Conference terri::cars_uk

What's the current conversion rate for US $?

Dave

Not sure of the current FF exchange rate with anything, but it used to
hover around FF10 = 1 pound, and the US$ to Pound xchange rate is about 1.56
today.  So as a rough cut FF5500=$860.

Plus the air-fare :-)
Martin

    
    
    The current exchange rate is ff5.2 = $1.00 so the drive would cost
    around $1057. assuming the rate doesn't drop any further. You can 
    get RT air to Paris for about $350.-$390. 
    
    
    -mike
    
    

    Patrick,
    
    >>The AGS team, based at LE LUC EN PROVENCE circuit near TOULON, FRANCE
    
    What happened to the name of "Circuit Paul Ricard"?
    
    Is the entrance free for those that come along and just watch as it
    could be a nice day out with the wife and kids?
    
    You say that the 19th July session is sold out - out of interest how
    many slots are there for each session?
    
    Anyone got FF5500 spare? :-(
    
    Dave

    > Should we organize a DEC F1 day ?
    
    It would be rather rude not to !
    
    How about 5 Sep. The Bol d'Or must be round about then.
    
    Rob

    .4�    >>The AGS team, based at LE LUC EN PROVENCE circuit near TOULON, FRANCE
    .4�    
    .4�    What happened to the name of "Circuit Paul Ricard"?
    
    The Circuit Paul Ricard is another circuit (bigger one) located near
    MARSEILLE. Le Luc is a smaller place than Paul Ricard. It is located
    50km east of Paul Ricard, about halfway between MARSEILLE and VALBONNE.
    Le Luc used to be a small (club) circuit. When AGS got into F1 the
    local authorities invested some money into resurfacing the track,
    making some arrangements (gravel traps, etc) and offering space for the
    AGS factory + some leisure activities.
    
    When AGS retired from F1, following Mr De Rouvre's retirement (when he
    decided to invest into Ligier), the circuit was there with the AGS
    factory. The circuit is available for all sorts of testing activities
    and is not restricted to F1. Many drivers (rally, hillclimbs, ...) find 
    it very suitable for setting up their machines. 
    
    .4�    Is the entrance free for those that come along and just watch as it
    
    Entrance is definitely free.
    
    .4�    could be a nice day out with the wife and kids?
    
    Apart from the circuit there is little to do. I think there is a bar
    and a minigolf. The nearest town is something like 8km down the road.
    The seaside (St Tropez) is some 40km south of the circuit (count 1
    hour because of the twisty little roads, unles you practice rally
    driving ...).
    
    .4�    You say that the 19th July session is sold out - out of interest how
    .4�    many slots are there for each session?
    
    Don't know but can easily find out. Other possibility is to book a
    whole day for 10 DECcies. Would you be interested ?
    
    .4�    Anyone got FF5500 spare? :-(
    
    As already indicated above FF5500 translates to approximately 1KUS$ and
    700UKpounds or 1300Sfr (don't have belgian francs, italian lire,
    deutsch marks, ... rate handy).

    I have just been reminded that the 5th Sept is a no-no, as is the 20th
    Aug :-(.
    
    Any chance of planning something for next year ?
    
    Rob

    RE: .7
    
    >>The Circuit Paul Ricard is another circuit (bigger one) located near
    >>MARSEILLE. Le Luc is a smaller place than Paul Ricard. It is located
    >>50km east of Paul Ricard, about halfway between MARSEILLE and VALBONNE.
    
    Now that you come to mention it I did see another circuit marked on the
    map when we were looking at taking a drive around the wine growing area
    a couple of weeks back.
    
    
    >>Apart from the circuit there is little to do. I think there is a bar
    >>and a minigolf. The nearest town is something like 8km down the road.
    >>The seaside (St Tropez) is some 40km south of the circuit (count 1
    >>hour because of the twisty little roads, unles you practice rally
    >>driving ...).
    
    No problems concerning the other facilities basically we would take a
    picnic with us and stay around for a couple of hours to watch a few
    cars and then go onto other places for some wine testing :-) 
    
    
    >>Don't know but can easily find out. Other possibility is to book a
    >>whole day for 10 DECcies. Would you be interested ?
    
    Don't worry it was just a casual question. If we had the money spare
    even my wife say do it. What with a few major bills coming up over the
    next 3 months I think I'll have to skip it this year :-(
    
    Dave

    Well as long as it doesn't rain again tomorrow were going down for a
    couple of hours to have a look around and watch a few folks having a
    go. 

	Re .0

	Patrick,

	Have you got any contact details for this - where did you find out
	about it?

	Rob

    .11�	Have you got any contact details for this - where did you find out
    .11�	about it?
    
    2 things: I visited AGS and they have started an advertising campaign
    in a number of (french) car mags.
    
    Contact: 	AGS F1
    		ZA Circuit du Var
    		F 83590 Gonfaron
    
    Tel:	+33 94609700
    
    I'll spend some time there next week. Do you need anything ? For the
    present time I've only got their price list (in french and FF). You can
    obviously choose to do more than 3 laps in a AGS F1 but the prices go
    up steep !

    Well we went to have a look - for those who are thinking about going
    down to the cicuit it took under 30 minutes from Cannes to the Le Luc
    exit and then it's about another 5 minutes after this on the D33. 
    
    The F1 cars that they used yesterday had race certificates from the 
    Hungarian GP 1989 and Spanish GP 1991. The Spanish GP car had the
    drivers name of Tarquini on the side.
    
    First car went out - no problems. Concerning the second car the first
    driver out in it managed to land in a gravel trap on his first full
    lap (the circuit is not that big at all so a lap is pretty quick). They
    had to tow the car back to the factory to clean it out! Not sure about
    the state of the drivers overalls but I imagine he was glad that they
    were tight around the ankles :-) 
    
    We then went over to the factory and had a look around - shame we could
    only spend about 5 minutes there as we had to leave to come back here.
    
    For the kids (aged 3 and 5) we took them to a Turtle "village" which
    was only 10 minutes drive away. Basically you turn right out from the
    cicuit entrance and carry along the road until the D33/D75 junction
    where you turn right, direction Gonfaron. For the adults there is also
    some decent vineyards around where you can do some wine tasting and
    pick up some reasonable stuff in 10 litre containers (which we bottle
    at home). 

    RE: .12
    
    Patrick,
    
    >>I'll spend some time there next week. Do you need anything ? For the
    >>present time I've only got their price list (in french and FF). You can
    >>obviously choose to do more than 3 laps in a AGS F1 but the prices go
    >>up steep !
    
    Do you have anything planned while you are there...?
    
    I've got plenty of holiday days to use up :-) It's a shame Stuart B.
    will be giving a course here next week otherwise I could have dragged
    him along.
    
    Dave

    .14�    Do you have anything planned while you are there...?
    
    Not really other than ...
    
    .14�    I've got plenty of holiday days to use up :-) It's a shame Stuart B.
    
    ... attend the early piece of Stuart's course and then go to:
    
    - swimming pool
    - beach
    - Le Luc
    - ... ?
    
    Can we meet Monday at the SEAL course ?

Patrick,

Is this place the same as Le Luc airfield? 

Cheers,

Graham.

    .16�Is this place the same as Le Luc airfield? 
    
    No but it's not far. Draw a line between the airfield and the village
    called GONFARON. The circuit is on that line ... 3km (?) from the
    village. 
    
    By car, the fastest and easiest way to get there is to exit the
    autoroute (A8 Le Luc) and take the road to GONFARON (and CUERS and
    HYERES and TOULON). Before you get to GONFARON turn left on a small road
    marked to LES MAYONS. Right after you cross a brand new bridge over the
    autoroute (Le Luc - Toulon) take the road on the right thats follows the 
    autoroute for 500m and you're there.   

    Just called AGS/F1. The Aug 19 session is full. 
    
    Seats available for the Sep 5. I'm in. Anyone else ?

    Patrick,
    
    If you've got a video camera do you want me to pop along and film you -
    hopefully not taking a plunge into the gravel trap like a guy before.
    
    Dave

    .19�    If you've got a video camera do you want me to pop along and film you -
    
    Excellent idea Dave. With great pleasure !

Can we get one in the NA format or will the 8mm work on PAL and ours too?

Dave

Sept 5, 1994		AGS F1		Le Luc en Provence
----------------------------------------------------------

Agenda

08:00	The 10 registered participants are present. Friendly atmosphere.
Everyone deals with Maguy (the AGS secretary) to settle the bills. We 
all have a dedicated locker with racing overhaul, gloves, helmet, boots. 
Any size can be accomodated (check with Maguy when you register).

Briefing starts. We'll be handled by 2 experienced instructors: Jean-Louis
Pau and Henri Maire. Both were previously with ORECA (Paul Ricard) and 
have joined AGS a few months ago when the decision was made to run the 
F1 days.

Jean-Louis Pau reviews all the major aspects of single seater driving as
well as safety measures, etc ... He reviews the cars that we will be 
driving
		1. the GM Euroseries
		2. the F1

The 1st exercise (as usual) is to brake correctly, without using the 
engine and gearbox, at the right moment and with the right pressure.
Around 10:00 we move to the track.


The track

Le Luc is a 2.2km circuit. It has 2 major straights, a shorter one, 
1 esse, 1 double right hander, 1 fast curve and 2 hairpins. The AGS 
hairpin, near the AGS works is most interesting: it is situated at the 
end of the major straight and at the beginning of the other one, plus 
the braking section is mostly downhill, while acceleration is uphill. 
The double right isn't flat either and is definitely a place to take 
into account since it leads to the major straight.

This circuit is in very good condition. It is based on the older narrow 
track which was entirely rebuilt 5 or 6 years ago when AGS moved to 
their new factory. The circuit serving as a test bed. The factory is 
directly connected to the circuit by a short drop road. The track is
wide (F1 specs) and has no bumps. Gravel traps are installed at all
dangerous points, guardrails and type piles elsewhere. Safety is good.


The cars

The GM Euroseries (also called Opel-Lotus) are very close to F3's. They 
use a GM-Opel 2 litre, 16 valve, 4 cylinder producing 180+bhp. The cars 
weigh 450kg. For cost reasons the chassis is tubular with a plastic 
skin cover. At Le Luc they use Reynard gearboxes. In contrast F3's use
more expensive monocoque chassis (carbon/kevlar compound). The GM 
Euroseries are more forgiving than the very stiff and brutal F3s.


Braking exercise

Like in major racing schools, all drivers are required to go through 
the following series of actions:

	- drive at constant speed in 5th along the straight
	- at 1st cones, brake as hard as you can, without locking wheels
	- at 2nd cones, shift down to 4th, 3rd and 2nd
	- reaccelerate and go around the circuit

The main purpose of the exercise is to forget about 'engine braking'. 
To slow down all you have to do is press the brake pedal. Don't shift 
gears. This may not be too important with the GM Euroseries but it can
be a vital issue with the F1.

We are broken in 2 groups of 5 drivers. No more than 5 cars are present 
on the circuit. Reasonable separation is provided.

5 laps are completed. The 2 instructors voice their comments to the 5
drivers. Another series of 5 laps are completed. 2nd group of 5 drivers
get into the cars and does the same exercise. At this point one driver
decided that he was not interested in going any further. 


GM Euroseries

After all remaining drivers completed the braking exercise, we were told
that we passed the test. No major problem, some minor corrections to be
applied here and there.

Until lunch we were given 2 series of 10 laps in a row to go around the
circuit, 5 drivers at a time, and practice brakings, gearbox, turns, etc
The cones for the braking exercise were removed and replaced by the
standard 4 cones in most turns: braking area, turn point, apex, exit pt.

Very nice engine, very responsive. In my last series of laps I could 
easily go flat-out in the fast curve (in 5th) and play with the front
and back ends in the esse (in 4th) and in the double right (3rd). You can
generate some gentle under/oversteer with the throttle. Very nice car
for the beginner and for the amateur.

Minor problems: because of my slight overweight (25kg) I always have
some difficult times with the gear change and linkage. That caused me
to miss some gearchanges, up and down equally. Pity. 

I'll start a diet, tomorrow ...


Lunch

Was served under the pinetrees outside the factory. Very nice since the
weather was beautiful with mild temperatures. Typical light lunch for 
race drivers: no pastis, no ros�, no potatoes, no ice creams, ...


14:00

F1 briefings now. Instead of 5 gears we now have 6, instead of 180bhp we
now have 650 with only 55 additional kilos, ... interesting power to weight
ratio. The instructors asked us to apply what they told us during the
morning with a few changes: shifting gears down is forbidden if you have
not found the brake pedal first, brake very hard (the carbon brakes need
to reach an operating temp of 650 degrees C) or you won't get anything
from the brakes (pads and disks will only shine like mirrors), press the
throttle following the simple scheme:

	- press slightly = maintain speed (hairpins)
	- press more     = check traction (rear wheels spin ?)
	- flat-out       = about time to shift up ....

2 cars were allocated, designated 'Dalmas' and 'Streiff'. Only one F1
car at a time on the circuit.


AGS F1 cars

These are 1989 race chassis with recent Ford Cosworth DFR engines. AGS
also have 4 of the more recent chassis. The old ones have definitely much
wider cockpits than the recent versions. Since most of us, amateur F1
drivers, had some overweight (who, me ?) we could sit more comfortably in
the old cars (or is it less uncomfortably ?). The engines are similar to
the Mader DFRs. AGS have kept a few mechanics, who apart from assisting
us, rebuild the engines every 1000km in the AGS workshop. Such a rebuild
operation costs 150KFF just in Cosworth (Mader ?) parts.

Gearboxes are a mix of AGS casting with Hewland parts inside.

The cars have a short final drive well suited to the short Le Luc circuit.
Top speed is about 280kph at 11000rpm in 6th.


My 3 laps

The mechanics managed to squeeze me into 'Streiff'. I had no problem
reaching the 3 pedals, but my right hand was positioned OK for the
steering wheel but far too much forward for the gear lever. 

If you have ever been strapped tightly in a roller coaster or in a 
stunt plane then ... you know nothing about F1 strapping. I could
hardly breathe but the AGS mechanics insisted. Thinking back I'm sure
they were right. Anyway.

When ready, just switch the contacts on and make a sign. The guy behind
will get the pneumatic starter motor into action and ... WWAAOOO you 
have a real F1 engine running right behind your back. Instructor asks
you to get the revs by short pressions on the throttle. When temps are
OK go down to idle. Engage 2nd gear, get the revs up to about 6000rpm
and release the clutch gently. 

If you did the above you're now driving a F1. Press the throttle and
... you get a fantastic combination of acceleration and roar, but it
is so fast that you can hardly think ... but it's time to engage 3rd 
and 4th and 5th, lift ... and you get ... 1g braking action without 
touching the brakes.


Acceleration

is just fantastic. Believe me, the straights seem very short. The 
engine is both so flexible and so powerful that going from the AGS
hairpin in 2nd at around 6000rpm to the opposite end of the straight 
(2-3, 3-4, 4-5 at around 10500 rpm, brake and shift down into 4) 
takes just about 4 seconds. No time to look at the visitors in the
pits (where you there Dave ?).  


Braking

As indicated you have to brake hard. But then, you wonder why you 
braked so hard or so early. Total confidence.


Around the circuit

One the obvious differences between the F1 and the lower series is that
the F1 is much nicer and much easier to drive. OK, you go much faster
and you're not supposed to make major mistakes but the driving is so
much better: very precise, relaxing, gentle, EASY. And you get this
formidable impression that you can do exactly what you want the car to
do. My favorites: the double right in 3rd, exit, shift into 4th and 5th
and flat-out for the fast corner in the middle of the back straight 
(250kph). The car is very stable, no oversteer.


Too cramped

I could not shift into 6th and I had some gear selection problems a couple
of times. So I really need to start my diet ... tomorrow.


Summary

Definitely worth the FF 5500. I'll save some more FF and I'll be back.
Additional laps cost FF 750 + VAT (18.6%). Several drivers did 5 laps.
One guy did 15 laps (in 3 series of 5). Very quick yet easy to drive.

I did not race a F1 but I drove a F1

    re .22
    
    Your turn Dave. Tell us what it really looked like ...

Great report Patrick.  Wonder if they could install FIA cameras on the cars and
make some more money selling tapes of your laps?

Dave (the other one)

    .24�Great report Patrick.  Wonder if they could install FIA cameras on the cars and
    .24�make some more money selling tapes of your laps?
    
    I think this is something they are working on. 
    
    As far as 'service' is concerned their work is very pro : each 
    participant received a pack of Ros� wine (C�tes de Provence from a 
    local wine farm, I tested one bottle and it's good) with AGS F1 
    labels and they had a photographer take shots of us, we should 
    receive the pictures anytime. But you're right icar video would be
    invaluable ! 

    RE: .22 
    
    Well after a few nasty storms down this way the week before (up until
    Friday) it didn't look too good for the Monday session. During the
    weekend though the weather improved, out came a nice drying wind and
    come Monday morning it was just great.
    
    When we arrived the folks were being put through their paces in the "GM
    Euroseries" cars. We stayed around for a while and I took a few photos
    of Patrick doing his stuff then off to lunch down the road (4 course
    meal which included wine and coffee in a "truckers" cafe for FFR60 -
    this was certainly a good find by Mark B). Then it was into the AGS
    workshop to have a look around - this time I made sure I didn't run out
    of film - not like last time! We spent some time talking to one of the
    guys while they fiddled around with the 2 F1 cars getting them ready
    for the afternoon session. One of the guys said that some of the
    current F1 teams use this track from time to time because it's a lot
    cheaper than using the Paul Ricard circuit.
    
    The sound/feeling when they started the cars (we were standing only a
    couple of feet away from them) started the adrenalin flowing! The
    concrete base was "throbbing" when they revved them up. Mind you when
    they started one car the guy at the rear of the car with the pneumatic
    starter motor nearly ended up with an unplanned center parting in his
    hair because the guy on the throttle sent the revs sky high as the
    engine kicked into life. I don't know what happened to his eardrums but
    they must be a mess if that happens often!
    
    Anyway back off to the track again. It's amazing that they leave 2 F1
    cars sitting in the "pit" lane of the track pretty much unattended for
    about � hour before the drivers come out. As Patrick mentioned they
    have 2 F1 cars but only 1 is allowed out on the track at a time where
    as in the morning session they can have upto 6 "GM Euroseries" cars on
    the track. 
    
    Watching the cars going around the circuit and listening to the missed
    gear changes etc. is possible because the circuit isn't that big. And
    watching them shoot past on the "main" straight while on the "pit"
    wall, a matter of a couple of metres away from the car, is greatttt. Of
    course I took some more photos of Patrick getting sorted out in the car
    and while doing his laps.
    
    Anyway after Patrick had done his 3 laps and got his breath back we
    moved off to pick up our 20 litres of wine from a local vineyard.
    
    Basically from the Valbonne area you can go from door to track within
    40 minutes and what with the nice lunch and the fine weather it's a
    great day out for the family/kids.
    
    Dave
    
    [Patrick the photos should be ready tomorrow...]

    re>> noise upon starting an F1
    
    You think that's loud, try standing next to a funny car with open
    headers when they start THAT up! Ringing for the next half hour....
    
    (And try breathing when they switch the thing to run on alcohol, it
    eats so much surrounding air and replaces it with burnt gas, you
    physically find it hard to breathe!)
    
    Dan$draghead

    .26�    [Patrick the photos should be ready tomorrow...]
    
    Many thanks Dave. I look forward to it (especially to spot the
    differences between before and after ...). Don't forget to send the
    bill. 

    Minor (?) detail to bear in mind when discussing acceleration and
    braking distances:
    
    Weight to Power Ratio
    
    				Empty weight	Power	  W/P ratio 
    				    (kg)        (bhp)	 (kg per bhp)
    	-------------------------------------------------------------      
    	- city car		    900		 60	     15	
    	- family saloon		   1200		150	      8
    	- GM Euroseries		    450		180	      2.5
    	- AGS F1		    505		600	       .85
    
    This shows that a difference in payload has little influence on a
    family saloon but will make significant changes in driving a F1.
    
    The other thing to consider is the aerodynamic load vs speed. At
    whatever speed the family saloon will have an equal load on its
    suspension and wheels (or get slightly lighter load due to wing effect). 
    Whereas the racecars will end up with over a ton even at medium speeds.
    This definitely helps high speed braking (and cornering).

    I read somewhere that, although it's not official (ie. nobody's done it
    in an F1) an F1 car could drive along a ceiling at xxx mph upside down and 
    not fall off.
    

    Yeah, I heard it aswell Dan...
    
    ...it was quoted onlong the lines of:
    
     last years Williams Renault doing approx. 160mph could drive upside
    down because of the downforce it creates.
    
    ...I think you must have read it in one of Dan RRs Mags last year,
    because that's where I remember reading it!

Doesn't M-B have a test track with banking that bends past vertical?

Dave

    .30�    in an F1) an F1 car could drive along a ceiling at xxx mph upside down and 
    
    Jean-Louis Pau, the AGS F1 instructor told us that their cars were set to
    produce about 2 tons of downforce at 280kph. That probably explains why
    we see cars stay of the track when they race at Adelaide ...