Conference terri::cars_uk

    I evaluated the option of coming out of the scheme, but dsecided on
    balance, because of a long commute every day,(40 miles each way), that it 
    was worthwhile remaining on the scheme for 'worry free driving' reasons.
    There is enough stress at work without having to add to it if the car's
    off the road and I can't easily get alternative transport to work as I
    live in a rural area.
    
    I assessed several new car options with extended warranty and service
    options, but, as I haven't got any capital to put down felt quite
    restricted in what I could purchase.
    
    Much depends on your own personal circumstances/preferences.
    
    Tim
    Tim
    

    re .0
    
    Ron, I guess it depends how much business & personal mileage you do. 
    I do zero business miles (virtually) but a very high personal mileage
    (25k/yr). I prefer to pay the extra tax and take the car because it is
    worry free motoring. 
    
    Be careful with these special deals on new cars like
    'options' and 50/50 as there are normally heavy penalties if you
    exceed mileage limits or if the car is not returned in pristine
    condition.
    
    Royston

    Hi,
    
    yes I agree that sometimes [ lots of times ] there is a catch to the
    deal. As has been said before if a deal looks too good to be true then
    it probably is.
    
    No, I made the point to the salesman that I was hoping to keep the car
    [ as in normal HP ], I didn't want to pay so much in payments that I
    couldn't afford maintenance/ insurance / tyres etc. this ruled out a
    personal lease , but he still said yes he could do it. For the purposes
    of the notes file I didn't put in all the details of the conversation
    but I take your point.
    
    Its the idea of having my own car which means no Tax office clobbering
    me for the company car benefit, no worry about MUST do 18K / year and 
    also having something at the end of all these payments. Yes I know its
    nice to order a new car and let Lease Plan do the rest but, when that
    car gets collected at the end of its lease I have nothing to show for
    it.
    
    Maybe I should wait untill november and see what if anything the
    Chancellor does to extract more wonga from the poor old moting public.
    
    regards Ron 
     

I think quite a lot depends on whether you have/need an alternative  vehicle
when it needs serviceing or repair. If it has to be off the road for any lengh
of time, is it going to cost you a lot in time or money? I think a lot of people
go for the lease option because it guarantees that they will always have a car,
whatever happens, even abroad. To some people this peace of mind is worth a lot
of money.  

We used to have a lease car, but now my husband works for a company that offers
a standard Cavalier 1.8, or cash, with certain rules about the type and age of
vehicle you could run. We took the money, bought a 2.5year old car, with 31,000
miles on it, we pay all servicing and repair (they pay the insurance, as
business cover is required) and we are better off financially, especially as it
doesn't do 18k business miles. It is serviced at our local garage, who does not
charge the silly rates of main dealers, and who is always polite and helpful!
A good second-hand car may be worth considering, as you won't loose so much in
depreciation, and you are not tied to the franchised dealers for servicing!

    Why not just cost into the equation two weeks car hire to cover the odd
    time when the car might be unavailable. I still think private car
    ownership will be cheaper than the lease.
    
    I have found that given enough notice most garages can provide a
    courtesy car for services, so two weeks SHOULD be more than enough to
    cover non-planned incidents?
    
    Or check out if the AA/RAC type organisations offer car replacement for
    breakdowns and have car replacement added to your insurance for accidents.
    
    
    Xtine
                   

    I've just opted out.
    
    Some garages (the SEAT garage at Hook near Basingstoke) offer hire cars
    whilst yours is being worked on.  From what I remember it was about �11
    for a very basic car for a day, which could be cheaper than taxi fares.
    
    I opted out for many reasons... No clout over garages (Davy's has been
    mentioned before, CloverLeaf at Alton didn't bother to tighten up the
    wheel nuts last time it got worked over 8-)   The tax situation getting
    worse and worse,  limited choice of car....etc.   I still think the car
    scheme is a good deal, for some people, it has been excellent for me
    over the years, but things have changed to such an extent that it is no
    longer worthwhile for me.
    
    regards,
    tmp
       

I don't like being clobbered with high company car tax, but I intend
to stay in the scheme because of the `worry free motoring' element.
I've personally experienced very poor service and high costs from
previous encounters with insurance companies, and I've yet to hear
first hand from anyone whose experience has been any different.  If
car insurance wasn't such a complete con I'd consider opting out,
but as it stands I'll let Digital worry about it.

Chris.

    
    Bucking the trend, I'd have to say that car insurance is becoming 
    much fairer. My wife's Tipo (bog standard family 1.6 car) is costing 
    just 160 quid fully comp to insure this year and she still has an
    accident affecting her premium.
    
    In addition, it seems that Norwich Union now do a full year's no time
    limit green card (if you need this better check up, but it is what I've
    been told) and most companies now provide a limited period green card 
    for a whole year (for instance any number of 2 week periods).
    
    Car insurance had become laughable, but it's reverting back to a more
    sensible level and there are even some good deals on performance cars
    (Apparently the 16v SEAT Ibiza which does 130 Mph and 0-60 in
    7.something seconds is Group 12).
    
    Mark

    RE: .6 
    Perhaps I should have mentioned, I bought a Vauxhall :-)
    
    
    RE Insurance.
    
    It's a cut throat business out there now.  I got some quotes, then went
    back to the place I liked and said can you do any better and got it
    reduced from 449 to 380.  
    
    RE: Worry free motoring.
    
    I didn't get much of that with my company car.  ;-)
    The worst bit was when they changed the list price half way through the
    lease and my tax was in danger of increasing significantly.
    
    tmp

    
    Surely the tax you pay relates to the price of the car when it was new?
    
    Mark

    Mark is correct, if the price of the car changes *after* it is bought
    then this has no effect on your tax.
    
    	Rik

    Just to clarify things.
    
    When I took over the lease, the purchase price (when new) of the car
    was quoted at �15,548.  12 months later, Car Fleet accused Hertz of
    being incompetent (Hertz denied this and from the evidence I accrued I
    can sympathize with Hertz), and said the real purchase price of my car,
    when new was �16,920 (or thereabouts).  This would then impact my tax
    code, retrospectively.  I was told it had happened to hundreds of
    people.  I was not happy !  I lost several days of real work trying to
    get this sorted and this incident destroyed my faith in "worry free
    motoring" and a "fixed price lease".  I got into trouble because of the
    fuss I kicked up.
    
    tmp

    I guess the first figure is the 'purchase' price.
    
    As we all know its the list price we are taxed on.
    
    Royston

    Sorry, I meant retail list price on all occasions.
    
    tmp

    re .3
>>> Its the idea of having my own car which means no Tax office clobbering
>>> me for the company car benefit, no worry about MUST do 18K / year
>>> and also having something at the end of all these payments.
    --------
    Exactly! I opted out 3 years ago and never regretted it. In
    Engineering, I was having trouble doing even the minimum 2500 business
    miles per year, and was getting totally ravaged by the taxman. I had to
    find the initial deposit for my own car, but now three years later, I
    have my own car, which I am looking forward to trading in. Insurance
    has been a drop in the ocean compared to the tax allowance I was
    losing, and I get it serviced by the local garage at very reasonable
    hourly rates. Everyone has different requirements, but getting out of
    the scheme was for me, a very good idea.
    
    regards,
    DaveT

    Get out while you can....
    
    I came out(?!)three years ago, Bought a cossie for a song and have
    run it ever since. The ammount I have saved on tax, both not paying
    company car tax and the increase in tax code for claiming costs
    incurred on business travel ie; servicing,tyres,insurance etc has paid
    for the running of the car.
    
    Regards,
    
    Simon.

    re-1
    
    I need to find out about the tax implications of doing business travel
    on my own car (servicing etc), do you know the number/name of any
    leaflet I should ask the tax office for?
    
    ta
    
    mikef

    Mike,
    
    Spooky as it may seem it is called an expenses claim form or P87
    
    Simon.

    even wierder - I just called them and they were really nice and helpful
    and are sending me the leaflet....
    
    
    hmmm..
    
    mikef

is it just me who thinks that in these days of concern about the environment,
the government penalises people who do a low mileage, and effectively forces
people to drive an excessive amount to reach a particular break-off point?

Chris.

    I've been out of the car scheme for about 1 year now and recently
    received a cheque from the taxman, that 1/3rd covered my seven months
    of running expenses that I had incurred.
    
    I run about 80% business and 20% private, so I can claim about 30% of
    every expense incurred.
    
    I do pay more per month than my allowance + car tax used to be, but I
    can change it when I like and to whatever I like.
    
    I usually receive a courtesy car while it is being serviced and my
    insurance covers me with a replacement car for 21 days, following an
    accident or theft.
    
    The premium is fairly reasonable as well, 524.00 per annum for a Group
    14 Car, protected, with business class 1 usage.
    
    I'm staying well clear of the scheme for now.
    
    Regs
    
    Andy

    >> I'm staying well clear of the scheme for now.
    
    Andy, I think if you read the small print, you'll find you're staying
    out for good.
    
    Graham

    re: .21
    
    And boy does that guy like to swap and change!!!
    
    Nig.
    
    Ron - I'm currently doing the same calculations, still can't make up my
    mind what's for the best!!!
    
    Maybe we should compare notes?
    
    Cheers
    
    Nig.

    Nig,
    
    being a bear of small brain I will need all the help I can when it
    comes to actually working it out.
    
    Where do we start??
    
    Rgds Ron.

There really isn't as much tax saving as some people have made out, although
it does depend on the car purchase price and your business mileage.

Figure: 
	Tax at whatever rate you pay on the cash supplement you would get,
against:
	Car tax based on milage and list price of your chosen lease car.

This CAN mean a major difference IF your taxable income is just below a
tax-break threshold.  
The car-tax is a reduction in your tax code, the supplement is effectively 
an increase in income, which just might push you into the higher tax bracket.

IF your taxable income is well clear of any tax-break threshold you can count
the cash supplement as being virtually tax-free simply because you are paying
tax anyway, on one option or the other!.

I have been out of the system for almost 3 years, and happy to remain so.

For me, the primary value of being out of the scheme is the MUCH wider choice
of vehicle type and age available to me. 
In the scheme you are paying for the high depreciation of your chosen vehicle
over the first 3 years of it's life. If your mileage is such that your car is
effectively worn out after 3 years driving, then stick to the scheme.

	JT: