Conference noted::bicycle

On my touring bike, when I get a lot of chain noises, I put some wd40 on it and
the noises go away.  Pretty soon, though, I replace the chain.  I use Sedis for
that because they are plentiful and cheap.

On my racing bikes, I try to take care of the chain before it can have a
problem usually cleaning them with a vetta.  That's because I use a Regina CXS,
which is more like $25 - $30 each.  If I see a little bit of rust on it, I'll
try lubing before replacing to see how it feels.  If the rust is superficial,
it's just on the outside of the rollers and will come off quickly.

My guess is that, if the squeaks return, the rust is between the rollers and
the pins and that it didn't wear off easily.

As for parafin, I used to use it but it wears off quickly in rainy weather
so I've stopped using it.

ed

    How old is your present chain? Is it the original on the bike? If
    it is the original chain and you have a fair amount of mileage on
    the beast, a new chain may be warranted. Most bike companies save
    a few pennies by using a cheap chain.
    
    When I was in Calif. in '79 , I discovered paraffining chains. The salt,
    sand, grit, and maybe even smog was causing me to go thru chains
    about every 3 months. Parafinning is fine for applications that
    are encountering severe conditions, Calif. or cyclocross are two
    examples. The treatment usually lasts about 1000 miles. When the
    chain begins to squeek, paraffin it again.
    
    I had been using Superlube for about 1 1/2 years now. I am
    experimenting with the new Allsop jobbie. So far I like it. It takes
    about 4 applications for the stuff to really penetrate the links.
    It is very clean and cheaper than just about anything.
    
    CAVEAT: I am a road racer and long distance rider. My recommendations
    may be inapproriate for you.
    
    Down hills and tailwinds...
    
    Gary

    
    	I gave up chain waxing for a while on the grounds that a six
    pack of SEDIS from Nashbar would keep me going for a long time.
    I just went back to it this year, straight wax will get into the
    rollers and do a fine job, but flakes off of the side plates very
    quickly.  A mix of parafin wax, bees wax and 90 wt oil will stick,
    penetrate into the rollers and remain clean.
    
    	Reg
    

    	Rockhopper probably is using a cheap chain.  Mine doesn't 
    squeak, but does tend to bind (and skip).
    

Thanks for the input so far.  The chain is actually a KMC, from
Taiwan.  It IS probably cheap but it is NOT very old.  I guess
because the Rockhopper has a Shimano 600 5 speed freewheel, and
Shimano Deore XT deraileurs, I should think about using a Uniglide
chain.  I think Specialized uses this on their more expensive bikes,
like the Stumpjumper.

It sounds like I might be the last one on the block to get some sort
of chain cleaner.  I guess they work ! 

Reg, that sounds like a interesting concoction you use.  Do you boil it
up outdoors ?   Can you give me the approximate proportions ?

Isn't that the same stuff they used to pour over castle
walls at invading Huns ?

Thanks
Dave
 

    
    	Lemme see, *APPROXIMATE* proportions.
    
    Paraffin wax is most readily available as canning wax.  I think
    there are 5 bars to the pound.
    
    Bees wax is available in health food stores (for all natural, organic
    canning, and other things).  I think you buy it by the ounce.  It
    may also be available in wood craft supply stores for making polish.
    
    90 wt oil is just that, by the quart from the local auto parts store.
    80 or 85 is OK too.
    
    Get one 7 inch and one 8 inch cake pans about an inch deep.  Put
    a little water in the big one, put the small one inside that, you
    now have a double boiler.  Use one bar of paraffin wax (about 3
    ozs) and one ounce of bees wax, pour enough oil over them to just
    cover them.  Set this all on the stove and go.  Be sure to have
    plenty of paper towel around when you fish the chain out of the
    *HOT* mix.  Also, fix a strong paper clip to one end of the chain
    before you start so you can get it out and have something to hang
    it by.  Oh yes, have somewhere to hang it.
    
    	Reg
    

    I haven't seen chain boiling instructions since I was into Nortons.
    Pain in the ass with a derailleru chain, since no master link, what?
    
    J

    In his book _Effective Cycling_, John Forrester recommends the
    following mixture for chains:
    
    	1 part 90 weight oil
    	1 part parafin
    	5 parts gasoline ( or enough to dissolve the parafin)
    
    Has anybody else tried this?
    
    -Jeff Bell

    re .8	Not on a naked (gas) flame.
    

    OH DEAR....  
    
    I didn't mean that you heat the gasoline-parafin-gear oil  mixture.
    I hope that no one has tried.
    
    The idea is that you paint it on;  the gasoline is just a carrier
    and evaporates after it has carried the lubricants into the chain.
    
    I forgot that my note might be read in the context of the previous
    notes.
    
    -Jeff
    

    re: .9 & .10
    
    Now you tel

    I was considering purchasing a set of new chains from the guy that
    runs the Happy Days Shop in Milford.  He says he'll sell them to
    you completly waxed and will re-wax them (for a fee) for people
    uninterested in performing the chore (Reggies method sounds more like a
    ritual) themselves.  I'm tired of getting grease all over the
    upholstery whenever I bring my bike in the car.  I also purchased
    a Vetta which I will gladly sell at a 33% discount since although
    it cleans the chain its a mess to use.  I get more scum on the wheels
    tires and frame than I would if I used a common old gas rag.  I'll
    let you know how his chains work and there cost in the Spring when
    I hit the roads again.  (Severl pounds heavier I might add).
    							Jerry

    re .12	C'mon, a new chain won't weigh but milligrams more than
    the old one, and wax is light too;    "several pounds heavier" ?

    	Reg
    

    I think he meant himself.. not the chains/wax.
    
    

    re: 13	Help is on the way....Nashbar has a Specialized Wind
    Trainer in there post Christmas catalog for $74 and change.  Now
    I won't need to use """  A E R O  """"  wax to keep the bike and
    rider light.  H'm  wonder if Sedis makes LITE's?  This could be
    the start of a skinny chain revolution.  Got any suggestions on
    which  WAXED chains work best with which freewheels for touring?

    re .15	Oh, rider weight;  Yes, of course.  But if you havn't
    already ordered I'd recommend either the Taxc speed braker or
    Performance rollers with fans.  I find that rollers demand a lot
    more concentration than fixed wind trainers and the ones with fan
    kits can be used either as straight rollers or as wind trainers.
    My warm down trick is to reduce my speed by 10 % every minute
    until I can't stay on any more, it provides mental arithmetic too.
    I wrote something in the winter training note about this a while
    back, I think I still believe it all.
    
    	Reg
    
    
    
    

    re .15,.16
    
    getting off the chains subject, but the performance rollers are
    on sale also for $89.95 with the fans add ($29.95 I think) in the "after
    XMAS catalogue".
    

    SEDIS LITES would be highly recommended for retired jocks and
    Rodney Dangerfield.  (Oh, and Mickey Spillane and "the doll.")

    
    Speaking of chains and post-XMAS deals... if anyone hears about
    good Regina Oro chain deals, let me know.
    
    (I've heard all the criticisms of these chains, but I still think
    the nice gold color looks great on the bike.)
    
    Chuck
    

    RE: chain lube, cleaner, and tight links
    
        I can't believe that no one has mentioned Tri-flow (a teflon based
    lubricant) as a very effective AND easy to use chain lube! Could
    it be that it is not available other than on the west coast?  As
    a hill climber and gritty road person, I have tested it in adverse
    conditions. I went through a short WD-40 phase only to discover
    it is a rust preventative with minimal staying power and not a
    lubricant.
    
      I also use the VETTA chain cleaner fairly regulary due
    to a fair amount of grit on the soggy Washington roads and a fair
    amount of non-paved riding.  I find it works better than the solvent
    soaked rag and is still easier than the scrubbing and shaking in
    a can when you remove a chain to clean it.  I do run the chain through
    fairly slowly and use some newspapers in the area. 
    
    Tight links were mentioned.  I assume everyone knows how to loosen
    the tight spot by grabbing the chain on either side of the binding
    point and flexing the chain sideways.  A mystery tight spot can
    be found by running the chain slowy BACKWARDS and the tight spot
    will give itself away as a kink as it comes off the jockey wheel.
    
    
    Thom

    
    Tri-flow liquid (in the gallon jug) is the only chain lube I use.
    Tried wax, different oils, all the fancy "chain lubes" etc. but
    Tri-flow always did the best job. It works in a "semi-wet" state
    that doesn't attract as much dirt as oil, and keeps your bike
    cleaner.
    
    CdH
    
    

Tri-flow is great - have used it exclusively for years. If it can't be
found, a product that should work similarily is Break-Free CLP - again,
it's an oil full of Teflon. Haven't tried it on the bike yet. Comes in
spray cans or liquid in sizes from 1 oz to 1 gallon.

                                                ken

    Re .20, .21, .22:
    
    I recently used Tri-flow for the first time.
    
    I've just been on a touring holiday, which started out hot and sunny
    but quickly degenerated into the usual British summer weather, low
    cloud and pouring rain. In the Lake District, the rain was especially
    heavy, causing me chain problems. I use LPS3 normally, it's nice
    and clean, but it soon washes off in wet weather: and indeed it had.
    Consequently the chain was squeaking like crazy. I went into a shop in
    Ambleside and found two small bottles of lubricant, one an aerosol and
    the other not (the Tri-flow). 
    
    "Will you be flying?" said the assistant. This struck me as a very
    odd question to be asked in a bike shop.
    
    "Yes", I said.
    
    "Then take the Tri-flow, they won't let you take an aerosol on the
    plane." So I took her advice, and the Tri-flow.
    
    God, does that stuff stink. But it did a good job lubricating the
    chain. On the minus side, it turned the chain and block coal-black,
    not good in this stylish era, and it causes more mess than LPS3.
    
    Rod

    I have been using triflow for several months. A friend of mine has
    been using it for years.....it's excellent. it gathers dirt and
    grime like crazy, and you'll have to clean the chain more frequently,
    but I haven't had a bit of trouble since I switched to triflow.
    the extra mess is worth it!!

    I am in the process of fixing up a Jetter 10 spd bike for my son. 
    One problem however is that it doesn't have a chain on it so I
    don't know the prober length chain it requires.
    
    Can anybody recommend a method for determining chain length or a 
    procedure for fitting a chain so that I could by a new chain and
    shorten to fit?
    
    Thanks
    
    Jonathan

    
    Chains typically must be shortened-to-size, depending on your
    bike's gearing range and chain-stay length.  Therefore, you do
    not have to buy a chain that "fits" exactly, but you do have to
    shorten it.  You use the same tool to install the chain, remove it,
    and shorten it - a chain/rivet tool. 
    
    How do you size the chain?  Here is the simple-minded way (I await
    corrections and refinements from the more knowledgeable):
    
    1. Set your gearing (derailleur positions) at the large chain-ring
       and the largest freewheel cog.
    
    2. Thread the chain (properly!) through the derailleurs and around
       the large chain-ring and largest freewheel cog.  You now have
       the maximum length the chain will need.
    
    3. Tension the chain so that the rear derailleur is at about a 45�
       angle (this is what I'm not sure of, and will doubtless open
       lengthy debates).  This shouldn't be the maximum reach of the
       rear derailleur, but close.
    
    4. Measure this length, and shorten the chain to fit ... making
       sure, of course, that you cut the link at one end to marry 
       properly with the link at the other (male/female).
    
       Hint: practice using the chain tool on a spare link at the
       end of the chain.  To detach links, you should push the rivet
       so that it is still embedded in one plate - it should not fall out.
    
    Good luck.
    -john

    
    	Any chain you buy will most likely be long enough so all
    you need in addition to the chain is a chainbreaker (available
    in most bike shops for < $5 ) and some lube.  A very unscientific 
    but quick and easy method of determining length is to just place 
    the chain on the largest sprocket and largest Chainring (outside ring) 
    and break the link where the chain ends meet.  Even if you make this 
    a snug fit with little slack it should be ok since you never want to
    cross the chain from the large ring to the large cog anyway but it 
    will probabaly work since all chains stretch in time.
    
    						_Jerry
    BTW - The biggest problem with changing chains is cleaning your
    	  hands afterwords :)

    re: .26, .27: One caution, guys, in case the subject is ever broached
    again.  For a tandem, one should be careful to add an inch to a
    standard chain, perhaps.
    
    ed, who didn't an destroyed a derailleur as a result.  :-(

Ed,

Why does an extra inch save the derailleur?  I would have thought that using 
John's method would have allowed enough slack.  Does the same problem exist on 
any triple crank?

Kevin

    John's method is fine.  But what I did was in a rush and I knew I
    didn't have "too much chain" as would happen with most racing bikes
    but I never considered the possibility that I might not have enough
    on the new chain.
    
    Many triples have the problem of not enough rear derailleur capacity
    especially if one elects "a lower gear" so you make a trade-off
    acknowledging that you'll never use "big-big" or "small-small"
    -- UNTIL THAT BLASTED HAM-HANDED CAPTAIN screws up.
    
    ed

	I've just gotten a new bike and noticed that the lubricant on
	the chain doesn't appear to be your usual oil/grease.  It's clear
	and sticky or tacky, but not slippery.  Whatever it is, it seems
	to be keeping the chain pretty clean.  Granted, the bike only
	has 70 miles on it at this point and I haven't ridden in wet 
	conditions, but it's not picking up any grit.

	I was thinking it might be waxed. I asked at the shop last night
	and the mechanic told me he really wasn't sure *what* it was, since
	it comes from the warehouse that way (it's a Bianchi, BTW).  I
	asked about waxing, which I've never done before, but he said it's
	a real pain and I'd get sick of it very soon. 

	From what I understand, you have to remove the chain, dip it in
	melted wax (maybe using one of the concoctions described earlier
	in this string), and let it hang for a while.  While that doesn't	
	sound too bad, my chain is a Hyperglide so I think I'll also
	need to replace a pin every time I do this. 

	So my questions are: if I go w/waxing, how often do I need to 
	rewax?  Anything I should be doing in between rewaxings?  I noticed
	that a lot of people liked Tri-Flow, but say it's also pretty
	messy.  I really like the fact that my chain and freewheel are so
	clean, and I hope I can keep them that way.

	Thanks,
	Sue

    Wax is  the cleanest chain lube I know of, but it is a nuisance to
    do,  and it gets washed off by heavy rain. I'm told that the fancy
    wax from bike stores survives rain better, and a lot of people say
    that  you  have  to  remove a chain to really clean it, so wax may
    pretty good.

    I keep  hearing  about  wonderful new lubricants, and I don't know
    whether  to  believe any of them. Some can be applied on the bike,
    and  dry in 10 minutes to a wax-like finish. I don't know how well
    they lubricate nor whether failing to clean the chain before using
    them will be a real problem.

    I use  wax,  and wax all my chains at one time, so the setup isn't
    too  bad.  If  you  wax,  heat the wax in a double boiler (I use a
    coffee  can containing wax, and put it in a pot). Keep the wax hot
    when  you put the chain in, because you want the wax to flow. That
    means keeping the wax in the boiling water after you put the chain
    in, and giving the whole thing time to heat up again.

--David

     I know a guy who uses plain old ski parafin (sp?)... Says
    it's cheaper and goes on/off the same way... 
    
     I think he says he has to do it every 500-700 miles or so.
    
       Chip

    I use  parrafin, which you can get from most supermarkets, as it's
    used for canning jam.  It's quite cheap.

    Depending on  the  weather, I can get from 100 to about 1000 miles
    before  it needs to be relubed. Heavy rain seems to just strip the
    wax off instantly.

--David

    I think that chains are oiled/waxed/whatever to:

	1. reduce friction/wear where parts rub together, and,
	2. prevent rust.

>    Depending on  the  weather, I can get from 100 to about 1000 miles
>    before  it needs to be relubed. Heavy rain seems to just strip the
>    wax off instantly.

    I _used to_ wax my chain with paraffin, and it seemed that the wax on
    the outside of the chain came off almost immediately, with lots of
    little wax flakes all over the chainstay, etc.  

    The wax falling off the outside is ok for (1.) because the sides of the
    chain don't wear much.  There was still wax on the inside of the chain 
    (friction/load-bearing surfaces).  It was great for keeping the chain
    clean, because dirt doesn't stick to dry metal.  The chain looked
    great until used in the rain, then it rusted immediately.

    So, I felt like wax was the way to go for a fair-weather bike, but
    not-so-great if the chain can get wet.

    Terry
    

    
    I'm about to replace the chain on my atb, and i'm thinking of trying
    wax on the new one. i've been using tri-flo mostly, and it's fine
    except that with the muddy conditions lately i'm picking up a ton of
    dirt.. to the point of my derailer wheels binding up.. need trail side
    cleaning just to keep going. i don't expect the wax to take care of
    that problem, but think it's worth a try.. 
    
    waxing the chain sounds simple enough, but what about the derailer, and
    the gear cluster? i would think that oiling those would deteriorate the
    wax...
    
    						Mike

    I've used  wax on my chains for years now, with no problems except
    in torrential rains.

--David

    I don't know of anyone that uses wax on an MTB chain, at least not in a
    climate that lends itself to mud (water).  Cleaning the bike after a
    good wet, muddy ride takes a good bit of time and then having to remove
    the chain to wax it (at least I suspect you'd have to remove it),
    waxing it and so on should eat up a bit more.  In the spring, I'd have
    to do that probably each day I rode.  Also, removing the chain
    excessively is supposed to weaken it, or so they say.

    A good lubricant (I use finish line for dry to semi-wet rides and
    Phil for real rain/mud conditions, others seem to like Syn but it is
    more expensive) and a good washing with the hose usually works for
    myself and the folks I ride with, and the bikes too :-)!  Then just
    make sure you re-lube the chain to prevent rust and such.
                    
    john
    
    
    ps - I read somewhere that Tri-flow tends to have a more "adhesive"
    quality in regards to dirt.                      

    
    maybe that's my problem, tri-flow picking up dirt.. all i know is that
    i'm cleaning the drive train big time every time i ride, and often need
    to help it during the ride. 
    

    
     Forget the wax for the serious offroad.  The water and mud will wash
    it off in no time at all.  Go with a synthetic lube.  The synthetics
    will bond to CLEAN metal.  Some of them contain detergents to help
    remove the crud.  
    
    
    							Norm
    
    

    
    	Breakfree TM for me.
    
    	Roger