Conference noted::bicycle

    	Well, I'll jump into this.
    
    	What is you definition of a serious cyclist?
    
    	July in Massachusetts, New York, and Pennsylvania will
    	undoubtedly be hot and humid. That means lots of fluids.
    
    	July 4th weekend will bring out a lot of traffic. That
    	means lots of crazies on the road.
    
    	If the distance is 600 miles, I'd personally plan on doing
    	90 or 100 miles a day. Of course, before I left on the trip,
    	I would ride a couple of back-to-back 90 or 100 mile days
    	to see how I did and how I felt. It always helps me to have
    	some idea of what kind of shape I'm in.
    
    	Enough for now.
    
    	Scott

    I have not driven US 20 for several years but my recollection of it
    is that it's the road the kids use to avoid paying the tolls on the
    turnpike, so there's a lot of fast traffic on it. It is also a cement road
    (bump every 20 feet).  I think it also has a lot of strip malls.
    
    I went to Cleveland using the bikecentennial route that goes west from
    Ticonderoga to Lake Ontario.  That's probably farther north than you
    want to go.
    
    I'll see if I can find the number of a few friends in New York,
    they might be able to give you pointers.
    
    IMHO, the fact that you have to ask whether 150 a day is too much
    means that it probably is unless you will know exactly where you
    plan to stop and eat along the way.  It does not leave time for
    anything but riding, eating and sleeping.  Of course, if you're
    all terrific athletes, it might be easy (but if you were terrific
    athletes you'd already be biking 150 miles a day :-))
    80 to 100 is usually a lot for an inexperienced group but it is doable.
    Bad weather will make even this more challenging.
    
    ed

    There is a Rt (88 maybe?) that runs parallell to US 20 now.  It's
    an Interstate.  So you only have the local traffic on Route 20 now.
    No toll on 88.  I used to drive straight thru on 88, only getting
    off on Route 20 to frequent a Burger King or stop for gas.  Ed is
    right about the strip malls.  US 20 also hits lots of downtowns,
    but I think you will find that with alot of these small highways.
    
    If you plan on 150 miles a day, I would think you would have to
    plan for 12 hours of riding a day.  Even though you aren't planning
    on site seeing, it might be nice to be able to sit down and relax
    during lunch, etc.  I'd plan closer to 80-100.
    
    	-Nancy

    How's this for a circular definition:  A serious bicyclist is one who
    could make such a trip in four days.
    
    Seriously, though, I only mentioned 4 days (150 miles per) because it
    fits so well into my vacation schedule (leave on Saturday, arrive the
    day before the 4th).  Adding an additonal day or two (or three) is
    certainly an option.  I don't think any of the participants have ridden
    600 miles in the past 10 years, much less in under a week (I know that
    I haven't).  HOWEVER, I think we are all capable, given sufficent
    preparation.  That's the rub though, it's pretty easy to sit in my
    office and say I'm going to train enough through the winter and spring
    to be able to pull this off - doing it is quite another.  For that
    reason, we have agreed that we are only going to attempt this if we
    can pass a minimum set of tests before the ride.  So far, our ideas
    for tests are:  3 consecutive day centuries, 2 consective 150 mile
    rides, and a double century followed by a century.  All of these would
    be done on various weekends before the ride.
    
    Our plans for off-season training are nautilus, lifecycles, and weekend
    rides.  As spring approaches, more riding and less lifecycling. 
    Details remain to be worked out, but I hope to get some ideas from this
    notesfile.
    
    I've never heard of the bikecentennial route, but I will certainly
    check it out.  I'm willing to trade off some more miles for a safer
    route - but only to a point.
    
    Is anyone familiar with US route 6 through PA?  I notice that it's
    one of those roads marked with the dashed, scenic route, indicator
    which I've generally found to be decent biking roads.  Next trip back
    that way is Thanksgiving, perhaps I'll investigate it out first.
    
    Thanks for the input.
    
    -steve

Sorry but I had to laugh a bit at your question.  150 miles is a long way! 
Plus 150 four days in a row has got to be Tough.  Even 100 miles six days in a
row is no piece of cake.

I used to be an upstate New Yorker and did the route 20 trip from Lafayette to
Albany many a times (home town Ithaca, NY), switched to I88 once it was open at
least half way.  I seem to remember a few hills, enough to make 150 mile days a
real challenge.  It's just a thought but you might want to see if there are
frontage roads along the Erie canal that would have to be flat.  And then when
you got out towards Buffalo head south.

    Re .5 (home town Ithaca, NY)
    
    Wow, I never realized people were actually _from_ there.  I thought
    Ithace was just a place for college kids to hang out for 4 years.
    
    	-Nancy (with 5 years of living on the East Hill)
    

Rt. 20 through NY is very hilly, at least from Albany to I-81.  Before I-88 
was finished, I used this section as an alternative to the NY Throwaway. 
I remember many small towns, located at the bottoms of valleys, with speed 
traps assisted by gravity.   And after each town was a big hill to climb 
until you dropped into the next town.  150 miles of this will put you in 
the hospital.

In spite of that, I would like to join you!  Every year my wife and I drive 
to Warren Ohio for the 4th, and this is a nice alternative.  However, plan 
on 80-100 max.  Central and western Penn has some monstro-hills too.

Given your description of your fellow riders' conditions, this seems like 
a very long trip.  Yes, you may plan on working out all winter to get in 
shape, but that is a recipie for spring burnout.  Unless you are big in 
the dedication department, you might want to lower your sights a little.
Even moving the trip to Labor Day will help as it will give you two more 
months to train, and better weather to boot.

Chris Spear
dtn 225-5275

    I used to live in Cazenovia on US 20 southeast of Syracuse and ride
    to Skaneateles on US 20.  It took several times before it
    became fun on that 35 mile segment.  From Albany to Auburn on US 20
    is a tough day on a bicycle.  Depending on where you are going you might
    take a route southwest from Hamilton and go through Ithaca to 17
    and go south of the finger lakes.  It is a pretty area to ride in.

    Back in '73 I finished a cross-country cycling tour in Burlington,
    VT. Our route there took us across RT. 6 through PA and near my
    hometown outside Scranton. From Factoryville, PA, we headed north
    on RT 11 to Binghamton, NY, then north on RT. 7 to just outside
    of Albany, I believe.
    
    Here are my memories: 
    
    Rt.6 from the Ohio border becomes VERY HILLY immediately south of
    Erie and continues that way pretty much all the way across PA. In
    spite of this, or because of it, PA was one of the most beautiful
    states we crossed. But HILLY. I can honestly say that PA was nearly
    as difficult as any of the Rockies states. Rt. 6 takes you through
    some of the most rural areas you'll find as well as through countless
    small towns and county seats, farming country, and from Towanda
    to Factoryville it winds mercilessly along and up and down the BIG
    hills embracing the Susquehanna River. Keep in mind also that the
    prevailing winds will be from the southwest all the way. The road
    surface will be failrly good in most places, but, to my knowledge, 
    there is no Interstate in the area -- it's a very isolated part of 
    the state, meaning the roads can sometimes be awful. That is, all 
    the heavy truck traffic travels on the main highway -- RT 6 -- since 
    there is no interstate to carry the load.
    
    RT 7 north to NY state is about as different from RT 6 as can be.
    The land there is the same, but because RT 11 occupies the bed of
    an old railroad, the grades are very gentle, as are the curves.
    However, most of it is concrete, as I recall it, and since RT 11
    does parallel an interstate (I-81), it carries little traffic except
    local stuff, and hasn't received much upgrading since I-81 went
    in back in the '60s I guess. Still, a beautiful and comfortable ride
    -- and a relief after RT 6. 
    
    Then it's back to the hills on RT 7 northeast from Binghamton.
    Beautiful country again, opening up into those broad, gentler hills
    south of the Adirondaks (sp?).
    
    No question, you'll enjoy this ride.  But I have to agree that 150
    / day is ambitious on this terrain. I'd be happy with 100.
    
    Would be happy to talk with you about these routes. Feel free to
    call me at DTN 2643765.
    
    Ken            

    That sounds like a fun trip...

    If you can complete the fitness tests you described then a ride like
    that will be primarily mental rather than physical; however, distances
    on the order of 150 miles over challanging terrain will be difficult,
    particularly if this will be your first season of serious cycling.

    I do know of cyclists who their first season completed rides like BMB,
    so it is doable given the motivation. (And they weren't all athlete
    animals either.)  But burnout is a possiblity, where it seems like all
    you've done all spring is ride your bike.

    Probably the best approach is to plan on it and see how your training
    progresses.  You may want to ride some of the Brevets put on by the
    people running BMB or similar rides, though this will require getting
    near to Boston for some of them.  It's possible to learn a lot by
    riding such events.

    - Jim

    Check with   the   Transportation   departments  (or  chambers  of
    commerce)  of the states involved. Massachusetts and New Hampshire
    each  produce  bicyclists maps which show what they consider to be
    the  best  routes. By and large, their selections are good. A year
    ago   the   maps   were   free  from  the  state's  department  of
    transportation.  

--David

    Thanks for the all descriptions and advice on distance per day.
    
    I think the best advice was given a reply or two back - plan on
    something ambitious, then see how the training progress and
    reevalute as the date gets closer.
    
    As for joining us - please, do so, the more the merrier, at least
    to a point.  If anyone is interested, send me mail, and I'll generate
    an interest list for periodic updates.
    
    -steve

re: Note 1337.11 

Massachusetts no longer has any more of the Mass Bicycle Map nor are 
they producing anymore as of this time.

    Re Boston Montreal Boston... see notes 517 and 1021.

    The so-called Brevets or qualifier rides would be good fitness
    tests for the calibre ride you're planning.  Also, signing up for them
    would provide extra motivation to keep your training on schedule :-)

    Though BMB is billed as a sort of ultramarathon event sometimes, it isn't
    really, there is no riding all night, hallucinating and guzzling Ultra
    Energy.  There are rides like that but I have no direct experience with
    them.

    It's more like 4 good training days back to back, there's very little
    riding in the dark, mostly just in the early AM when you start.

    Charlie says he'll be putting the event on again this year.

    If you decide to get in touch with him via snail mail, I don't know if he
    is using the Burlington PO box any more.  I believe his current EMAIL
    address is DECWRL::"[email protected]" of you'd prefer that.

    - Jim

    
>    Though BMB is billed as a sort of ultramarathon event sometimes, it isn't
>    really, there is no riding all night, hallucinating and guzzling Ultra
>    Energy.  
    
     Yes, I was so disappointed with that aspect (of BMB'88) - no real
     hallucinations, although some of the color combinations people were
     wearing and riding came close... :-)
    
     For more info on randonneur-riding (ultramarathon), hallucinations,
     nutrition and all, the PBP write-up I've been reading from the 
     International Randonneurs is interesting.  Maybe someone (Ed?) up
     there has a copy.  It sounds, though, even at 150 miles per day, that 
     you will avoid a lot of these problems.
    
    	-john

    maybe you guys didn't ride all night, but some of us were slowed down
    a little -- busted look cleat, 5 flats, ...
    
    Hallucinations?
    
    from the back o' the pack,
    ed

    This is one ardous trip.  You can choose to go through the hills/
    moutains of both New York and Pennsylvania (don't forget you have
    the Bershires) or you can lengthen the trip and level it out a bit.  I
    am familiar with the overall terrain, but the Rt 6 in PA part.  
    
    Route 20 from my memory is not pleasant with a lot of traffic.  Rt 5
    in NY is another alternative and it goes through the Syracuse area and
    has both hills and traffic.  Rt 7 from north of Albany to Binghamton
    has some hills, towns, and nice scenery.  I drive that often and
    while not level, it looks reasonable.  Rt 7 goes into Binghamton, NY.
    
    From Binghamton you can follow the Chemung River Valley using roads
    parallel to Rt 17 (4 lane - no bikes) to West of Corning.  At this 
    point the mountains run North South and you neither have to go further
    north to go around the edge of the lakes or go over them.  The best 
    bike road would be RT17 because of the graded inclines, but no bikes.
    You could go south to Williamsport (again, some bad hills and trucks)
    and take PA RT 225 to Johnstown, but I am not sure how much that
    buys you because you still have to go over more hills.
    
    Good luck.  I think it would be a good goal to complete the trip and
    take some extra time and enjoy the trip.