Conference terri::cars_uk

At the moment I have a lot more than 1mm of thread on the front tyres of
a fiesta, and do not intend to leave them on past the end of this week. In
wet weather I find that traction is very poor indeed. I don't beleive
that I have ever driven a car with thread down to the statutary minimum, but
I should imagine on anything more than a damp motorway it would be deadly.

For once I think I agree with the legislators here....

Terry

�    If I was a tire manufacturer who supplied the standard 15mm new tyre
    
�    It is sickening to know that these tyre manufactures **could** double
�    the life of a tyre without affecting the stability of the vehicle  
    
    Do you really think that a tyre of present construction with double
    the tread depth would be as stable as one with 15mm ?
    
    Just imagine those tread blocks squirming whenever you turn the
    wheel or use the brakes.
    
    J.R.
    
    PS Having said that, I am sure that *some* increase in tread depth
       could be managed quite safely, but it's a captive market - of sorts.

�	At the moment I have a lot more than 1mm of thread on the front tyres of
�	a fiesta, and do not intend to leave them on past the end of this week.
    
    
    I thought the current limit was 2mm already ?
    
    
    Shaun.

    
    Yes, it would be impossible to drive on 30mm of tread, but they 'could'
    increase the new tread level by 2mm, thereby ensuring that the user
    still gets the same value for money.......but will they???
    
    * Min tread level in the UK, is still 1mm.
    
    The reason I mentioned this note, is because I just forked out 200 quid 
    for a set of tyres........
    
    If you base each tyre at approximately 50 quid each, with a new tread
    level of 15mm, the cost per mm works out at 3.3 pounds. If we 'lose'
    2mm due to new regulations, and the manufactures don't increase the
    tread level, then I'll be out of pocket, to the tune of 6.6
    pounds/tyre.
    
    As there are four tyres on the car, the potential loss goes up to a 
    wacking 26.4 pounds!
     
    26.4 pounds is 13.2% of the original 200 pounds outlay, then in
    theory, I'll only be getting 86.8% tyre life, based on todays expense.
    
    John.
                              

    As .1 says, anyone who lets their tyres get down to the current legal
    minimum before replacing them is asking for trouble.  The manufacturers
    may end up making a little extra money, but I bet that at least 1 life
    will be saved by the new tread limit.
    
    Mat.
    *:o)
    

    Re: -1
    
    I would agree that to changes tyres before they get down to the legal
    limit is a good idea, has anyone told Hertz and PHH?.
    
    In the past I have had real problems in getting tyres changed early,
    at ATS in Basingstoke, they told me that it was not unknown for
    Hertz to ask them to keep the tyres and they would inspect them
    to ensure that the tyres had not been replaced with more than 1mm
    of tread.
    
    I bet neither of the above will miss the opportunity to increase
    the cost of the lease car.
    
    Dave
    

    Where did this figure of 15mm come from?  Most new tyres have between 8
    - 10 mm of tread when new.
    
    Increasing the tread depth will affect the vehicle stability as JR
    rightly says.  I wouldn't like to drive my Land Rover (tread depth
    12mm) the same way I drive the car!
    
    As to the current legal, I thought it was 1.6mm or is that Europe?
    
    I have the leasemobile tyres changed when the tyre wear indicators are
    still about a millimetre below the tread so the total tread depth is
    about 2.5mm.  This is not as bad as it sounds as my Sierra 4x4 tends to
    wear the centres out quicker than the rest even at the correct
    pressures.  Someone suggested that is was speed related - can't think
    what they were inferring  ;-)
    
    Alan

    The manufactures could always reduce the prices, to accomodate the
    reduced tyre life......what's the chance of that?
    
    There ARE some tyre manufactures who supply 12 and 15mm tread levels on
    new tyres. 

    Hummm... generally negative responses.
    
    I can think of 2 clear benefits:
    
    1. Increased road safety, as less cars should slide around the roads.
    
    2. Maybe the standard of driving on British roads will improve a bit so
       that you save money - less screaching starts and crazy cornering (so
       that people make an effor to make thier tyres last longer.
    
    Possibly another:
    
    British tyre manufacturers will sell more tyres and not have to sell
    out to Japannese marques.
    
    Paul
     

RE:                     <<< Note 1524.10 by IRNBRU::WILSON >>>
�                       -< Price reductions...Yes please >-
�
�    The manufactures could always reduce the prices, to accomodate the
�    reduced tyre life......what's the chance of that?
    
    Why the hell should they? Just because the law changes and you are now
    forced to replace your tyres a little closer to the time when they
    should be replaced, why should the tyre companies compromise their
    profits, and therefore their viability, to make *your* life easier.
    
    Get real.
              
    Laurie.

    
    Re .11
    
    What British tyre companies?
    
    Mark

    
    Re .14
    
    I just KNEW someone would mention the maker of the Marcos' tyres! :^)
    
    Mark

    re: .8
    
    Are you saying that driving with less tread is safer?
    
    Mat.
    *:o)
    

    
    Why does increased depth = harder compound? I'd've thought on road
    tyres that the deeper tread would have allowed softer compound to 
    give a life similar to a shallower, harder compound tyre?
    
    Mark

    What I think we are missing is how much the tyre costs to produce ?
    
    OK if we all go out and buy tyres more frequently, then the *turnover*
    of the tyre companies increase, but then again, so do overheads (to
    produce more tyres you have to buy more materials, pay for the extra
    man hours to produce them etc...).  No matter how many tyres we buy,
    the companies only make the same amount of profit per tyre as they do
    now. They don't gain by us not using tread (as they don't get it back!)
    so why should they charge less ?
    
    Shaun (not sponsored by a tyre company, but open to offers ;^)
    

>    man hours to produce them etc...).  No matter how many tyres we buy,
>    the companies only make the same amount of profit per tyre as they do
>    now. They don't gain by us not using tread (as they don't get it back!)
>    so why should they charge less ?

The economies of scale ? One tyre costs less to build as a part of a batch of
100 then it does as a one-off. Although diminishing returns will affect the
outcome, there will be a difference.

Also, investment and share incomes may be altered.

    Mark,
    
�The economies of scale ? One tyre costs less to build as a part of a batch of
�100 then it does as a one-off. Although diminishing returns will affect the
�outcome, there will be a difference.
    
    
    But how much of a difference in cost will the be to build 1 tyre as a
    batch of 100 and 1 tyre built as a batch of around 120 ?
    
    Although I do agree with what you say in principle, when looked at in
    context, I think the difference will be very marginal.
    
    Shaun.

    In september's CAR it says:
    
    
    		"FROM 1 JANUARY 1992,the minimum tyre tread
    		 depth increases from 1mm to 1.6mm across
    		 75 percent of the tyre's width."
    
    Regards Martin

    Re: .24
    
    ... anyone know why the limit should be 1.6mm and not 1.5 or 1.7 or
    1.666 recurring?

RE:  Less tread safer in the dry.


As your tires wear, they aren't uniform across the tread.  The tires on the
front of the car aren't the same shape anymore and less tread touches the
tarmac.  They start to become angled on the side from cornering, ie:


New tire   |____|             Worn tire  \___/


The scale is a bit off, but you should be able to see what I'm getting at.


The difference between 1 and 1.6 mm is so minor that the tires are shot, anyway.
You may say that the bald tires are safer on dry (clean)  STRAIGHT tarmac, but
in a curve, you have less grip.

This wearing also lends itself to a shimmy in the front end whilst travelling at
motorway speeds (this is also unsafe).


-Al

I just got rounded off tires replaced on my car.

Not only does it corner better now (I can go faster before squealing, etc...)
but all shimmy is gone, etc...

These were Uniroyals on BMW 325i - 30,000 miles old.  The rear tires where at
or below the limit and the fronts where severely rounded.


In a physics lab, rounded tires may be better, but on my car, the new ones are
a great improvement.

-Al

    
    I think you'll find Derek is talking about race tracks, not physics
    labs.
    
    Mark

A question from Mr Ignorant:  what is "shimmying", as mentioned in a couple of
recent notes?

Scott

    Shimmying, (really two words, Shimmy - ying), is what happens when you
    finally run out of tread and suffer a blowout. The expression describes
    the frantic and desperate manouvering required at 90mph on the motorway
    after such an event.
    
    The 'Shimmy' is when you swerve to the left in a desperate attempt to
    get to the the hard shoulder, followed immediately by a 'Ying' to the
    right as you try and compensate for the turn.
    
    It is thought by some to be a distortion of the older word
    'Shittiepong', which describes the reaction of the driver after
    suffering a blowout. However, the reference to the worn tread is
    tenous, and is generally considered too vague for common use.
    
    Dougie
    

RE:  Last 8^PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP



Perhaps my terms are off, etc...  What I'm talking about is a shake or shudder
of the steering wheel.

RE:  The race track

I'm sure that he's right in terms of how the car performs there, but then again,
there is no minimum amount of tread required there 8^)

-Al

    
    It's not that often that I find myself totally agreeing with Derek, but
    this is one of those times.
    
    If tread = grip in the dry then why do racing cars use slicks?
    
    Equally, tread in the wet is not to give grip, it's to get the water
    out from under the tyre to allow the rubber to reach the road. In this
    case the pattern is equally (if not more) important than the tread
    depth.
    
    I would surmise that the 1.6mm is merely to bring the UK into line with
    the rest of the EC.
    
    Mark
    
    PS Derek's tyres have to be road legal due to the class of racing he's
    in, but he and the other competitors buff the tyres down to the limit
    to improve the grip.

>><<< Note 1524.32 by TLE::LEGERLOTZ "When I want your opinion I'll ask for it." >>>
>>                                -< shim?  me? >-

>>Perhaps my terms are off, etc...  What I'm talking about is a shake or shudder
>>of the steering wheel.
    
    This is called whell vibration caused probably because at 30k miles
    your tyres have worn and are out of balance!.
    
    Any new tyre, balanced should have fixed this.
    
    Richard

RE:  Tires out of balance.


Actually, I had them balanced about 3000 miles before I had them replaced.  I
had noticed the vibration and wanted to get it taken care of before I went on a
trip from New Hampshire to Indiana (2000 miles round trip).

They rebalanced the tires but said that I didn't do much good and that the only
way to eliminated the vibration was to replace them.

He was right.  New tires took care of it.


I typically have the tires balanced every 10,000 miles.  It doesn't cost much
and makes the ride of the car better.

-Al

>                  -< page 148 in septembers CAR explains all >-

...not all of us get CAR, or wish to pay out for one page.

    
    Not got a Smiths in Fareham, Jane?
    
    Mark

>    Not got a Smiths in Fareham, Jane?
    
Yes, but I still don't want to pay approx �2.00 for 1 page of info.

    I think what Mark means is why buy it when you can read it for free in
    the shop.
    
    I must admit I read all the car mags in Tesco on a Thursday night as
    the wife undertakes her weekly foray into the unknown.
    
    R
    

    
    Exactly!
    
    After all, you wouldn't buy a car without driving it first, would you?
    
    Mark

    Now here's the crux....
    
    "Does it mean we'll get better quality remoulds ???!"
    
    Tim

	The daily mail has average tread mileage for different cars.....

	My guess would be if you're getting average tread, you're not abusing 
	the tyres.


	Ford Granada 2.0i		14,700
	Ford Sierra 2.0GSI		19,100        this is RWD
	Vauhall cavalier 2.0sri		12,300        this is FWD
	Ford escort 1.6xri		16,200
	Ford sierra 1.6l and gl		19,000
	vauxhall cavalier 1.6l and gl	17,200
	
	
	Heather