Conference noted::bicycle

>    I have a 19 inch Univega Gran Tourismo with a Suntour BL Derailer.
>    The frame is Chrome Moly Steel Tubing. It is 15 Speed.
>    
>    I am looking at some other bikes in shops as a potential trade
>    
>    I have been looking at a Univega Hybrid (Touring,Mtn. Bike), a 
>    Trek Mtn. Bike, and a Terry Touring Bike (Smaller Front Wheel)
>    as potential options.
>    
>    Since I have been out of the bike riding scene for some time
>    I would like some information from all of you about comparable 
>    derailers. The suntour seems to fit the need, but I am unsure of
>    quality when concerned with a trade to another derailer. Can anyone
>    give me some help bout derailers, frames and bike type above and 
>    limitations.

The first question is why you want to trade it in.

If the old bike is....

  the wrong size:      a good reason to trade it in.
  worn out:            a pretty good reason to trade it in
                          but it might be nice to keep it as a spare
  shifting poorly:     not a reason to trade it in
                          you ought to make sure that it is adjusted right
                          If the derailleur is shot, you could replace it
                          at 1/15th the cost of the bike.
  a touring bike when you wanted a Mountain bike:
                       OK, but you might still want to ride the
                          roads later.  Keep it as a spare.

I don't remember details about the gran turismo.
If it has steel rims, then it might be worth trading up.


I'm intrigued by your suggestion of the Terry.  Do you have
a different physique?

What is your "ape" factor?  Compare your height with your fingertip
to fingertip wingspan.  If your arms are more than an inch shorter,
then you have a negative ape factor.  If your span is more than
an inch or two longer, then you have a positive ape factor.

Terry bikes are designed for people who need a frame with less distance
between the seat and the handlebars, usually those with a negative ape
factor.  The goal of the small wheel is to make it possible to
design a frame with a shorter top tube.

The small wheel of the Terry is not an asset, it is a liability;
tires will be tougher to find.


The derailleur is an important part of the the bike, but it is not
the most important.  Getting the correct size frame, and a bike
suited to your purposes is more important than the brand of derailleur.

You asked about Suntour.  Most likely the choice these days is between
Suntour and Shimano.  Suntour's top of the line is not quite
as good as Shimano's top of the line, but the distinction is muddied
for the "pretty good" quality.  The biggest problem is that they come out
with a completely incompatable system every two years.  Suntour doesn't
create enforced obsolescence.

-Jeff Bell

    re: .1
    
    Jeff has some very good points:
    
    1) Terry bikes will give you a problem regarding the front wheel.  You
    will have trouble finding tires, tubes and rims .  You will also have 
    to carry 2 spares.
    
    2) Don't concentrate on the quality of the derailleur so much as the
    frame (fit and quality).
    
    3) Decide how you are going to use the bike.  Offroad? Touring? city?
    day rides?  Make your choice in bike types from this decision.  Beware
    of hybrids.  They can do both offroad and onroad but do neither well.
    
    4) Finally, you have to decide on your budget.  If you don't have much
    $ to spend and you like the bike that you have, you may be satisfied
    with an overall/tuning of the old bike.  If you are decided to buy a 
    bike, I would keep the old one for bad weather/run errands/whatever.  
    If you don't want/can't keep 2 bikes, you will be better off selling 
    the old one privately.
    
    Chelmsford Cyclery ((508)256-1528) sells Trek Mtn bikes for $280-$1200
    and Terry touring bikes from $400 and up.
    
    Eric

    
    
    Thanks for the input. Some things I did not tell you as I was quick to
    get the input for my friend Patti. She has never really ridden the bike
    but was interested in trading the bike in because the frame is too big.
    
    Based on your input. She has decided to do the following:
    
    1. Put a different stem on the seat to adust for the distance to the
       handle bars.
    2. Equip the bike with Top Bar Brake Extensions
    3. Adjust the shift levers to the top for easy reach.
    
    She was somewhat undecided about to part with the bike as she likes the
    bike. For the time being she will use it, and look into mountain bikes
    as she lives in Colorado. Any input on Mountain Bikes may be
    appreciated. 
    
    Thanks again.
    
    Dave.
    

    Putting extension (or "safety") brake levers on is almost always a
    bad  idea.  You  can't  get  much  leverage when you pull on those
    levers,  and may of them will pop out of position in a panic stop.
    You also have to have the brakes adjusted better, as you have less
    cable travel available.

    Stem mounted  shift  levers  are  also  somewhat hazardous if they
    protrude above the handlebars you can hit them on your way off the
    bike  in  an  accident,  or fall forward onto them with your eyes.
    I've  seen reports of both kinds of accident, but I don't know how
    common they are.

    Perhaps she  should  but  mountain bike or the old English touring
    bike  sytle  handlebars  on.  That  way she could always reach the
    brakes,  and  she could also put on thumb shifters. The problem is
    that   she  wouldn't  have  the  option  of  riding  in  different
    positions,  but  it  sounds like she was just going to ride on the
    tops of the bars anyway.

    In general,  trying  to force a bike to fit doesn't work well. You
    end  up  with  a  strange  setup that may not handle well, and may
    still  not  fit  right. Then you find that it's not comfortable to
    ride,  so  you  stop riding. If she's really interested in riding,
    and  can  afford  it, I would recommend going to a good bike store
    and  getting  a  bike  that fits right. (The Fit Kit is a big help
    here.)

--David

    
    Ah, .-1 cleared up my misunderstanding of .-2.
    
    It sounded to me like she must have aero bars and that you were
    planning to use a Flite Control type set-up, putting the brakes
    and shifters out on the bar.
    
    Silly me.  Naturally it didn't seem likely you'd want stem shifters
    or the safety-brake-levers.  I agree with .-1 that that's not the
    best idea.  A good fit evaluation (and a good fit) is the best way.
    
    If she's used to a mountain bike, she should be prepared to adjust
    her position (and outlook of what "feels" right) on a road bike.
    So, again, a fit-evaluation by knowledgeable people would help.
    
    -john

>    Thanks for the input. Some things I did not tell you as I was quick to
>    get the input for my friend Patti. She has never really ridden the bike
>    but was interested in trading the bike in because the frame is too big.
>...
>    1. Put a different stem on the seat to adust for the distance to the
>       handle bars.
>    2. Equip the bike with Top Bar Brake Extensions
>    3. Adjust the shift levers to the top for easy reach.

Somehow I suspected that the Terry wasn't for you.  (Although
some men ride Terrys if they have body proportions that don't
fit a normal bike.)

How tall is she?

Some of the things that you plan will help, but might not solve
the basic fitting problems.

Changing the seatpost might help, and changing the handlebar stem
might help too.  It might not be enough.

I think that putting top bar brake extension is a BAD idea.
These only make it harder to stop correctly.  The top lever
bottoms out before the real brake lever is more than 2/3 of the way,
so if you are in a real panic stop you'll have to change hand positions
in the midst of braking.  They are junk.

Assume you mean that you are moving the shifters to the stem.
Moving to stem mounted shift levers probably isn't necessary,
and just adds another dangerous protuberance.  If she can't
reach the down tube shifters, then the bike is probably the wrong
size to start with.

In my earlier response I pointed out that the small wheel makes
life more difficult.  A mis-sized bike is much worse.

At least have her test ride one.

My girlfriend is 5'2" and has a Terry.
As soon as she got on it, she said, "Ahh, much better."

-Jeff Bell

For short people, especially women, the Terrys are very good.
My wife (5'0") has one and loves it.  Usually we ride together,
so I carry the 700C tube and she carries the 24".  FWIW, depending
on the frame size, some of the Terrys have full size front tires.

barry

    I agree with all the replies towards the 3 points to making a bike that
    doesn't fit...fit.
    
    I hassle any friends that have brake lever extensions TO REMOVE THEM
    asap so they don't rely on them.  I once saw a friend that had just
    fallen being run over by another bike because the rider couldn't stop
    fast enough when using those D*MN extentions...
    
    Eric

>    I hassle any friends that have brake lever extensions TO REMOVE THEM

Actually, I think there's a whole note someplace in here devoted to 
discussing suicide levers.....

Our shop used to have a policy of removing them for anyone, for free, 
regardless of where they got the bike. Sometimes we even asked the 
owner's permission :-).
                                 ken

    if your girl friend does an emergency stop and jumps into 
    the top tube it may hurt . my advice is 1 to 2 inch clearace
    between the inseam and top tube. if your bike does not feel
    like it disapears when your riding it you probably will not
    enjoy riding so spend some money on a good bike. If you can
    afford to spend. Other wise do not waste money on something
    that will not be used.