Conference terri::cars_uk

I think it's a Cavalier 1.6 LS

    
    Just looking thro' the 'driver prices' on VTX as amended August 1st and
    noticed the Omega range has dropped significantly, but the Frontera
    prices have risen.
    
    Any lease scheme which does that can't be all bad!
    
    8-)

    
    .. and as an afterthought, I've knocked out a simple Excel spreadsheet
    to calculate the lease scheme cost plus tax liability so's to see the
    real annual cost of running a leased car. I can mail a copy to
    interested parties ..
    
    Mike.
    ----

    Why not post a pointer in here?

    
    Re: .3  I only have A1 access. I'm happy to send anyone a copy who can
    then make it accessible on a network node (is that what you call 'em?)
    
    Have a nice day y'all.
    

    Mike, have you got it on 2020?
    
    Cheers,
    
    Tim

    Re: .5  No, but it's so simple it wouldn't take much to convert.
    
    I was rather hoping one of the recipients would have made it available
    from their system with a pointer in here by now.
    
    (After looking at it, perhaps they've only got disap-pointers)
    
    8-)
    

    A location for the Excel Spreadsheet is:-
    
    DELBOY::PCSA_USER:[DORANA.PUBLIC]CARSCHME.XLS
    
    Cheers,
    
    Andy

Hi,

If you're interested.... 

I have an excel spreadsheet that calculates the entire cost of ownership, 
including lease cost, car tax, business fuel, private fuel and works in your 
car allowance. 

Interestingly enough, fuel consumption has a much bigger effect on the 
overall cost than worrying about car tax and/or lease cost (at least if your 
doing more than 18k).

The bottom line figure it generates is the monthly cost (in hard cash) to run 
your company car.

You can find it in:

delboy::pcsa_user:[couplands.public]car_cost.xls (excel V5)
delboy::pcsa_user:[couplands.public]car_cost.xl4 (excel V4)

Someone may care to check the car tax formula I used, I cross checked it with 
the previous carschme.xls and it got a different answer..!!

cheers

simon

    Hi,
    
    Does anyone have a spreadsheet which calculates the costs of leasing or 
    renting on the car scheme ? If so could you possibly place this on the 
    network somewhere. 
    
    If not I'll continue working on my model. 
    
    Regards,
    Jonathan
     

    re: .12
    
    Yep, I think your tax liability calculation is wrong, if I've
    understood the formula in your spreadsheet correctly.
    
    It should be: R%((LP*.35)*.67)
    
    where R% = 25% 0r 40% (being the rate at which you pay tax)
    and   LP = manufacturer's list price of the car
    
    because the tax liability is calculated on 35% of the car's list price
    - ie you pay tax (at your tax rate) on 35% of the car's cost, but you
    get a one third discount if you do more than 2500 business miles, or a
    two thirds discount if you do more than 18000 business miles. The
    formula above, therefore, assumes 2500<business miles<18000.
    
    Make sense?
    

    
    Vauxhall have discontinued the old cooking model 2.0I engine and only
    now list the 2.0I 16v ecotec for the Cavalier does the panel think we
    are going to get that engine at the current vtx 94 model prices?
    
    Richard

    Please ask him to post details of quote here!!!
    
    Frank

    Frank
    
    The quote was verbal from car fleet. Phone them and ask if you can
    order on the calibra se3 quote for �3298.
    
    Royston

    Re. 14
    
    	Are you sure you could handle a Calibra Richard ?
    
    	GD.

Anybody been daft enough to get a quote for a 325i coupe, with a/c ideally?

Hi All,

Has anyone had quotes for the new Astra's (1.6i 16V and 1.8i 16V) ??

If not, how do I go about getting a quote for these as they aren't mentioned
on the preferred car list on VTX.

Barry

    Fleet don't have prices yet, 'cos the dealers don't either, at least
    that's what Kennings said last week.
    
    
    
    

    I took delivery, last month, of a 1.6 16V GLS. I paid the price quoted on
    VTX (I hope!).  I did use the quote number on VTX so I assume I'll pay
    the rate quoted.
    
    		Jon.

Any quotes on Frontera's?

VTX?

Has anyone had any quotes for a Citreon Zantia?

    Does anyone know of _any_ current quotes ?
    
    It seems very quiet on the quote front. Maybe everyone is either
    resigned to getting a Vauxhall off the list or opted out the scheme
    (or resigned, period!).
    
    Royston

 Re.24

>>>Title:  Zantia quotes ???

>>>Has anyone had any quotes for a Citreon Zantia?



Spelt Xantia!

PRONOUNCED Zantia.

				Malcolm

Re.25

It's a grim thought isn't it...

There was a rumour sometime ago that Fleet didn't make the forecast quota 
that entitles Digital to the special price on Vauxhalls. Any update? Was it 
true? Or was it just a load of b*llocks?

Rupert

I think the latter is true

Hi,

Has anybody had a quote for the Astra 1.6 convertible ? 

On VTX it says TBA

Thanks,

Simon Austin

    
    I think it's about 3,900.  Carfleet have the exact price...
    
    Chris.

	Car fleet says the price is 3,966 for the
	1.6 astra convertible


	no news yet on the 1.8 convertible astra though
	- the 2.0 is being dropped.



	Gary

    I've just had a mail from payroll stating that the original quoted
    retail price for my car (which I took over about a year ago) was wrong,
    they've increased it by �965 and passed the info on to the tax office
    so that I can pay even more tax :-(((
    
    This is bad news.  I was quoted a price and agreed to accept it, now
    it appears that I just have to pay out more money than I was expecting. 
    What's worse is that I got the new schedule of coding from the tax
    office before the mail from payroll.
    
    I've escalated it to my manager and back to payroll but I thought I'd
    mention it because I'm sure it will be happening to others aswell, and
    it makes me feel better if I get a bit of sympathy :-) and someone
    might be able to advise on the legal position.... please.
    
    A shop can't ask for more money for goods you bought a year ago, so why
    should Digital cause me to be charged more money a year after the
    agreement was made.
    
    tmp

    Anyone got a figure for the 804 CD in a Calibra? Its quoted at #169 for
    the Omega but not on the Calibra option list.
    
    Thanks

Ref -2

I'm keeping quiet! In my case it was "Bank Error in Your Favour". They 
overstated my list price by �1132!! 8^)

At the time I queried it, but got stonewalled by Fleet, Tax Office et al. 
At least someone was conscientious enough in the end to put it right.

Rupert

    
    On my last company car they forgot to add the cost of insurance, as
    they did to about 40 of us. Lease quotes in this case were honoured.
    
    Gary

    I picked up the price list from the local Vauxhall dealers on Saturday
    and am confused ...
    
        The astra 1.6i sport is list price of 11,985, car scheme is 3043
        The astra 1.6i GLS   is list price of 12,565, car scheme is 2787
     
        The astra 1.7TD Sport is list price of 12,215, car scheme is 3017
        The astra 1.7TD GLS   is list price of 12,795, car scheme is 2818
    
        Why are the car scheme prices more for the Sport than the GLS when
    the list price is nearly 600 pounds cheaper ? Is this a sign of
    increasing prices on the car scheme ?
    
        If I'm missing something blatantly obvious then apologies, this is
    the first time I've compared prices properly.
    
            Euan
        

    Not that I know for definite, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was the
    simple existance of the letters S,P,O,R and T after the 1.6i bit :-|
    
    Cheers,
    Dan

    The list price and lease cost doesn't necessary match up (just
    look at the Tigra prices).
    
    The Astra GLS and Sport (TD) are both insurance group 9 so 'Sport'
    doesn't make any difference in this case.
    
    Perhaps the lease costs will fall into line when all the models
    are update in July.
    
    It could also be that good deals have already been arranged on
    more popular midels thereby allowing a more favourable lease cost
    than on lower sales volumes of 'niche' models. The Sport is a quite
    recent addition to the Astra family.
    
    The Astra GLS is very good value on the preferred list right if 
    that sort of car is for you.
    
    Royston
                                

    
    Recieved a quote yesterday for a Citroen Xantia 1.9 TD LX 5 door in
    black for 3553.
    
    Is this a little steep? 
    
    What do you think?
    
	G.

    You have got to bear in mind that non-Vauxhall quotes are going to 
    be more expensive.
    
    This model is priced between a Cavalier LS and GLS at �14k.
    
    Presumably you particularly like the Xantia against the cheaper (to
    lease) Cavalier so go for it and stand out from the crowd a bit.
    
    The fuel economy is not good in my opinion judging from Malcolm's
    comments as he stuggles to get more than 38mpg. I get a regular 47mpg
    from my Cavalier TD LS.
    
    Royston

    �he stuggles to get more than 38mpg
    
    I've just had a chat with Malcolm and the 38mpg was the average he
    got on holiday fully loaded and driving up and down mountains.
    A more realistic average is 43mpg.
    
    Royston

    Fume! Fume!
    
    How penny pinching can you get !
    
    I had my Hertz Cavalier serviced at a Vauxhall main dealer last week
    and yesterday I check the washer bottle as the washer were frozen.
    I was alarmed that although the bottle had been topped up it was
    obvious that no screen wash additive had been used.
    I phoned the garage this morning to ask if this was the case and
    was advised that they top up the washer bottle but Hertz won't pay
    for any windscreen wash anti-freeze additive.
    
    I suppose they don't change the oil filter and use recycled oil as
    well!
    
    What a joke.
    
    Royston

It's reached that time when my car is almost at the end of its lease, and
I now have to look around for another.  It doesn't seem to be a very good
time, as many of the popular cars around at the moment seem to be almost
end-of-life.  I currently drive a Rover 214, and am consequently looking
for something in the same sort of price bracket (around 3000-3500 on the
car scheme), and have been wondering about the likes of the Mondeo and the
Xantia; whatever I get needs to be reasonably practical, not look old-
fashioned in a years' time, not too expensive, and do 0-60 in 10 seconds!
Any suggestions?
Cheers,

Chris.

    Chris, you're about 3 months ahead of me. I bet you can't replace the
    Rover with something similar (but non-Vauxhall) in the same price
    bracket. 
    
    Looks like we'll both be chucking Rovers for Astras :-(
    
    Andy

    The Astra Sport 1.8 16v at 3300ish looks a reasonably good deal.
    
    Royston

    Well when my Rover 214GSi lease ran out earlier this year and I found
    Fleet prices for 214s were only 200 pounds per year less than
    Discovery (which I can't afford to run) I took the plunge and opted
    out. I just happen not to like Cavaliers or Astras. Other people do.
    
    If I could have got Rover employee scheme prices (any reasonably close
    relative an employee of BAe or Rover, I wonder if that still applies) I
    would have had another 214.
    
    But I'm not eligible, and that, together with the exorbitant insurance
    prices I was quoted for the Rover, meant looking elsewhere. Since
    September I have been driving a Peugeot 306XTdt, which seems pretty
    good so far (except for the lack of in-car stash space). 

I've got one of the Astra 1.8 Sport's arriving tomorrow
and I too thought the lease was reasonable at 3399 !!

Barry
(glad to get rid of the Hyundai Lantra hire car)

    
    �Astra 1.8 Sport's arriving tomorrow
    
    Barry, be sure to let us know your impression after you've had it
    a week or so.
    
    Royston

Royston,

Previous to the hire car I currently have, I had a Cavalier
2.0 16V SRi.........I then went to test drive the Astra Sports
and was pleasantly surprised.

The interior was nearly exactly the same apart from the smaller
amount of free space.....although I wouldn't say it was that
noticable.

The Astra seemed to have all the gadgets and extras that the
SRi had with the one exception of electric wing-mirrors.

Also the Astra did seem quite pokey and very willing to get up
to the higher rev ranges that 16V cars relish. The ride and road
were also pretty good.

Obviously, this car is not up to the exceptional performance of
last years Astra GSI's and doesnt have the extra space of the
Cavalier Sri but in my honest opinion it is pretty good value and
for a man in my situation ie. no wife and kids, about the perfect
size.

Lets see if I'm as happy about this car after the next week or so !!

Barry
(BTW - I do 500+ miles a week and in a month of looking I have only
seen one Astra Sport on the roads, I wonder if this is a good sign
or not ??)

Re -1

I got mine yesterday.  So far I'm impressed, I'll post more later.


Regards,

Craig.

Craig,

What car did you have before ??

Barry

Just taken delivery...........had a bit of a spin and am well impressed. After
having the Hyundai Lantra 1.5 GLS for a couple of months.....the Astra seems like it
wants to take off !!

Barry

    re: .32   Problems with list price on company car.
    
    Well after 2 months of trying to sort this out, and holding Hertz to
    ransom (!?) I got a reply from the Herz Account Manager saying the
    original price quoted in March 1994 was correct...plus the �186 for
    metallic paint !  After a further discussion on why the list price
    should include a no-cost option, the extra �186 was dropped.
    
    The only people that sounded sympathetic to all this were Hertz. 
    Mails from Payroll blamed Hertz, Car Fleet blamed Hertz and I had a
    disturbing mail from Fleet Commodity giving 3 different prices, saying
    they were dealing with it "at great speed", then saying "there's
    nothing I can do" and telling me to stop hassling people.
    
    The nice lady at Hertz said to tell other people if they are having
    problems to call her (Ayesha on 081-847-6000).  I guess at least all
    the people with Astra GSis should be getting their list price to
    exclude the pearlescent paint (there's at least 4 in this building).
    
    tmp

    What's the quote turnaround time like at the moment?
    
    Cheers,
    
    Greg

    A few days, for what it is worth, I haven't been able to find any cars
    which are equivalent value to the Vauxhalls, yet.
    
    tmp

Why the difference??

'cos that is TWO people after the same car - and that means the car is 
popular, and if its popular it means the price is too low, and non-Vauxhall 
cars are not supposed to be popular, and the easiest way of making them 
non-popular is to put the price up.....

etc

    Has anyone out there received a quote recently for a BMW 318is coupe
    boggo standard basic model with no/few extra's.
    
    Thanks in anticipation of parting with too much dosh each month,
    
    Dean.

    Got my Calibra SE4 last week, I think it's a excellent car for the
    price (�3446) and is a real joy to drive. It remains to be seen how
    long the leather interior will stay clean as I have two young kids, but
    what the hell, its a change from the BX deisel!!
    
    
    Adrian :-)
    
    

    It seems amazing that whilst all other quotes seem to be sky high the
    lease cost of both the SE3 and SE4 are well low. Even lower than the
    std 8v Calibra.
    
    Royston

    re .59
    
    I *suspect* that the Vauxhall VTX quotes have an allowance in them for
    any Vauxhall price rises over the year.
    
    Cheers,
    
    greg

    Has anyone had a recent quote for a Ford Mondeo 1.8TD or any other non
    Vauxhall diesel?.
    Also are we still only allowed 2 quotes?.
    
    Thanks
    
    Kevin

    Kevin,
    
    I've got two quotes being processed now and one of them is for a Mondeo
    1.8 TD Aspen saloon. I'll post them both here when I get them back.
    
    Dave

    Further to my last.....
    I've just spoken to Martin's of Basingstoke and learned that Audi have
    withdrawn the A4 TDI in advance of launch. Suspect that the cause could
    be adverse comments in the press on the noise and lack of ooomph of the
    direct injection 1.9 diesel unit.
    Martin

The quotes in .33 are not comparable.  The "current lease" quoted is the amount
above the cost of the standard car, or something like that, whereas the "new"
quote is the full lease cost including the cost of the standard car.

Can anyone unravel these figures to make them comparable?

T

    �Can anyone unravel these figures to make them comparable?
    
    Taking the basic level 7 and below allowance of 2950 you
    could compare the old quote (�57) as �3007 against the
    new quote of �3909.
    
    Royston

Re .35:  I think that's probably now a correct comparison.  So now we know that
the lease cost of that car has gone up by about 30% in three years, which is
about 9% per year (compounded, remember!).

Ok, so that's well ahead of inflation, which should I think take about 17% in
three years (anybody have more precise figures?  I'm guessing 8% 5% and 3% for
the three years respectively).  The figures are not worse than I had come to
expect, based on my own search for a replacement car.

T

Better inflation figures found, thanks to the WWW -
(http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/pub/html/budget94/economy3_29.html give a graph).

The should be approx 3.75%, 3.5% and 3.25%, I think, which makes a three year
figure of about 11%.

T

    Can't you hang on till Sept., at least the new Cav will be out then.

    What's to say the new Cavalier won't be dull too?
    
    Why should Vauxhall ruin a tradition! ;-)
    
    Cheers,
    Dan

Re .39, and "hanging on" for the new Cavalier:  I wish I could, but my car comes
up for renewal in mid May.  I've even looked for cars to take over for a year to
get past the new Cavalier, but there don't seem to be any very often these days.

Anyway, when the new Cavalier comes out, they will undoubtedly put the price up,
so I would then end up paying even more for "the same" car, wouldn't I?

T

    Cars for take over - wait until the first few days of next quarter!!

    I'm amused at the fact that a Merc C180 is cheaper than a Renault 19
    16V !!
    
    tmp

    
    
    Now that the oil allowance has been taken out of the fuel allowance
    does anyone know the proceedure for obtaining oil for my Renault 19 16v
    which are known to use oil, or do I save the company money by not
    putting any in it?
    
    Richard(young@wlo)

    You could try putting it on your fleet card. Some folks have managed
    to do this. 
    
    However its not really a major expense. After all, even
    if you use a litre of oil per 1000 miles, 5 litres of oil costing less
    than a fiver should see you through a few hundred quid's worth of
    petrol.
    
    Royston

I have been hanging on until today before ordering my new car, in order to take
a look at what was available for take-over - since a number of people are
leaving at present, it seemed likely that at the start of Q4 there would be a
number of cars on the list.

I have just spoken to Pru Cotton in Car Fleet, and she tells me that as of last
week, Digital decided to abandon take-over for a three month trial period.  As a
result, there are no take-over cars for Q4.  Presumably this will be reviewed
near the end of Q4, and a decision will be made as to whether this is permanent
or not.

I guess it comes down to a balance between the penalty we pay to the lease
company for returning a car early versus the cost of having a car sitting around
doing nothing if it is not taken over.  Also in the balance is the fact that
more people are taking Vauxhalls these days, and so take-over is probably
reducing the number of Vauxhalls that we are taking a little ...

T

    Hi Richard,
    
    I've got an R19 16V too.... re oil, wait for the engine to drop out !!
    then you too could get a Vauxhall car !!
    
    Anyway, try asking for a pint/litre of oil from the garage next time
    you take the car for a service ?  or stop off at your friendly Renault
    garage and ask rfor a top up, if/when you need it ??
    
    Mine uses oil more on a long motorway haul or if you put your foot down
    abit. On average I put in 1/2 to 1 litre between services.
    
    See also note 1179.376 (my long ish term test), I think, or 1179 in 
    general for R19 things.
    
    Regards,
    
    - MARK -
    

    This is getting worse and worse for me.  I cannot replace my Astra GSi
    with anything equivalent for equivalent money.  I check the takeover
    list often but now that has been taken away :-(  If nothing reasonable
    appears on the take over list I was going to try and hang on until the
    new Cavalier comes out in October so all I can do is order test drives
    of obscure cars from Vauxhall that take ages to arrive :-)
    
    tmp

    Re last:
    
    That's because of the residual value is higher on a Merc.
    
    Dave

    I thought the actual residual value was irrelevant, it is the
    difference between the purchase price and the residual price that
    matters.  
    
    tmp

Royston,

It may only cost a couple of quid, but its the principal of the thing.

The car is not ours but is supposedly in our care, if that means we have to 
put oil in it, then my view would be to try and recover the expense in the 
normal way, via expenses. 

Stuart

    If you're running a 16v then you're not going to use the cheap oil, are
    you?
    
    There are a limited number of manufacturers whose handbooks say that
    the vehicles are designed to use oil - I think Land Rover is one.  I
    found that my R19 turbo diesel used oil, especially if I was cruising
    at high speed (130kph is legal on French autoroutes).
    
    I agree that it's a bit strong to hit people with a cost that's
    hitherto been covered by some sort of recompense.
    
    I'm also not impressed if the prices are based on a service station
    near REO - since the majority of us don't get to REO on a regular
    basis.
    
    <WHINGE_OVER>

    �If you're running a 16v then you're not going to use the cheap oil,
    are you
    
    Why not ? thats all the lease company pays for when your car is
    serviced.
    
    All 'cheap' oil i've seen meet all the standards for 20W 50 that are
    necessary for most cars. 
    
    If Renault don't use standard 20W/50 or 15W/50 during the service what
    do they use out of interest ? 
    
    Royston                      

    
    I used to use Mobil 1 in my MR2 at between 5 and 6 quid a litre
    depending on the garage. The MR2 would need a litre added every 2000
    miles. Meaning I was 10-12 quid out of pocket between the 6000 mile
    services. I did a 'deal' with the servicing garage where they would do 
    a 'little' extra work on the car and let me have an extra couple of 
    litres of oil to make do till the next service.
    
    POL.
    
    p.s. the garage recommended only synthetic oil for the MR2

�    I agree that it's a bit strong to hit people with a cost that's
�    hitherto been covered by some sort of recompense.
        
        When?  The cost of oil has been the driver's responsibilty for
        as long as I've had a company car (nearly 7 years). Not that
        it's cost me a penny in that time!
        
        Ian.

    >I thought the actual residual value was irrelevant, it is the
    >difference between the purchase price and the residual price that
    >matters.  
    
    >tmp
    
    ...and therefore cars with strong residual values (i.e. cars that retain
    greater than 50% of their new price at three years old) are cheaper
    to lease.
    
    Dave

    I thought the cost of oil was a constituent of the mileage rate, and
    that it was the last announcement that said something like: "now that
    cars don't use oil we've excluded it from the mileage rate".

    Roy,
    
    I always had decent oil in both my R5 and R19 from Renault services
    (Well I assume it was as it was detailed on the parts list)
    
    Greg

    
    Ditto (well on a 5 anyway) and my Rover's got a tag for some expensive
    synthetic oil on it showing the last oil change date now (Rover and
    Calibra used 10W/50 BTW).
    
    Mark

    �decent oil
    
    Greg, when I checked with Renault a few years back when I was
    interested in getting a R5GTT they told me that they wouuld use
    standard 'decent' oil as opposed to high performance oil as the
    lease company would only pay for the standard stuff.
    
    I can't understand anyone paying for expensive oil to top up their
    lease cars between services unless they have money to burn or
    intend buying the car at the end of the lease and are sure the
    expensive oil was used when it was serviced.
    
    The lease company only pay for things that will keep the car going
    during the lease period. It was surprise me that a modern 16v engine
    would suffer problems in 60,000 miles because it only used standard
    oil (as long as it was changed regularly).
    
    Royston

    
    re last.
    
    The pistons were changed at 38,000 miles on the MR2 and that was after
    having used synthetic oil. Don't know if they would have lasted any
    longer or shorter if I'd used normal everyday oil.
    
    POL.

    
    
    .....And whilst whinge-ing about the cost of Oil....
    
    What about Washer-bottle de-icer...who pays for that....??
    What about putting air into my tyres from machines at filling stations
    where you have to pay....???
    
    What about the purchase of a new air-freshner...???
    
    Jeeze are we all be rippied off by the Company or.......
    
    perhaps if all we've got to bitch about is the cost of
    oil in a lease car things are definitely improving.
    
                                                      
    Master-Skew
    
    

    >>There are a limited number of manufacturers whose handbooks say that
    >>the vehicles are designed to use oil - I think Land Rover is one.
    
    Can't think of ANY car engines that don't use oil. Or did you mean
    consume?          
    
    Phil Gill.

    re .13
    
    you forgot washing the damn car when it doesn't rain...
    
    but worst of all you forgot *driving* the car when all you can afford
    is a sodding Vauxhall....
    
    Richard.

    Ha Ha... MASTER-SKEW!!!!
    That's going back a bit Graham.
    
    Regards
    MAGNA-SEE

    When the 'new' scheme was announced there was something about not
    changing your allowance until you changed the car.
    
    Just going back through my old compensation change forms, I seem to
    have been on the same Car supplement for ever.
    
    What was the old supplement levels?
    
    Cheers,
    
    Greg

re.61:

You'll probably have to pay some money back then Greg.

Dave ;-)

    Don't forget the very strong boy racer element in a 19 16V. Young
    tearaways tend not to drive C180's and thus they will be cheaper
    because of the insurance factor.
    
    Having said that, my current ZX 16V is only rushing me #500 a year,
    mind you it is in the garage too much to get in an accident.

    
    re .50
    
    Even if a young tearaway DID drive a C180,he'd be hard pressed to tear
    anywhere! :^)
    
    Mark

    Why is everybody _so_ surprised when non-Vauxhall quotes are high ?
    
    We've been in the "vauxhall" scheme for nearly two years now.
    
    The principle is get a Vauxhall for a reasonable deal or pay through
    the nose for the non-Vauxhall of your choice.
    
    Royston

    Something just struck me to prove the Vauxhall deal is *very* good, I
    used to have a R19 16v, around 13k list, cost me 619 a year, now I've
    just got a Calibra SE4, list around 17k I think, and it's around 100
    pounds a year cheaper!
    
    Greg

I get a bit confused about costs of leasing, but I do keep most
of the mail I get about lease cars.

In June '93 I was looking for my next car
I got the following two quotes

1.                             INTEROFFICE MEMORANDUM
                             ----------------------

To      : ILETT, PHILIP                                 Date : 28 APR 93
Loc     : REOG/H3                                       From : G & A Purchasing
                                                        Loc. : REO F3

Subject: Your Quotation :- NISSAN SUNNY GTI 2.0 3DR H/B            
Driver Price    : �602   
Lease term      : 36  months / 60,000  miles
Quote number    : 015180 Date requested : 22 APR 93 Quote expires on 25 MAY 93
Extras          : As requested.

We would like to confirm that the requested vehicle can be supplied             
for the driver price shown above.                                               


2.                             INTEROFFICE MEMORANDUM
                             ----------------------

To      : ILETT, PHILIP                                 Date : 28 APR 93
Loc     : REOG/H3                                       From : G & A Purchasing
                                                        Loc. : REO F3

Subject: Your Quotation :- RENAULT CLIO 16V HATCHBACK              
Driver Price    : �157   
Lease term      : 36  months / 60,000  miles
Quote number    : 015181 Date requested : 22 APR 93 Quote expires on 25 MAY 93
Extras          : As requested.

We would like to confirm that the requested vehicle can be supplied             
for the driver price shown above.                                               
                                                                                
...............                                                                                

The prices quoted were the extra to be paid on top of the base car price
(which was some crazy figure like <level 8 supplement - 1300>).
However, I liked the price of the Clio 16V so I ordered it.

Then the way the price was quoted was changed and I now see the Clio (on my
compensation details) as costing 2,417 per year. In my opinion, this is a much
clearer way to see the cost of the lease car which I have.

The point of all this ? - well I have looked at the prices on VTX for Vauxhalls
and there is not much available around the 2,417 pound level. 

Corsa   SRI 1.4I 16V (82 PS) 3-DR H/B	 	   2511
Astra   LS 1.4I (82 PS) 4DR SAL                    2496
Cav     ENVOY1.7D 4DR SAL                          2677
Omega   EDITION S 2.0I  4DR SAL                    3864
Calibra 8V 2.0I 3DR COUPE                          3708

I reckon I was lucky getting in before the "so-called" special deal with Vauxhall 
was announced. I also reckon I'll be leaving the scheme next time, unless some 
fairly serious pay-rises come my way.

(OK, I know prices have gone up a bit in 2 years, but how much is reasonable ?)


Phil.

By the way the Clio had a list price of approx 13K
(from my P11/d)

Phil.

    Phil,
    
    According to VTX, Level 8 now gets �3560 as base car supplement.
    
    According to your figures, this would give you a clio plus �1143 to
    split between yourself and Mr Taxman, or you could just about have a
    Calibra.
    
    If I were you I'd be thinking that things were getting better!
    
    Peter

What used to happen was my compensation form looked like 

Base salary		   x
Car supp		1300
Car adjustment          -426


		       ------
Total left to me       x+874
		       ------

Then they changed the way the form looked and how they worked things out 


Base salary                x
Car supp                3560
Car adjustment         -2417 


                       ------
Total left to me       x+1143
                       ------

Now I look at the figures, this did, in fact, at the time, give me a bit of an increase,
but I can't remember how it worked (same car, same job etc., etc.) 

HOWEVER, todays prices come directly off the Car supplement (3560) and that's where 
I have to match 2417 and a Clio 16V equivalent to stay still. All I ask is that someone
shows me the Vauxhall which does that.

(Oh, did I forget to mention that someone must have forgotten to put my 
wage up for the last 2.5 years ?)


Phil.

    Phil,
    
    If you can work that one out you DESERVE a pay rise!
    
    Peter

    This all goes back to the fact that in the old days a Cavalier LS 1.6
    was and still is the car that the base supplement was based on and
    the SRi was what the level 8 was based on. In those days they were
    just as expensive to lease as other makes and models. Now that we 
    have the 'special' deal, the car supplement was reduced. This makes
    all the other quotes expensive. Its basically as simple as that.
    
    Its like in the old days is cost X to get an SRi.
    The special deal with Vauxhall allowed us to get an SRi for X-�1000
    therefore the supplement was reduced by (eg) �1000. 
    This makes automatically makes a non-vauxhall equivelent a �1000 more
    expensive straight away.
    
    Royston
    
    (the �1000 figure is just an example)
    
    Royston

    What has happened to the quote discussion note??????????????
    
    Mr Mod, do your stuff!
    
    All I come to this note for is QUOTES, not discussions!

    �Come on Dave, stamp this out 
    
    
    * FLAME ON*
    
    If this is a reference to the famous Dave Kerrell, he doesn't moderate
    in here my friend. Anyway, check out 2.193 .194 & .195
    
    I used to police this note heavily but no-one appeared to care as
    there were so few quotes posted.
    
    I would encourage discussion in the FY95 car scheme note (2288) rather than
    here but as your mod I'll do what you want. As long as I know where I
    stand.
    
    Perhaps some replies on whether you want this note to contain quotes
    only would be in order. Theres no point me asking you folks if you
    want it policed and noone replying except another moderator (2.194)
    and then moaning about there being discussion in here !
    
    *FLAME OFF*
    
    Royston (co mod)
    
    PS I'm outa here for 2 weeks so fend for yourselves
                                         

Royston, my apologies for mixing my moderators.

I think my view is clear, Quotes is for Quotes, there should be a seperate 
discussion topic.

Notes about specific topics which have already been discussed, should be 
entered in their respective notes.

I might be being a bit pedantic, and you're right there aren't many quotes 
around, but I would prefer not to wade through 10 notes discussing the Calibra 
airbag, when I'm looking for QUOTES.

Cheers,
Stuart

Recent quotes in this note confirm my rule-of-thumb that your quote on a
non-Vauxhall will be very close to 30% of the list price, whereas the prices for
Vauxhalls are around 22% ...

T

    Hi all
    
    Anyone know when to expect the Astra CDX on the list?
    
    I'm ordering over the next few weeks and will need to get a quote
    if there is no sign of the list being updated.
    
		Andy.
    

    
    re .1
    I sent a quote form off for the 2.0 Astra CDX on friday and I
    will post the price when I recieve the reply.
    
    

    
    fellow engineer asked for a quote on a Astra CDX 2.0i EST  �3895  but I
    don't have the quote No, but then again, I think he just phoned up and
    asked ??
    
    - MARK -

    You can't win. Now we have relocated discussion away from the
    'Quotes' note, were getting quotes posted in the car scheme note.
    
    I give up
    
    Royston 

    Don't give up Royston, I know it's a pain, but believe me, it's worth
    it...
    
    Cheers, Laurie$been_there_done_that.

    Thanks for the encouragement Laurie. You've no idea how much it is
    appreciated.
    
    I've modified the topic title.
    
    Thanks folks for your cooperation.
    
    Royston

    I should imagine(tm) that the amount of quotes being received will
    slowly drop off, as everyone realises the cost!
    
    Greg

    
    re: the Escort Cabrio quote in 2290.whatever
    
    Not surprising when the Astra convertible is about four grand for the
    basic 1600 model (last time I looked).  Presumably the insurance for 
    'em is through the roof (ahem).
    
    Chris.

    
    I should write to my MP about it.....

    Disgusting bit of news....!!!

    I was hoping that the Astra CDX might be a good bargain as it would be
    a new car on the list.... However, just a quick look at the prices
    shows that the Astra is more expensive than the Cavalier ! i.e.
    comparing the 2.0 16V.  Furthermore, automatic transmission seems to be
    cheaper if you order it as an extra (149) instead of ordering the car
    with it already on ?!?@
    
    I shall certainly be continuing to look for a private car rather than
    stay in the scheme.
    
    tmp
    

    
    Yes, the CDX quote was expensive! Makes you wonder wether Digital
    has now realised it won't buy enough Vauxhalls to qualify for
    the supposedly super discount. Still, Digital will have saved a lot
    of *our* money by reducing *our* supplements.
    
    Perhaps that's also the reason they stopped the cars for takeover?
    Another vain attempt to force people to buy Vauxhalls.
    
    Richard.

    Heres a question to anyone out there with a LeasePlan vehicle.
    
    I've just had a flick through the rather swish 'Filofax' driver's 
    handbook that a colleague has just received with his new car and it
    specifically states that the contract does not include a replacement
    vehicle.
    
    Does this mean they won't supply a relief car when the lease car is off the
    road for mechanical repair or routine service ?
    
    Royston

    
    Strange.  I haven't checked but presumably my contract documents say
    that same (Leaseplan stuff must be fairly standard).  I had a hire car
    for the day when my car was being serviced - although they gave me a
    Toyota that sounded like the gearbox was going to drop in the road at
    any moment.
    
    Chris.

    Chris, as you say it must be a fairly standard arrangement so if they
    have supplied a relief car the reference must be for relief cars when
    the car is off the road for accident repair which is the same as it it
    has always been.
    
    Royston

    It might be that Leaseplan don't supply the replacement vehicle, 'cos
    its covered in warrenty with Vauxhall??

    
    Maybe it's worded like that in case you trash the vehicle completely
    and the company has to stump up for literally a replacement vehicle?
    
    Perhaps someone should call car-fleet and check it out (not that I
    think I'm going to total the car one of these days or anything!).
    
    Chris.

        The terms of the Leaseplan contract aren't relevant to us. Our
        car scheme entitles us to a replacement vehicle, it is up to
        Digital how they chose to fund it.
        
        The Hertz & PHH contracts don't cover the first day of hire, so
        I assume they just bill the company.
        
        Ian.

    
    re:2290.62
    
    How have Digital convinced us it's not a rip-off?
    
    They haven't.
    
    How could the price have risen so much?
    
    It's all been discussed, but buggered if we know why.
    
    Chris.

    The bottom line to the company car scheme is
    have a Vauxhall or pay through the nose for a car of your choice.
    
    I don't think car fleet have to justify any of the 'other manufacturer'
    quotes.
    
    If you can't stand having a Vauxhall its probably worth coming out the
    scheme and getting a new car on a scheme like Ford's 'Options' or
    Vauxhall's Choices 1-2-3. 
    
    Royston

    
    >>I don't think car fleet have to justify any of the 'other
    >>manufacturer' quotes.
    
    Very true.  However, in light of the time that has elapsed between this
    policy being introduced and the fact that most people will have changed
    their cars (how long has the policy been in place?  2 years?) within
    this time - presumably for a Vauxhall, or left the scheme - then how
    does the change to a preferred vendor policy look now?  Is it saving
    the company money, are we getting a better deal?  Who has the facts and
    will they divulge them?!  Are there plans for a review of the policy?
    
    Chris.

    I was talking to a Citroen dealer yesterday, one who supplies a lot of
    cars to Hertz Leasing.
    
    He said that the manufacturers are already pulling out of the tied
    fleet purchase deals.  Citroen have been out over a year.
    
    The problem is it's costing them a fortune and the fleet car market has
    meanwhile gone very 'soggy'.  They're blaming it on the shaky
    economy/redundancy/cost saving syndrome and it's now being aggravated
    by uncertainty over the new VAT rules which are about/have come into
    effect. 
    
    Nett effect is, he says, "Don't put money on the Digital/GM deal being
    renewed by GM at such a favourable rate".
    
    Nick

    
    The quotes in .59 (4k) and .63 (4.7k) for a Mazda MX5 seems to put a
    very high premium on having metallic paint!
    
    Richard.

    
    re:.2290.63
    
    How come the California is so cheap?  I thought that was a much better
    model than the others?
    
    Chris.

    �...renewed by GM at such a favourable rate
    
    This may mean the cost to Digital will be more but it shouldn't make
    any difference to us as the car allowance will have to raised
    accordingly.
    
    Royston

    .136
    
    But it should make a difference in that the loading for GM, or against
    non-GM, in the lease costs will be removed.
    
    I.e. we'll be back to the pre-GM deal days --- whoopeeee!!!!
    
    Incidentally, I recall that part of the 'sales' campaign to us was that
    1/3 of people already had GM cars.  They couldn't, or wouldn't, see
    that the other 2/3 were going to be disgruntled about it.

    MX-5 1.8i California is the model between 1.8i and 1.8iS

    Same as 1.8i + 15" alloy wheels, 195/50VR15 tyres, PAS, Sunburst Yellow
    exterior colour, numbered plaque, special wallet, Clarion CRX601R RDS
    audio unit.

    Only 300 will be imported - so a kind of limited edition !

    Rob

    
    Looks like you'll be getting a Calibra then Rob.  Perhaps they can do
    you a set of pop-up lights if you ask 'em nicely?
    
    Chris.

�    Only 300 will be imported - so a kind of limited edition !
        
        In that case the quote is irrelevent. When the lease company
        finds it either can't get a discount or can't get one at all,
        they'll reject your order.
        
        Ian (been there).

    Re 2290.65 �gone up and consists of less
    
    One pattern that has emerged over the years is that in July the
    car allowance and preferred list is set for the year. 
    Car prices and therefore lease costs continue to rise throughout
    the year and as the allowance remains the same, the driver price may
    well be a lot higher than an earlier quote. The secret is to get quotes
    in when the new allowance is set. Of course the preferred list is set
    in stone for the year. I wouldn't be surprised if the lease costs in the
    PCL are artificial just to determine the driver price as I can't see
    LeasePlan or whoever freezing the lease costs for a whole year.
    
    Just my opinion of course...
    
    Royston
    
    PS Re .-1 Ian, I believe the expression is BTDT (been there, done that!)

    re .140
    
    I don't quite understand this? I've known a few people who have got
    quotes, ordered and then been told they can't do it for that price.
    
    Is the quote not legally binding then, is it just a wastr of time?
    
    Greg

    I'm sure I've seen a mail recently telling me that the milage rate
    stays at 8p. The reasoning behind this being that petrol had gone up
    but as cars no longer used oil then the 8p no longer covered oil costs.
    Therfor the two cancelled each other out.
    
    My car burns oil, 2 ltrs every 7000 miles, the garage says this is normal
    (they would wouldn't they?). I don't mind puttiong oil in it but need
    reimbursing for the cost.  Expenses say if I can produce a copy of the
    mail they will pay for the oil. If anybody has this mail in their
    account can they send it to me please   Guy Bracey @BBP.
    
    thanks     Guy
    
    Ps The car is a 16v Calibra (Ecotec engine) anybody else had this
    problem?
    
                                          

    
    16V engines often burn oil in the first few thousand miles, but
    generally this settles down after 10,000 miles at most.
    
    If it continues to burn oil, I'd be worried.
    
    Mark

    �Expenses say if I can produce a copy of the mail they will pay for the
     oil.
    
    This is quite an exciting precedent as it means we can all claim for
    oil.
    
    This was discussed to death in an earlier note. The conclusion of which
    was we all need a life if we are bothered about the few quid it costs
    for oil when we are spending hundreds on fuel.
    
    Royston

The mail follows:


From:	RDGENG::RDGENG::MRGATE::"SUBURB::RDGMTS::REO::RDGMTS::AM_WMSG::WORLDMESSAGE" 13-FEB-1995 17:46:12.77
To:	@Distribution_List
CC:	
Subj:	Mileage rates

From:	NAME: Shoaib Quraeshi <WORLDMESSAGE@AM_WMSG@RDGMTS@REO>
To:     See Below

         To:	   All employees
         From:	   Shoaib Quraeshi, Country General Manager
         
         Subject:  Mileage rates
         
         _____________________________________________________________
         
         Following recent increases in the duty on fuel announced by 
         the Chancellor of the Exchequer in his autumn budget, the 
         Territory Management Team has reviewed the rates at which we 
         reimburse employees for mileage driven on company business.
         
         A breakdown of the factors included in the review is 
         attached.
         
         As a result of the review, we have decided that there will be 
         no change to the current rates of reimbursement.  
         
         Company mileage will continue to be reimbursed at 8p per mile 
         for car supplement holders.  For employees who do not receive 
         a car supplement and use their own car for company business, 
         the rate will remain at 32p per mile for the first 100 miles 
         per week and at 8p per mile thereafter (a maximum of 4,000 
         miles at 32p can be claimed in a single tax year).
         
         Regards,
         Shoaib

                     ELEMENTS COMPRISING THE MILEAGE RATE
                              13th February 1995
         
         _____________________________________________________________ 
         
         
         The elements
         ~~~~~~~~~~~~
         The same calculation formula has been used consistently for a 
         number of years.  It is based on the following elements:
         
         -  the cost of unleaded petrol at a given reference site 
            garage
         -  an average fuel consumption of 30 mpg
         -  0.5p per mile for oil consumption
         
         
         Threshold at which a change is considered
         ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
         A change to the reimbursement rate is usually deemed 
         necessary when the cost per mile resulting from the above 
         calculation moves up or down by 5% or more.
         
         
         Price movement at this review
         ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
         At this review the calculation showed that the cost per mile 
         had moved up by less than 1% as a result of the budget 
         increases in duty - not enough to trigger a potential change 
         to the reimbursement rate.
         
         This can be attributed to the fact that prior to the budget 
         there was a distinct downward trend in petrol prices.  
         
         
         Oil allowance
         ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
         At this review we decided that it is no longer appropriate to 
         include an oil allowance of 0.5p per mile in the calculation 
         as cars now use significantly less oil.   
         
         When this amount was deducted from the cost-per-mile figure, 
         the figure was below 8p per mile.  However, the downward 
         fluctuation was also less than our 5% change threshold, so no 
         reduction in the reimbursement figure was considered to be 
         necessary.
         
         

To Distribution List:

<deleted>

    Apart from leaks I've never needed to put oil into any of my Vauxhall
    engines, 8v or 16v. I think you have a problem.
    
    And yes, I do check periodically.
    
    Andrew

    
    	Anyone had a quote for the MGF - either 1.8 or 1.8 VVC ? I know
    	it's not out 'till Sept, but that could fit in quite nicely if
    	it's affordable....
    
    	Andy.

    
re: 2290.66 KERNEL::CARPENTERS  -< Rover 220SLi >-
    
>>    The driver price for a Rover 220 SLI with metallic paint is #5401.
    
    
    This is an amazing quote for a �14,050 motor car! 
    
    Richard.

    
    >>    This is an amazing quote for a �14,050 motor car!
    
    Not on the Digital employee's car scheme it's not - point taken though.
    
    Chris.

One way to make everyone choose Vauxhall would be to keep pushing up the lease
costs of non-Vauxhall cars, any takers will subsidise the Vauxhall scheme thus
saving the company even more money.

Dave.

           
    re:.151
    
    With all respect Dave, I can't see that increasing further the costs of
    non-Vauxhalls would create any more subsidy worth using.  The values
    involved wouldn't be that great so it would probably pay for maybe five 
    minutes...or rather with the ongoing data centre consolidations...an hour 
    or two of ALL-IN-1 use for carfleet staff.
    
    Chris.

    At the price that Rover is, it must be cheaper to get a bank loan and
    buy the bloody thing!
    
    Laurie.

    re .153
    
    Certainly seems like it.
    
    Clive

    
    Given the price of the non-Vauxhalls, one might draw the conclusion
    that we are being surcharged to a much greater extent than the official
    �100 admin fee. From the prices we are seeing a surcharge of �1,000 
    per year (at least) seems possible.
    
    Although this surcharge probably does push some people to buy Vauxhalls
    (and help get Digital a larger backhander from Vauxhall) others will
    drop out and overall will reduce the number of people leasing cars.
    So how does this benefit 'Leaseplan'? Perhaps they are wholly owned or
    operated by Digital or Vauxhall? Otherwise what leasing company would
    want to lease fewer and fewer vehicles? Anyone know anything about
    them?
    
    One of the other strange things about the '94 scheme changes was that
    although lease contracts changed to be 36 months/60,000 miles, the
    price of Vauxhalls went down significantly. The difference in lease
    price between 36 months/36,000 and 36 months/60,000 is considerable.
    A Cavalier 1.8LS is about �3,400 pa externally inc RFL,breakdown,
    maintenance, insurance etc. for 36 months/36,000. The lease cost for 
    36 months/60,000 is over �4,300 pa. Cost on the scheme is �2845!
    Now, I might believe we managed to negotiate a saving by force feeding
    the employees Vauxhalls. But are we really supposed to believe that 
    Vauxhall pay Digital �4,500 for every 1.8 LS Cavalier we lease for three 
    years? 
      
    Apart from any other negative effects, one of the outcomes of the last
    set of changes to the lease scheme was that everyone now pays for
    leases of 60,000 miles - wether you do that much mileage or not. As
    Alastair Wright said when introducing the '91 changes where quotes
    /charges were based on 36 months 36000 miles "we shouldn't penalise people 
    who  do a high business mileage".  Now we just penalise everyone. 
    Come back Alastair.... 
    
    Richard.

    Even more surprising when I tell you that my quote for 4k included
    metallic paints!!
    

    
    	Charles, can you let me know the quote no. please?
    
    	Andy.

As I understood it at the time, we didn't get a subsidy, but the preferred 
suppliers passed them from the factory to us with a hefty discount. Thus 
the price to the lease company was up to 25% cheaper than the MLP.

Thus a �12,000 listed car only cost the lease company �9,000. This saving 
had to be passed to digital, who then set their allowances based on 
purchasing at this level.

The minimum allowance (of �2950 was it?) would be sufficient to cover the 
leasing costs (bearing in mind the car still has a resale value)
example
cost of car 	�9,000
running costs	�3,000	wild guess!
		12,000

Allowance x 3	�8,850
resale of car	�3,150
		12,000

What a surprise!

So this probably accounts for the 1.8 LS mentioned in .155. However, I 
agree that the cost of some non-vauxhalls is very questionable!.

Richard 

    Chucked the quote no away i'm afraid! It was a matter of 10 weeks ago
    so i don't know why there has been such a hike. If i find th quote no
    i'll post it on Notes.

    Going back a bit to .148 �Anyone had a quote for the MGF
    
    Until this official list price (and the car) is available the lease
    company won't process a quote.
    
    Royston

    Re these high non Vauxhall quotes.
    
    I still say the reason for the high quotes is that the allowance has
    not been reviewed for nearly a year and as the preferred list is 'set
    in stone' they are not affected. However, as car prices continue to
    rise so will lease costs and these are reflected in the quotes.
    
    Royston

    Re Quotes for Renault Laguna's:
    
    Mr/Ms Wigglesworth - looking at the two quotes you just got for RXE's
    they look much higher than the other Laguna quotes. All the other FY95
    quotes are at 32% of retail price, yours appear to be at 35%. Were the
    cars as you stated or were they Automatics which would be closer to
    32%?
    
    Yours interestedly (considering Laguna RTi vs new Alfa 155 2.0TS 16v)
    
    Paul

       Confirmed - the Laguna quote of 5195 for an RXE with no optional 
       extras. I am going to go for a Cavalier CDX for a saving of �1000 
       with many many extras.

Peter W

    Peter, 
    
    If its not too late, I was curious and checked with LeasePlan. The
    Laguna quotes were incorrect. Yours SHOULD have been #4810 with the
    alarm, #4724 without. Contact Lucy Marper if you want to take them up,
    they are still valid.
    
    regards
    
    Paul

    After trying to find some rough correlation between list rice and quote
    value I have determined the quote calculation used by Lease Plan:
    
    Driver price = 4k + some 4 digit random number
    
    How else could you explain a Mercedes C180 being cheaper than a Rover
    220?
    
    Stephen.

    >> How else could you explain a Mercedes C180 being cheaper than a
    >> Rover 220?
    
    Residual value?

    Don't know about Rover & Merc, but all the Laguna quotes (after
    correction) are within 0.1/.2 of 32% of list price (ex Delivery/Road
    Tax)
    
    Paul

    Re: .167
    
    32% of 14050 is 4496 and the quote was 5400! This is more like 38%!
    
    My Mazda MX-3 quote was 35.5% (6006/16900) but the MX-5 quote is about
    28%. Also the quote for Ford Probe is almost 44%!
    
    It just seems random...
    
    Stephen.

    
    I'd expect Mazda quotes to depend on time of year and which dealers
    Leaseplan use. Mazda have a restriction on the number of cars they can
    import, and as they can sell their quota of most models several times over
    at list price they don't usually do deals - only when a new model is being
    introduced.
    
    G.
    

    Its quite worrying to see that several quotes appear to be 'wrong' - 
    presumably some people are now paying more than they need to? or does
    it mean that everyone now makes that extra call to Leaseplan to check
    the figures thereby incurring even more admin overhead?
    
    
    
    Xtine

    I rechecked the BMW quotes, the two 318is quotes are at 28% of RRP and
    the 320i Touring and 328i are 32%. 
    
    My theory would be that the 320/328 are higher because of higher
    insurance (eg a 318i 4 door is Gp 11 vs a 320i 4 door at Gp 13) and the
    BMW quotes are lower than Renault 'cos of better residuals & lower
    running costs. This probably means that the Alfa I want will be around
    50% of RRP!!
    
    Quotes should have a few basic elements:
    
    RRP less discount
    Insurance
    Relative running costs
    Relative residuals
    
    Hence BMWs & Mercs are more competitive than Japanese cars but lose out
    to Fords on low discounting.
    
    Re -1
    
    The "wrong" quotes were issued while Lucy was on holiday so it was
    probably a failed check procedure that let them through. I reckon a
    simple sanity check on whether the quote is what you expect should
    suffice.
    
    Paul

    
    Lower running costs of a BMW? Presumably this takes into account
    'excepted' problems with a Renault, because there's no way a Renault
    would cost more to service than a BMW (not to mention the fact that a 
    Rover 220 SLi only needs to visit the garage once every 12,000 miles!).
    
    Mark
    
    PS Which Alfa do you fancy, Paul (post a reply elsewhere if you
    prefer),

    Mark,
    
    155 2.0TS 16v - the new revised one with a whizzy sports pack for black
    alloys & spoiler etc etc
    
    Expected Quote: #5630, likely quote #7000+ :-)
    
    Paul
    
    ps - good to see McNish doing well eh?

    
     � -< Haven't you got a better job to go to Saxby? >-
    
     Not at the moment, no :^)
    
     � ps - good to see McNish doing well eh?
    
     One second place doesn't a season make :^)
    
    Mark
    

    Hoping to sell a lot of Turbolasers so you can afford the Alfa then
    Paul ;^)
    
    
    Greg

    To close the rat hole....
    
    Hoping the *ABU* sells a lot of TurboLasers to afford the Alfa (& the
    TVR for the personal car!)
    
    Paul

    Check out ROCKS::UK_DIGITAL 232.31 if you intend taking your lease car
    abroad.
    
    Royston

    The Calibra DTM prices are for cloth I was told yesterday. Leather and
    Air Conditioning are extra but they didn't have the prices available.f

    The reason I have heard for the change in insurance cover was a rather
    tragic accident involving a young, non-employee driver and a fatality. 
    At which point Zurich 'realised' the cover they were providing and
    sought to adjust the premium for renewal.
    
    My sons are disappointed that the Digital France (?) scheme wasn't
    implemented.  This allows drivers with two years full licence to drive.

    Chaps,
    
    I have asked insurance services if individuals may extend the cover for
    named drivers (e.g. family members) for an additional premium. I'll
    post any response here.
    
    Peter
    

    I am surprised there is not more discussion about this further
    erosion of benefit. Not that it affects me personally but it 
    will hit folks who are using their company car to teach their kids to
    drive. We are taxed like crazy for the benefit of the company and all
    the time that benifit is being chipped away.
    
    If there is one thing I think they should change (and this may be an
    unpopular view) is that employees under 25 should be restricted from
    having performance/sports cars on the scheme for their own protection.
    
    Royston

    Maybe I'm an exception but I do not see this as a negative issue. Many
    other companies allow only one other nominated driver. I was amazed
    when I arrived at Digital and found that any Tom, Dick or Kevin could
    drive my car (then a Pug 205 1.9GTi). 
    
    Under 25 year old's are well proven to be more accident prone and if
    this reduces our premium and hence on-cost to employees, great. I also
    do not buy the driving lesson thing. I am *very* anti people being
    taught to drive by non-approved people. It passes bad habits on and
    should be discouraged.
    
    BTW, I would also support the U25 employee restriction on cars above a
    certain insurance group too.
    
    I do not see erosion, just changes. Digital's benefit package is still
    competitive for hardware vendors. Its just not industry leading
    anymore. But then neither are our profits & margins.
    
    Paul 

Well, I think this constitutes a change in conditions of employment. I have 
two children (!) 20 and 21 who drive my lease car, or rather did drive the 
car. This was part of the package, and has been for the last 16 years of my 
time with this company. Hmmm - paranoia (!) maybe this is linked to the 
failure to reinstate 15 year service awards .... NO! I don't feel able to add 
a smiley face.

I too am very annoyed at this change. My son has just got his provisional
license, I was going to teach him to drive. I am now unable to do this. If
it was my private car I would have been able to. This to me was another of 
the advantages of leasing even though it costs me more than running my own 
car. I assume that the insurance cost that was on the original quote include
this cover and so we should now see a reduced lease cost!!!
-dg-

    This is definitly a benefit errosion, my daughter will be learning to
    drive in Nov, She'll love it when I tell her she has to buy a car!!
    
    Digital re negotiates our insurance every year the conversation must
    have gone somthing like this " We'll give you an extra 5% if you
    (Digital) restrict the drivers"  Digital "OK we'll withdraw another
    benifit from the workers, they won't mind we've screwed them so much in
    the last few years they are suffering from terminal apathy anyway"
    
    At a time when Digital is trying to re-motivate it's employees this is
    not a smart move.
    
    The IAM have proved that although driving lessons are a must the
    highest L test pass rates are achieved by drivers who get lots of experience
    driving different cars with different people.
     
    Do we have any proof that Digital drivers under 25 are more accident
    prone than the rest of us ???  Stopping these people having high
    powered cars will be another errosin of benefit to another minority
    group.
    
	
    Guy        :-{
    
    
    

    �Wot no learners!
    
    I believe learner drivers are still allowed except they must be over
    25.
    
    Royston

    
    re 2288.186
    
    >I believe learner drivers are still allowed except they must be over
    >25.
    
    Not according to the mail. It states that over 25s must have a full
    driving licence.
    
    POL.

    
    re:.182
    
    >>    do not buy the driving lesson thing. I am *very* anti people being
    >>taught to drive by non-approved people. It passes bad habits on and
    >>should be discouraged.
    
    I agree with the sentiment that people shouldn't be taught to drive by
    non-approved people, the bad habits thing is mostly true.  What I
    disagree with strongly is the fact that it *is* an erosion of benefits,
    and also whilst I am not personally affected as yet, I may be in
    future.  What you fail to point out is that any learner driver gains
    more experience the more they drive, which increases their chance of
    passing the test.  If the learner in question cannot have access to a
    car (e.g. if it's the only one in the family and is on a Digital lease)
    then they are being deprived of the experience they could possibly
    benefit from; this is wrong.
    
    I agree with the comment made by Royston(?) regarding the fact that it
    isn't normally the age of the driver, but the drivers experience which
    matters most.  Obviously someone aged 25 who has just passed their test
    should not be as experienced, and therefore more prone to accidents
    potentially, than someone who is 22 or 23 who has four or five years
    driving experience - it doesn't make sense, but I don't know how these
    policies are created.
    
    Chris.

Stepping quickly aside from the question of erosion of benefits or not, I have a
simple comment concerning under 25s driving company cars:  there is no ban on
them driving them.  They simply cannot do it under Digital's insurance, and I
think I agree with that.  I too was amazed when I realized just how wide the
cover was.

So, for those who want an Under 25 driving their car, what do you do?  Well, you
have to get insurance for that driver.  You are right to ask Digital's Insurance
Department to quote for it, and I sincerely hope they will.  You should also ask
others to quote for it too.

Now the big question is, should Digital past on the cost of that extra insurance
to you, assuming they quote?  My personal feeling is yes, but I suspect there
will be a vocal minority here who say no!

T

    Leaving aside wether Digital should be insuring the under 25s, this is
    definitely another erosion of employee benefits. And yet again, the
    communication of the change, like the foreign travel debacle has been
    completely screwed up.
    
    I feel a little less put out about the change (and not so heavily hit in 
    the pocket) since the benefit has effectively been withdrawn from family
    and friends and not directly from me. Still considering the changes 
    that have already happened to the car scheme over the last two years
    eg:

    1. Employees all now pay for leases of 60,000 miles when we ALL used
       to pay for 30,000/36,000 

    2. That Digital charges an additional �1000 per annum to those who
       don't lease Vauxhalls
    
    
    If the insurance is the only change this year (ha ha) then maybe we
    are getting off lightly.
    
    Richard

 Hi,

 This note refers to a mail sent recently by Chris Palmer 
 detailing changes in the cover and use of Digital Fleet Vehicles.

 The message stated:
 
 "Digital Fleet Vehicles will be insured for Employee and Spouse/
  Co-habitee (with full licence), and any full licenced driver aged
  25 years and over only."

 Does anyone out there know the answers to the following questions?

 1. Can the Employee and Spouse/Co-habitee be under 25 years?
 
 2. What exactly is the legal definition of a 'Co-habitee'?

 Many thanks,

 Emer

re.191:

>1. Can the Employee and Spouse/Co-habitee be under 25 years?

Yes.

> 2. What exactly is the legal definition of a 'Co-habitee'?

I think it would be fun to send this question to Chris Palmer and see if he can
answer it! If you do it, please post the response here.

Dave.

re .191

> 2. What exactly is the legal definition of a 'Co-habitee'?

My dictionary defines cohabit as 'to live together' so obviously a cohabitee is
someone who lives with you. So as long as your son/daughter lives with you & is 
over 25 then they can _still_ drive the company car covered by the Digital 
insurance.

Nigel

>>> So as long as your son/daughter lives with you & is 
>>> over 25 then they can _still_ drive the company car covered by the Digital 
>>> insurance.
    
    ...but if they're over 25 they can drive it anyway !
    
    G.

    
    According to the dictionary we've got here...(Roy Shelley's) co-habit
    means "to live together AS HUSBAND AND WIFE". I was speaking to
    leaseplan about anoppther matter and happened to mention this to them
    to which they replied: "It means the person you share your life with".
    
    Sons and Daughters or anyone else for that matter will not be covered
    till they reach 25.
    
    Ian.

    
    > anoppther
    
    What did they put in my tea this morning?
    
    Ian.

        As someone has already said, none of these dictionary definitions
        mean a thing, it is the *legal* definition that matters. If you
        end up in court, don't expect your Collins Gem to cut much ice!
        
        Ian.

 Hi,

 I sent a mail to Chris Palmer asking him the questions in .191 and
 received the following reply:


Date:        30/06/95 13:15:00
From:        Chris Palmer @REO
Subject:     RE: Query regarding new car users..
To:          EMER FITZPATRICK

Emer,
   
   The Insurance policy will allow the use by any employee and 
   his/her spouse, irrespective of age.
   
   Co-habitee may be regarded as "live in partner".  We have used 
   this to cater for non-married couples and also persons living with 
   people of the same gender.   
   
   Regards,
   Chris

re.198:

>may be regarded

There's still some doubt then?

Dave.

Anyone know how we are doing with the Vauxhall contract? Any signs of it 
being reversed in favour of another manufacturer? 

I think I'm being wound up - due to my deep depression about  the prospect 
of a Foxhole - but a rumour, I'm told, is circulating that Rover/BMW are 
being spoken to.

Rupert 

    
>>> of a Foxhole - but a rumour, I'm told, is circulating that Rover/BMW are 
>>> being spoken to.
    
    It wouldn't surpise me at all, given our involvement with the Rover
    BPMS project - it's supported by my colleagues here in Warrington.
    However, now that we're using a third party leasing company I think it
    would be more likely to be 'thrown open' again with the Lease company
    quoting the best prices they can get for each make/model - there is no
    way Digital can guarantee to lease x cars from one manufacturer no
    matter what the deal.
    
    Graham

    Has anybody asked car fleet if the change in VAT that comes into effect
    on the 1st August will give any reduction in lease costs on cars
    delivered after that date ?????

    Presumably you were involved in an incestuous relationship with a son
    or daughter they could drive?
    
    Of course, I suppose the book could get thrown at you if it was tested
    in court :-)

    
    I submitted requests for quotes recently and was told the delay in
    replying was because of the extra calculations necessary as a result of
    the changes in law. So it seems the changes will be implemented.
    
    I was also told that more than 70% of Digital's car fleet is now Vauxhall.
    
    Dave
    
    

Hi All,

I am going on holiday to France at the end of the month and had planned to
share the driving with two other college mates with who I share a house
in Portsmouth. Unfortunately, they are both under 25 (although they have full
licenses).

Someone mentioned about the possibility of extending the Digital insurance....
did they have any luck. Also, is it possible to do this for a short period of
time ie. the two weeks I am on holiday ??

Prompt replies would be appreciated as I have only just realised that I am
quickly running out of time to sort this out !!

Regards

Barry
(and once more BUGGER !!)

	Hmmmm...has anyone else out there just received their
	"super duper" new LeasePlan Accident Management info. with
	a copy of the insurance certificate ?

	I have, and the certificate shows, and I quote :

		5. Persons or classes of persons entitled to drive:

	   	     Any person who is driving on the order or with the
	   	     permission of the Policyholder.

		     (Provided that the person driving holds a
	    	      licence to drive the vehicle or has held
	              and is not disqualified from holding or
	              obtaining such a licence)



	The policyholder is Digital

	Soooo...a few questions:

	1) There appears to be no documented (on the certificate)
	   restriction regarding under 25 & non-cohabiting *;-)
	   drivers - hence if the police were to request production
	   of the certificate no offence would be disclosed...

	2) Again...no mention of provisional licence holders
	   being excluded...I believe that a provisional licenced
	   driver who complies with all other "L" restrictions
	   is covered.

	2) Do other drivers drive with the permission of the
	   policyholder or with the permission of the vehicle
	   "keeper" ?

	
	   What do you think....am I being thick here ?

	
	Kevin_confused 

        
�		5. Persons or classes of persons entitled to drive:
�
�	   	     Any person who is driving on the order or with the
�	   	     permission of the Policyholder.

        I suspect Digital would argue that as the Policyholder, they
        don't give permission to under-25's and learners.
        
        Ian.

I interpreted the policyholder as any representative of Digital, so
perhaps we can specify for ourselves who is allowed to drive?

Chris.

    Barry,
    
    I was one of the ones who said they had mailed Insurance Services to
    ask for options for extending the cover. No response as of yet, but
    they may just be finalising the conditions ;-)
    
    I'll let you know if a response does come.
    
    I was also talking to someone who had tried to get his own insurance to
    cover the under 25's, but he'd had no luck.
    
    Peter

	Re; .207

	Yup...that's what I'd guess....but how is Mr. Plod going
	to know what Digital "think" ?  My point is that if
	someone under 25/learner/non-cohabitee etc. is seen
	driving by Mr. Plod and they are given a seven-day
	wonder, the insurance certificate is about as much use 
	as a chocolate fireguard !  According to it they are insured !

	Usually (particularly on my own insurance for my previous
	private car) drivers under 25 are specifically excluded
	from the insurance certificate.

	Kevin_over25_fulllicence_withspouse_but_still_interested *8-)

I imagine the problems would start when an accident occurred - 'cos then the
interpretation of the words of the insurance are going to be 'discussed'  -
because someone somewhere is going to have to pay for any damage!!!  For
complying with a 'please present your documents...'  proabbaly no issue.

>> 'please present your documents...'  proabbaly no issue.

	Yes...I agree that an accident would "solve" the issue *8-)

	However, up until that point I wouldn't think that the
	insurance certificate provided is worth the paper it is
	written on and it would allow uninsured use with little chance
	of detection.

	I wonder what the "old" Digital insurance certificate would have
	said  - was it any different ?

	I'll shut-up now *;-)

	Kevin.

>	I wonder what the "old" Digital insurance certificate would have
>	said  - was it any different ?

from memory (not perfect, as many will testify!) the previous insurance
certificate had exactly the same wording.

Chris.

Peter,

Thanks for the reply..........could you give me the mail address of insurance
services please. Also, do you happen to have their phone number....I'll see if 
I can get an idea over the phone......!!

Regards

Barry
(P.s. How long ago did you apply)

    I've just checked VTX and notice another important change to the
    insurance arrangements. It used to be that DEC would automatically
    provide cover when test driving any make of car providing the request
    goes through the manufacturer's fleet demo. It now states that cover
    is provided _only_ for cars in the PCL.
    
    Royston

    re: -1 which meant when I wanted to test a new 2.2 Frontera Estate, and
    the garage said they only had a 2.8TD Estate, I couldn't because it
    hadn't made the PCL. Actually I went on an 'accompanied' drive & used
    their insurance. 
    
    As we are supposed to arrange test drives thru' one of the 5 authorised
    dealers, is cover only provided for PCL cars which are test driven from
    them? I've been getting brochures & the drive from my local Vauxhall
    dealer.
    
    Andy

    I've just received the insurance pack from Lease Plan. It seems quite
    clear that
    
    . The policy holder is Digital
    
    . Anyone can drive with the policy holder's permission - and permission
      is only given to those with a full driving license over 25 which we 
      were informed about seperately.
    
    . European breakdown cover at no extra cost.
    
    Royston

>    . Anyone can drive with the policy holder's permission - and permission
>      is only given to those with a full driving license over 25 which we 
>      were informed about seperately.
    
this is the bit I'm having difficulty with.  Who can speak on behalf
of the policyholder; any employee, the cost centre manager, Chris Palmer,
the insurance dept., the MD?  I wish they wouldn't be so ambiguous!

Chris.

    �I wish they wouldn't be so ambiguous!
    
    It was communicated to us by Chris Palmer (big chief in the insurance
    dept (and helpful guy)) that Zurich have imposed the no under 25, no
    learner restrictions. Nothing ambiguous there.
    
    Royston

Slight rathole, I guess, but my father's company had a similar policy, but the 
only people allowed to drive their cars had to actually be employed by the 
company.  So, my father would "employ" me whenever I wanted/needed to drive the 
car.  Apparently this had actually been tested in a claim somewhere, and was a 
valid way of insuring me on the car.  Mind you, if I had had to claim, I'd've 
been up the creek anyway, because I'm 20 yrs old and therefore too young to be 
covered.  Interesting idea though... 

	Re: .219

	Hmmm...You know what Chris Palmer told us.....Zurich
	know what Chris Palmer told us....but it ain't what
	it says on the legal notice aka the Insurance Cerificate,
	which IMHO is ambiguous.

	In a court of law how do you _prove_ what was said within
	internal company communications  ?

	Rathole deepens *8-)

	Oh sorry...I said I'd shut up *;-]

	Kevin.

	

    Kevin
    
    I disagree to a certain extent that the certificate is ambiguous as it
    states that Digital is the policy holder and that anyone can drive it
    with the policy holder's permission.
    
    As far as legal speak goes if a case went to court what they want to 
    know is did the driver of the car have the policy holder's permission.
    As we know if they are under 25 or a learner they don't.
    
    As keepers of the vehicle it is our responsibility to ensure that
    anyone who drives it adheres to the guidelines of the policy holder.
    
    Royston

	Royston,

	Yep...in principle I agree with all of your comments...

	But...

>>    As keepers of the vehicle it is our responsibility to ensure that
>>    anyone who drives it adheres to the guidelines of the policy holder.

	How could anyone (in a court of law) _prove_ what
	the guidelines are ? is internal E-Mail acceptable evidence?
	What other form of notification have you received ?  Anything
	that you have signed to say that you are fully aware of
	the recently changed guidelines ?

	I'd expect this to be a minefield if it ever did appear
	in a court.

	IMHO the insurance certificate could have been made totally
	unambiguous by stating the exceptions to the insurance cover.

	I also think that would have made the issue of said certificates
	to employees far more useful *;-]

	Cheers,
	Kevin.

	

    I can see where you are coming from but it's more striaght forward than
    that. 
    
    Remember it is Digital that is the policy holder and holds the
    policy from Zurich (or whoever the insurance is through) that would
    detail the driving restrictions.
    
    Say you had a personal car insured for any driver over 25 and you
    lend to a friend for a while. You would tell him about the restrictions
    so he would be aware of the situation. 
    
    Feel free to comment further.
    
    Royston
    

    Given that the insurance certificate says "anyone with permission..."
    and the previous situation was anyone. Then if one could prove that one
    had not seen the new notice I think Digital and the insurers would be
    on dodgy ground.
    eg if one had not logged in to one's mail account since the notice was
    issued.
    
    Andrew

Just a quick question ...it seems you can't go by what is printed on the 
new issued certificates.......So I'll ask here ....

Are we allowed to drive other cars under the new insurance ?

Can I jump behind the wheel and drive my cousins Rover 3500 SDI , that only 
names him as a driver? And have cover .

I understand it used to work on the basis that I would have Third Party Cover.

K.R.

    
    >>I understand it used to work on the basis that I would have Third Party Cover.
    
    
    I understood that it covered you for the company car you were leasing
    and that was it.
    
    Chris.

I think something has to be provided in writing (*not* email, bulletins
or whatever) for it to be legal, although I'm not certain of this.  The
last hardcopy of the guidelines which I received do not say anything about
under 25s, learners or anything else.

Chris.

re .217

>    I've just received the insurance pack from Lease Plan. It seems quite
>    clear that
>    
>    . The policy holder is Digital
>    
>    . Anyone can drive with the policy holder's permission - and permission
>      is only given to those with a full driving license over 25 which we 
>      were informed about seperately.
>    
>    . European breakdown cover at no extra cost.

	So the bit about spouse/cohabitee has been dropped?

Nigel

    My apologies for the over simplification in .217
    
    I was just trying to illustrate that it identifies Digital as the
    policy holder rather that the driver who only holds a certificate.
    
    Royston

re .198

I've just been re-reading this & it's _still_ a mess. 

>   Co-habitee may be regarded as "live in partner".  We have used 
>   this to cater for non-married couples and also persons living with 
>   people of the same gender.   

	For this to carry wieght in a legal sense it needs to be much more 
strictly defined. It doesn't apply to me as I have been married to the same 
person for many years but among the younger members of staff "live in partners" 
may change pretty frequently. If someone moves in for a week or 2 are they 
covered. As for same gender, what about people sharing a house with another 
person of the same gender? Are they covered? After the car accident all you 
have to say is that you are having a sexual relationship with your flatmate & 
they are OK. Hang on though we can't have sexual relationship as the pure 
definition as you could have a live in partner or even a spouse but for all 
sorts of reasons (illness to name but one) do not have a sexual relationship.

	Surely the simplest most sensible thing is to have the employee & one 
named driver over 25. Then there is no dispute about whether one is a cohabitee 
or not it would also satisy the odd situation mentione din another note that I 
saw somehwere of a mother & adult daughter who is now not covered.

Nigel

	Judging by all for these comments I still hold the
	belief that the Insurance Certificate is ambiguous
	to an unacceptable degree.

	From .228:

	>> I think something has to be provided in writing...


	Yep, as I've said I agree with this...my contention
	is that you would normally expect these details to
	be present on the Certificate of Motor Insurance.

	Anyways...I'm retreading old ground here !

	Kevin.

�	>> I think something has to be provided in writing...

	Well VTX is quite unambiguous (last updated 10-May-1995):

|     __________________________________         Driver's - Cover & Use
|
|    Drivers are restricted to any licensed driver with the Digital
|    custodian's permission.  Digital's insurance does not cover
|    "driving other cars" and non-Digital cars, with the exception of
|    recognised rentals and relief cars.
|
|    The Insurance Policy does not cover use by any non-Digital
|    employee in connection with their own occupation (other than to
|    and from one permanent place of employment).
|
|    Use is restricted to Social, Domestic and Pleasure and for Digital
|    company business.


        

|    Drivers are restricted to any licensed driver with the Digital
|    custodian's permission.

so my 17 year old sister *is* still allowed to drive my car then, as
long as I give my permission?

Chris.

	Re: .233

>>	Well VTX is quite unambiguous (last updated 10-May-1995)


	Hmmm....I think I said writing...not electronic notice
	boards that aren't "producable" to another interested
	party - read Police/Court etc.

	I rest my case *8-)

	Kev.

    VTX is clearly out of date as the new policy only recently came out.
    
    If you want to chance letting under 25 non-cohabitees drive your lease
    car that's up to you. I think the certificate is fine as proof of
    insurance but if it was taken further ie an accident then Zurich would
    not entertain a claim.
    
    VTX should be updated and I agree the certificate should be more
    specific but I think it is worded in such a way to allow changes to the
    policy.
    
    Royston 

	Re -.1,

	Hi Royston,

	I'm playing Devils Advocate...I have _no_ intention
	of risking points on my license for allowing uninsured
	use of my lease car.

	But...your observation about VTX being out of date is
	a prime example of the problems that can be introduced
	by lax wording on legal documents which force others to
	"decide" what is correct based on their individual
	assessment of what is right - cohabitee vs. spouse etc.

	If we are advised of changes to the insurance policy
	I would deem it a pre-requisite that are all informed
	in writing and that data repositories such as VTX
	are updated _prior_ to the changes taking effect.

	Kev_case_rested ! 

	

    Kevin
    
    I am in absolute total agreement with you. I have just had a chat
    with Ian Wegg and he pointed out a very interesting thing.
    
    If you remeber the restriction about under 25 non-cohabitees was
    imposed by Zurich. So why do Zurich issue us a certificate saying
    anyone can drive it with Digital's (the policy holder) permission.
    
    VTX is now out of date on the new insurance details and European
    breakdown cover not to mention a new FY96 PCL.
    
    Royston

I was also playing Devil's Advocate to a certain extent.  What worries me
is those people who may not have received or read the all-in-1 mail for
whatever reason (disappeared down a black hole, looked like junk so it
was overlooked, don't have an all-in-1 account) won't be any the wiser
about this, and may find themselves in trouble.  Unfortunately, as someone
previously pointed out, as far as the courts are concerned, `ignorance
is no defence'.

Chris.

    While this doesn't affect me directly (it a while since I had
    any friends that young and my kids are not old enough), I'm also 
    worried about the procedure used here.
    
    I went on holiday while the old policy was in force and it changed
    while I was away.  Suppose an under-25 had been driving the car and
    had an accident before I read the mail notifying me of the change.  Who
    would then be liable?
    
    How many people today still DO NOT KNOW that they may be uninsured?
                                -----------
    
    Yes,  that was shouting.
    
    Jc
    

    Does anyone have a spreadsheet for working out the cost of a car in the
    scheme vs opting out?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Iain

    Why aren't you out selling to BP? Its Q1 and we need the money!!!
    
    Paul
    
    ps - Had a good holiday?
    

From:	KERNEL::LARVAE::LARVAE::MRGATE::"RDGMTS::A1CHEFS::PALMER" "17-Jul-1995 1505" 17-JUL-1995 15:04:02.64
To:	@Distribution_List
CC:	
Subj:	Important revision to Car Fleet changes

From:	NAME: Chris Palmer @REO             
	FUNC: UK Insurance                    
	TEL: (7)830 4911                      <PALMER@A1CHEFS@RDGMTS>
To:     See Below

    
    Dear Colleague,
    
    I refer to my recent communication regarding Car Fleet/Insurance 
    information, and in particular the changes in driver use.
    
    The announced changes have resulted in some employees expressing 
    concern that alternative arrangements to cover under 25's are not 
    available.  In response to this, a full review will take place and 
    our Insurers have been asked to continue to provide cover for 
    young drivers.
    
    For the longer term, various alternatives are being explored and 
    will be reviewed by the Territory Management Team.  As soon as a 
    decision is reached, I shall contact you again.  
    
    In the meantime, I am pleased to confirm that drivers under 25 may 
    drive your lease car with your consent.
    
    
    Regards,
    Chris Palmer

To Distribution List:

Bravo!

    
    I went on holiday on 4th July touring around Scotland and had to drive
    the whole 1500 miles thanks to this daft rule change. I'm glad to see
    they've done a temporary u-turn but grrrr! why not sooner!!!
    
    Ian.

Can I borrow your car, now, Ian?

Matt$U25

    Matt,
    
    You forget the bit about tall, Swansea supporting, Welsh students.
    
    Ian.

hrumph.

Anybody know if the bit about having to hold a full licence still stands?

Chris.

    
    re: quote for 405
    
    Aren't they due for replacement soon anyway?
    
    Chris.

    Thanks to the folks that are putting quotes in 2288. 
    
    Could you please also include the model of the car in the title.
    This makes it easier when doing a directory of the note.
    
    I have changed the title of several recent replies to include the
    models listed.
    
    Royston (co-mod)

    I thought there were restrictions on the number of quotes you can request?
    
    Looks like several have had responses to many requests!
    I think I'll have a go!
    
    Tim

    I've just arranged a relief car whilst mine goes in for service next
    week and Hertz have advised me that the policy has changed and they
    will supply a Fiesta rather than a Mondeo and I will be invoiced for
    petrol if the tank is not refilled.
    
    The petrol request is fair enough but I don't understand why in
    mid-lease the standard of replacement car should change as I thought
    this cost would be built into the initial lease cost arrangement.
    
    It doesn't bother me too much but yet again we have here an erosion
    of benefit.
    
    Royston

    As a newcomer to DIGITAL, all this talk of erosion in benefits is
    surprising. I have worked in two of our major competitors and DIGITAL
    could show both how to treat employess with respect as well as how to
    reward people for work well done. i think that that there are too many
    pairs of rose tinted specs around at the moment.
    
    It is inevitable that a company will try to reduce costs on such an
    expensive overhead as a car scheme but it should also be borne in mind
    that the scheme is one of the best even as it stands now. I would
    rather see DIGITAL doing well and suffer the odd minor change than be
    out of a job because of DIGITAL spending more than is necessary.
    
    Satisfied of Basingstoke

re.253:

I usually arrange the service on a day I don't need the car, the garage picks it
up from the office car park and drops it back in time for me to go home.

If you need a car everyday then a Fiesta might not be a suitable replacement
(carrying equipment, travelling with customers, or long journeys) in which case
I'd kick up a stink.

Dave.

re.254:

In that case, you won't mind if we half your salary, will you?

Dave.

    I'm not sure if halving salaries constitutes minor suffering! There are
    however some companies in our industry whose employess have probably
    suffered nearly 50% cuts in salaries/benefits in real terms over the
    last 4 years. 
    
    Seriously, DIGITAL is a good company to work for on the whole and the
    car scheme still supports that.
    
    

RE: .257 and a couple back.

1. We did not join those other companies, we joined Digital.

2. Name the companies that have cut salaries and benfits by 50%.

- John.

    re: UBOHUB::STEWARDSON_C 
    
    As a newcomer, welcome to Digital and this notesfile. Perhaps you would
    care to sign in in note 3.
    
    It is good to see that you are pleased with the package that Digital
    offers you but please bear in mind that there are many folks here that
    have not had pay increases for 5 years and seen their benifits becoming
    less and less over the last few years as well. You will understand that
    your comments may not be very well received by everyone.
    
    Royston (co-moderator)

    Hmm
    We've (OLO'ers) officially been supplied with "group c"? cars for 
    years e.g fiesta, when Digital pays for it e.g accident damage, I 
    believed that the conditions changed years ago to also include
    Service times? Anyway out of countless hire cars over the years I've
    only ever actually had a metro once, and have usually ended up with
    Rover 416's or Cavaliers. It seems to be that the less notice you 
    give the hire company the more chance there is they'll send you 
    whatever they have in the lot.
    Can't see it as a major issue? Gradual erosion of benefits seems have 
    followed gradual erosion of profit? Thats yer market economy for ya
    
    
    Matt. 

    Re DIGITAL car policy Vs Others:
    
    As another newcomer to DIGITAL, I can confirm that the policy is pretty
    much in line with outside (will admit that the Vauxhall issue is a bit
    of a bind), however it's still loads cheaper that running your own car
    into the ground (and I can have a fast motor without worrying about
    insuring it!)
    
    On the whole I'm not unhappy, mind you I could do without waiting until
    October for a poxy Calibra!

    REF: Newcomers to Digital
    
    Please bear in mind that when you joined Digital you will have recieved
    an up to date package...
    
    
    When the new car scheme came in to effect I was about to take a years
    leave necessitating returning my lease car.  On return I would have
    been approx �900 CASH worse off if I had chosen to drive an equivalent
    car... that isn't just erosion of benefit its erosion of CASH...
    
    In the end the offer of voluntary redundancy resolved my problem.  I
    bought a newish sporty Metro with warrantly from an auction - I've done
    11,000 miles in it... 
    
    Cost?
    
    Car			5600
    Warranty	         360
    Insurance    	 236
    Balancing etc         30
    New wing mirror	  50
    Service		  80
    Less trade in      -5200
    
    Total for year	1156
    
    
    A LOT less than it would have cost to lease a 1.4S Corsa I'll bet!
    
    
    Xtine
         

    Xtine,
    
    	Most of the noters here didn't have the advantage of a voluntary
    redundancy + reemployment� inorder to obtain the necessary wod of cash
    to buy a car so have to make do with the lease.
    
    	Rik
    
    �Your not tends to imply that you accepted VR and to put the note in
    you must have been reemployed (or are a contractor)

    Three other companies who have cut pay/benefits by at least 50% over
    the last 4 years (mainly for o/c engineers):
    1) AT&T GIS
    2) Unisys
    3) ICL - who have just announced another pay freeze by the way.
    
    I think the depression sets in over a long period of time with one
    employer when an employee remebers better times. The concern is that it
    is all too easy to fall into the habit of talking oneself down. It is a
    good idea, in these circumstances, to look around and see what has
    happened to the likes of our competitors. If this brings no relief or
    at least a feeling of "things couldbe a lot worse" then it is probably
    time to cross to those greener pastures.
    
    As a newcomer, one of the positive aspects of DIGITAL seems to be the
    loyaly of its engineering employees. I would hope that such loyalty can
    be rewarded when the fortunes of the company improve.
    
    Since this is the CARS confrence, has anyone test driven the new Fiat
    Coupe Turbo yet?

    �Since this is the CARS confrence, has anyone test driven the new Fiat
    �Coupe Turbo yet?
    
    Try asking in #2182 -
    
    Topic  Author               Date         Repl  Title
    2182   LEMAN::CHEVAUX      29-NOV-1993    12  New FIAT Coup�
    
    Royston

    Yes (To the Fiat Coupe Turbo) but. I took one out for a spin last week.
    In short a nice car, well put together (for a Fiat, BMW/Honda won't
    loose any sleep though) nippy but *monster* turbo lag. I wouldn't like
    to drive on at (or close to) the limits for this reason alone.
    
    In contrast I took A V-TEC Prelude out last weekend, not as striking as
    the Fiat but what an engine - though I can see why people could dislike
    the looks (Both inside (Star Trek) and out). CAR mag prefered the Fiat
    over the Prelude (Over the 200SX &  something else - Calibra ?).
    
    I used to have a 2.3 Prelude and had no problems driving it
    'progressivly'.
    
    	Rik

RE: .264

>>> 3) ICL - who have just announced another pay freeze buy the way.

My brother-in-law, who works for ICL, gets paid more now than he did 
four years ago, and his benefits have not substantially altered in 
that time (so he tells me). I'm sure he would tell me if he had a pay 
cut of 50%, in fact I'm sure anyone within a radius of half a mile 
would hear him :-)

- John.

    One of the lucky ones I guess - there wi`ll always be
    exceptions but a large proportion of the engineering workforce took
    crippling drops in on-call and overtime as well as poorer pension
    contributions and a degraded car scheme which added up to around 50%
    less when inflation over 4 years is taken into account.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    re .263
    
    Rik,
    
    
    No, I am not a permie - and that 'wod' ran out after 6 months...
    
    I take the point about the redundancy payment, but even so, interest on
    a loan of �6000 over the year added to the figures would still make the
    lease look expensive.
    
    
    
    Xtine

A friend who I went to college with got a job with ICL around the same
time I was employed.  He now earns considerably more than me.  Perhaps
that's because he's Grant Mitchell incarnate.  :)

Chris.

    re .269
    
    As a matter of interest, what are you doing now?

    Can we take this personal banter off-line please
    
    Royston (co-mod)

    
    
    	Dear all,
    
    	Can anyone advise me with regard to the changes to VAT on cars
    	and the effect this should have on the cost of leasing a car
    	(ie a Vauxhall) off the preferred car list. The reason for posting
    	this note is that a colleague of mine in the office placed 2 quotes
    	for the same car and was returned with 2 different prices, �6,000
    	before the VAT changes, and �5,000 !!!! after the Vat changes. I
    	can't say as I've noticed a change in the cost of cars on the PCL
    	to any effect at all let alone a reduction of �1,000 
    
    	Yours feeling ripped off yet again,
    
    	Dean.
    
    
    

    Dean
    
    I think you miss the point of the PCL.
    
    Digital supplies us with a certain grade of car  (ie Cavalier 1.6)
    or compensates us with an allowance.
    
    If the cost of the lease goes up (or down) this is transparent to 
    us we just get the car as a benefit.
    
    Abviously we can choose a higher or lower spec car and the lease cost
    should reflect this.
    
    We are not being ripped of if the lease cost goes down and it costs
    digital less. The worrying thing is that if the leases are cheaper 
    because of the change in VAT then the allowance may be reduced to those
    who've opted out of the scheme.
    
    Royston

    Roy,  I think I missed the point of the PCL too.
    
    If Digital are being charged proportionately less for the same car, why
    isn't the saving being passed on to the person leasing the car ?   i.e.
    why should Digital make more money out of a newer lease which could be
    for the same car.  I'm not explaning this very well, but I'm expecting
    the lease costs to drop and am waiting for the results of the review of
    the car scheme that should have happened in July.
    
    tmp

    If the cost of the lease dropped then I would expect Digital to reduce
    the allowances. Where I think a saving might be seen by an employee who
    contributes for a "better" car.
    
    eg
    Standard car costs 3500 allowance is 3500
    lease cost drops to 3000 sllowance drops to 3000
    
    extra car costs 4000 contribution 500
    extra car drops to 3250 contribution now 250
    
    All numbers are fictitous.
    
    Andrew

    
    	Re:> Looks like you're on to a looser Royston
    
    
    	The point I was trying to make is that the reduction in cost due to
    	the changes in VAT should be passed on to the end user therefore
    	contributing to an "INCREASE" in benefits for a change.
    	
    	I've heard on the grapevine that the re-assessed prices for the PCL
    	are being discussed sometime in the very near future and have not
    	yet been posted due to the changes in VAT.
    
    	Dean.
    
    

Yeah, sorry not very descriptive, well misleading maybe!

Have LeasPlan not chased you about your 3 year old? They seem pretty hot 
on this from experiences colleagues here have had.

    �Looks like you're on to a looser Royston
    
    I'm not trying to win or lose. I'm just trying to share an opinion.
    
    I still don't see why we should benefit from this except
    proportionally as Andrew (Dodd) illustrated earlier.
    
    If the lease cost of the Cavalier 1.6 goes up, the allowance goes up to
    compensate. If Digital can save money by VAT change or any other reason
    on lease cost the allowance may go down.
    They are not obliged to pass that on to us as they are supplying us
    with a certain standard or vehicle, not a specific amount of money.
    
    Royston

Hi All,

Sorry if this is a basic question........

I would like to get some quotes for some two seater sports cars but dont know
how to go about it. The quotes are out of interest and a thought for the
future.......

Do you have to be changing your car soon to get a quote and are there ANY
restrictions to which cars you can get a quote for. For example, is it possible
to get a quote for a very high range car like a TVR Griffith ??

Regards

Barry

    There should be no reason why you can't get a quote for any new car
    available in the UK regardless of price. However, your manager will
    have the final say if he/she decides it is not practical.
    
    The old formular was that you had to be changing the car soon (up to
    6 weeks ?) and were allowed 2 quotes. This wasn't checked however as I
    know of folks who put through many quotes before ordering.
    
    Hertz/PHH cars have (used to have?) a 2 month window where they could
    be returned and your new car delivered which means if you don't like
    your current car you could time it with an order to replace it 2 months 
    early.
    
    Things may have changed with LeasePlan. Anyone know the current state
    of play ?
    
    Royston

    Can't say how to go about it...
    
    but surely getting quote like this 'just out of interest' is adding extra
    admin that Digital can do without paying for?
    
    
    
    Xtine

    Why not phone up Leaseplan and _ask_?
    
    They can probably give you a ballpark figure, and after all, it is
    their job to help out, 'cos they will take your money if you bite!
    
    mb

re .282

>    Can't say how to go about it...
>    
>    but surely getting quote like this 'just out of interest' is adding extra
>    admin that Digital can do without paying for?

	Aha, but now that Car Fleet has been privatised to LeasePlan it is
_not_ extra admin that Digital is paying for. Mind you I don't know what you
want a quote for, these Vauxhalls are jolly nice & much cheaper than the other
cars.

Nigel Barker

    someone said a while back that they were getting a quote for a MGF. Has
    anyone seen it? :Kevin

    
    re:2290.89
    
    Looks like the Nissan is the best quote out of that lot.  GT4 price is
    probably screwed by the insurance rating.
    
    Chris.

    � GT4 price is probably screwed by the insurance rating.
    
    ...and the fact that the list price is over �30k !
    
    Were these quotes just put in for a laugh or what ?
    
    Royston

    
    >>...and the fact that the list price is over �30k !
    
    I thought they were around 29,995 or some-such figure?!  I agree, they
    aren't cheap cars though...
    
    I'd have settled for a normal Celica over the Leasemobile Cavalier I
    have now, but it was something like six grand for the basic model on
    the scheme.  They may be "underpowered" by modern standards, but they
    don't half drive well.
    
    Chris.

    Ref recent quotes and other I've got from Lease plan recently for BMWs.
    
    Does anyone know if there is any light at the end of the tunnel - has
    Vauxhall still got the monopoly on good discounts for another year? I
    had heard Rover/BMW were trying to muscle in. Fact, fiction or wishful
    thinking??!!
    
    Rupert

    Rupert, I'd heard various things over the last 12 months or so about
    possible changes.
    
    First of all that we weren't ordering anywhere near the volume of
    Vauxhalls due to rightsizing and folks opting out of the scheme and 
    this bred the thought that the discount would be lost. Secondly that
    a deal with Rover would be a good idea as it would better cement the
    relationalship between Digital and Rover Group.
    
    I was at least expecting a revamp of the lease costs in the PCL at the
    begininning of FY96 and a change to the car allowance.
    
    Royston 
           

    
    Wishful thinking..... I asked about a change before I put my order in
    at the end of June and I was "assured" that we would be with Vauxhall
    for "at least" the next year and probably two.
    
    - MARK -
    

    ref .291
    
    Mark,
    
    Who did you ask?  Leaseplan, Purchasing or HR - they all seem to have a
    stake.
    
    Rupert

My current car is about to see its first M.O.T. ....end of lease at end
of October. Anyone got any ideas of when the Vectra prices will appear on the
P.C.L. ?  I would imagine they will be about the same as the Cavaliers.

The car allowance will now be based on the cost of a base model Vectra ...like
it was on the cost of a base model Cavalier....I assume ?

I will hang onto my current car until I can order a new Vectra. 
I have done about 63,000 miles ......I will hand the car back with 70,000 on the
clock...its a P.H.H. car. Having been told by someone in car fleet that I must
not go over 60,000 in any circumstances...and order a car now and hire one
for use until delivery. Last phone call to fleet I was told don't matter too
much going over 60,000 as all cars are pooled. And those going over 60,000
miles are balanced against those going back at end of lease with say 40,000
on the clock.


K.rR.

    Ken, what do you mean "last phone call to fleet" ? do you mean the
    latest information that you have.
    
    I remember Pam Dormer (who remembers her, then?) visiting a unit
    meeting and talking about the pooling of over and under mileages on all
    cars that were returned during the year, and that Digital had always
    got money *back* from this arrangement. She also said that it cost
    Digital a lot of money to terminate early.
    
    Who knows whether this is still true or not?
    
    I used to work for a company providing vehicle fleet leasing systems
    and I worked on the early termination part of it. basically, the cost
    of terminating the car early was calculated by adding up the
    outstanding monthly payments and then subtracting a little bit because
    you get the money now rather than spread over the remaining period of
    the lease. This being the case, it was very expensive to terminate
    early, and effectively was very little different from keeping the car
    for the remainder of the lease. I have no idea whether this is the case
    with the Digital leases.
    
    So, from the above calculation, you can see that it might actually be
    worth terminating early if the excess mileage charge per month exceeds
    the monthly payment on the *new* car.
    
    
    For example, say the excess mileage charge was 10p per mile (I have no
    idea what the real figure is, but it's probably more than that) and say
    you are doing 2000 miles per month. The monthly excess mileage charge
    would be....ummmm... �200. The monthly rentals of the new car must be
    below �200 to make it worth while terminating early.  
    
    Again for example, say the old monthly rental was �150, the new �170
    and using the mileage figures from above, if you have 5 months left on
    the lease :-
    
    
    Termination charge : �750 (ish)
    New lease cost for 5 months �850
    Total = �1600
    
    or
    
    Old lease cost for 5 months �750
    excess mileage charge �1000
    Total = �1750
    
    So it's advantageous to terminate early, in that case, but only because
    the monthly rentals for the new car for the 'overlap' do not exceed the
    excess milage charge.
    
    
    
    
    About the Vectra prices. I have a Mondeo at the moment, and the
    'natural' replacement would be a Vectra. I say 'natural' because I'm
    sure that a like-for-like replacement will not be on because a) the
    inflated non-Vauxhall price and b) I'm still on the old allowance for
    level 9. 
    
    I have grown very cynical about the car scheme, and I suspect that what
    will happen is that the Vectra prices will appear, and they will be
    higher than the current Cavalier prices, but the allowances will not go
    up. I hope to be proved wrong, but just remember that the level 8/9
    allowance is based on an 8v Cavalier SRI. You try and order one.
    
    
    
    Graham Smith

;-1

What I mean by last call to fleet .....

Is ..I pick up telephone ...tap in magic numbers......
And some answers....

Me    "Can you tell me when the prices for Vectras will be available"

Fleet "In a couple of weeks"

Me    " O.K. I will call back then...P.S. my cars now done 63,000 miles so I
Need to order  a new one soon...are we charged for excess miles over 60,000?"

Fleet "Who is the car via ...."

Me "P.H.H."

Fleet "Thats O.K. ...we pool all the cars together and those under 60,000 miles
help cancel those over"


Does the above help ?

K.R.

Kevin Raven

    Leaseplan have just told me that Hertz have told them that I have done
    48k miles and, I quote:
    
    "As Digital are charged excess mileage if the vehicle goes over 60,000
    miles please confirm with Lease Plan that the mileage is correct so
    that we can arrange to shorten the lease and allow you to order another
    car."
    
    Colin.

    It would seem from the conversations that there is a difference between
    the contract with Hertz and the one with PHH.
    
    
    
    Xtine

    Eh ?  Both PHH and Hertz charge for cars over the 60,000 but it appears
    that they try and catch the ones that are going to go way over.
    
    tmp

    Sorry,
    
    I read between the lines that PHH aren't charging as much for
    over-milegage cars and are willing to offset the ones that go back
    under mileage, so Leaseplan is less picky about them being returned 
    whereas Hertz are sticky about mileage, and charge enough to make 
    Leaseplan insist they go back "on time"
    
    
    Sometimes I can't control that assumptive leap ;-)!
    
    
    Xtine
    
    

    >>heard Rover/BMW were trying to muscle in.
    
    Sorry to disappoint you but I read that Rover sales are down 11% since
    last year due to them "withdrawing from the unprofitable fleet business"
    
    :Kevin

    Interesting mail from Pat Axford re benchmark cars for FY96 (should we
    start a new topic ?).
    
    It lists the following
    
    level 1-7   Cavalier  1.6 GLS         Supp 2950
          8-9   Cavalier  2.0 GLS              3560
         10-11  Omega 2.0 GL                   4460
         12+    Omega 2.0 CD                   4940
    
    Good news that the new list will hold and even reduce existing prices.
    
    The funny thing is that there is no such model as a Cavalier '1.6' GLS
    or Omega 2.0 'GL'. It will be fun to try and order these models.
    
    I would have thought that the new Vectra models should have been taken
    into consideration as the benchmark models for FY96.
    
    Royston 

    Wasn't the level 8-9 model a 2.0 SRi? A GLS isn't quite the same....
    
    
    Xtine

     �Wasn't the level 8-9 model a 2.0 SRi?
    
    It was for an 8v SRi. This model was dropped a while back. The 16v SRi is a
    bit more expensive so I guess they wouldn't stretch that far. 
    
    Royston

    re .302
    
    
�    It lists the following
�    
�    level 1-7   Cavalier  1.6 GLS         Supp 2950
�          8-9   Cavalier  2.0 GLS              3560
�         10-11  Omega 2.0 GL                   4460
�         12+    Omega 2.0 CD                   4940
�    
�    Good news that the new list will hold and even reduce existing prices.
    
    I think I'll reserve judgement until we find out what the real prices
    are and how much less we'll be overcompensated. All that the mail says
    is "We're not increasing the supplements". Bad news if you don't want
    to lease the crap Vauxhall call cars.
    
    Richard.

�    
�    level 1-7   Cavalier  1.6 GLS         Supp 2950
�          8-9   Cavalier  2.0 GLS              3560
�         10-11  Omega 2.0 GL                   4460
�         12+    Omega 2.0 CD                   4940
�    
�    Good news that the new list will hold and even reduce existing prices.
    
Whats the point on of the above. When the Cavalier is no longer in production
any more?

The prices should be based on the Vectra 

K.R.

      >>The prices should be based on the Vectra
    
    I have mailed Pat Axford (he or a she?) pointing out the errors in the
    model names and asked about Vectra pricing. 
    
    The only reason I can think of as to why the Vectra models were not
    listed is that the review took place back in July.
    
    Are details about Vectra models available yet ? 
    
    Royston

    I think we are missing the point here.   The current driver price of an
    Omega  is.
    
    		GLS	4210
    		CD	4511
    
    The benchmark price is 
    
    		GL(S?)	4460 L10/11 Supp
    		CD	4960 L12   Supp
    
    it seems to me that this is an (un) subtle way of telling us that
    driver prices will soon be going up butallowances will remain as is.
    
    
    Guy	
    
     

    Guy, 
    
    Maybe I'm missing your point but shouldn't you be glad that, according
    to your figures, an opportunity to lower the supplemets has been passed
    over by management. For example the L10/11 could have been dropped to
    4210 (your GLS price) and the L12 to 4511 (your CD price).
    
    It looks like a good deal to me!
    
    Peter
    
     

    Re 309
    
    Surely raising the price has the same effect as dropping the allowance
    either way it will cost the driver more to drive the same car.
    
    Guy
    
    I don't think I'm missing anything here?????
      

    Guy
    
    The mail was very ambiguous. It says they review the benchmark cars and
    set the allowance accordingly. We are lucky I suppose that they don't
    decide on a 1.2 Corsa Merit.
    
    All the mail is saying to me is that the allowances are not changing
    and will allow employees to get the benchmark cars with their
    supplement possibly with some change for 'fuel for personal, social and
    domestic use' as suggested in the Car Supplement section in vtx. You
    should read this if you want a laugh.
    
    Royston

    re: -1
    When is the new PCL due out?
    
    
    Rgds,  Sheleen.

    �When is the new PCL due out?
    
    A good question. Did you get Pat Axford's mail ? 
    All it said -
    
    'The full list of Vauxhall driver prices for FY96 will be
     available on VTX shortly under the Car Fleet option'
    
    Royston

        As the new PCL is due in VTX soon, I thought it might be wise
        to keep a copy of the FY95 one for comparison.  I'll put it
        in the next reply (it's 172 lines).
        
        Ian.

  CORSA 3-DOOR MODELS
  1000             MERIT 1.2I 3-DR H/B                        2075
  1002             MERIT 1.2I (E-DRIVE) 3-DR H/B              2118
  1004             MERIT 1.5D 3-DR H/B                        2068
  1006             LS 1.2I 3-DR H/B                           2206
  1008             LS 1.4I (HI-TORQ) 3-DR H/B                 2265
  1009               "  "      "     AUTO 3-DR H/B            2437
  1010             LS 1.5TD 3-DR H/B                          2273
  1014             SRI 1.4I 16V (82 PS) 3-DR H/B              2511
  1016             GSI 1.6I 16V 3-DR H/B                      3088

  CORSA  5-DOOR MODELS
  1018             MERIT 1.2I 5-DR H/B 4SPD                   2141
  1020             MERIT 1.5D 5-DR H/B                        2133
  1022             LS 1.2I 5-DR H/B                           2271
  1023             LS 1.4I (HI-TORQ) AUTO 5-DR H/B            2500
  1024             LS 1.4I (HI-TORQ) 5-DR H/B                 2330
  1025             LS 1.5TD 5-DR H/B                          2438
  1026             GLS 1.5TD 5-DR H/B                         2438
  1028             GLS 1.2I 5-DR H/B                          2345
  1030             GLS 1.4I (82 PS) 16V 5-DR H/B              2469
  1032             GLS 1.4I 16V AUTO 5-DR H/B                 2704
  1032A            CDX 1.4I 16V 5DR H/B                       3150
  1033A            CDX 1.4I 16V AUTO 5DR H/B                  3346

  TIGRA                
  1040             1.4i 16V 3DR COUPE                         3629
  1042             1.6I 16V 3DR COUPE                         4186

  ASTRA SALOONS            
  1054             LS 1.4I (82 PS) 4DR SAL                    2496
  1056             LS 1.7D 4DR SAL                            2534
  1062             GLS 1.6I MANUAL 4DR SAL                    2787
  1064             GLS 1.7TD 4DR SAL                          2818

  ASTRA 3-DOOR HATCHBACKS
  1078             MERIT 1.4I (HI-TORQ) 3DR H/B               2273
  1079             MERIT 1.4I (82 PS) AUTO 3DR H/B            2406
  1080             MERIT 1.6I (E-DRIVE) 3DR H/B               2373
  1082             MERIT 1.7D 3DR H/B                         2370
  1084             LS 1.4I (HI-TORQ) 3DR H/B                  2381
  1095             SPORT 1.8I 16V 3DR H/B                     3399
  1096             CONVERTIBLE 1.6 2DR
  1097             CONVERTIBLE 1.8 2DR

  ASTRA 5-DOOR HATCHBACKS
  1100             MERIT 1.4I (HI-TORQ) 5DR H/B               2325
  1101             MERIT 1.4I (82 PS) AUTO 5DR H/B            2459
  1102             MERIT 1.6I (E-DRIVE) 5DR H/B               2428
  1104             MERIT 1.7D 5DR H/B                         2424
  1106             LS 1.4I (HI-TORQ) 5DR H/B                  2431
  1108             LS 1.4I (82 PS) 5DR H/B                    2496
  1109             LS 1.6I (E-DRIVE) 5DR H/B                  2502
  1110             LS 1.7D 5DR H/B                            2534
  1112             LS 1.7TD 5DR H/B                           2673
  1114             GLS 1.4I (82 PS) 5DR H/B                   2569
  1116             GLS 1.6I 5DR H/B                           2787
  1118             GLS 1.7TD 5DR H/B                          2818
  1120A            SPORT 1.6I 16V 5DR H/B                     3043
  1122A            SPORT 1.7TD 5DR H/B                        3017
  1124A            SPORT 1.8I 16V 5DR H/B                     3459 
  1125A            CDX 1.6 16V 5DR H/B                        3604
  1126A            CDX 1.6 16V AUTO 5DR H/B                   3940
  1127A            CDX 1.7 TURBO DIESEL 5DR H/B               3433
  1128A            CDX 2.0 16V 5DR H/B                        3952
  1129A            CDX 2.0 16V AUTO 5DR H/B                   4189

  ASTRA ESTATES            
  1138             MERIT 1.4I (HI TORQ) 5DR EST               2424
  1140             MERIT 1.4I (82 PS) 5DR EST                 2467
  1142             MERIT 1.7D 5DR EST                         2522
  1144             LS 1.4I (82 PS) 5DR EST                    2594
  1146             LS 1.7D 5DR EST                            2636
  1148             LS 1.7TD 5DR EST                           2772
  1152             GLS 1.6I 5DR EST                           2880
  1154             GLS 1.7TD 5DR EST                          2917
  1155             SPORT 1.8I 16V 5DR EST                     3372
  1155A            CDX 1.6 16V 5DR EST                        3663
  1156A            CDX 1.6 16V AUTO 5DR EST                   3849
  1157A            CDX 2.0 16V 5DR EST                        3895
  1158A            CDX 2.0 16V AUTO 5DR EST                   4197

  CAVALIER SALOONS
  1160         ENVOY 1.6I 4DR SAL                          2702
  1162         ENVOY1.7D 4DR SAL                           2677
  1164         ENVOY 1.7TD 4DR SAL                         2757
  1166         LS 1.6I 4DR SAL                             2843
  1170         LS 1.7TD 4DR SAL                            2934
  1172         LS 1.8I 4DR SAL                             2845
  1174         LS 2.0I 16V 4DR SAL                         3046
  1178         GLS 1.7TD 4DR SAL                           3061
  1180         GLS 1.8I 4DR SAL                            3009
  1182         GLS 2.0I 16V 4DR SAL                        3213
  1184         GLS V6 2.5I 24V 4DR SAL                     4155
  1186         CDX 1.7 TD 4 DR SAL                         3491
  1188         CDX 2.0 I 16V 4DR SAL                       3909
  1190         CDX 2.5I V6 24V 4DR SAL        VELOUR       4706
  1192          "    "   "  "   "   "         LEATHER      4759
  1194         SRI 2.0I 16V 4DR SAL                        3713

  CAVALIER HATCHBACKS
  1200         ENVOY 1.6I 5DR H/B                          2724
  1202         ENVOY1.7D 5DR H/B                           2699
  1204         ENVOY 1.7TD 5DR H/B                         2778
  1206         LS 1.6I 5DR H/B                             2863
  1210         LS 1.7TD 5DR H/B                            2915
  1212         LS 1.8I 5DR H/B                             2865
  1214         LS 2.0I 16V 5DR H/B                         3067
  1218         GLS 1.7TD 5DR H/B                           3081
  1220         GLS 1.8I 5DR H/B                            3029
  1222         GLS 2.0I 16V 5DR H/B                        3233
  1224         V6 2.5I 24V 5DR H/B                         4175
  1226         CDX 1.7 TD 5DR H/B                          3513
  1228         CDX 2.0 I 16V 5DR H/B                       3932
  1230         CDX 2.5I V6 5DR H/B                VELOUR   4683
  1232          "   "    "  "   "                 LEATHER  4782
  1234         SRI 2.0I 16V 5DR H/B                        3735

  OMEGA SALOONS
  1302             SELECT 2.0I 16V  4DR SAL                  4060
  1304             SELECT 2.5 TD  4DR SAL                    4457
  1306             GLS 2.0I 16V  4DR SAL                     4210
  1308             GLS 2.5I V6 24V  4DR SAL                  4600
  1310             GLS 2.5 TD  4DR SAL                       4609
  1312             CD 2.0I 16V  4DR SAL                      4511
  1314             CD 2.5I V6 24V  4DR SAL                   4754
  1316             CD 2.5 TD  4DR SAL                        4913
  1318             CDX 2.5I V6 24V  4DR SAL                  5306
  1320             CDX 2.5 TD  4DR SAL                       5487
  1322             ELITE 2.5 TD  4DR SAL                     5915
  1324             ELITE 3.0 V6  4DR SAL                     5939

  OMEGA ESTATES
  1332             SELECT 2.0I 16V  5DR EST                   3979
  1334             SELECT 2.5 TD  5DR EST                     4314
  1336             GLS 2.0I 16V  5DR EST                      4116
  1338             GLS 2.5I V6 24V  5DR EST                   4351
  1340             GLS 2.5 TD  5DR EST                        4455
  1342             CD 2.0I 16V  5DR EST                       4398
  1344             CD 2.5I V6 24V  5DR EST                    4617
  1346             CD 2.5 TD  5DR EST                         4732
  1348             CDX 2.5I V6 24V  5DR EST                   5133
  1350             CDX 2.5 TD  5DR EST                        5265
  1352             ELITE 3.0 V6 24V 5DR EST                   5629
  1354             ELITE 2.5 TD  5DR EST                      5550

  CALIBRA               
  1400             8V 2.0I 3DR COUPE                          3708
  1402             16V 2.0I 3DR COUPE               CLOTH     4033            
  1404              "    "   "    "                 LEATHER   4112
  1406             2.5I V6 3DR                      CLOTH     4745
  1408               "  "   "                       LEATHER   4823
  1410             TURBO 16V 4 X 4 2.0I 3DR COUPE   CLOTH     5138
  1412               "    "    "    "    "    "     LEATHER   5219

  FRONTERA              
  1500             2.0I SPORT 3DR                             3587
  1502             2.0I SPORT SOFT-TOP                        3643
  1504             2.4I ESTATE 5DR                            4087
  1506             2.3TD ESTATE 5DR                           4235
  1506A            2.0I S SPORT 3DR                           3658
  1507A            2.2I 16V 5DR                               4276
  1508A            2.8TD 3DR                                  3987
  1509A            2.8TD S 3DR                                4128

  MONTEREY              
  1600             RS 3.2I V6 3DR                              6040
  1602             RS 3.2I V6 AUTO 3DR                         6285
  1604             RS 3.1 TD 3DR                               5726
  1606             LTD 3.2I V6 5DR                             6370
  1608             LTD 3.2I V6 AUTO 5DR                        6618
  1610             LTD 3.1 TD 5DR                              6035

    
    Thanks Ian for posting the FY95 prices. It will be interesting to 
    compare with the new prices.
    
    Royston

    NEWSFLASH
    
    I've just received a courteous reply from Pat Axford after I mailed
    her about the errors in the benchmark car model letters.
    
    She confirms that the Cavalier 1.6 GLS should be LS and the Omega 2.0
    GL should be the GLS.
    
    Vectra prices should appear in vtx by next week.
    
    She also says that prices for all existing Vauxhall models and the car
    supplement remain fixed for the remainder of the year until 30 June
    1996.
    
    So I guess this means no revised prices at all in the PCL.
    
    Royston

           Level      Vauxhall model               Supplement
    
             1-7        Cavalier 1.6 GLS             �2,950.00
             8-9        Cavalier 2.0 GLS             �3,560.00
             10-11      Omega 2.0 GL                 �4,460.00
             12 +       Omega 2.0 CD                 �4,940.00
    
    
    However the prices currently on VTX are
    
            LS 1.6I 4DR SAL                             2843
            GLS 2.0I 16V 4DR SAL                        3213
            SRI 2.0I 16V 4DR SAL                        3713
    
    The level 1-7 car has gone up by �107
    The level 8-9 car has gone up by �347
    Surely the level 8-9 car should be based on a SRI 2.0I 16V 4DR SAL
    
    :Kevin
    

    
    Re .320 :Kevin
    
    I think the mail was somewhat confusing. The mail states the level
    allowances (not the car price) and provides as a reference the standard 
    car for that level. I suspect this was done to show how overcompensated
    we all are i.e. we allow you 'x' but it only costs 'y'.
    
    An earlier message suggests that all cars apart from the Vectras
    will be the same prices as last year - generous you may think....
    except that the lease companies are getting the cars 17.5% cheaper
    since August 95 as they can now claim back the VAT on all the new
    cars they lease.
    
    Richard.
    
    
    

    Re .319 �Vectra prices should appear in vtx by next week.
    
    Looks like the Vectra prices won't be listed just yet. This is the
    latest from vtx -
    
  ****************************** NEWSFLASH **********************************
  The Cavalier replacement Vectra will be launched in the UK on the
  19th October 1995.

  Vauxhall have provided details of the specifications and colours that will
  be available, but no prices have yet been published.  The Preferred Car
  List will be updated as soon as Lease Plan have received the prices from
  Vauxhall.

  If you are considering ordering a Cavalier, there are still many models and
  colours available - contact Lease Plan on 7 830 8066.

    VECTRA prices released today. Leaseplan will mail you if you ask, or
    should be on VTX in a couple of days.
    
    Delivery 8-10 weeks, but orders placed BEFORE launch date on 19th
    October will have shorter lead time.

    Feel free to post any Vectra prices if you get them before they appear
    on vtx.
    
    Thanks
    
    Royston

	The VECTRA price are now on VTX. Not sure that the price increases
	are in line with the 1.6% retail price increase by Vauxhall...!

    
    From VTX...
    
    
    4 Door Models
    
      PCL Numbers           Model                   Price
    
      18000                 1.6 16v LS              3,004
      18001                 1.6 16v GLS             3,198
      18002                 1.7 TDS LS              3,084
      18003                 1.7 TDS GLS             3,279
      18004                 1.7 TDS CDX             3,810
      18005                 1.8 16v LS              3,029
      18006                 1.8 16v GLS             3,224
      18007                 2.0 16v GLS             3,548
      18008                 2.0 16v SRi             3,967
      18009                 2.0 16v CDX             4,238
      18010                 2.5 V6 GLS              4,501
      18011                 2.5 V6 CDX              5,342
                            
      5 Door Models
    
      18012                 1.6 8v Envoy            2,827
      18013                 1.6 16v LS              3,004
      18014                 1.6 16v GLS             3,198
      18015                 1.7 TDS Envoy           2,970
      18016                 1.7 TDS LS              3,084
      18017                 1.7 TDS GLS             3,279
      18018                 1.7 TDS CDX             3,910
      18019                 1.8 16v LS              3,029
      18020                 1.8 16v GLS             3,223
      18021                 2.0 16v GLS             3,548
      18022                 2.0 16v SRi             4,167
      18023                 2.0 16v CDX             4,438
      18024                 2.5 V6 GLS              4,501
      18025                 2.5 V6 CDX              5,442
    
    
      Option Availability & Prices
    
      Option                        Envoy   LS      GLS     CDX     SRi    Price
    
      Passenger Airbag                                                     80
      Security Alarm                                                       40
      Air Conditioning                                                     151
      Air Conditioning With
      Sunroof Deleted                                                      66
      Cruise Control                                                       67
      500 Radio/cd                                                         40
      Leather trim                                                         254
      Velour Trim (CDX V6 only)                                            n/c
      Winter Pack                                                          46
      Auto Transmission                                                    151
      Sunroof Deleted                                                      00

    Hmm, the base car allowance should cover the LS model as this is the
    Cavalier replacement.
    
    Erosion of benefit time !
    
    Royston

    
    Yep, they're swindling us out of a tenner now.
    
    Most of the prices have gone up quite a bit, 2/3/4/500 quid for some of
    'em - the V6's seem to be up the most.
    
    
    Chris.

    The new Omega prices tell us once again that our benefits will continue
    to be eroded untill they are worth sweet FA.
      Guy 

    
    Yes. So much for "prices will be held", "some will be cheaper".
    
    Most prices seem to have gone up by around 10%.
    
    Richard.

    Well folks I seem to have got it wrong.
    
    Pat Axford mailed me the other day to say that there would be no
    changes to the PCL apart from the inclusion of the Vectra range.
    
    I either misunderstood her or she is not completely aware of what is
    going on.
    
    Royston

Apparently the prices last seen were based on July 1994 models hence the
increase across the board...

    Its curious that even thr Cavalier prices have been increased.
    The LS 1.6 is 3,153
    
    This is a just a couple of weeks are being informed that the allowance
    for this benchmark car is 2,950 !
    
    Royston

Well I put my new car request into Lease plan just before the prices 
changed. I'm sure they'll honour the old price list. Wont they?

Rupert - waiting to get shafted by HR/Fleet

    Rupert,
    
    I just checked on my order with LeAseplan, and they are holding the
    pre-increase price, as the order was in before the date of the
    increase...whenever that was!
    
    Tim

Fingers crossed!

    Hey, your not kidding about the LEASEPLAN prices increasing... What
    sort of garbage is that about Cavalier prices increasing - GM dealers
    can't seem to give them away at present.
    
    I was looking forward to see what price deductions would be passed onto
    the car user given that LEASEPLAN now claim 100% tax relief on their
    new vehicles. Does anyone of you out there know of any vehicles that have 
    decreased / held their price. ( in line with the car allowance price 
    freeze ... )
    
    Seems like there is now a vacancy for a budding 'Wyatt Tyler' to take
    up the case of the 'ESSENTIAL' car users. Any prices from other leasing
    companies to compare with LEASEPLAN'S deal ?

    Well, I've spotted two that have not increased.
    
    
    The Cavalier 1.6LS and Cavalier 2.0GLS.

    re .338
    
    Sorry, your statement is wrong. Both the models you specified have gone 
    up in price.
    
    Below is a listing of the old and new prices. 
    
    Richard.
    
    
    
  CORSA 3-DOOR MODELS
  1000             MERIT 1.2I 3-DR H/B                        2075  2078
  1002             MERIT 1.2I (E-DRIVE) 3-DR H/B              2118
  1004             MERIT 1.5D 3-DR H/B                        2068  2210
  1006             LS 1.2I 3-DR H/B                           2206  2219
  1008             LS 1.4I (HI-TORQ) 3-DR H/B                 2265  2276
  1009               "  "      "     AUTO 3-DR H/B            2437  2553
  1010             LS 1.5TD 3-DR H/B                          2273  2425
  1014             SRI 1.4I 16V (82 PS) 3-DR H/B              2511  2529
  1016             GSI 1.6I 16V 3-DR H/B                      3088

  CORSA  5-DOOR MODELS
  1018             MERIT 1.2I 5-DR H/B 4SPD                   2141  2184
  1020             MERIT 1.5D 5-DR H/B                        2133  2270
  1022             LS 1.2I 5-DR H/B                           2271  2332
  1023             LS 1.4I (HI-TORQ) AUTO 5-DR H/B            2500  2619
  1024             LS 1.4I (HI-TORQ) 5-DR H/B                 2330  2490
  1025             LS 1.5TD 5-DR H/B                          2438  2482
  1026             GLS 1.5TD 5-DR H/B                         2438  2609
  1028             GLS 1.2I 5-DR H/B                          2345  2422
  1030             GLS 1.4I (82 PS) 16V 5-DR H/B              2469  2697
  1032             GLS 1.4I 16V AUTO 5-DR H/B                 2704  2925
  1032A            CDX 1.4I 16V 5DR H/B                       3150  3050
  1033A            CDX 1.4I 16V AUTO 5DR H/B                  3346  3220

  TIGRA                
  1040             1.4i 16V 3DR COUPE                         3629  3622
  1042             1.6I 16V 3DR COUPE                         4186  4243

  ASTRA SALOONS            
  1054             LS 1.4I (82 PS) 4DR SAL                    2496  2971
  1056             LS 1.7D 4DR SAL                            2534  2817  
  1062             GLS 1.6I MANUAL 4DR SAL                    2787  3145
  1064             GLS 1.7TD 4DR SAL                          2818  3067 

  ASTRA 3-DOOR HATCHBACKS
  1078             MERIT 1.4I (HI-TORQ) 3DR H/B               2273  2580
  1079             MERIT 1.4I (82 PS) AUTO 3DR H/B            2406  2749
  1080             MERIT 1.6I (E-DRIVE) 3DR H/B               2373  2628
  1082             MERIT 1.7D 3DR H/B                         2370  2591
  1084             LS 1.4I (HI-TORQ) 3DR H/B                  2381  2710
  1095             SPORT 1.8I 16V 3DR H/B                     3399  3633
  1096             CONVERTIBLE 1.6 2DR
  1097             CONVERTIBLE 1.8 2DR

  ASTRA 5-DOOR HATCHBACKS
  1100             MERIT 1.4I (HI-TORQ) 5DR H/B               2325  2643
  1101             MERIT 1.4I (82 PS) AUTO 5DR H/B            2459  2811
  1102             MERIT 1.6I (E-DRIVE) 5DR H/B               2428  2690
  1104             MERIT 1.7D 5DR H/B                         2424  2650
  1106             LS 1.4I (HI-TORQ) 5DR H/B                  2431  2769
  1108             LS 1.4I (82 PS) 5DR H/B                    2496  2871
  1109             LS 1.6I (E-DRIVE) 5DR H/B                  2502  2958
  1110             LS 1.7D 5DR H/B                            2534  
  1112             LS 1.7TD 5DR H/B                           2673  2986
  1114             GLS 1.4I (82 PS) 5DR H/B                   2569  2953
  1116             GLS 1.6I 5DR H/B                           2787  3259
  1118             GLS 1.7TD 5DR H/B                          2818  3167
  1120A            SPORT 1.6I 16V 5DR H/B                     3043  3164
  1122A            SPORT 1.7TD 5DR H/B                        3017  3079
  1124A            SPORT 1.8I 16V 5DR H/B                     3459  3699
  1125A            CDX 1.6 16V 5DR H/B                        3604  3557
  1126A            CDX 1.6 16V AUTO 5DR H/B                   3940  
  1127A            CDX 1.7 TURBO DIESEL 5DR H/B               3433  3286
  1128A            CDX 2.0 16V 5DR H/B                        3952  3842
  1129A            CDX 2.0 16V AUTO 5DR H/B                   4189

  ASTRA ESTATES            
  1138             MERIT 1.4I (HI TORQ) 5DR EST               2424  2716
  1140             MERIT 1.4I (82 PS) 5DR EST                 2467  2761
  1142             MERIT 1.7D 5DR EST                         2522  2671
  1144             LS 1.4I (82 PS) 5DR EST                    2594  2939
  1146             LS 1.7D 5DR EST                            2636  2832
  1148             LS 1.7TD 5DR EST                           2772  2995
  1152             GLS 1.6I 5DR EST                           2880  3209
  1154             GLS 1.7TD 5DR EST                          2917  3170
  1155             SPORT 1.8I 16V 5DR EST                     3372  3405
  1155A            CDX 1.6 16V 5DR EST                        3663  3483
  1156A            CDX 1.6 16V AUTO 5DR EST                   3849
  1157A            CDX 2.0 16V 5DR EST                        3895  3795 
  1158A            CDX 2.0 16V AUTO 5DR EST                   4197  

  CAVALIER SALOONS
  1160         ENVOY 1.6I 4DR SAL                             2702  2985
  1162         ENVOY1.7D 4DR SAL                              2677  2856
  1164         ENVOY 1.7TD 4DR SAL                            2757  2948
  1166         LS 1.6I 4DR SAL                                2843  2950
  1170         LS 1.7TD 4DR SAL                               2934  3106
  1172         LS 1.8I 4DR SAL                                2845  3159
  1174         LS 2.0I 16V 4DR SAL                            3046  3519
  1178         GLS 1.7TD 4DR SAL                              3061  3294
  1180         GLS 1.8I 4DR SAL                               3009  3356
  1182         GLS 2.0I 16V 4DR SAL                           3213  3560
  1184         GLS V6 2.5I 24V 4DR SAL                        4155  4497
  1186         CDX 1.7 TD 4 DR SAL                            3491  3770
  1188         CDX 2.0 I 16V 4DR SAL                          3909  4238
  1190         CDX 2.5I V6 24V 4DR SAL        VELOUR          4706  5068
  1192          "    "   "  "   "   "         LEATHER         4759  5126
  1194         SRI 2.0I 16V 4DR SAL                           3713  4078

  CAVALIER HATCHBACKS
  1200         ENVOY 1.6I 5DR H/B                             2724  2935
  1202         ENVOY1.7D 5DR H/B                              2699  2830
  1204         ENVOY 1.7TD 5DR H/B                            2778  2926
  1206         LS 1.6I 5DR H/B                                2863  2950
  1210         LS 1.7TD 5DR H/B                               2915  3084
  1212         LS 1.8I 5DR H/B                                2865  3189
  1214         LS 2.0I 16V 5DR H/B                            3067  3494
  1218         GLS 1.7TD 5DR H/B                              3081  3269
  1220         GLS 1.8I 5DR H/B                               3029  3396
  1222         GLS 2.0I 16V 5DR H/B                           3233  3560
  1224         V6 2.5I 24V 5DR H/B                            4175  4471
  1226         CDX 1.7 TD 5DR H/B                             3513  3662
  1228         CDX 2.0 I 16V 5DR H/B                          3932  4425
  1230         CDX 2.5I V6 5DR H/B                VELOUR      4683  5283
  1232          "   "    "  "   "                 LEATHER     4782  5344  
  1234         SRI 2.0I 16V 5DR H/B                           3735  4053


  CAVALIER SALOONS  v  VECTRA SALOON prices
  1160         ENVOY 1.6I 4DR SAL                             2702  2985
  1162         ENVOY1.7D 4DR SAL                              2677  2856
  1164         ENVOY 1.7TD 4DR SAL                            2757  2948
  1166         LS 1.6I 4DR SAL                                2843  3004
  1170         LS 1.7TD 4DR SAL                               2934  3084
  1172         LS 1.8I 4DR SAL                                2845  3029
  1174         LS 2.0I 16V 4DR SAL                            3046      
  1178         GLS 1.7TD 4DR SAL                              3061  3279
  1180         GLS 1.8I 4DR SAL                               3009  3224
  1182         GLS 2.0I 16V 4DR SAL                           3213  3548
  1184         GLS V6 2.5I 24V 4DR SAL                        4155  4501
  1186         CDX 1.7 TD 4 DR SAL                            3491  3810
  1188         CDX 2.0 I 16V 4DR SAL                          3909  4238
  1190         CDX 2.5I V6 24V 4DR SAL        VELOUR          4706  5342
  1192          "    "   "  "   "   "         LEATHER         4759  
  1194         SRI 2.0I 16V 4DR SAL                           3713  3967

  CAVALIER HATCHBACKS  v  VECTRA HATCHBACK prices
  1200         ENVOY 1.6I 5DR H/B                             2724  2827
  1202         ENVOY1.7D 5DR H/B                              2699      
  1204         ENVOY 1.7TD 5DR H/B                            2778  2970
  1206         LS 1.6I 5DR H/B                                2863  3004
  1210         LS 1.7TD 5DR H/B                               2915  3084
  1212         LS 1.8I 5DR H/B                                2865  3029
  1214         LS 2.0I 16V 5DR H/B                            3067      
  1218         GLS 1.7TD 5DR H/B                              3081  3279
  1220         GLS 1.8I 5DR H/B                               3029  3223
  1222         GLS 2.0I 16V 5DR H/B                           3233  3548
  1224         V6 2.5I 24V 5DR H/B                            4175  4501
  1226         CDX 1.7 TD 5DR H/B                             3513  3910
  1228         CDX 2.0 I 16V 5DR H/B                          3932  4438
  1230         CDX 2.5I V6 5DR H/B                VELOUR      4683  5442
  1232          "   "    "  "   "                 LEATHER     4782        
  1234         SRI 2.0I 16V 5DR H/B                           3735  4167

  OMEGA SALOONS
  1302             SELECT 2.0I 16V  4DR SAL                   4060  4269
  1304             SELECT 2.5 TD  4DR SAL                     4457  4700
  1306             GLS 2.0I 16V  4DR SAL                      4210  4397
  1308             GLS 2.5I V6 24V  4DR SAL                   4600  4863
  1310             GLS 2.5 TD  4DR SAL                        4609  4810
  1312             CD 2.0I 16V  4DR SAL                       4511  4888
  1314             CD 2.5I V6 24V  4DR SAL                    4754  5223
  1316             CD 2.5 TD  4DR SAL                         4913  5282
  1318             CDX 2.5I V6 24V  4DR SAL                   5306  5812
  1320             CDX 2.5 TD  4DR SAL                        5487  6076
  1322             ELITE 2.5 TD  4DR SAL                      5915  6398
  1324             ELITE 3.0 V6  4DR SAL                      5939  6903

  OMEGA ESTATES
  1332             SELECT 2.0I 16V  5DR EST                   3979  4397
  1334             SELECT 2.5 TD  5DR EST                     4314  4776
  1336             GLS 2.0I 16V  5DR EST                      4116  4623
  1338             GLS 2.5I V6 24V  5DR EST                   4351  4758
  1340             GLS 2.5 TD  5DR EST                        4455  4875
  1342             CD 2.0I 16V  5DR EST                       4398  4839
  1344             CD 2.5I V6 24V  5DR EST                    4617  5159
  1346             CD 2.5 TD  5DR EST                         4732  5252
  1348             CDX 2.5I V6 24V  5DR EST                   5133  5723
  1350             CDX 2.5 TD  5DR EST                        5265  5824
  1352             ELITE 3.0 V6 24V 5DR EST                   5629  6788
  1354             ELITE 2.5 TD  5DR EST                      5550  6083

  CALIBRA               
  1400             8V 2.0I 3DR COUPE                          3708  3968
  1402             16V 2.0I 3DR COUPE               CLOTH     4033  4164      
  1404              "    "   "    "                 LEATHER   4112  4290
  1406             2.5I V6 3DR                      CLOTH     4745  4718
  1408               "  "   "                       LEATHER   4823  4846
  1410             TURBO 16V 4 X 4 2.0I 3DR COUPE   CLOTH     5138  5419
  1412               "    "    "    "    "    "     LEATHER   5219  5548

  FRONTERA              
  1500             2.0I SPORT 3DR                             3587  3587
  1502             2.0I SPORT SOFT-TOP                        3643  
  1504             2.4I ESTATE 5DR                            4087
  1506             2.3TD ESTATE 5DR                           4235
  1506A            2.0I S SPORT 3DR                           3658  3466
  1507A            2.2I 16V 5DR                               4276  4032
  1508A            2.8TD 3DR                                  3987  3873
  1509A            2.8TD S 3DR                                4128  4001

  MONTEREY              
  1600             RS 3.2I V6 3DR                             6040  6345
  1602             RS 3.2I V6 AUTO 3DR                        6285  6603
  1604             RS 3.1 TD 3DR                              5726  6117
  1606             LTD 3.2I V6 5DR                            6370  6704
  1608             LTD 3.2I V6 AUTO 5DR                       6618  6962
  1610             LTD 3.1 TD 5DR                             6035  6495

    

    OK, I didn't check, but doesn't it seem very fishy that the prices of
    the standard cars coincides *exactly* with the allowances that were set
    for the start of FY95. 
    
    Disclaimer : The prices concide exactly today, anyone who extracted a
    list from VTX yesterday will note that the prices were actually higher
    for at least these two cars.
    
    One more to add to the list of things that the company has changed to
    its advantage at the expense of employees.
    
    If I'd been trying to do this, I would at least have changed
    the prices ever so slightly, so that instead of it being 2950 it was
    2890 or 2985 or something like that so that overall it made very little
    difference, but was not exactly the same.
    � Copyright Graham Smith 1995

    A bog standard Vauxhall Cavalier 2.0i LS - increases 470 (ish) pounds -
    the same as an Omega Elite ?
    
    I don't care what Digital / Vauxhall or LEASTplan say - that's just got
    to be rubbish. 
    
    Why is it then that any other Leasing company propoganda is splattered
    with examples of ALL their vehicles being reduced in price due to
    changes in the Tax law. I wouldn't mind if someone would come out and
    say that the company don't want their staff to have company cars - but
    to come out with the 'ESSENTIAL CAR USER' status, and then up the
    charges for the employee is absolute nonsense.
    
    Is there any official statements for the increase in prices ?
                                                                 

    Like it or lump it appears to be the answer.
    
    I've mailed Pat Axford about this when the prices first came out
    but have received no reply. However, in an earlier mail she replied
    to me saying that the old prices would remain until July '96.
    
    I'd suggest taking it up with your manager. 
    
    Lets face it as long as the allowance matches the benchmark cars they
    can quote whatever they like for anything else. 
    
    Royston

    Maybe the Vauxhall extra allowance has changed due to the volume of
    business we did last year, hence the increase in prices.

    re my .331 �no changes to the PCL apart from the inclusion of the
               �Vectra range
    
    I've just received a very comprehensive mail from Pat Axford explaining
    that the new FY96 prices remain fixed till the end of July. I had
    misunderstood her original reply as meaning the existing FY95 prices
    would not change.
    
    She also confirmed that the FY96 benchmark  position for levels 1-9 was
    within the Cavalier spead and the supplements have been set in line
    with the Cavalier driver prices. FY97 will be a different story and
    the benchmark cars and supplements will be reviewed then.
    
    The only question remains is when Cavaliers are no longer available
    (they are no longer in production) what will the benchmark cars be
    for the remainder of FY95 (is it wrong to assume the equivilent models
    in the Vectra range?). 
    
    Royston

    And Vauxhall prices went up on 20/8/95! So watch the tax implications.....
    
    Tim

    From VTX.........
    
    
    The Preferred Car List is not available at the moment, if you urgently
    require any driver price information please contact Lease Plan on DTN
    78308066.
    
    Wot's going on??

    Hopefully they have received so much -ve feedback about the prices they
    are being recalculated and will be less than last year's prices :-)
    
    Royston

Hmm, I'll believe that when I see it.

Chris$cynic.

    Any one noticed whats happened to the car prices especialy the Vectra
    I thought the standard car for up to level 8 was a 1.8ls cavalier as
    the cavalier is no longer made would I be correct in thinking the
    standard car will now be the 1.8ls Vectra ?.
    If this is the case how come a 1.8ls vectra costs more than �2950
    has some one got their sums wrong or is this a very large typo.
    Either way we end up paying more for less.
    
    regards
    		Rob.

    I have just recieved a mail from Pat Axford part of which reads:
    
    
    
    >>Thank you for your most recent mail.
    
    >>Since my earlier mail to you we have discovered a number of errors on
    >>VTX.  These are being corrected.
    
    >>One of the errors is that the Vectra prices have been calculated
    >>using the wrong formula.  Part of the calculation for existing
    >>models
    
    >>takes account of anticipated price increases.  As the Vectra has been
    >>introduced part-way through the year, this level of allowance is
    >>not appropriate.  All the Vectra prices are therefore being
    >>recalculated.
    
    >>Due to this and other problems, the Car Scheme optionon VTX will
    >>not be available until Monday.
    
    Hope this helps,  Kevin

    re:-1
    
    My interpretation of that is that the prices will be a bit higher???
    
    Or am i reading it wrong?
    
    Sheleen.

I have a company car ...its a 2.0 SRI that was a take over car , two years ago.
I pay about 300 pounds per year towards it. Its now done 65,000 miles and just
passed its first M.O.T. . I'm more than happy with the . How long can I hold
off without having to order a new car and down grade?

K.R.

    Shhhhhh - delete .-1 quickly :-)
    
    Jc
    

    >>My interpretation of that is that the prices will be a bit higher???
    
    No, I think the opposite.
    
    The equation included a multiplier to deal with anticipated price
    rises. Since this multiplier will not be used, prices of the Vectra
    should come down by 50 or 60 pence. :-)
    
    :Kevin 

    Standby for the new recalculated Vectra prices in vtx.

I ordered an Omega GLS on Sept 18th, then I was hit with all this stuff 
about price changes.  I checked the *actual* purchase price increase for 
this model inc delivery charge, and it comes to 3.8%.  Lease Plan also 
told me that they would honour the 'old' price, Pat didn't seem so sure,
and apparently every time they tried to submit new prices to VTX they 
found an error, sigh :-(

SO, given the VAT decrease (max 17.5%), and the small-ish price increase,
(3.8%) why is the cost of the car going up at all?  Are we getting a reduced
discount from Vauxhall?

What really agrrovates me is that, if the company is going to reduce the
value (purchasing power, not necessarily ��� value) of our allowance,
lets hear it up front, and not hide it behind a smoke screen of fancy
words, worthy of a Tory party policy statement.......

This has prompted the following mail requesting clarification to Pat,
who as yet has not responded, but I am sure she will soon.

	Tim
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Dear Pat
        
        Further to our telephone conversation this morning, could you 
        please clarify the situation for someone such as myself and my 
        manager, Malcolm Alderton @OLO.
        
        Both Malcolm and I have selected Omega cars, based in all good 
        faith on the prices shown at the time, some three weeks ago now.
        
        I for one carefully budgeted the model I wanted, so that it met 
        but did not exceed the allowance I receive.
        
        Am I therefore going to be charged a higher rate for the car now, 
        or as Lease Plan indicated to me today, be charged the lower of 
        the two prices, i.e. the current price and the new price?
        
        In the attached mail you sent out you state that some car prices 
        have been kept at the old price or may be less due to the new way 
        VAT is calculated on cars.  The benefit is being passed on to the 
        driver, and hence there is no reason to increase the car 
        allowance.
        
        If this is true why is the Omega price rise (10% I understand) 
        being passed on to me?  If this figure is correct, it is not a 
        trivial increase.
        
        Compared with the leasing power of the allowance last year, it 
        would appear to have decreased in value significantly.
        
        Quote
        -----
        Due to the excellent deals Digital has negotiated with Vauxhall, 
        it has been possible to hold many car prices at or near the FY95 
        values and some prices have even decreased.  Wherever possible, 
        these savings are being passed on to employees through a reduced 
        driver price.  Recent changes in VAT have also been taken into 
        account when determining prices.
        
        As a result, car supplements for FY96 remain unchanged........
        
        End Quote
        ---------
        
        Is it not only fair therefore that our orders be honoured at the 
        prices being quoted at the time, or that the allowance be 
        adjusted to reflect the increase in the lease cost, therefore 
        truly passing the benefit on to the driver?
        
        Having the opportunity to re-order a car of lesser value is not 
        in my humble opinion addressing the basic issue, that the value 
        of the car allowance is - even with beneficial tax changes - 
        being devalued.
        
        Thank you in advance for clarifying this matter,
        
        Kind Regards
        

    Hi,
    
    
    There used to be a note which showed recent quotations. However, I'm
    having a bit of a problem finding it. Any ideas?
    
    
    Cheers
    

    Doesn't the bit in the title on this note string give you a clue ?
    (ie "quotes in 2290")
    
    Royston

    vis 354.
    
    I believe the Company is achieving a better net price due to the VAT
    rebates etc, but they are also trying to reduce actual Company expense
    (rather than employee expense), hence the price increases to you and
    me. Even if prices remained flat from Vauxhall, I expect no discount
    for the VAT reclaim element would be passed onto employees.
    
    Anyone know any different?
    
    Tim
    

        From .349
        
    >>Due to this and other problems, the Car Scheme optionon VTX will
    >>not be available until Monday.
        
        Wednesday afternoon, and it's still not there.
        
        Ian.

It's Back.

Huw.

    
    Just had a quick look through the new prices on VTX, the Astra
    convertible is down to an affordable price now; I remember when 
    I was looking for a Leasemobile the starting price for the 1.6
    was about 4 grand.  New prices are -
    
      10041                 1.6i (E-Drive)                  3,468
      10042                 1.8i 16v                        4,225
    
    
    Chris.

    It'll be interesting to see wether non-Vauxhall car quotes seem to be
    closer to the Vauxhall ones now, with the new VAT laws and the apparent
    increase in Vauxhall prices on the PCL.
    
    Greg

    
    re:.99
    
    The CRX quote is scandalous!  It isn't even the VTi with the serious
    engine in it and it's four and a half grand?!
    
    The MX5 quote looks quite reasonable for the 1.8, it's on a par with
    the Astra convertible and is a much better convertible choice for the
    cash (IMO).
    
    Chris(whostillwantsaCivicVTiorCRX)

    Honda no longer import the VTi CRX (Or Civic I think), sad as I was in
    the market for such a car and would have bought one.
    
    	Rik

    Is the MX5, the two seater soft top?

    Yep,  what does it come with ? 
    
    Chris

    We (a couple of graduates at the CSC Basingstoke) don't appear
    to be getting a car allowance as such, but a salary uplift instead.
    
    
    My question is then around the cost of leasing the car on leaseplan.
    
    1)
    Would I pay the driver price from my salary after tax and then pay
    no company car tax...or
    
    2)
    Would I pay the driver price before tax on my salary and then the
    company car tax.
    
    I've spoke to two people, leaseplane and HR helpdesk.  Leaseplan went
    with option 1, where HR went with option 2.  HR were BTW, unaware that
    we were not eligable for car allowance and things have changed.
    
    What is the correct cost of getting a car through leaseplan then ? and 
    how come there is such and extraordinary lack of communication ?  
    
    Who does know the real answer ? and what is it ?
 
    Any help, ideas appreciated.
    
    
    Chris (very confussed)

    re .365
    
    >>>Yep,  what does it come with ? 
    
    Rear fog light, two seats, steering wheel, heater, indicators, wipers,
    who needs a radio (only standard in the S) when you have 130BHP of
    usable country lane power as the revs hit 7k, combined with handling
    that exceeds my limited driving abilities. 
    
    What else do you need Chris?
    
    Dave (Happy MX5 driver)

    >>     What else do you need Chris?
    
    A car allowance. :-)
    
    
    Chris

    Leaseplan administer our car scheme, they do not get involved with
    salries/allowances etc. As far as I know.
    
    Therefore I would go with whatever HR tell you.
    
    Anyway option 2 is what applies to everyone else using the scheme - why
    would you be different?
    
    Andrew
    
    

    � why would you be different?
    
    Andrew, there is apparently a review going on locally as to new hires
    not getting cars as part of the package due to the neglegible business
    mileage the job requires so the car allowance is built into the salary
    offered and not salary + car allowance. This is good news in a way as
    overtime / shift / pension is then based on the higher figure.
    
    There is apparently an option to then opt for a car on the scheme. The
    query is whether this would come out of taxed income (therefore not
    getting clobbered on tax for benifit in kind) or non taxed income.
    
    Royston
        

    I think it will be option 2, but know one know's for sure, hence the
    note really.
         
    As clear as mud at the momently,
    
    Chris

    I did understand that, so these new hires are just like non supplement
    people who opt to lease. Not many these days probably but certainly
    some.
    
    HR are more appropriate than Leaseplan as I said.
    
    Andrew

    I'll update the note as soon as I fond out for definate, but my bets
    are with the HR option at the moment, which means there's no real
    difference then getting an allowance really...
    
    Wierd,
    
    Chris

    
    If an employee, who does not get a car allowance, decides to go into
    the scheme...does he/she pay car tax (ie. taxable benefit) or just get
    taxed on his/her salary.
    
    oo sorry same question as Chris's really
    
    Rich
      

    Perhaps the people at the Inland Revenue might be able to help you.
    Just an idea....
    
    My guess would be that you would be treated the same as someone who is
    given a supplement. So:
    
    	* the lease price would be deducted from your salary before 
    	  you pay any income tax;
    
    	* your tax code would be adjusted so that you paid extra tax based 
    	  on the value of the car and the business mileage you travelled.
    
    I think that's how it works anyway.
    David

    When I had a lease car but no supplement/allowance, I was taxed in
    exactly the same way as if it was a company car.  Are we still allowed
    to lease a car without an allowance?
    
    mikef  

    Is the whole driver price deducted from you salary before tax or only
    the allowance value ?
    
    Cheers,
    
    Chris.
    
    PS...
    >>  Are we still allowed to lease a car without an allowance?
    I guess we will see when the car screen on VTX is updated.  I think
    you must be able to.
         

RE: a note a ways back re orders on the border
of the new '96 car prices.

Car Fleet/Lease Plan have agreed to let me have
my Omega at the '95 price, not the (�300+) '96
price.

In my view they have done the honorable thing,
and fair play to them for that.

Tim

A happier man now, sad I can't have 'till Jan 96 :-(

    re-1
    
    When I was doing this (going back almost three years now), the driver
    price of the actual car was deducted from my salary before tax.  This -
    I guess - is why the tax people then taxed me as if it was a normal
    company car.
    
    Hope this helps...
    
    Mikef

    It is helping....Once the car scheme guide is out then I can make some
    further calculations.
    
    Ta,
    Chris

    re .366
    
    Hello Dave,
    
    Can you give any more details on the spec? Alloys, Power steering etc?
    Thanks.  :Kevin.

    Forgive the continuing rathole of this note.
    
    Kevin,
    
    More details on the spec? .366 lists the spec for the 1.8i which I have.
    
    If you what/need the toys, extra weight and have another 3k spare then go for the
    1.8iS. leccie windows,power steering (not needed),air bag,ABS, Clarion
    RDS cassette (not needed with hood down), leather steering wheel, sill
    and speaker kick plates, power mirrors, central locking (IMHO wasted),
    alloys wheels with wider tyres (the narrow ones 185/60X14 suit me
    fine).
    
    If you need more info try getting the brochure.
     

    Nice MR2 quote, NOT!!
    
    I seem to remember the MR2 used to be around (maybe �500 more) than the
    level 8 supplement!!
    
    
    Greg

    
    I am in the process of deciding my next lease car and in trying to
    figure what it might cost me I looked back at the driver details on
    pricing of my current one.
    
    How do I compare last times quote of "Driver Price �1500" to todays 
    cost of say �5000.
    
    Lawson
    
    
    

    �compare last times quote of "Driver Price �1500"...
    
    It depends what level supplement you get.
    
    From vtx -
    
      Below level 8         2,950.00
      Level 8 and 9         3,560.00
      Level 10 and 11       4,460.00
      Level 12              4,940.00
    
    
    So for example if you are level 8 you can look at driver prices for
    around 5060 (3560+1500).
    
    Royston

Hmmmmm,

In June '93 my lease cost was quoted as 157 for a Renault Clio 16V for a level 8
supplement. The supplement was split into two parts: 1300 + 2260 (=3560) I was
still given the 1300 and had the 157 car cost taken off leaving me 1143 of  my
total supplement to fund the tax hit. In August '93 the two part supplement was
abolished and I now see my supplement as the full 3560 with the car cost of 2417
(=2260+157) this still leaves me with 1143 unspent.

So I reckon that a "last times quote of "Driver Price �1500"" would 
equate to a todays price of 2260+1500 = 3760.

Phil.

    Maybe not the way to work it out.
    
    If you were a level 8 and had a driver price of �1500.00, you would of
    had �1300.00 level 8 supplement towards it.
    
    So, you should be looking at (�1500.00 - �1300.00) = �200.00 + �3560.00
                                                       = � 3760.00
    
    Not much of a car now for the same!!!!
    
    Andy

    Re my .373
    
    Sorry my note was cack. I get the below level 8 supplement and was
    forgetting the way the old style driver price worked out with the
    extra allowance of level 8 and above.
    
    Royston

    
    Can anyone tell me what the opt-out cash alternative figures are at the
    moment, or where I can find them out?
    
    Thanks,
    
    terry

    As it happens I listed them this morning. See .373
    
    Royston

    
    Ohhhhhh I always thought there was a different figure if you opted to 
    take the cash.... Thanks,
    
    Terry
    

    Terry,
    
    I could be wrong (i'll get me coat) but as far as I know the cash
    alternative is the same.
    
    What I can't figure though is if it is variable. For example if you
    opt out now and take the below level 8 figure of 2950 are you stuck
    with this forever or with it increase/decrease depending on the
    allowance review each year ?
    
    I ask because the allowance went down from 3400 to 2950 when we started
    the Vauxhall preferred list a couple of years ago and I know someone
    who still gets the 3400 cash because he opted out before it was
    reduced.
    
    Royston

    If you opted out (or never opted in to) the old car scheme (prior to
    the Vauxhall deal) then your supplement equivalent in your salary
    should reflect the higher of the two figures mentioned in the previous
    note for a level 8 (if you're a level 8 of course).
    
    However, I understood that if you were to be promoted, or decide to opt
    into the car scheme, then the terms of the new car supplement
    immediately come into effect.
    
    Reargards,
    
    Stephen

    
    RE: MR2 quote...
    
    
    I aggree, my MR2 (T-Bar) was a driver price of 4700 when I ordered it in 
    August 93. How they can justify 6368 now I'll never know....
           
    Graham 

    
    2 separate issues :
    
    Cost of leasecar. The cost of the lease is deducted from your pretax
    salary whether or not you are a supplement holder. Should be the same
    for everybody.
    
    Company car tax. You will be taxed if you receive a leasecar as if it
    was a company car. I only know of one exception, that is if you
    contract to NEVER use the car privately & contract to ALWAYS park it on
    company premises overnight, the co.car tax may be waived.
    
    That is my considered amateur opinion :-)
    
    Tony.

    
    So am I right in thinking that if I take a non-vauxhall car, the cost
    of the lease will be greater, but (from looking at the figures) the
    list price of the car will be less, thus reducing the tax liability
    (since that is based on the value of the vehicle and not the lease).
    
    Also, does anyone out there know what the tax bands are for 20, 25 and
    40% rates? I have looked around in Payroll VTX and found nothing....
    
    Thanks,
    
    Terry

    RIOT02::EURO_SAD  note 137 discusses all you tax questions.
    
    Hope that helps,
    
    Chris

    
    Driver price for an MGF 1.8i VVC is �5139
    Driver price for an MGF 1.8i VVC with roof and metallic paint is �5573
    
    A difference of �434 pounds. Over three years, this would amount to 
    �1302 pounds difference. 
    
    From the MG price list, the roof is �995 and the paint is �230,
    totalling �1225.
    
    errrr, I wanted to lease the roof and paint, not buy them!!!!!
    
    POL.

    POL
    
    It has always been this way. The lease co. work it out so you pay
    entirely for any options you specify. The reasoning for this is
    that options don't usually count when the car is sold off at end of
    lease.
    
    Royston

    Re: .385
    POL
    
    If you decide to go for this car, how about borrowing the money and
    purchase the roof yourself? Should cost less than �40/month over three 
    years. When the car goes back you can sell the roof and recoup some of
    the purchase price - about half I reckon.
    
    Dave 
   

Hi,

  Does anyone out there have a Quote for the Peugeot 306 XSi or S16?

  They are in my opinion very nice looking car, and I think probably a 
  better alternative to an Astra Sport.

  Does anyone have one?
  What are they like to drive?
  Has anyone compared the Peugeot with the Astra?

I'll look forward to some replies.

Cheers,

AL.

    
    >         <<< Note 2288.387 by CHEFS::BARRON_D >>>
    
    >If you decide to go for this car, how about borrowing the money and
    >purchase the roof yourself? Should cost less than �40/month over three
    >years. When the car goes back you can sell the roof and recoup some of
    >the purchase price - about half I reckon.
    
    Being a tight arsed Scots git, this had crossed my mind. I'm just
    trying to figure out how to get the paint back that I bought and paid
    for!!!!  
    
    POL.    :>>>>>>>>

In reply to note 2467:

I had a test drive (on behalf of 'er indoors) in a 306 XSi a few months ago, and
I was very impressed. It seemed very well screwed together, the driving position
was excellent, and it was good fun to drive. I agree with you that it looks good
too (although my other half didn't think so - she opted for the Rover 220GSi
instead!)
I would rate it (based on my limited experience) as the best car in it's class.
It's also a pretty new design, whereas the Astra is getting rather dated now. 
If you could stretch to the S16, I would think it would be a superb car. 
I don't know whether it's just coincidence, but over the years I've found
Peugeot salesman the most helpful and least patronising of the lot, too!

CW

    RE.1
    
    HI AL
    
    I HAD A QUOTE FOR A 306 SI6 NOT SO LONG AGO
    BAD NEWS..#4800 APPROX IF MEMORY SERVES ME RIGHT........
    
    DEAN.
    

re: 2467.2

Hi Dean,

	Thanks for your reply.

	Yes, 4800 is a bit too much to shell out. I'll probably have to go for
	the Xsi instead. But Peugeot isn't Vauxhall is it, so it will probably be 
	expensive too.

	Shame. [sob, sob]

AL.

re: 2467.1

Hi CW,

	Sounds like you really liked it. I might have to take one for
	a test drive myself. 

	However, that might be just too painful. A bit like a one night
	stand with Cindy Crawford. Probably brilliant but one would know
	that it wouldn't last forever, and when the time arrived when one could
	have her, she'd probably be an old wreck! (ha, ha)

AL.

    Ah, brings back the old days of MG's with HRW's. Remember those quarter
    inch thick metallic foil stick on thingys....
    
    Nice to see theres no break with tradition - HRW is an option - nice.
    
    Stuart

> Being a tight arsed Scots git

If money bothers you that much then why pay for a different paint finish? 

Dave.

    
    >If money bothers you that much then why pay for a different paint
    >finish?
    
    because I'd enjoy owning the car more if it had the green metallic
    paint rather than the solid red paint. It's just a case of would I be
    prepared to pay �250 or so over the three years for the paint. The
    answer is yes and I've put in a quote for the VVC with metallic paint.
    
    POL$not_as_tight_as_he_makes_out_to_be

    You will off course need someone to swap cars with if you need to
    transport goods and people.  
    
    I will of course be happy to strike up a deal.
    
    Chris :-}

>because I'd enjoy owning the car

But you won't.

Dave ;-)

    Does anyone know how to access this new LPDIRECT scheme which will
    enable electronic ordering and progress tracking as well as being able
    to scan thro' all recent quotes for non GM cars?
    
    The mail from leaseplan said that details could be obtained by mailing
    LPDIRECT but this just seems to bounce back.
    
    Anyone any ideas?
    
    
    Charles

        � The mail from leaseplan ...
        
        What mail?  This sounds very interesting- can you post the
        mail here for those of us who haven't seen it.
        
        Ian.
        

re.395:

An email has been sent to managers. Haven't seen the all employee version arrive
yet. When that arrives then it can be posted.

Dave.

    
    extract from a letter received from car fleet...
    
    The approximate delivery times that are being given for the MGF VVC's is
    july/august 96. The reason for the long delay is something to do with
    all the MGF's being built to order, and various bits being hand assembled.
    
    POL.

    Well thats rather 'rained' on your fireworks Paul !
    
    Royston

�    The approximate delivery times that are being given for the MGF VVC's is
�    july/august 96. The reason for the long delay is something to do with
�    all the MGF's being built to order, and various bits being hand assembled.
        
        I read an article at the weekend that said delivery times on
        the MGF were currently 2 months.
        
        Ian.

    There are a couple of 1.8's around now, however most people will have 
    to wait till February for the 1.8 and June/July for the VVC.
    
    That's according to the Stephen Palmers Rover garage.
    
    Chris

    .401 has been set hidden as it reproduces in full a mail addressed to
    managers.
    
    Dave made the point in .396 that this should not be posted.
    
    I'll give an update on this shortly.
    
    Royston (co-mod)

re.402:

To clarify:

It can be posted with the author's permission. An all employee communication has
implicit permission.

Dave.

    A quick update. I have deleted .401 and informed the author.
    
    Royston

I have heard a rumour that all current valid quotes from Leaseplan will be
on the system for all to see , anyone any idea when ?????

					Stuart

    Maybe it's my imagination  - but I thought it was November last week.
    We appear to have stepped back into October - but at least the year's
    right. 
    
    Actually - this be an excellent way of declaring better corporate
    results - if at first we don't succeed, try again!
    
    Cheers
    
    John
    

    John, the recent replies were moved here from another topic by a fellow
    moderator.
    
    Royston

    For information on Calibra SE5 see note 1120.273.
    
    I had hoped it would be a tad cheaper.
    
    Chris

>    For information on Calibra SE5 see note 1120.273.
>    
>    I had hoped it would be a tad cheaper.

that is a bit steep, the SE4 (manual change) weighed in at around �3,500.

Chris.

    I'm gutted...and looking at the Vectra.
    
    Chris

     �looking at the Vectra.
    
    Chris, don't even think about getting a boring rep mobile. Get
    something more sporty. Get the pineapple yellow 1.8 16v Astra (3 dr).
    
    Plenty of time later in life to have boring cars. Don't I know it :-)
    
    Royston

    I cantacted LeasePlan today to ask if they wanted to extend my lease
    to 36 months from 30 months as I will not be reaching 60000 miles by
    April (current end of lease). They decided to keep the end of lease as
    it is as they would rather have the car back under mileage than over.

    My car is leased through hertz and there is apparently a time window of
    _3_ months before and after the end of lease date when the car can go
    back. This is interesting as previously I was told it was 2 months.

    So I can get a new car anytime from January onwards.

    Time to start seriously thinking about what to do.

    Royston

My last car went back almost four (!) months early; PHH seemed to be quite
happy to take it back even though it only had 45,000 miles on the clock.
Didn't understand why, but I didn't complain either!

Chris.

    Whats the story there Chris ? Why did you return it so early.
    
    Royston

Humm - My car is on 3 year lease. I will do my 60,000 well before 2 
years are up. But, given the cost increases, I'd rather like to keep 
my car longer. What do you reckon the chances are ?

Alan

    
    
    
    
    
    
                                         0
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Martin$nice_escort_going_back_6_months_early_crappy_astra_arriving_soon

    RE: Extended lease.
    
    Ask Vauxhall for a test drive of an obscure car and don't bother to
    chase them when nothing happens.  I requested a test drive of a
    Cavalier 2.0 GLS Hatchback Automatic which took about 2 months to find,
    and then a  Cavalier 2.0 GLS Saloon Automatic, which took about 4
    months to find one.  If Car Fleet had chased me for my car back, I
    would have said that I was waiting for a test drive from Vauxhall.
    
    My car went back about 7 months late, which was long enough for me to
    find the car I wanted at the right price, and leave the scheme.
    
    tmp

>   Whats the story there Chris ? Why did you return it so early.
    
nothing very interesting, I just wanted to get my hands on the SE4 before
they weren't available any more.  Car fleet said it was okay to put the
order in early, and nobody seemed particularly bothered about my Rover
going back well before the end of its lease.

Chris.

    I don't think there is a notes string discussing the prices of buying
    cars at the end of lease?  (I did a dir/...).
    
    Just wondering if anyone has seen any quotes for buying a TD Cavalier
    atthe end of lease?  I'm curious as to how competetive the prices would
    be...                                                         
    
    ta
    
    Mikef

    Mike, the note used for this is #833. Check out the last reply which
    was mine. I wish now I had bought my old RS Fiesta.
    
    Time marches on and coincidently enough my Cav TD comes to end of lease
    at Easter and I too am interested in knowing the price.
    
    Mine will have done nearly 60000 miles at the end of the 30 month
    lease. I expect the price to be between #5k and 6k. 
    
    What milage is yours ?
    
    Royston

    re-1
    
    I'm 16 months from the end of lease (just cracked 32000 miles), I'm
    just trying to plan my finances ahead.  5 - 6K doesn't sound too bad
    to me, but I'm not an expert.
    
    ta
    
    Mikef

Mike,

My Dad bought a Cavalier TD at Auction three weeks ago.
M reg, 15 months old,  11K miles. FSH
�7400.

Huw.

    That certainly seems a fair price. It seems strange that a year old
    low mileage car like that would end up at auction. I always thought
    that auctions were full of high mileage ex-rep mobiles.
    
    Royston

    Some companies and especially rental companies sell their cars yearly,
    Royston.

    A private buyer can enter a car as well in an auction...
    
    It may be that 7400 is a good price for a private sale, it may also be
    a repo car.
    
    I know someone who got a Lotus Esprit at an auction... that was a repo.
    
    Stuart

    Ah, good point Greg. I was forgeting about rental companies, some of
    which replace their cars at 6 months.
    
    Royston

    Brian,
    
    Do those prices include the options? Or do we have to add those on as
    well?
    
    Cheers,
    Stuart
    (I'm sure I know the answer, but I could be wrong!)

    
    I am currently on my 3rd Cavalier, I have always taken a low spec model
    to try and boost my salary. Currently I have a 1.7TD Envoy, to replace it
    with a Vectra 1.7TDS Envoy will cost me an extra �43 net per month.
    Which in the face of no salary increase for four years does not seem
    like the excellent deal Pat Axford spoke of when announcing the FY95/96
    scheme.
    
    I am seriously considering leaving the scheme now. Are there any traps
    I should look out for when re-entering the owner-driver car market?
    
    Martin

    Re LPdirect quotes in 2290
    
    Just like the old days with vtx !
    
    Royston

Ouch,
	I'm only paying 2417 for my current Clio ('til June '96)

From LEASEPLAN's RENAULT prices :-

<   > CLIO 3DR 95 1.8 16V                         333.10   3,997.20     12


Phil.

    �I'm only paying 2417 
    
    That must have been one of the last pre vauxhall scheme quotes.
    
    It looks extremely low for a 16V Clio even so.
    
    Royston

Sorry if I missed this in the notes stream, but are the quotes in 2290.<last_few>
inclusive of the extra insurance hit that Digital loads higher performance cars with ?


Phil.

    MONDEO 4DR 96.3 2.0I 16V SI                 331.54   3,978.48 
    
    18008         2.0 16v SRi     4,074                   16735.00
    
    
    So, the Mondeo is cheaper than the Vectra equivelent. The Vectra has
    A/C as standard but this does not make sense. And the Mondeo is the
    superior car according to the tests.
    

I noticed that in the leaseplan lists which someone posted - the Mondeo Ghia
which is near as whatsit the same as the Vectra CDX (including A/C) is about
300 quid cheaper.

Someone is taking the  Michael here....IMHO

    I think the prices are including insurance beacuse th MGF prices are
    the same as Leaseplean sent to me as an indinidual quote. :Kevin 

    
    re: - a few back
    
    The increase in lease price for my Mondeo with a/c added was
    almost offset by the assumption that the end-of-lease value of the car 
    would increase, ie there was a marginal increase in lease cost but not
    as much as I had expected. I had to argue the point with them however. 
    
    I don't know the cost of the a/c on the price as also included were a 
    towbar and passenger airbag, but the total increase was just under �200 
    per year if I remember correctly.
    
    
    
    
    

    My current lease car is a Primera saloon, the lease is up very soon
    and I need to order a replacement.  However I need a little more space and 
    would like an estate.  I'm quite happy to take a Vauxhall and avail
    myself of the "Good Deal" thats been negotiated however, the Omega is a 
    little too large for what I need and the Astra too small.
    
    I asked Leaseplan if I could keep my Primera until the Vectra Estate
    was available.  They replied that the Vectra Estate would not be
    available until probably the new year and as such I could not keep the
    Primera that long.  I asked if they had any suitable lease vehicles that 
    I could take over in the interim period.  Not at the moment they
    responded.
    
    SO, are there any disgruntled leasecar drivers with a similar car to
    my Pimera Saloon that want to come out of the scheme early ??
    
    If there are any then please get in touch and lets see if we can come
    to some arrangement whereby I take over the remaining lease.
    
    
    Barry,
    
    7-830-3468
    
     
    take over 
      

    Barry
    
    I'd check first to see if you are allowed to do a swap.
    
    My understanding is that mid term lease swaps are no longer permitted.
    
    Royston

They are - it takes a managers permission (I did it)

Alan

    Its changed since a few months ago then as a guy here was all set to
    swap his car with someone with managers approval but car fleet put a
    total block on it.
    
    Good luck anyway.
    
    Royston

    Hi 
    
    I'm looking for the price on the latest Astra sports 2.0 16v
    has anyone got a quote on one yet, I've looked at entry 2290
    but its not made in there yet,  I'm looking for alternatives
    as well so if you have had any interesting quotes latey I
    would be very pleased to hear them.
                                    
    many thanks.
    
    Mike.

    The place to look is VTX.
    
    Check out the car fleet option and look at the preferred car list.
    
    It says the price will appear soon. 
    
    You may want to ring leaseplan to see if there is any update.
    
    Royston

�    The place to look is VTX.
�    
�    Check out the car fleet option and look at the preferred car list.
        
        ...and if you get there from the UK_NATIONAL page, you should
        see the newer list. Some links from other places (e.g. REOVTX) 
        take you an old (Nov '95) version of the Car Fleet pages with
        an out-of-date preferred car list.
        
        Ian (who found out the hard way).

        Has anyone noticed that a 'Takeover Cars' section has now
        reappeared in Fleet VTX?
        
   L e a s e   P l a n             P r e f e r r e d   C a r   L i s t
      21-Feb-1996 13:58                        Takeover Cars


  Vauxhall Frontera 2.3TD Est   M/94    �4682           06/10/96
  Vauxhall Cavalier 1.7 TD LS   N/95    �2934           03/09/98
  Toyota RAV4 2.0 2.0 GX        N/95    �4232           26/04/98
  Citroen ZX 1.9 TD Memphis     N/95    �3476           02/08/98
  Vauxhall Cavalier 1.7 TD GLS  M/95    �3081           02/02/97
  Vauxhall Astra 1.6 GLS        M/94    �2787           12/10/97
  Vauxhall Astra 1.7 TD GLS     N/95    �2818           13/09/98
  Vauxhall Calibra 2.5 V6 Lth   M/95    �4981           06/04/98
  Vauxhall Tigra 1.6            M/95    �4186           07/02/98
  Vauxhall Astra 1.8 Sport      M/95    �3399           04/05/98
  Vauxhall Cavalier 1.7 TD CDX  M/95    �3513           13/07/97
  Vauxhall Calibra SE4          M/95    �3466           19/09/97
  VW Golf 2.0 GTI 8V            *       �4128           19/10/98
  Vauxhall Calibra 2.0 8v Cl    N/95    �3904           07/12/98

    Frontera's a bad deal. Just got a 2.8 Diamond for less than they're
    asking there.
    
    Richard

	I've been looking at the quotes in VTX for Astras. I'm curious
	about the comparative prices of 5 door hatchbacks and estates.

	The Merit 1.6i estate is �280 more than the hatchback. As you
	move up the range, this differential gradually decreases until
	you get to the CDX models, where the estates are actually *cheaper*.

	Anyone got any idea why this is?  

	Ian.



5 door h/b      Merit 1.6i                      2,690           11115.00
Estate          Merit 1.6i                      2,976           11865.00

5 door h/b      Merit 1.7D Turbo                2,650           11145.00
Estate          Merit 1.7D Turbo                2,671           11895.00

5 door h/b      LS 1.7D Turbo                   2,817           12295.00
Estate          LS 1.7D Turbo                   2,832           13045.00

5 door h/b      LS 1.7TDS                       2,986           13095.00
Estate          LS 1.7TDS                       2,995           13845.00

5 door h/b      GLS 1.6i 16v                    3,259           13345.00
Estate          GLS 1.6i 16v                    3,209           14095.00

5 door h/b      GLS 1.7TDS                      3,167           13595.00
Estate          GLS 1.7TDS                      3,170           14345.00

5 door h/b      CDX 1.6i 16v                    3,557           14895.00
Estate          CDX 1.6i 16v                    3,483           15645.00

5 door h/b      CDX 2.0i 16v                    3,842           16245.00
Estate          CDX 2.0i 16v                    3,795           16995.00

    Is the insurance cheaper on an estate ?
    
    I noticed this a while back and thought that the Sport hatchbacks
    would be more popular amongst the boy racer element (yes you know who
    you are :-) ) and therefore had more of an insurance loading than the
    estates.
    
    Royston

	Insurance may be the answer.  I guess that estates are less
	prone than hatches to theft by joy riders.

	Ian.

    Omega estates were (are?) cheaper than saloons. The reason suggested
    was higher residual value for big estate cars.
    
    FWIW
    
    Andrew

    re: .465
    
    The reason these cars have appeared for takeover is because of the
    demise of Learning Services.
    
    When we were transferred to Global Knowledge Network on 24 Feb we all
    had to give our Leaseplan (and other) cars back to Digital. Remember
    that the new company (If you knew anything about all this!) is an
    independent company from Digital so the cars stay with digital.
    
    We are all now looking for new company cars (ironically through
    Leaseplan).
    
    	Jon.

    I guess its too much like rocket science for leaseplan to transfer 
    the leases to the new company.
    
    Royston

    
    Dare I ask what the new car scheme is? Astra's all round?
    
    Richard

Re .472
�    I guess its too much like rocket science for leaseplan to transfer 
�    the leases to the new company.

	To be fair to Leaseplan, why should they they want to?  To them
	it's two seperate contracts, they still get the money on the old
	leases as well as the new business.

Re .473

�    Dare I ask what the new car scheme is? Astra's all round?

	Sounds like the current scheme - where did you hear there's 
	a new one?

	Ian.

    
    	Great scot!!!  Does this mean that the basic LS 1.6i 5 door h/b is
    more expensive than the <level 8 car allowance?  That used to be
    #2950.00 when I left, or has it gone up now?
    
    				Malcolm.

>    	Great scot!!!  Does this mean that the basic LS 1.6i 5 door h/b is
>    more expensive than the <level 8 car allowance?  That used to be
>    #2950.00 when I left, or has it gone up now?
    
dunno, but I'm still bemused that I managed to get an 18 grand Calibra on the 
car scheme for less money than a Peugeot 306 (which I'd originally asked for), 
quite a large difference, too...

Chris.

    In response to earlier notes about the scheme for Global Knowledge
    Network:
    Std supplement choices (all no cost, no upgrading to higher level),
    just a taster:
    Punto, various, to Sporting
    Fiesta, to Ghia & Si
    Civic
    Almera
    Pug 106
    Clio
    Rover 100/200
    Ibiza
    Corolloa 1.3
    Coarser, to Sport
    Astra
    Polo
    
    level 8-9
    zx, xantia, tempra, brava,escort,mondeo,more civics,pug 306,laguna,
    rover 400,frontera sport, vectra,more astras,golf,vento
    
    next level:
    bmw 316/318,citroen synergie,ford galaxy (i remember them racing at
    Crystal Palace!),more mondeos, mit galant and spacewagon,pug 406,rover
    600,more vectras,golf gti 16v,passat, volvo 440/460,chysler wrangler
    
    top level:
    audi a4, top xantias, maverick,top mondeos,discovery,shogun,terrano,pug
    806,espace,saab 900 / 9000, calibra,golf vr6,volvo 940
    
    The rules are: take a car from your list (plus options to a defined
    limit) or take the money.
    Cars are lower spec generally in comparison to the digital scheme, but
    a slightly wider choice!
    
    		Jon.

    
    Not bad then? Certainly there were cars in the Level 11 band that were
    beyond my supplement when quoted for recently. Mind you, guess you
    don't have an option to downgrade and take the money. Or do you?
    
    Richard

    No we can't downgrade (as I was doing and taking some cash)
    
    		Jon

    I just got my notification of what will go on my P11D from Lease Plan. 
    Both the dates and the list price were wrong.  When I rang up they said
    the list price was as supplied by Hertz, I said it wasn't, they checked
    their database, which had the correct list price.
    
    The guy (Richard Jenkins) also said that a lot were wrong and they are
    sending out a new batch next week.
    
    Just when I thought I'd escaped the stress of having a company car too
    :-(
    
    tmp

    
    You obviously didn't get the e-mail saying that the P11D info.
    which has been sent out was wrong, appently new ones will be issued
    soon !
    
    G

    >You obviously didn't get the e-mail saying that the P11D info.
    >which has been sent out was wrong, appently new ones will be issued
    >soon !
    
    No I didn't, but I have now (thanks Ian).  I'm not on the distribution
    list.  Maybe it was only sent to people that have company cars.
    
    tmp

    
    I too got the P11D info which was dramatically wrong! All dates
    conflicted and none were right... I never received the mail explaining 
    that it was wrong either - I think you are right Trevor, I think it
    must have only gone to those still in the scheme.
    
    Sharon
    

    Has anyone seen any sign of Alfa Romeo GTV Leasing Costs?
    
    Quite a while until I change cars - but I have a 'need to know'!
    
    MRC

	Hello folks,
		    Are there any current spreadsheets kicking around to work 
	out the real cost of a lease car?

	I've tried to access the ones refered to in .11 and .12, seems they're 
	not there anymore.....

R.

    If you can view the Vauxhall homepage, they have a company car tax
    calculator.
    
    HTH,
    
    Chris

>    If you can view the Vauxhall homepage, they have a company car tax
>    calculator.
    
 	THanks Chris, you couldn't tell me where this is and how I might 
	get at it via ACB, pretty please?
R.

    The Vauxhall page is on
    
    http://www.vauxhall.co.uk/  (The top right hand corner of the page
    gives a TAX Calculator).
    
    http://www.vauxhall.co.uk/vectra-cgi/taxguide. 
    
    I doubt you can get to this using ACB...
    
    
    
    Chris

cost to employee = basic car cost + lots * lots

    If ACB connects to ALL-IN-1, goto the IM menu and take the WWW option,
    then from within Lynx, access the vauxhall URL.
    
    No piccies (or TrafficMaster maps), but text should be there!
    
    mb

    Hi all
    
    Just an enquiry into prices on subaru imprezza,
    
    The turbo 4x4 and 2.0l
    
    also what does the saab 900 come in at at the moment.
    
    Does anyone have the math formulae for working out "damage to pocket
    per month" for scheme cars.
    
    thanks in advance,
    
    derek.
    

    
    Ian, your SSSAYONG MUSSO (sp??) things are those "made in Korea,
    powered by Mercedes" 4x4s I think... and if I'm right, they're
    the only 4x4s which look more ugly than a Merc GeoWaggon.
    
    Graham

        Thanks - I'd never heard of them, I'll keep my eyes open.
        
        Ian

    Omegas are available as a diesel automatic, on paper they look good if
    you want a diesel.
    
    Andrew

    RE: SSANGYONG MUSSO
    
    You're right , it's a Korean made, British Styled, German powerplant
    (Mercedes Diesel, normally aspirated) and judging by the lease prices,
    it depreciates like other Far Eastern made cars, List prices start
    around 16K.
    
    IMO: Frontera or Discovery is a far better bet on the scheme.
    
    Chris.
    

           <<< COSME3::DISK$OA_APP1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]CARS_UK.NOTE;1 >>>
                              -< Cars in the UK >-
================================================================================
Note 2290.136           Quotes Only (pls discuss in 2288)             136 of 136
CHEFS::HANCOCK_M "Use what you (used to) sell"        5 lines  28-MAR-1996 12:09
                                  -< 2288.L >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    re .last...
    You can get an Omega 2.5TD Auto,a friend of mine has one...
    
    					Mick
    

    re -2,
    
    Having had an Omega deisel manual for a trial weekend I would highly
    recommend the automatic. See 'Omega' topic for comments.
    
    Judging from the BMW 525td automatic which has a similar (different
    tuning) engine my thoughts on the need to have this engine with an auto
    box are supported.
    
    Peter
    

        Obviously things have changed a bit in the last three years.
        The last time I looked the only diesel automatic on the market
        was the London taxi.
        
        Ian.

    
    re .last
    
    Although 6300 is a lot of money it's a thousand less than I was quoted
    a few months ago. Also, I think it's a bit unfair to compare the E200
    with a 190.  The C180 Classic which is the replacement for the 190 is 
    less than 5000 on the scheme. Still expensive... but so are Mercs.
    The price increases are a direct result of Digital changing the
    lease terms from 30 mths/30000 to 36mths/60000.
    
    My advice for what it's worth is "find the money". I moved from an E220
    to a Vectra. Not nice.
    
    Richard.

    Hi,
    
    Please can someone who has access, get the latest quotes for Honda's
    from the LPDIRECT system, with accessories if possible. Thanks in
    anticipation...
    
    Regards
    
    Paul

    
�    Please can someone who has access, get the latest quotes for Honda's
�    from the LPDIRECT system, with accessories if possible. Thanks in
�    anticipation...
        
        Now in 2290.139, with ACCORD options. 
        
        I.

    re 2290.140
    
    > <   > Ice Scraper with rubber bung         2.00        .05        .60
    
    I've noticed that an ice scraper (with 'rubber bung' no less) is
    offered for a yearly lease cost of 60 pence on all cars in LP direct.
    
    I would have thought it would cost more than 60p in admin costs to
    process this. Why don't they really push the boat out and say "hey!
    have an ice scaper with a rubber bung thingy on the house, with our
    compliments, gratis..."
    
    Royston

    Hi,
    
    Not being a lover of Frontera's, I'm trying to get a flavour of prices
    on the scheme for other 4x4's. Can someone with access to the LPDIRECT
    system get a breakdown on the following makes:-
    
    Mitsubishi Shogun
    Jeep Cherokee
    Daihatsu Fourtrak
    Isuzu Trooper (this could be interesting in comparison to a Monterey)
    
    No hurry.
    
    Thanks in advance
    Chris.

        Re .503
        
�    Mitsubishi Shogun       
        See 2290.143
        
�    Jeep Cherokee
        There are no Jeep quotes in LPDIRECT
        
�    Daihatsu Fourtrak
        2290.144
        
�    Isuzu Trooper (this could be interesting in comparison to a Monterey)
        2290.145
        
        Ian.

    Thanks Ian,
    
    The Isuzu, looks like a good bet for anybody considering a Monterey
    after all they are essentially the same car.
    
    Jeep I guess could be under Chrysler.
    
    Rgds
    Chris

�Jeep I guess could be under Chrysler.

	Of course! Didn't think of that. See 2290.146

	Ian.

    Hmmm, an interesting point. I didn't realise that you could get a
    factory fitted tow bar.
    
    What does surprise is how expensive the Vauxhall tow bars are.
    Especially as they are the 'preferred cars'. 
    
    Even with single elecrics on a Corsa costs 87.00 a year, whereas the same
    thing on my new Punto costs 43.00 a year. Just under half the cost !
    
    If I was getting a tow bar for a Vauxhall I'd get a Witter fitted
    after I took delivery of the car. Visual repeater or not !
    
    Royston

    In view of the Mods entry about notes and their contents, I have
    taken the decision to delete reply .507.
    
    Fleet have been helpful so far, and I would hate someone to 
    misunderstand my note and the reasons for entering it.
    
    Once the guidelines are known, then I will, with the mods approval
    replace the note.
    
    Judy

    Judy
    
    Thanks for your consideration. Personally I couldn't see anything wrong
    with your reply but respect your decision to remove it in case 
    it is misunderstood.
    
    Please keep up us updated on the tow bar situation.
    
    Royston

Hi,
    
    Please can someone who has access, get the latest quotes for Fiat Bravo
    and Brava from the LPDIRECT system, with accessories (esp air con) if 
    possible. Thanks in anticipation...
    
Regards
John

        An updated full list of FIAT's is now in 2290.148.
        Air con is not listed as an option.

it's a nuisance that a person has to be eligable for car renewal to browse 
LeasePlan's system...

Chris.

    Air con is an option on the Fiat Bravo and Brava - I had it fitted to
    my Bravo 1.8HLX - it costs �800.00 list although what that would add to
    the lease cost I dont know !!
    
    Just my two penneth
    
    Richard Barrett
    

    It is probably in here somewhere - but I can't find it.
    
    Just how *DO* you get into LPDIRECT when you are eligable?
    
    Jc

>    It is probably in here somewhere - but I can't find it.
>    
>    Just how *DO* you get into LPDIRECT when you are eligable?
    
you'll need access to some sort of 3270 emulation, typically tn3270 from DCL 
on VMS, or x3270 for X11 on Unix.  Assuming tn3270, you connect to it with the 
command `tn3270 lplan.reo 2301' (actually, the same syntax applies for x3270).

If you don't know about 3270 terminals (one of IBM's series of `intelligent' 
terminals for connecting to their mainframes, historically at least), they're 
`form' based terminals, in that you have to fill in the input fields, then 
submit the form to the controller.  You move around fields using the TAB key 
(or the cursor keys, if you know where the fields are), and submit the 
completed form with an enter key, typically DO or the ENTER key on the keypad.
The function keys, and various other control keys, map onto an LK keyboard 
rather strangely, and rather than summarise them here, you may want to check 
up on the documentation!  (Apologies if you already know all this, but for 
anyone not used to IBM kit, it's not at all obvious - you'll really need to 
know about the `reset' key, as the terminal will lock up with the slightest 
excuse, like trying to type in a protected area.  I think that pressing the 
HELP key brings up a keymap, if I remember correctly)

Next, you logon (as opposed to login! :) with the username DIGITAL and the 
password LPDIRECT.  From there, just follow the instructions... once you get 
the hang of it, it should be fairly straightforward.

Chris.

    Thanks - makes you realise that VTX isn't so bad after all!
    
    Jc
    

    
    HHmmmm in another note recently I mentioned a Volvo I had seen that
    looked like a 850 touring car.
    
    well, for all you budding highway company car touring types then now
    appears to be a Vauhall Vectra limited edition SRi decked out in
    touring type car colours !!  Also avaliable soon will be a ford mondeo
    and ANother (carn't remember) as well as the Volvo and BMW varients
    currently avaliable.  Got this info from Top Gear mag issued this week.
    
    Cost of SRi is approx 20K with uprated springs and things and a V6
    version may also be produced.  Get your quotes in now ?!?!!?
    
    - MARK -
    

    re 2288.518
    
    Apparantley (sp?) Vauxhall are also planning a model referred to as the
    Vectra Super Touring. 500 will be made with a 200BHP 2.0 litre engine
    it is expected to cost between �25-26,000. The engines will be prepared
    by Swindon Race Engines who do the BTCC engines. The whole car is under
    development at Ray Mallock Racing. This model will be distinguishable
    from the model mentioned previously by its name :-
    
    2.0 136bhp - Supertouring
    2.0 200bhp - Super Touring
    
    Well done Vauxhall for making it so clear.
    
    Because of the limited edition I'd get your quotes soon.
    
    Richard Barrett
    
    info taken from Autocar magazine 24/04/96
    

Could some kind person please post Audi A4 and A6 quotes?

Thanks Stu

    >> Could some kind person please post Audi A4 and A6 quotes?
    
    See 2290.113

         To:	   All employees 
         From:	   Alan Evans - HR Manager, UK & Ireland 
         
         _____________________________________________________________
         
         Introduction
         ~~~~~~~~~~~~
         Every year the car supplement for each level is reviewed, 
         comparing Digital's company car scheme with those operated by 
         other companies.
         
         The review enables us to identify a "benchmark" car for each 
         level.  The car supplement is determined by the cost of these 
         benchmark cars to the employee (the Driver Price). 
         
         Benchmark cars
         ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
         As before, we have based our review on cars from the Vauxhall 
         range.  The cars used as our benchmark in calculating each 
         level of supplement were selected in line with competitive 
         market practice.  The benchmark cars are listed below 
         together with their Driver Price.
         
         LEVEL	 BENCHMARK FY96	  DRIVER PRICE	 BENCHMARK FY97	 DRIVER PRICE
         	 		     		 		    	     
         1-7	 Cavalier 1.6 LS     �2,929	 Vectra 1.6 LS	    �2,939
         8-9	 Cavalier 2.0 GLS    �3,462	 Vectra 2.0 GLS	    �3,560
         10-11	 Omega 2.0 GLS	     �4,297	 Omega 2.0 GLS	    �4,442
         12+	 Omega 2.0 CD	     �4,778	 Omega 2.0 CD	    �4,819
         
         FY97 Supplements
         ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
         Although the Driver Price of the benchmark cars has increased 
         slightly, they do not exceed the current levels of car 
         supplement.  We have therefore decided that there will be no 
         increase to the existing car supplements in FY97.  The 
         supplements for FY96 and FY97 are shown below.
         
         LEVEL	   CAR SUPPLEMENT FY96 & FY97
         
         1-7	           �2,950
         8-9	           �3,560
         10-11	           �4,460
         12+	           �4,940
         
         Factors influencing Driver Prices
         ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
         Although the price of new cars has increased in the past 
         year, we have managed to keep costs down through a number of 
         factors.
         
         First and foremost is the fact that we continue to receive 
         good discounts from Vauxhall on both new cars and parts.  We 
         have also been successful in controlling our maintenance and 
         administrative costs.  This, together with low interest 
         charges, has enabled us to contain the prices.
         
         However, there is one area which may bring about a marked 
         increase in the cost of some new leases, namely the insurance 
         element included in the Driver Price.  We have decided to 
         restructure the insurance rates for FY97 so that higher-risk 
         cars will be priced to include an insurance premium that more 
         accurately reflects the market rate for the car.  This will 
         also allow us to decrease the cost of the insurance element 
         for some lower-risk cars.  We believe this is a fairer way of 
         allocating insurance costs, as drivers of lower-risk cars 
         will no longer be subsidising those who choose to drive 
         higher-risk cars.  A full list of the current and new 
         insurance elements is shown below. 
         
         INSURANCE GROUP      INSURANCE FY96	  INSURANCE FY97  
         
                1	      	    �300	        �150
                2	      	    �300	        �175
                3	      	    �300	        �200
                4	      	    �300	        �225
                5	      	    �300	        �250
                6	      	    �300	        �275
                7	      	    �300	        �300
                8	      	    �300	        �300
                9	      	    �400	        �400
               10	      	    �400	        �450
               11	      	    �500	        �500
               12	      	    �500	        �500
               13	      	    �600	        �600
               14	      	    �700	        �900
               15	      	    �800	       �1000
               16	      	    �900	       �1250
               17	      	   �1000	       �1500
               18	      	   �1000	       �1750
               19	      	   �1000	       �2000
               20	      	   �1000	       �2250
         
         Implementation of FY97 plans
         ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
         All the changes described above will come into effect on 1st 
         July 1996.  The new Driver Prices for the Vauxhall range will 
         be available on VTX on 1st July.  Orders received and 
         processed before 1st July will be at the FY96 rates.  Orders 
         received on or after 1st July will be processed at FY97 
         rates.
         
         Should you have any questions about the car supplements and 
         charges for FY97, please contact Pat Axford @REO.
         
         Regards,
         Alan
         

Distribution:
TO:
MARK COOK@LZO                           PAUL CARTER@LZO
STUART BARBER@LZO                       TONY MOSS@LZO
NEALE BURROWS@LZO                       CLIVE DARRINGTON@LZO
TOM MCALLISTER@LZO                      BRIAN KNIGHT@LZO
ROBERT RIGBY@LZO                        GREG HILTON@LZO
JULIE SUNDERLAND@LZO                    TERRY FORRESTER@LZO
MARK A'BEAR@LZO                         TRACEY BRILL@LZO
ALAN HOMAR@LZO                          DAVE HAYTHORNE@LZO
JOHN STRONG@LZO                         NORMAN LONGDEN@LZO
COLIN JOLLEYS@LZO                       BARRY WELLS@LZO
JOHN SCOTT@LZO                          ANDREW DODD@LZO
ANDY MCCORMICK@LZO                      PETER MOORE@LZO
JILL AVEYARD@LZO                        MICHAEL EDSON@LZO
JOANNE MUNRO@LZO                        EDDIE CANALE@LZO
ANDY CARTWRIGHT@LZO                     JANE LYNCH@LZO
IAN THOMPSON@LZO                        JOHN KAMSIKA@LZO
DAVID NIELD@LZO                         JAMES MASON@LZO
PAUL SMITH@LZO                          STEPHEN COSTIGAN@LZO
KEVAN JONES@LZO                         PETER MILLINGTON@LZO
PETER WADE@LZO                          MARCIA SMITH@LZO
RODNEY JOWETT@LZO                       PETER GRAYSHON@LZO
GRAHAM FLANAGAN@LZO                     DAVID BEAGLE@LZO
KEVIN MORLEY@LZO                        GEORGE INGRAM@LZO
ANDREW LANGAN@LZO                       JENNIFER BURTON@LZO
RAYMOND GALL@LZO                        PAUL STEPHENSON@LZO

    As an aside, I have just received my insuarance renewal for my car (BMW
    328 Sports - group 18 I think) for 640'ish pounds. This is with
    protected no claims(1), full legal cover, windscreen etc. The car is 8
    months old.
    
    I know that company insurance is more expensive but 1750 .v. 640 looks
    a bit steep to me.
                                                                   
    Also, anyone considering a new car has a whole day (today) to get their
    car approved as the new prices take effect from Monday. I'm sure plenty
    of people will be stopping doing their important Q4 work and will be
    down the local car showroom this lunchtime - I know I would be.
    
    Rik
    
    
    1) With one claim last year for a new set of wheels - stolen from
    DECpark.

    
    What about No Claims Bonus? I assume the company figures are averaged
    out over various ages, sex, ncb etc.
    
    Richard

    
    I think the insurance increases are grossly unfair and unrepresentative
    of the current market. 
    
    Why should an 18 year old and a 50 year old pay the same premium?
    
    Richard.

    
    ..because the car isn't insured for an individual, but for any employee
    or anyone who any employee gives permission to. Basically the same sort
    of risk as having your car insured for any driver with the additional
    risk that it's being used for Business.
    
    G.

    
    re .526
    
    No. In the real world the cost of an any driver policy is based on 
    the risk for me to drive the car + approx 15%. My age and driving
    record matters.
    
    The fact that Digital decides that the car that I am paying for can be 
    driven by any driver of any age should not result in a surcharge to me.
    
    Richard.
    

    Are the latest non-Vauxhall prices someone posted from Leaseplan valid
    for the whole year, or do they change?
    

    They changed last year (upwards).
    
    Graham

    In fact,  they changed upward several times during the year!
    
    Jc
    
    

    Dear all
    
    Has anyone had a price for the V6 SRI Vectra recently.
    
    Regards
    
    Dean
    
    

Your refering to the Vectra Super Touring I assume? ....I heard there was to be 
a 200bhp version of the current 'one-off, all white' SRi 2.0L 'skirted-Vectra' -
designated 'Super Touring', thats supposed to have the V6 power unit (only
tweeked slightly from its standard 170bhp).  That'll be the Mega-Super-Touring
eh!

At last a Vauxhall with some go.....


Prices anyone ????

(not that I'm desperate you understand, your average Mondeo is probably still
more fun that an Vectra ever could be!)

Bjb  ;)

    
    Thanks for the reply but no, the Vectra Sri 2.5 V6 is available for
    order at the local dealer and is detailed in this months CAR magazine.
    
    Should be a quick car.
    
    Regards
    
    Dean
    

    Alternatively, see note 2352.134   
    
    Regards; Phil.

    Company Car Scheme - Changes to Servicing Agents.
    
    Anyone seen the new servicing item under Car Fleet ?
    
    New Scheme detailed below :-
    
    As part of the ongoing process to improve customer service and to
    contain lease costs, Lease Plan have negotiated favourable terms
    with a network of preferred servicing agents to complement Digital's
    office locations in the UK.
    
    The preferred servicing agents and levels of service detailed
    below apply for vehicles supplied by the following manufacturers:-
    
    Citroen, Fiat, Ford, Hyundai, Nissan, Peugeot, Renault, Rover,
    Seat,Vauxhall,Volkswagen, Honda, Mazda and Toyota.
    
    For any vehicles supplied by other manufacturers, drivers should
    continue to contact Lease Plan on 7830 8066 (01753 797224) for
    details of the most suitable servicing agent in their area.
    
    The preferred servicing agents have agreed to provide the
    following minimum level of service to Digital drivers.
    
    Priority Booking Service
    
    The servicing agent will operate a priority booking-in facility
    and guarantee any bookings made by Digital drivers for service and
    repairs as long as three (3) days advance notice is given. Safety
    related queries (e.g. braking or steering) will receive immediate
    attention.
    
    
    Collection & Delivery
    
    The servicing agents will provide a free collection and delivery
    service. The servicing agents need to be able to plan this service
    and therefore require a minimum of three (3) working days notice
    to be able to accommodate your requirements on collection and
    delivery.
    
    All vehicles will be collected before 11am and returned by 5pm
    unless otherwise agreed with the driver.
    
    If you do not need a vehicle whilst your car is being serviced we
    strongly recommend the use of this facility.
    
    Loan Cars
    
    A suitable courtesy car will be made available, free of charge, by
    the servicing agent, provided that a minimum of seven (7) working
    days notice is given and that this is specifcally requested by the
    driver at the time of booking.
    
    This is a major area of potential cost saving for Digital. We
    strongly urge you to make use of the collection and delivery or loan
    car facility wherever possible.
    
    In view of the two facilities offered above, the use of daily
    rental vehicles whilst mechanical repairs and servicing work is being
    carried out should only should only be made in an emergency or
    under extreme circumstances.
    
    Warranty Work
    
    The servicing agent will ensure that all warranty work is carried
    out to the manufacturers specification using manufacturer's original
    parts and oils whilst making certain that manufacturer's
    warranties and any out of warranty contributions are maintained. The
    servicing agent will also take all necessary action to gain benefit from
    such and any out of warranty contributions are maintained. The
    servicing agent will also take all necessary action to gain benefit from
    such as manufacturer warranties, free service offers, high mileage
    services and maximum claims under manufacturers out of warranty
    contributions.
    
    Please find below details and locations of preferred servicing
    agents :-
    
    DIGITAL            PREFERRED SERVICING
    LOCATION                 AGENT
    
         Reading            DA Fleet Services
                            Unit 9, Marino Way
                            Hogwood Lane Ind Est
                            Finchampstead
                            Berkshire
                            RG40 4RF
    
                            Tel:    01754 730800
                            Contact:David Connor
    
         Leatherhead        AA Workshop
                            20 Vickers Drive North
                            Brooklands Ind Park
                            Weybridge
                            Surrey
                            KT13 0YU
    
                            Tel:    01932 336076
                            Contact:Peter Andrews
    
         Basingstoke        Ralph Motors
                            Viables Lane
                            Basingstoke
                            Hampshire
                            RG22 4BU
    
                            Tel:    01256 22344
                            Contact:Ralph Goodman
    
         Leeds              Apples Car Clinic
                            58 Burley Road
                            Leeds
                            58 Burley Road
                            Leeds
                            West Yorkshire
                            LS3 1JX
    
                            Tel:    01132 446332
                            Contact:Peter Ingleby
    
         Birmingham         Apples Car Clinic
                            111 Westly Road
                            Acocks Green
                            Birmingham
                            West Midlands
                            B27 7UW
    
                            Tel:    0121 707 3466
                            Contact:Steve Ellson
    
         Warrington         Apples Car Clinic
                            Hawleys Lane
                            Warrington
                            Cheshire
                            WA2 8JJ
    
                            Tel:    01925 240520
                            Contact:Fred Turner
    
         Colchester         Cowies of Colchester
                            Scotts Corner
                            Ipswich Road
                            Colchester
                            Essex
                            CO4 4HS
    
                            Tel:    01206 844422
                            Contact:Richard Clayton
    
         Gateshead          AA Workshop
                            Team Valley Trading Estate
                            Armstrong Road
                            Earlsway
                            Gateshead
                            Tyne and Wear
                            NE11 0RQ
    
                            Tel:    0191 482 3430
                            Contact:Geoff Hope
    
         Fareham            AA Workshop
                            Andes Road
                            Nursling
                            Southampton
                            Hampshire
                            SO1 9YZ
    
                            Tel:    01703 733373
    
                            Tel:    01703 733373
                            Contact:Phil Orchard
    
         Bristol            AA Workshop
                            Fourth Way
                            Avonmouth
                            Bristol
                            Avon
                            BS11 8DL
    
                            Tel:    01179 822396
                            Contact:Martin Husk
    
         Belfast            AA Workshop
                            West Bank Drive
                            Dargan Road Harbour Estate
                            Belfast
                            BT3 9LA
    
    
    Any comments ?
    
    
    Mark
    
    

    As I've never heard of Apples Car Clinic, I'll have to reserve
    judgement.
    
    As these are "preferred" I wonder if we can ignore it?
    
    Andrew

    .535
    
    I live at Dunstable (someone has to) which is near to the old WLO
    location.  So my nearest is either Birmingham or Colchester.  I'm sure
    they'll love the free collection and delivery!
    
    And has no one told the Digital end of the LeasePlan relationship of
    the office closures with the growing number of people who are NOT
    office based?  I wonder how that would affect the choice of service
    agents?
    
    Nick

    re .537,
    
    My car is in for its (last) service in Ralphs at the moment.  I'll ask
    them if they plan to collect my next one from my home address for its
    first service.  I'll have to leave them the map - how much extra will
    the 90 minute round trip cost for the service?  I'm sure that Digital
    will pick this up eventually.
    
    Jc
    

    I just checked with Ralphs about this and they do offer all the
    services that are specified.
    
    They will collect and deliver the vehicle. They do this for people who
    work at DEC park. So a reasonable distance seems no object.
    
    They will supply a courtesy car at their expense (this does not get
    passed to Digital or Leaseplan) although the lady I spoke to wasn't
    sure if it was it was covered by their insurance or Digitals. Worth
    checking to ensure the car is covered for business use. They need 7
    days notice to arrange this.
    
    Royston

    I don't think I've ever had a courtesy car, or collection/delivery for
    a routine service. The Vauxhall main dealer is within 5 minutes walk of
    the Leeds office. Someone is paying for "Apples Car Clinic" to offer
    this service.
    
    You know it makes sense.
    
    Andrew

    I have just come back from Ralphs (Basingstoke).  Barry says the deal
    with Leaseplan is a 10 mile radius and yes,  sometimes they strech it
    as far as Decpark.
    
    Jc
    
    

    Anybody notice the lack of agents in Scotland??
    
    As Aberdeen is my office and I live in Inverness there is no real
    problem-------  warrington is about the same distance from both !!
    
    
    
    adrian   =:-}
    

    >Anybody notice the lack of agents in Scotland??
    
    Everyone should note that these garages are 'preferred'.
    
    In my view it changes nothing as we can (at present) use any garage
    that is a leaseplan agent.
    
    There is as far as I can see no insentive for us to use these garages
    apart from knowing that we are saving LP some money that will hopefully
    be passed back to Digital by means of cheaper lease costs.
    
    Royston

   Clip from VTX...
    
   > In view of the two facilities offered above, the use of daily
   > rental vehicles whilst mechanical repairs and servicing work is
   > being carried out should only should only be made in an emergency or
   > under extreme circumstances.
    
    
    As you have to phone leaseplan to order a rental car while yours is in
    for a service,  I would expect the answer to be "ask the garage to do
    it for free - as per (this) vtx page.
    
    Jc
    

    Has the Audi A3 appeared on Leasplan price list yet?

    Wot's the difference between a:
    
    GOLF 3DR 97 2.0 GTI 16V, which costs 4,813.56
    
    and a
    
    GOLF 3DR 97 2.0 GTI 16V S/R, which costs 4,922.16
    
    
    These both appear in the Leaseplan list someone posted in 2290.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Greg
    
    
    And the first person to say �108.60 owes me a beer!

    s/r = sun roof ?
    
    Nah, couldn't be that obvious.
    
    :)
    
    Jonathan

        The list of quotes in 2290.152 from January is now completely
        out of date. Most prices have increased by around �100-�200.
        
        I've now extracted a completely new set, and put them on 
        
        	 http://www.uvo.dec.com/~iw/quotes.html
        
        As well as the revised prices, there are quite a few new models.
        
        The WEB interface is a much more useful way of displaying this
        data so unless anyone particularly wants it, I won't bother
        duplicating the info in here. 
        
        ~Ian.

    Thanks Ian from all of us for all the work you've done setting this up.
    
    Royston

    Thanks for providing this info.  Is there a possibility that the price
    of options could be added eg. Air Con ?

.561>    Thanks Ian from all of us for all the work you've done setting this up.
    
	I'm not worthy of your praise! It really didn't take much to
	write a script to insert HTML tags into the original data. I've
	refined my procedure a bit since then, and the whole the thing 
	is fairly automatic now.

.562>    Thanks for providing this info.  Is there a possibility that the price
.562>    of options could be added eg. Air Con ?

	I thought about that, and I would like to do it. However it would
	require a lot more effort and I don't have the free time currently.
	
	~Ian.

	(Ironically replacing the current gateway software with Microsoft's 
	SNA server would be a lot less work, and would give full WEB access
	to the LPDIRECT system - but I guess that would be too easy).