Conference terri::cars_uk

    re: 1678.0 �I have tried various "dir/tit=" etc.
    
    Have you ?
    
    Notes> dir/tit="new bmw"
    
    >  769   SHIRE::GOLDBLATT    20-SEP-1989    36  new BMW
      1334  WOTVAX::ANDERSONE     9-JAN-1991    16  NEW BMW 3 SERIES
      1678  BAHTAT::SALLITT      29-JAN-1992     0  New BMW 300-series
    
    Roy

    
    I test drove 316i and I think it is much overpriced for a car like
    that; no hot performance, average handling, poorly equipped, even
    noisy compared to any car of that price-class.
    
    I also drove 520i after that and it felt totally like different car.
    520 was silent, had good torque, felt steady at high speed. It
    was a real BMW after that new little brother.
    
    I was not impressed with 316.
    
    Hannu

    Re .3
    
    But what were you comparing it to?
    
    The 316i is not marketed as "hot performance" motoring - perhaps you
    should look at a 320i or 325i?
    
    Not everyone wants high performance, just an all-round good performer
    and quality car.  

    .3�    I test drove 316i and I think it is much overpriced for a car like
    .3�    that; no hot performance, average handling, poorly equipped, even
    .3�    noisy compared to any car of that price-class.
    
    What did you expect ? the poor little engine has to cope with 1.4 ton
    of metal. 

    re: 1678.4 �-< Severely regretting getting a Volvo 480 >-
    
    Out of interest, why ?

    cos he could have had a Rover 2xx or 4xx series! (-:

    
    Not that bloody advert again!

    
    
    The new 318iS coupe seems like a good car, According to AUTOCAR and
    motor the car is priced at about 17,500 and comes with alloys,M-TEC 
    suspension, colour coded body, ABS, sport steering wheel, elect. windows
    cent. locking and elect. mirrors, But electric sunroof is a #800
    option, The car has 140bhp, and the article says 0-62 10 secs, but
    BMW calim 0-60 is just under 9. Max speed 132mph, Its a better looking
    car than the saloon, and is more than a match for the 320i.
    
    
    
    So I am going to order one with electric sunroof and maybe leather
    interior

Ahhh Gi'day...�

    The old  318iS  is  a nice hack, but hardly brilliant.  The new 320i is
    much  better,  the engine is back in BMW's territory (sixes).  Handling
    is reportedly not as fatal as the old 3's.

>    The old  318iS  is  a nice hack, but hardly brilliant.  The new 320i is
>    much  better,  the engine is back in BMW's territory (sixes).  Handling
>    is reportedly not as fatal as the old 3's.
    
    The old 318iS handles very well, the M Technic set up being reponsible. 
    I believe the new 3's utimately understeer to make front wheel drivers
    feel at home.  The result is a car that lacks the sporting feel of the
    old 3 (+ M Technic). 

    
    
    I had a test drive of the newish 325i SE last weekend, And was most
    impressed, this car had the M-tec suspension and stuck to the road
    very well, excelleration was good a well, the coupe version of this
    should be a very good car, but at about #23,000+ it should be, As an
    option you can have the M-tec steering wheel for a snip...Just #200 +
    vat.

Ahhh Gi'day...�

		      You sure we drive the same 318iS?

    
    RE. -1.
    
    "excelleration"  Nice one. Was that intentional?
    
    Chris
    

    RE: .14
    
    I am not on about the old 318is, I am talking about the 318is coupe to
    be released at the end of march, The old one is a cr*p (In my opinion),
    but the new one sounds really good, in .13 I was talking about the
    325i SE, which is s'posed to be very similar. 
    
    
    Not a fan of the old 3 series at all
    
    
    shoeboxes on wheels
             

    
    RE .4
    
    I compared 316 to old 316 and 320. But I have not tested new 325 with
    "M" suspension, it could be totally different. 
    
    Does pure quality cost so much if all other things are average? Of
    course our German friends just buy those high-end models that are
    different, but here in Finland they cost mega-marks. 
    
    
    Hannu

    RE .16
    
    So what's your definition of cr*p then ?  I'm very pleased with my old
    shape 318iS. OK, so it hasn't got the performance of a hot hatch (my
    last car was a R5GTT), but it's much nicer to drive (IMO). Perhaps I'm
    getting old ??  :-)
    
    Pete

    I eventually got to road-test a new 316i. Performance wasn't shattering
    from a standstill, but certainly adequate in 3rd. gear from 40 to 70
    mph. Handling, ride, balance, feedback to the driver were good too,
    without compromising a comfortable ride. It also seemed very solid and
    well screwed together.
    
    Most of my driving is long distance, and as don't live in a large town
    I don't need traffic-lights-Grand-Prix performance, so the 316i looks a
    good deal. I've been driving a Volvo 740 for the last year (makes my
    wife's Nova seem like Porsche, but super-comfortable on the motorways),
    so the 316i's 37.7 mpg at 75 mph will be as good as a pay rise.
    
    Thanks for the replies  to .0
    
    Dave

    I took delivery of my 318i last July and apart from wind noise comming from
    the door mirrors I have been very pleased with it. My advice (if you
    can afford it) is to go for the 318i instead of the 316i as the 316i
    does not have an anti-roll bar fitted .
    
    I will always remember my test drive at the dealers ( Morrisons of
    Kirkaldy). The salesman drove us out to a large roundabout and
    proceeded to take it at 65 mph the car never slid,shuddered nor did the
    tyres (205x70) squeal.It stuck like the proverbial sh-t to a blanket.
    
    The test vehical was a 318i and to be honest I doubt it the results
    would have been the same if it been a 316i without an anti-roll bar.
     
    It is very easy for someone to be critical comparing 320i/325i with a
    316i. All vehicles are carrying the same 1.25 tonnes and a straight six
    will always beat a straight four for transmitted engine noise. 
    
    Good luck with whatever your final choice may be.
    
    regards,
    Eric.

    Re: .4/.6  (regretting getting a Volvo 480)
    
    Well, it might seem a bit petty, but BMW drivers will know what I mean
    when I say that once you've driven a BMW, anything else pales in
    comparison.  I changed, because at the time my BMW lease expired the
    new 3 Series wasn't available, and I decided to go for my second choice
    of the Volvo (incidentally my third choice was a Discovery!).  
    
    Why have I regretted it, specifically?
    
    1:  Driving over 50mph, you can't hear Radio 4 on LW.  Any radio
    station on FM or LW difficult to hear unless volume turned right up =
    distortion.  Dealer agrees with me that it should be changed for a
    better quality set.  Volvo UK refuse.
    
    2:  Water.  The rear window likes a bit of a leak now and again.  The
    spacesaver tyre regularly sits in a couple of inches of water.
    
    3:  Roadholding.  Grip is less than satisfactory in the wet.  I never
    had any problems with my old 3 Series, despite everything that has been
    said about them in this regard.
    
    4:  Build Quality.  OK-ish, but far from BMW standards.
    
    5:  Servicing.  Everyone thinks it is expensive to service a BMW until
    they have a Volvo serviced.   Fortunately, PHH picked/pick up the tab. 
    My last major service on the Volvo cost more than #130 over and above
    the BMW cost, less than a year apart.  If I was a private owner, I
    wouldn't be very happy.
    
    

    � 4:  Build Quality.  OK-ish, but far from BMW standards.
    
    Good job you didn't get a new 3 series then. By all accounts (numerous
    sources, including TG last week) the new 3 series is very poorly bolted
    together and (to quote Jeremy Clarkson) has Lada Samara quality plastic
    trim!
    
    Mark

�    Well, it might seem a bit petty, but BMW drivers will know what I mean
�    when I say that once you've driven a BMW, anything else pales in
�    comparison.
    
    I've had an attractive BMW 316i (old version) but since then many other
    cars. The last few years I have a Peugeot 405 SRi and surely don't want
    to change. The Peugeot is much more comfortable, better performance
    etc.
    
    On the other hand, if the price wasn't a problem I would go for the new
    coup�. But that should be because in the first place I'd like a coup�
    and Peugeot didn't planned one for the 405 series.
    
    Sjaak.

    dont do it!!
    
    spend the extra 1000 quid and get a 318i. 200cc and roll bar is worth
    it!
    

    
    
           I used to have one of the old shape 316i's and was very pleased
    with it. I have now just test driven a new 316i and think it is a far 
    nicer car inside, if not out,  which is a matter of taste anyway. Also
    the build quality on the new one I drove seemed a lot better than the
    early new one I drove. 
           I also drove a new Audi 80 2 hours before and in comparison that
    was very slow,ungainly and boring (yes I know 316i's are not fast). So 
    I will be rejoining the small band of happy 316i drivers again.
    
            Alan
    
    P.S.  I agree once you've had a BMW your not happy until you get
    another.
    P.P.S.  I think Jeremy Clarkson is a Pratt and everytime he comes on
    Top gear I turn over.
    

    � P.S.  I agree once you've had a BMW your not happy until you get
    � another.
    
    Good to hear BMW have sorted out their quality control problems. Of
    course, if you've never had a BMW it may be that you'd never want one!
    :^)
    
    � P.P.S.  I think Jeremy Clarkson is a Pratt and everytime he comes on
    � Top gear I turn over.
    
    You may be right (he does go a bit overboard sometimes), but early new 
    style 3 series DID suffer from un-BMW quality. Clarkson was far from
    alone in his criticism of the cars. 
    
    Mark

I had the old 318i and the current 316 is not a patch on it. This 316 is 
slow (still after 16000 ml), to empty the ashtray, you have to put your 
finger in the tray before it comes out. You cant see the end of the 
boot or the front of the bonnet. I think its pretty claustrophobic (sp?). 
As far as the new shape is concern, is it any different than the Nissan 
Primera. Give me the old shape any day. You always KNEW it was a BMW.

Eddie

    I have just got a 318is coupe, in preference to the 320i coupe. Mainly
    because the 320 engine is a bit bland and it drinks petrol (I used to
    have a 320 old shape and found it thirstier than the 325 I got
    subsequently).
    
    Handling seems good, although I find the power steering too light -
    suppose I'll get used to it?! Someone said the new coupe was set up to
    understeer, thereby suiting front-wheel drive converts. Ultimately for
    really quick driving, understeer is better - grip coming off the front
    means a transfer to the rear, allowing you to control the car with the
    throttle rather than sawing away at the wheel.
    
    However, I don't think this is what BMW had in mind when they set up
    the geometry!
    
    But comparing a Calibra with a BMW is a bit excessive. No proper
    "sports car" can have front wheel drive - it's contradiction in terms!
    
    Oh yes, the 318is has quite a loud engine note at 80-90 mph - could be
    tiring on long trips to Warrington. I'll find out soon.
    
    Rupert                                         
    
    

    
    � But comparing a Calibra with a BMW is a bit excessive. No proper
    � "sports car" can have front wheel drive - it's contradiction in terms!
    
    Seemingly, with the demise of the Elan, this is one myth which
    persists.
    
    Mark
    
    PS It stretches credulity to think of either the Calibra or the 3
    series 2 door (I refuse to call it a coup�!) as a sports car.

    Last week I ordered my BMW 325TD. It is due for delivery by the end of
    next month.
    I decided to lease this car after a 250 km drive. Guess I took the
    right decision. It feels like a great car to drive (at least for the
    250 km).
    Anybody  out there with (a lot) more experience re. this car (type)?
    
    Thanks.
    
    Hans

    Took delivery of a 318is Coupe yesterday, and although I've only driven
    from London to the suburbs so far, I'm impressed. Good build quality,
    nice feel, very slick gearbox and pretty quiet.
    
    Will put more in when I've done a few more miles.
    
    Paul

    I've had my new 318i for a month now and I'm well pleased.  The base
    model is a bit spare but once you've decided to pay that amount of
    money it's not that hard to add a few options.  I added M-series
    suspension, 205x60s, sports seats, sports steering wheel, front fog
    lights and rear spoiler.
    
    I've done a few longish trips already (4+ hours) and I have to say that
    it does exactly what BMW say it'll do - get you from point A to point B
    with the minimum of fuss and feeling refreshed when you get there. 
    It's solid, relaxed at practically any speed, and the longer you have
    it the more you appreciate the thought that's gone into the
    engineering, things that aren't always immediately obvious.
    
    If I had my druthers I might change the front fog lights for heated
    wing mirrors, but not much else.

    Like -1 I've now had my 318is for just on two months and done around
    3500 miles. I'd also recommend it whole heartedly. It handles superbly,
    the engine is very flexible and the ride is first class even with the
    sports suspension. Build quality is excellent and all the controls feel
    solid and fall naturally to hand. I'm getting 33-35 mpg on motorway
    driving and around 30 in town.
    
    1 minor niggle is the lack of a way of cutting out external air (fumes
    in traffic etc) while keeping the heater going.
    
    That apart, excellent.
    
    Paul

    Paul,
    
    How do you get 33-35 mpg on the motorway? I have a 318is and only get
    about 30 mpg at best. I cruise at 90 mph and tend to buy the cheapest
    petrol and I try to drive economically (ie not flooring it all the
    time). Around town I get about 28-29 mpg.
    
    I ordered air conditioning on mine and it has a re-circulated air
    switch. Ref your point on fumes etc.
    
    However I must agree with you on the overall package. It really is a
    very well thought out car. Handling is superb. Power steering is a
    shade too light, but I've got used to it.
    
    I'm glad I didn't go for the 320i Coupe. Apart from being much
    thirstier, the engine is very flat compared to the 318is. The 3198is
    loves revs and if you are not aware of this it will fool you into thinking
    it's not the 140bhp engine it claims to be.
    
    Rupert

    I'm getting around 9.5 litres/100 kilometres (convert it yourself, but
    it's better than 30mpg).  That's a mix of everything from city driving
    to 160kph+.  I'm amazed at how economical it is at speed.  But I don't
    have airco (6,000+ guilders!  You've got to be kidding!).

    Ahhh guilders, that takes me back...
    
    I was at a place called, well pronounced, Sgravensand. Luvvly.

    Just a thought, does your 318is have a catalytic converter?
    
    I know that effect economy.
    
    Hang on, I've just worked out 9.5 lts/100kph - it comes to 30mpg,
    roughly the same as me. I was beginning to worry....
    
    Rupert

    
    Relax guys - I'm only getting 11 ltrs /100 km on my new 318 (about
    35mpg). I guess that's Lisbon driving - 160kph or 1st gear (not much in
    between!)
    I agree on your other comments - what a relief after 2 years with an
    Alfa 75. The re-circulating air button is on mine since they all have
    A/C in Portugal - it's very useful when you pass the the open sewers!
    I've also discovered the pleasure of a quiet car with a CD player -
    that wonderful Alfa engine note gets very tiresome on the motorway.
    I've had 2 325's in the past so I notice a lack of power at the top
    end, but not as much as I expected. The German build quality is as good
    as ever - still no rattles after 2 months of Lisbon potholes.
    
    John 

    Another Alfa refugee! My 318is follows a 75TS.The alfa felt more alive,
    but its nice to know the car will still have the same bits on it when
    you end a journey as when you started!
    
    Paul

    re: new 3 series
    
    After having looked hard at a 325i coupe, I'd agree about the build
    quality, but make the comment that the quality in the cabin is still
    short of the mark for an expensive saloon. Mind you I find the 5 series
    the same as well. Plastics a bit naff; that sort of thing...
    
    Last week-end I did a tour of the dealers. Interesting sitting in the
    Audo 100 2.8, a Merc 190 and a 325i coupe. The Audi has them both
    beaten for quality (similiar value cars).
    
    -Dave.

    OK, how many of you have had your front and rear badges nicked?

 If you dont have a rear badge i dont have to overtake you;-)))))

    Hello Derek, welcome back.
    
    	Rik

    Yep - had the badge nicked on my current car (old shape 3 series)
    
    Pete