Conference noted::bicycle

    Deore EX doesn't make you go faster.  It just breaks less, which
    may be enough of a virtue that you might consider buying it.
    The only other potential performance difference is that it weighs
    a teeny bit less -- that would only matter when you carried the bike.
    (Certainly not on downhills!)  
    
    So I hate to say it, but it sounds like your problem lies in the
    other 80%.  Of course, performance is only rarely a reason why 
    people buy $1000+ bikes....
    
    
    MATT

    One area you could investigate is tires, many of the lower prices
    mountain bikes do not have equivalent rubber.  A few slips in loose
    rock up a hill can be a portion of you problem.  Go with some ground
    control or equal type of tire if you haven't done so already.
    
    steve

    I agree with .1.... it's probably the other 80%. Borrow one of those
    $1000 bikes some time and see. Deore EX componentry isn't going to make
    any difference.... unless you are missing shifts now because your
    stuff is worn out. The $1000 bikes may weigh a bit less (3-4lbs max), 
    but 4lbs is only 2% of 200 lbs .  
    The biggest weight savings that you could obtain with your bike
    would probably be in the wheels (rim/hub/tire/tube), handlebars, 
    and seatpost..... not in the Deore EX components. 
    Make sure that the bike fits you properly, so that you are getting 
    the maximum efficiency for your work. Watch your cadence, watch your
    style, put in extra workouts, and (finally) find some way of objectively 
    measuring your progress (while you have been improving, they may also
    have been improving... by equal amounts so as to make you think that
    it is the bike).  Remember that a pro could probably beat you (and me) 
    on a Huffy... no matter what bike you have.   
    

    If you have the money to spend on a new bike get a deore XT, but if you
    do not have the extra cash, a 400LX bike should last you for a while,
    keep an eye on the following things and you should be able to keep up
    to your friends: tire pressure, lubricate hubs, freewheels and head
    set, make sure that the bike fits you properly; any bike shop will
    size you up, please use cycling pants and perhaps some hard sole
    cycling shoes. Keep an eye on Bicycling magazine, they usually have
    some good tips for fresh riders. Have fun riding and keep an eye for
    pot holes .
    
    H.B.
    
    

   

  Some hints  on going faster that your freinds won't share with you,
at least the ones who always beat you up the hills. The ideas on tires,and
 conditioning, and position are right on. Bicycling  has a number
of excelent articles on position for road bikes. It all works for MTbs
also except the part about the drops. So what are you wearing for shoes, your
tennies I bet. Buy some bicycle specific shoes right away,Its like getting
a 1000 dollar frame upgrade for free, well maybe 50 bucks. Second of all
if you replace anything on your bike, let it be the frame. Those low end 
specilized bikes are wonderful entry vehicles to see if you like bikes but my
they wear on you after a while. So lets put this in order now, work on you first
, it take about two years of training to develope good bike muscles, then get 
decent shoes, it only takes a few min at the store, check those tires, I like 
ground control extremesin the rear, and hardpacks in the front. By the way if
you get real serious about riding the decision about what to do with your 
bike will be real easy once it just falls to pecies at about 600 miles.

                                            Ray   

Ray-

>>Buy some bicycle specific shoes right away,Its like getting
>>a 1000 dollar frame upgrade for free, well maybe 50 bucks. 

	I confess that I never sprang for bike shoes before, just used 
	sneakers or stiff-soled old low rises w/toe straps.

	Do bike shoes really make such a dramatic difference?  How?  Or is it
	the bike-shoe-and-special-pedal-connection combination?

		Dave

    
    
    >>>	Do bike shoes really make such a dramatic difference?  How?
    
    Yes. Bike shoes make a HUGE difference; at least on a road bike.  I've
    never used bike shoes on a mtn bike yet, but there is no doubt that
    they make a big difference on my road bike.
    
    How - Well, since the sole of a bike shoe is not flexible, there is
    virtually no loss of power on your downstroke due to arch bend.  As for
    the other parts of the rotation... upstroke, push and pull,... the bike
    shoe is secured in a cleat or binding so it won't slip out.
    
    Good luck.
    
    	-John

    
    At the risk of diverging from this note's topic, yes, there
    are marked differences when you use bike-oriented shoes.
    The differences are both in Comfort and Performance.
    
    Years ago, I switched from running shoes (soft sole) to
    soccer (football) shoes (hard sole), then later to cleated
    bike shoes.  Now it's cleated clipless.  With each change,
    I noticed a big improvement.  True biking shoes allowed me
    to go all day, day after day, in much more comfort, and
    more consistent performance, especially at high speeds or
    on prolonged climbs (mountains).  Even on tour, I take cleated
    bike shoes - that's how much comfort they buy me.  (But my
    tours tend to be 10-15 hours per day on the road.)
    
    Here's a run-down of the advantages:
    
    - With biking shoes (cleated, cleated/clipless, or touring
      shoes) you transmit more energy to the pedal - less is
      absorbed (wasted) by the sole cushioning.
    
    - Even a harder-soled street shoe will let the pedals eat
      into your feet after a while.  Biking shoes (with their
      wooden or Lexan/Polycarbonate stiff soles) don't transmit
      that "bite".
    
    - Clipless pedalling systems (as countless people have avowed) 
      eliminate the bite on the metatarsils from toe-straps.
    
    - Cleats keep you positioned on/in the pedal, so your feet don't
      slide or slip - lends a more secure feeling, more confidence,
      and higher performance.
    
    So there you have it.  For mountain biking, touring shoes
    or the new ATB clipless systems are both good, even in the
    awfullest (muddiest) off-road conditions.
    
    -john

    and .8 comes from a guy who doesn't use gloves ...
    
    Hi, John.
    
    ed

    
    Touch�.  But I'm thinking of applying one of those pseudo-tan
    products in convincing elipses atop my hands, so that people
    will at least *think* I bike (or golf?!).
    
    -john

    Another vote for cleated (or clipless) cycling shoes - they are really
    great.  I found them more important than cycling shorts (this is from
    someone who did his first double century in cutoffs) but I wouldn't
    be without either nowadays.

    I haven't switched to clipless, but have not had any discomfort
    with the cleats & toe straps; I don't think the difference would
    be as dramatic as switching to cleats from touring shoes.

    I don't use gloves either (except in winter :-)

    - Jim

      Dave, (.6)

          Bike shoes are undoubtedly the most important piece of cycling apparel
      to make you go fast. As you can tell from the other responses the 
      road guys figured this out a long time ago. I use the Look system on
      my road bikes and just love them, but the original question was about
      those silly mountain bikes now wasn't it. There are a number of 
      different things that you need to look for in a suitable mountain bike
      shoe that you don't have to bother with with road shoes. 

      Remembering the wise old road saying "ride like the wind walk like 
      a duck" you might already have figured out the first major difference
      is that a good off road shoe is a good walking shoe. This means that
      the off road shoe actually bends in one direction rather well, and is
      rigid when you step down on the pedal. It also means that the shoe should
       be comfortable to walk in. A real problem here in Colorado is that the  
      mountains are big and steeep and sometimes, well almost never, even I have
      to get off  :-). This means that the shoe needs to have good traction and
      that it can't come off your foot. The 90 model shoes from almost everyone
      had insufficient heel cups and folks were stepping right out of their
      shoes when they walked. The other important thing is that they fit well
      in the clips and hold on to the pedal so that you can spin.  While you're
      at  it make sure that you have the right size toe clips on your bike, if 
      you don't have size ten feet or above they are wrong because every 
      mountain bike I've ever seen comes with large clips. Pretty tough
      to imagine that person who buys that 17 inch frame having size tens
       but that's the clip size that will be on there. I am currently using a
      pair of Vitorria MTB shoes that other than have neon colors on them are
     perfect. They are drilled for cleats, and I use these little metal ones
      that were part of the package that the Colorado Cyclist was selling. 
     You can walk and run in these shoes, and I have considered getting
      a second pair and putting my Look cleats on them, just so when I get
      off the road bike I don't have to fall down. These really are their
      shoes that have had cleated soles put on them. By the way if you were
     asking about shoes for a road bike the other notes had good advice on
      them. One last item, these touring or MTB shoes wear out. Not like you
      think they would however. My last pair went away by the internal webbing
      breaking down. There is no visible wear on the soles or on the shoes, but
      they aren't as stiff as a pair of old tennis shoes. Caught me by suprise,
      I looked all over my bike to find the cracks in the frame that were
      making it feel so mushy, but it was just mushy shoes


             keep spinnin  Ray  

    Next to my bike sox and bike handkerchief, I'd say that my bike shoes
    are the best $$ I've spent on off-bike purchases.
    							� �
    							 �
                                                        \_/
    Actually, I'd give up the shorts, gloves, shirts....everything but the
    helmet and the sweat band...before I'd give up the shoes.
    No question about it, the feet will admit defeet on any ride before
    anything else will.....and the proper shoes will help put that moment
    off the longest.        
    
    					=-=-=-=-=-=-g=-=-=-=-=-=-=
                                                 

re. .6

Hi, Dave,

Here's another vote for cycling shoes. I bought a pair of Avocet 20s about 8 or
9 years ago. About the only problem with them is that they won't wear out. I
keep looking at all the really great new shoes coming out and wishing I could
in good conscience get a pair! They really do make a substantial difference.

At first, I was a little wary of being so firmly ensconced in the pedals, but I
have never yet come across a probelm in getting my foot out, The main thing is
to keep the toe straps fastened to a reasonable degree. I mean, for example,
making sure that they are looser when you're riding in traffic or off-road. Too
bad that the dirt trails don't have warning signs so you could have time to
loosen your toe straps before falling over! However, when blasting along an
open road, good cycling shoes can make a substantial difference to the amount
you can both push and pull the pedals.

I am now at the point where I wear them even if only going a few kilometres!

Cheers,
Tim

re           <<< Note 1754.13 by CSG002::MILLER "Custer had it coming" >>>
>                     -< Head and Toes, and away he goes!! >-

>    Actually, I'd give up the shorts, gloves, shirts....everything but the
>    helmet and the sweat band...before I'd give up the shoes.

	Well, I think you'd look pretty damned silly riding around 
like that (-:

	R	{back again}