Conference noted::bicycle

    
    This was mentioned a while back in another note.  I have had
    great luck with mine - using them with Ultegra and Dura-Ace
    pedals.  They start out a bit stiff, but don't let that fool you.
    They smoothe out and act quite nicely over time.
    
    Saturday I rode with a friend who is an equipment guru, and is
    in a position to try out a lot of things.  He is selling his
    Time system (while keeping his Campagnolo clipless), but thinks
    the Look/ARC system is quite acceptable - simple, usable, etc.
    
    I don't mean to start a Time-versus-Look war.  But the Look ARC
    set-up seems to work pretty well.
    
    -john

    Most people think the differances between the TIME and the most other
    Look style systems is just the rotation benefits. But that is only part
    of the story. With the new Look ARC cleats, you now get the rotational
    benefit just like the TIME, but did you know the TIME system also have
    the following that the Look system does not have:
    
    1. Biomechanical Positioning - The distance between your soles of 
       your TIME shoes and pedal axle is only 9.5 mm on the racing model
       and 13 mm on the Sport and Crit model. Of course this is only if
       you use the TIME shoes. The Look system is about 20 mm from the
       axle. If you use other shoes with the TIME pedals, you will lose
       this edge. The closer you are to the axle, the more efficient you will
       be. 
    
    2. The TIME also have a latheral movement of 7mm. Not other system has
       this function. This means the pedal will adjust to you pedaling
       stances latherally depending on the width of your hips.
    
    3. The release movement is also more biomechnical in cas of panic
       release. Instead of just a side twisting motion. It is a side upward
       twisting motion. Since most people pull up and out in a panic, the
       TIME system releases in that motion.
    
    4. Premature Release - To prevent premature release, the TIME system
       has a little plastic pivot in the center of the pedals. When the
       back part of the cleat is in, the pivot is wedge against the front
       to prevent premature release during hills and sprints.
    
    5. Metals cleats - They last longer.
    
    These are some of the reasons why TIME system is more expensive and why
    they still are selling.
    
    Dave
    
    
      
    
      
    
    
     

    
     One other advatage of the TIME system... After the shoes wear out
    you can use them for boat anchors :-).
    
      Chip

    I got a pair of ARC cleats for myself and Nancy also got a pair.  She
    figures that she needed it because of knee problems.  After riding on
    them for a few weeks, I really like them.  Of course, I feel relatively
    anchored in them.  Nancy, on the other hand, hated them, she felt like
    her feet where all over the pedals causing more knee pains because she
    kept fighting the movement.  Even after increasing the tension of the
    spring on the Dure-Ace pedals did not get rid of the problem.  She's
    now back to the black cleat...
    
    Eric

    re:.1
    
    I did a search on titles for "look" and "cleat" and did not see a title
    that focused on the ARC cleat.  I did not do "arc" for fear that it
    would list a whole host of strange items (do you know how many bike
    notes have "LOOKing for ....").  Could you point me to the one that
    went into the ARC cleat issue.
    
    Thanks (just the replies so far tell me its worth a try)
    
    mike

    Re: 3
    
    60 grams (pair) difference between the Boat anchor Time Racing Model 
    verse Look Arc carbon. That is about .13 lbs. Compare to the Shimano 
    Dura Ace system, there is about 20 grams difference.   
                                     
    Fill up you water bottle with 1.5 oz less water and anchors away :-)
    
    Dave
    
    
    

    The first year version of the Time shoes were incredibly heavy, these
    must be the ones that Chip had.  Since then the shoes have been quite
    light and well made.  The pedals themselves are in the same
    neighborhood as the LOOK and Shimano, lighter than the Mavic.  I think
    that like Avocet computers, their reputation is still suffering from
    mistakes made on their first release but have been long since
    corrected.

    The only thing that is heavy is the rear cleat/cam.  It's made out of a
    solid piece of metal.  I saw (in the latest Colorado Cyclist catalog)
    that they are making new rear cam which weighs about 1/3 the current
    model.  I want to see one in person before I buy it.  I switched to
    TIME after pulling out of a LOOK pedal in a sprint.  I think that the
    plastic LOOK cleats wear out too quickly and should be replaced much
    sooner then most people actually do.  The solid metal TIME cleat could
    literally go 10 years without wearing out.

    Re: the side to side movement - It's not a smooth movement where your
    foot moves left and right with each stroke, it's more like your feet
    find the position they like best and stay there.  No matter how I clip
    into the pedals I find that both of my feet will move to the right.  I
    don't know why but if I wiggle my feet to a new position and ride for a
    while they will be right back where they were.

    I don't have bad knees, haven't had problems with the LOOK or with
    normal clips and straps but I've found that I get fewer leg cramps on
    long rides after switching to the TIME.  I assumed that the allowed
    movement allowed my muscles from tensing up as much.  I assume that
    this would be true with any of the pedals that allow movement.

    From a strictly technical view, the Mavic look interesting to me. 
    They allow you to set the amount of movement you want, both in and out,
    on each pedal.  From 0 to 5 degrees each way.  I believe that the new
    Shimano pedals (maybe just the Dura-Ace at first) will have similar
    option.

     Yup, Bat's right... I had the original's. I know they've come along
    way since their initial offerings. I  really did like them, but
    discovered the other options were more to my liking. I didn't 
    like being locked into their shoe either (and didn't want to mess
    with adapters). The TITAN MAGNESIUM and the EQUIPE MAGNESIUM have
    caught my interest along with the Chrono Carbon and Equipe Carbon
    shoes.
    
     I'll bet they're still pricy though. Anyone have info on them as
    well as relating any experience.
    
     I'm running LOOK Carbon Pros right now on my TT trick and the road
    bike (still have my TIME's on my beater - your right Bat, I'll have to
    leave these to someone in my will). and love 'em. Bat's also right
    about the cleats. I should replace mine (I have two pair in the tool
    box but am extremely lazy about these things). I guess when I pull 
    out of one in a sprint for the finish I'll relace them too...
    
      Chip

    For us uninformed, what are the telltale signs of needing to replace
    cleats?

    In my case it was when I could no longer pull up on my look pedals
    because the plasitc tongue on top of the cleat had broken.  It all
    just made BMB '89 a little tougher.  Now I replace them when those
    parts get near 1/8th inch.
    
    ed

    I replaced mine recently when I bought a pair of pedals that came with
    cleats. I hadn't really looked at the old cleats closely, and I was
    amazed at the wear that had taken place in less than a season. The
    tongue at the front was about 2mm thick compared with about 6mm on the
    new cleats. It seems to me that there is potential for a nesty accident
    if you broke a worn cleat, since it would break just when you needed it
    most.
    
    
    Rod

     I generally wait until I achieve 100% rotation...

    
    
      I don't remember where it was but I remember seeing an add for
    aluminum Look cleats.  It was probably a small add somewhere in one
    of my old Velo-news.  It hit me as being a good idea.  So somebody
    somewhere does make a metal look cleat.
    
    John C.
    

    O'neil's in Worcester has the Time Magnesium and Titan for prices 
    substantially better than mail order.  I believe the Titan was $225
    versus $275! mail order.  The Titan is one nice looking pedal, hard
    to resist picking up the box.
    
    (Comes complete with real popcorn packaging too)
    
    steve

    RE: .-2
    
    John, if you (or anyone) runs across ads, etc., for a metal Look cleat 
    let us know. I would be interested.
    
    -john

    I think the metal Look cleats are advertised in Bicycling magazine
    every month.  I don't think these are ARC, however.
    
    Ken
    

    Another way to judge wear on a Look cleat is when the bolt head is
    exposed.  When the cleat is new the three bolts are within the
    indentation (or whatever you call it... the bolt hole).  As the plastic
    wears the metal bolts will become exposed.  They will begin to score
    the surface of the pedal.

    My big problem is that I'm too cheap.  $12 for about 25 cents worth of
    plastic is a bit outrageous

     Agreed... Is plastic turning semi-precious???
    
        Chip

    
    When a market reaches saturation for "new" products (new accessories
    to an existing product included), Business's answer has often been
    to "improve" an existing component so that the operating costs are
    greater (thus providing an ongoing revenue stream).
    
    The straight-edge razor is probably a good example.  The razor and
    strop was succeeded by the Safety Razor with disposable blades (which
    wore out), and then by disposable razors.
    
    Similarly with cleated biking shoes and cleats.  I've *never* been
    able to wear out an old-style cleat (the shoes went first). It's 
    another story with plastic clipless cleats.  I guess Time (so savvy
    in many ways) somehow slipped up and hasn't caught on to this planned
    obsolescence. :-(
    
    -john

>                 <<< Note 1925.17 by OXNARD::KLEE "Ken Lee" >>>
>                           -< aluminum Look cleats >-
>
>    I think the metal Look cleats are advertised in Bicycling magazine
>    every month.  I don't think these are ARC, however.
>    
>    Ken

I would love to try out some metal cleats.  I agree with Bat...$12 for $0.25 
of material is a little steep!

I checked out the last couple issues of Bicycling Magazine and couldn't find 
the ad.      

    
    
      Well,  I went searching for the ad this weekend and couldn't find it
    anywhere.  I'll keep looking and put it in here If I can find it.
    
    John C.
    

    I've seen the ad as well.  Pretty sure it was in Winning, I don't get
    Bicycling and I'm pretty sure it wasn't Velo News.  I've let my
    subscription run out (which I would encourage every cycle racing fan to
    do) so it must be at least a couple months ago.

Here it is...


	Foster Cleats Enterprises

	The cleat tht won't wear out!

	Specify order...
			Campy C-Record *
			LOOK Rotational
			Sampson 902
                        Reg. LOOK
                        Mavic

	Life Time Guarantee

	Light weight 1 1/8 oz each.

	Price $24.95 (Credit Card or personal check)
	Plus   $2.50 USA shipping ($5 outside US)
	Delivery 1-2 weeks * Campy $35.00
	
	Foster Cleats Ent.
	4301 Short St.
	Belleville, IL 62223

	or phone (618) 235-1344

     Anyone gonna try these puppies???
    
       Chip

    I'm curious...
    
    What are they made of?
    
    Eric

     Good question... I was talking with Mr. Norm Flye last night. He
    said something that made a lot of sense... "I'd rather sink $12.00
    into plastic cleats than sink $170.00 into new pedals because of
    metal cleats wearing out my Carbon Pros..."
    
     Wiser words never spoken...
    
    
       Chip

I bought the new cams several weeks ago.  They are nice!  They certainly feel
like 1/3 the weight of the old ones, but I didn't measure them on a scale.  The
downside (as always) is cost.  $9.95 EACH.

Barry

    Branford Bike carries alum/mag cleats for Look pedals.  $29.00 I think.
    
    Mike