until my wife and I caught up!  But, its OK, -50 pounds
    later, and a year of riding - I suggested my daughter go for a "little"
    ride with me...  SHE DOESN'T DO THAT ANY MORE! :^)
    

	Well, since we seem to be deep in a hill-climbing rathole, I'll
	add my 2 cents.  When I ride w/Mark he tends to pull ahead on
	hills for two reasons: first, his gearing is much higher than mine 
	and he *has* to in order to maintain a decent cadence, and second,
	he's just plain stronger than me %^)  Oh well.  I can live with it.
	I'd much rather he just climbs the hill at his pace and I meet him
	at the top (he'll generally do circles in a parking lot or some-
	thing).  I'd feel badly if I messed up his pace by insisting he
	stay with me.

	Sue

    Let's dig this hole a bit deeper shall we...
    
    What is the `polite way' to behave to fellow riders (reagrdless of sex) 
    on hills ?
    
    Does one always wait with them ? If  training does one apologise before
    the climb, work past them and wait at the tops ?  Drop back prior to
    the hill and then try to catch them during the clib ?
    
    Is the technique the same for short sharp climbs and long drags ?
    
    Having been on both sides of this several times my personal technique
    is to climb with anyone over a long climb but for a short one just
    blast up it and then slow down at the top (*not* wait).  But thereagain
    maybe I've driven hundreds of cyclists mad in my ignorance..

>    What is the `polite way' to behave to fellow riders (reagrdless of sex) 
>    on hills ?
    
Depends on your relationship with the other rider, I guess. With some, I just
tell 'em my gears won't let me ride up slowly (often true, if I end up spinning 
@ 11 RPM in my lowest, I'm dead...). On the other hand, with my wife I try to
avoid routes with big hills (she's the one with the mtn. bike, go figure) so
I can ride with her. Then with some other companions, I'll ride just enough
ahead to make 'em think they can catch me and put on a few extra coals, at 
which time I speed up a little :-).... The last technique works good with 
obnoxious canines, too :-).

The above instances only apply on those rare occasions when I'm a stronger 
rider than my companion....
                                   ken

    re .-1
    Sounds about right.
    
    For those parents of young ones out there, have the stronger rider
    pull the kid(s) in a trailer. That's a great equalizer.
    
    John

    
    So at last night's Thursday "fast" ride, I ended up with one
    person (f.) who gave me a good workout on the flats, but was
    not as fast on the hills.�  Since this was a training ride, 
    I felt obliged to cause myself real discomfort on the hills,
    and did so, then waited for her... and then tried to keep a good
    enough pace for her on the flats.
    
    Esp. on long climbs, it is difficult to go more slowly than
    your "comfort zone" -- I have at times tried to stay back, and
    at other times just pushed onward, then waited at the top.
    
    Cyclists (and there are MANY) who are better than I am on hills
    are welcome to shoot ahead - ideally just enough that I get 
    a good workout trying to keep up.
    
    �Actually, I'm sure it was the bike.  :-)

    Especially if they can get ahead just enough to break the wind?
    
    :-)

    Getting back to the subject at hand, the bike I bought about 10 weeks
    ago was referred to as a "hybrid" ... also a "cross-sport".  It's a
    Schwinn Mirada.  Looks like a lightweight mountain bike with semi-nobby
    tires and a slightly-higher-than-straight handlebar.  It's got 18
    speeds ... geared somewhere between an ATB and a road bike.  Reasonably
    lightweight, but durable enough for some dirt road riding.  In a
    nutshell, I love it.  It cost me $250, and is worth every penny (to me
    at least).
    
    At times on the road I wish I had a higher gear (or two), especially on
    the flats, 'cause I like going fast when I can.  But at the end of a
    ride, when I'm pedalling up the steep hill back to my house in the
    lowest gear on the bike, I'm real happy it's got a lower gear ratio
    than your average street bike.  It handles rough roads and park trails
    real well, doesn't make me work *too* hard, and generally is a joy on
    hilly roads, which is where I do most of my riding.
    
    Somehow I get the impression however that they're NOT for the serious
    rider ... too much of a compromise in either direction I suppose.
    
    From the way this note digressed, I wonder if I'm the only one in here
    besides the base noter who's got this type of bike.
    
    ... Bob
    

    
    -.27
    
    Well I guess that I would also fit into the "hybrid" category...  I
    took an older 10 speed and converted it into a 15 speed by replacing
    the crank...  I now have a 28-38-48 on the front and a 14-28 on the
    back...  This gives me close to mountain bike gearing on a road bike 
    frame...
    
    I live in Mont Vernon, NH. and the new crank makes a big difference
    to me...  I frequently climb steep grades for extended periods...  
    Some terrain warrants a bike with a different setup...  I also feel 
    that the bike manufacturers should stop pushing "race" bikes to the 
    general public.  More people would take up biking if the hills didn't
    hurt so much...   
    
    A little pain goes a long way.. :-)
    
    jim o.
    
    
     
    
    jim o.  
    
    
    
    
    
      

    I also recently purchased my first bike since childhood and got a
    hybrid. I read magazines, buyers guides, and brochures, and I test rode
    more than a dozen bikes of all varieties, at nearly as many bike shops. 
    I made up my mind that a hybrid would best serve my riding plans, so I 
    concentrated on which brand/component level would satisfy my personal
    tastes and budget (<$500). In my travels, I happened on a 1990 KHS
    Cross Sport with Shimano Deore LX/DX components (21 speeds) on sale as
    a leftover for $450. Seemed like a good value compared to what I had
    seen, so I bought it.
    
    So far, I'm very pleased, except I hope my butt and hands get
    conditioned soon. On rides longer than 10 miles or so, my hands tend 
    to go numb, and it doesn't feel as though the seat is doing my prostate
    any good. Does it get any less painful as you get in shape and more
    used to bicycle riding? At 46, perhaps I should be looking for a nice
    wide/soft easychair type saddle.
    
    Al

    RE: .29:  Sounds like your position is suspect.  Saddle too high or
    low?  More padding on the hands, like gloves?  Change position a bit
    while riding.  That's what I like about the dropped bars on a road
    bike and dislike about my ATB, I have more hand posiiton on the
    road bike.
    
    46 is not an excuse for easychair saddles....  :-)
    
    ed

    RE .29
    
    I've had the same two problems you have ... my hands going numb and
    wishing my butt would too ... :^(
    
    As to the hands, I discovered that it was caused by "death-gripping",
    which was probably just because it'd been so long since I rode that I
    wasn't very confident in my ability and tended to take it out on the
    handgrips.  As my confidence has improved I've relaxed a bit and
    noticed the problem doesn't happen as often (except on the longer
    rides).  Somewhere in here I read about some "gel" gloves that I plan
    to try out to see if that eliminates the problem altogether.  As to the
    other problem, I noticed that after the first few rides my body adapted
    to the bike seat and it isn't a problem anymore.  Someone suggested
    that I purchase a pair of those padded riding shorts, but with a body
    like mine I just can't see myself in those tight, stretchy things ... ;^)
    
    I agree with the last entry about age.  I'm just a few years behind
    you, and one of my best friends is 57 and rides 50 miles without even
    breaking a good sweat.  It's all a matter of practice (and hence, body
    conditioning).
    
    ... Bob
    

    A good pairt of shorts and a good dose of chammy cream cures a lot of
    ills (if you havn't tried it, you'll be suprised).  However as has been
    mentioned a good position and a bit of practice is even more
    important.

	I added an additional bar that attaches to the
	end of the grips on my mtn bike.  This gives me
	lots of additional had positions.

	I also have the gel gloves...I picked them up
	from Performance, a catalog place in NC.

	If you are shy (or are built like me) you have
	several choices on the butt department...

	1.  wear sweats or shorts over the tight padded
	    pants...

	2.  There are "touring shorts" that look like
	    normal shorts, but have a heavily padded
	    area....

	-dick

    
    Spenco has a gel grip that is nicely cushined, I only have the numb
    hand problem with my MTB. I never have a problem with the road bikes
    drop bars. One key to avoid or delay the hand numbness is to keep 
    changing positions, or occasionaly drop one hand and shake it well.
    I have replaced my handle bars with a Scott AT4 which allows for 
    different positions for grip, makes the difference.
    As for butt soarness. Spenco also has an air seat cover, which you
    pump air into to get the amount of cush that you like, and
    priced reasonably.
    
    BTW, Bicycling magazines recommends, putting your hand behind your
    back and open/close it a few times as a cure for numbness. 
    
    Shaw 
    Bob, if you don't like the lycra shorts, there are also paded mountain
    bike shorts available. 
    But consider in a couple of months it will be too cold to ride just in 
    shorts. 

    Hi Shaw ... I figured I'd find some familiar faces in here ... ;^)
    
    It ain't that I don't like 'em, but can you imagine *me* in lycra ... I
    mean, I enjoy riding 127A along the coast, but I fear some fisherman
    would be coming after me with a harpoon or something ... ;^) ;^)
    
    In a coupla months, we'll both have better things to do to keep our leg
    muscles in shape.  BTW - do they make snow tires for bicycles ???
    
    ... Bob (who's hoping all this cycling pays off come ski season)
    

    
    RE:-1 Heh, heh...
    
    Hi Bob, I had these 2.25 tyres made by Ritchy (I forgot the model now)
    I road my bike in the snow on those with no problem. I am not sure
    if there are snow specific tyres or not.  Re: legs, I did start 
    cycling as a means for getting in shape for other sports, but now
    I just love cycling for the sake of cycling. Although through a long
    ride there is always that idiot that pulls out infront of you, while
    they have the stop sign, I have not let my rides become hectic. I 
    find it a real good theraphy. I have on many occassions cancelled 
    other apointments so I can ride my bike instead. 
    Good to see you've joined the club. But please don't exercise too hard
    I have a hard time catching up to you when you're not in shape!
    
    Shaw

re:      <<< Note 1967.27 by BOOKS::BAILEYB "Let my inspiration flow ..." >>>

�    From the way this note digressed, I wonder if I'm the only one in here
�    besides the base noter who's got this type of bike.
    
Nope, you're not the only one. I've had a Univega hyrbid for about a year 
now. I love it. I especially like it on hills, too. I may not get anywhere 
very fast but I do get there. It's also a great bike to take camping when
I ride mostly on dirt roads. Unfortunately, at the moment the poor beast
is sitting in the basement while I once again recover from knee surgery.
The good news is that all the cycling has paid off as far as recovery goes.
I was actually walking the day after surgery and I have almost gotten full
motion back after just 2 days. I figure I'll be able to take a trial run
on the wind trainer in a couple more days, although I think the doctor
would prefer I wait until the bandages are off.

Jenna

    Re: .37
    
    Which UNIVEGA do you have?  UNIVEGA consistently seems to "over" group
    their bikes, meaning they put higher level components on the bike
    compared to bikes in the price range.  I have been recommending to
    everyone interested in a beginners bike to look at the UNIVEGAs.
    
    Do you do any distances greater than 30-35 miles?  One guy couldn't
    believe I go 35-50 miles on my hybrid.  He thinks I should be crippled
    upon completion (not enough hand positions, riding angles, etc.).  I
    just wondered if you've experienced any of these problems.

re:        <<< Note 1967.38 by KYOA::BOYLE "Dirty Jobs Done Dirt Cheap" >>>

�    Which UNIVEGA do you have?  UNIVEGA consistently seems to "over" group

I have the Univega Via Charisma (sp). I paid $380 for it last year. I've
been very happy with it.
    
�    Do you do any distances greater than 30-35 miles?  One guy couldn't
�    believe I go 35-50 miles on my hybrid.  He thinks I should be crippled
�    upon completion (not enough hand positions, riding angles, etc.).  I
�    just wondered if you've experienced any of these problems.

Yup, I've done up to 45 miles on several occasions. Haven't had any major
problems with those distances. But after about 3 hours on a bike just
about everything starts to hurt. I don't know if that would be any different
on a road bike tho'. My major problem was with my hands falling asleep. I
added those neat little extender bars which has helped a lot. I'm also going
to get some new gloves as mine have just about had it.

Jenna