Conference noted::bicycle

    I've seen the country side of France (because I lived there in Toulouse
    for 3 months and took advantage of it), but from a car window and
    by walking around (I was hiking up in the French Alps for a week
    and loved every second of my stay there, I was with a French family
    on a exchange program).
    
    One suggestion would be to ride on parts of the Tour de Fran�e circuit.
    Or ride around the Bordeax (my spelling is awfull) area, there is
    a lot of good country side there.  Better yet ride over (in, around,
    to) Carcasone (again my spelling to not good) which is a village
    that is sorrounded by a castle wall with the castle inside with
    the village.
    
    Overall I think that the best country side is in the southern part
    of France and also on the Eastern side (near Germany).  You could
    go climb those hills (mountains) and go into the Pirynees (I give
    up, I can't remember how to spell these names), these are the France
    and Spain border, and go to Andora, which is a little country in
    the mountains that is owned by France and Spain jointly.
    
    7-10 days isn't much time to go and tour around France and Spain,
    but like you said, it's a bicycle trip.
    
    I don't know anything about Ireland, I've only been to London.
    
    Hope you find this helpfull,
    
    Matt

    re .0	I don't know of any training diets that emphasize white
    wine and brie, but you should probably get used to it by doing your
    extended spring time ride on what you plan to consume in europe.
    I *CAN* vouch for draught Guiness as a valuable source of energy,
    but don't consume too much of it.  Remember too that in France (all
    of continental europe, in fact) they drive on the right, just like
    some of the US.  In England and most of the British Isles they drive
    on the left.  It always seems to me that in Ireland they drive kinda
    down the middle.

    	On a more serious note, contact the CTC for recommendations.
     Some of their guide books are available at Lincoln guide service,
    CTC address has been posted before in this conference.
    
    	Reg
    

    I went  to  Ireland  a year ago. One member of our group was quite
    slow,  so  our  longest  day  was  30  miles,  with 22 being about
    average.  This  was  fast enough to see a lot of beautiful country
    side  and  lovely  small towns. I strongly recommend biking there.
    Everyone was helpful, and the drivers were polite.

    We flew into Shannon, stopped in the tourist office there to get a
    B+B  reservation  for that night and a book of "approved" B+B's in
    Ireland. We spent the first night in Limerick, and then went south
    west  around  the  Dingle  peninsula,  and then around the Ring of
    Kerry,  ending  in  Kerry.  We  rented a car for a day to drive to
    Blarney  castle (and to kiss the Blarney stone), and then took the
    train to Limerick.

Preperations:

    I ordered  a  complete  set  (5  maps)  of  1/2 inch/ mile maps of
    Ireland  from  a  place  in  California (I can get the name if you
    want),  and when we got to the tourist office at Shannon we bought
    a list of B+Bs (There are two such books, one contains pictures of
    the  B+Bs,  the  other  has  a longer list of them.) Since we were
    there before prime tourist season (We were there in early June) we
    never had a problem riding up to a B+B around 5 or 6 and finding a
    room.

    We flew  Aer  Lingus.  They were a bit confused on the ground, and
    wonderful  in  the  air,  I  recommend them.) A few tricks: It was
    $100  cheaper  per  person  to  buy  tickets  before  the  end  of
    February.  We  got boxes from another airline and packed the Bikes
    at  the  airport.  Bring  lots  of  strong  tape,  and  some heavy
    cardboard.  Make  rolls of the cardboard as compression members to
    protect delicate parts of the bike. You can leave the wheels on in
    these  boxes,  but remove the pedals (you can put them back in the
    cranks  pointing  in  so they don't bounce around in your luggage)
    and  lower  the seat and lower and turn the handlebars. You can no
    longer  store  your  box  in  "left luggage" as they are afraid of
    bombs,  but everyone leaves their box when they arrive and pick up
    one  when  they leave. Why this is safer than getting your own box
    back is beyond me.

    B+Bs are  the  obvious  place to stay. They are a lot cheaper than
    hotels (often less than half the price) and much more common. They
    are also a lot more fun. There were three of us, and we wanted two
    rooms.  One place didn't want to give us two rooms (they charge by
    the person, not the room), so we went across the street and had no
    problem.  One  B+B  wouldn't  allow an unmarried couple to share a
    room.  The  charged about 9 Irish pounds/night. We stayed in a few
    unaproved  B+Bs  which  were  a little cheaper, but not noticeably
    different.

    Once you  get  out of Limerick there are almost no bike stores, so
    bring whatever spares you're going to need.

    We found  lots of little shops with excellent pottery, tweeds, and
    sweaters, almost all of which would ship stuff back to the States.

    If you  have  any  more questions give me a call (DTN 226-6097). I
    was  thinking  of organizing a small (2-8 people) trip to Scotland
    this summer, but I could be convinced to go to a different part of
    Ireland than I went to last time.

--David

    What's a 'B+B'?

    re .4	B_ed and B_reakfast.  *NOT* a full hotel, often a guest
    house, i.e. within someone's home.
    
    	Reg
    
    [Wanna know what a B+M is too ?]

    
    I recommend Ireland for a first bike tour. There's no language barrier,
    the friendliness of the people is real, the closely spaced towns
    and B&Bs make finding accomodations simple.
    
    High points of my own two-week trip in '83 were the Dingle Peninsula
    (not to be missed--head out to Slea Head from the town of Dingle),
    and the bicylce paths along the Killarney Lakes.
    
    Picking a route is easy. Just bicycle along the west coast and you
    can't go wrong. Kerry is extremely lush and beautiful. As you go
    north it gets more barren and windy. 
    
    B&Bs are definitely the place to stay. I recommend the ``Let's Go
    Guide to England and Ireland'' as well.
    
    When we went in 83 we had beautiful T-shirt weather. They've had
    some very wet summers since. So, it's a bit of a gamble. Make sure
    you have good, breathable raingear. Also, polypro glove liners to
    wear under your biking gloves and some sort of waterproof cover
    for your shoes would be a good idea.
    
    Taking your bike over will be simple. Just get the big bike boxes
    available at airports. Check on their availability ahead of time.
    
    If you go to Dublin, take a bus or rent a car to Glendalough. It's
    a very beautiful pair of lakes in two valleys in the Wicklow Mountains.
    Then you can easily take the train to the West Coast. We started
    in Killarney and headed north to Galway City, then bicycled back
    to Shannon for the return.
    
    Have a wonderful trip!
    

    So Reg is part Irish after all. Bet the Guinness made your head
    spin faster than your legs!
    
    Come over to Ireland . It's great cycling country, despite the
    uncertain weather. Anyway you will never hear an Irishman refer
    to a wet day , merely a"soft" day, thank God, and in truth that
    is as bad as it will ever be.
    
    If you have any difficulty at all with maps, just mail me at DUB01
    and I will forward them to you.
    
    The west coast is beautiful. Previous reply's were spot on. Dingle
    is beautiful. Killarney is full of tourists ! You could try Clare
    which is the next county north of Kerry. It has some very unusual
    limestone formations which make for beautiful scenery.
    
    David,
          since you have been west you really should try Wicklow in
    the east. If you fly into Dublin , Wicklow is just south of it.
    If you could come in mid June you could take part in a great 200km
    which zigzag's through (andover) the Wicklow mountains. The view's
    and the effort required is breathtaking ! It goes right by Glendalough
    , mentioned in the previous reply. (The placename means the valley
    of the two lakes).   And don't hire a car.... what are Digital Offices
    for if it's not to find someone to show you the locality.
    
    Come to Ireland . You won't regret it. Last time I went cycling
    to France , it rained solid for the first week. I got sunburnt cycling
    the last 90 miles home in Ireland !
    
    John

    Hey, what happen'd to France?
    It's a beautiful country too, you know.  Yes, I'll agree about how
    if you go to England there is no language problem, but come on,
    give me a break.  You can always try learning French.  I took three
    years of it in High School and by now I have forgotten some of it.
    But when I get the letters from my friends over there, most to all
    of my French does come back to me.
    
    Enough with the language.  In the southern  and eastern part of
    Franch you get the chateaux et castles et caves that you are able
    to go climbing into with a guide to see the stalactites and
    stalagmites.  Some of these caves are long as one to two miles long.
     There was one that I had gone to where we had to climb (they had
    stairs that went down) down a long ways and then at the bottom of
    the hole in the mountain, we took a boat (small) ride down a stream
    that was inside the mountain.  At times we had to flatten ourselves
    down on the bottom of the boat to get through.  It was a lot of
    fun and the different shapes that the stalactites and -mites leave
    are very interesting.
    
    
    Here's a comment to .5:
    
    	Yea, what's a B+M  (B_ed and M_otel?). 
    	(and what's 'Down with TLAs'?)
    
    	Matt  

    After a buildup like that, where do I sign up for the tour?
    
    dave

    
    	re .7	Well, isn't *EVERYONE* at least part Irish ?
    
    	re .9	"Down with TLAs" ?
    
    			
    
    
    			T_hree L_etter A_cronyms  
    
    

    Scotland is another possibility if you decide to go to Great Britan;
    when I was there a few years ago I did not have time to do it on a
    bike, and really regret it.  The highlands are breathtaking in the
    summer...  I didn't encounter any rain at all (lots of morning fog tho),
    this was early July.

    My next vacation trip across the water will involve cycling though.
    I'd like to learn enough speaking French to get around France; right
    now I can only read it.

    - Jim

    There are organized bicycle tours around most countries in Europe,
    and France is no exception.  Some tours provide bicycles, baggage
    transportation, food, wine, lodging, wine, guides, food, and wine.
    The Bordeaux and Burgundy regions are especially well suited to
    bicycle touring.  I read two accounts this year in the Boston Globe
    of organized bicycle tours in France.
    
    Hint:  they ain't cheap.
    
    But as they say in France, ca va sans dire!
    
    Mac.

    Northern Spain is another wonderful place to cycle. The people are
    warm and friendly, the scenery looks like Northern California, the
    villages are very attractive (particularly in the Basque areas of
    northwest Spain), the prices are reasonable, the weather is great,
    the beer is excellent etc., etc. 
    
    The roads, by the way, are good to excellent. The Spanish are great
    believers in switchbacking in their mountain roads, so you can climb
    high in the Pyrenees without doing the really steep climbing that
    you would do on the French side of the mountains.
    
    In two different vacations I've traveled from Northwest Spain to
    Northeast Spain on a touring bike. Believe me, it is a wonderful
    part of the world, and ideal for bike touring.
    
    Patrick

    What about Britanny... A lovely corne of France, I spent 3 weeks
    cycling there a couple of years back. The diet of wine and brie
    is amply supplemented by the superb sea food.
    
    As for speaking French nobody could be worse than moi and we got
    by O.K. and the locals were all very friendly.The coastal areas 
    are nice rugged in the north, good beaches in the south.  On my
    trip we camped, it means carrying a bit more gear, but every town
    has at least one camp site, and if you get stuck the farmers let
    you stay in a field! 
    
    Getting there, well I went from England by ferry, the bike was free.
    Weather very British but in three weeks it only rained in the day-time
    once and that was a bad summer.
    
    * warning* I've just returned from spending the new year in Paris,
    I wouldn't recommend it for a cycling holiday the drivers aren't
    as conscientious as those in Brittany but a Japanese cyclist I met
    seemed to be enjoying himself!!!
    
    	Bon anee    Mark

    Maureen (note 502)
    
    Have you made any plans for a summer bike trip?  I too think
    these tours that go from inn to inn with all the comforts look
    wonderful.  The price certainly does put me off though.  I 
    have two catalogs -- one from Country Cycling Tours, based in
    New York, and the other from the Canadian Butterfield and Robinson
    company, Biking and Walking Trips in Europe.  The latter is a
    beautiful booklet which would be useful if one wanted to plan
    one's own itinerary.
    
    The Cambridge Center for Adult Education in their spring
    catalog describes a Jim Goldberg trip through Ireland.
    The date is Aug. 20 - Sept. 5, and the cost is $1600.
    
    If you are interested, you may want to attend a Tuesday
    evening program -- April 19 -- with slides and stories
    on touring the British Isles and Ireland by bicycle.
    Preceding that 7:30 meeting will be an introductory meeting
    of those interested in the August trip; tea and scones 
    included for the earlier get-together.

    Send mail (WONDER::TYSON) if you would like more information.
    
    Betty Ann

    I was in Ireland for the month of September and I enjoyed every
    place I went.  I thought the only drawback was the three tour buses
    full of American tourists with Camcorders that we came across on
    the Dingle peninsula.  I won't list 4 1/2 weeks of suggestions here,
    but you can call me at DTN 226-2799 if your interested, or e_mail.
    -mark

    Butterfield and Robinson had shows in over 30 cities and now 
    they are coming back to Boston.
    
    A slide presentation on their Biking and Walking Trips in Europe
    is scheduled for Thursday, April 21, at the Hotel Lafayette, Boston,
    at 7:30 p.m.

        Not to spoil anyones fun, but I have traveled fairly extensively
in England, France and Spain and I would recommend to anyone going over
on any trip, but especially a bike tour, to be extra extra careful about
security.  Both the S. France and Spain are famous for thieves (among other
things).  I know someone who biked Paris to Nice, and had all his stuff
stolen, and had to return early.  Even the vets make mistakes.  Last trip
over we had our car robbed while we were on the beach 20 yards away.  You
can't be too careful!!!

good luck

Jon

PS - I am going to do a bike tour in late August through the Bordeaux
region, and onto the Nice.  We are planning on 80-100 miles/day, and
are going to store most of our gear in an accompaning car.

    Contact Vermont Country Cyclers in Waterbury, Vt. (near Stowe).
     They are offering European trips as well.  You may even wish
    to warm up on a weekender in VT.  802-244-5215.  
    Tom
    

    I have a sister that wants to do a bicycle tour of of Ireland, so far
    the American based travel co. want about $2000.00 dollors for a ten
    day trip not including air fare.  I was wondering if there are any 
    England or Ireland based travel co. that would run a less expensive
    bicycle trip in Ireland?  Any help would be apreciated.
    
    
                                         Paul
    

    
    Hmmmm...  $2000??  Depending on the time of year, she could
    just "wing it."  I did Britain End-to-End during the month of
    July (which is in fact vacation-season), and never had trouble
    finding accomodation (B+B) at the end of the day's ride ... 
    except it was a little tricky locating the pensions in Blackburn,
    Greater Manchester Area (through which the route went)... even
    then I did fine.
    
    Cost range?  12 pounds and 8 pounds (the latter in Northern Scotland),
    including breakfast, per night. 
    
    These places are by no means dumps.  B+B owners take great pride in
    their accomodations, and in giving their guests good lodging and 
    breakfast.  Typically they are farms or other private homes.  B+B's
    of that quality in the US would run $40-$70, I imagine.
    
    I also suspect it's only feasible for the travel agent here to deal
    with hotels, etc., so that's why the pricey itinerary.
    
    There are also many hostels (like our AYH, same organization) in
    Britain.  You can probably get a guide or referral from AYH.  Also,
    try contacting the Cyclists' Touring Club, Cotterell House, 69 Meadrow,
    Godalming, Surrey, GU7 3HS (telephone 04868 7217).
    
    Note: I've not toured in Ireland, but Ireland is reputed to be a very
    "accomodating" country - so things should be at least as good there.
    
    Ok, any Irish or Britons (in the same breath) care to comment?
    
    -john

You might want to ask your question in TALLIS::CELT, this
conference has a lot of Irish based readers always
willing to promote tourism.

Given I grew up there I remember the cycling as being
good.  The roads are in fairly good condition.  Most any town 
will have a B&B place, and I'm sure the Irish Tourist
Board will send you a recommended list.

If it were me, I'd go over, plan on spending a day or two in
Shannon (don't go the whole way to Dublin, the West coast is
MUCH more scenic) and book my accomodation from there before
I set out.

You could probably cycle up through Co. Clare and Galway and swing
back to Shannon via a more inland route.  Given the size of the
country you're NEVER going to get too far from where you left.

Have fun.

Bernard.

    Thanks for replys, I had also told her to go solo and save money.  But
    she wants to go with a group (seems she likes having everthing taken
    care of for her by someone elese).  So if you know of any touring clubs
    or travel agencies that run cheep tours let me know.
    
                                          Thanks
    
                                         Paul
    

>    So if you know of any touring clubs
>    or travel agencies that run cheep tours let me know.
    

   I recommend Easy Rider Tours, based in Arlington. The cost of their tour
was $1795 last year. This price includes airfare, 14 nights lodging (at
B&Bs), 7 dinners, support van and all land transportation. The tour covers
counties Clare, Galway, and Kerry. Phone number is 617-643-8332.

   I went a year and a half ago, and very much enjoyed it!. There might
be a note somewhere in this conference describing my trip...

								Rob