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Conference terri::cars_uk

Title:	Cars in the UK
Notice:	Please read new conference charter 1.70
Moderator:	COMICS::SHELLEYELD

Created:	Sun Mar 06 1994
Last Modified:	Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:	Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:	2584
Total number of notes:	63384

1385.0. "New V6 engine from VW" by NCEIS1::CHEVAUX (Patrick Chevaux, Nice, 828-6995) Fri Mar 15 1991 18:26

    After years of development the new VW V6 makes its debut at the Geneva
    Auto Show on the PASSAT. Rather interesting architecture:
    
    V6 open at 15 degrees (yes like on various Lancias)
    Cast iron block, Aluminium head (one combined head for the 6 cyl)
    DOHC, 2 valves per cyl
    Compression ratio  10:1
    Bore : 81mm     Stroke : 91.3mm    Capacity: 2.8 litres
    Peak power:  174bhp @5800 rpm (128kW)
    Peak torque: 24.5mkg@4200 rpm (240Nm)
    
    Very compact engine installed transversely: 500x520x680mm
    
    The CORRADO is likely to receive the VR6 someday.

T.R	Title	User	Personal Name	Date	Lines
1385.1	Just love looking at engines.	RUTILE::SMITH_A	No-one puts baby in the corner	`Mon Mar 18 1991 08:07`	14
	Yep, saw it there in a cut-away display. >>> Very compact engine installed transversely: 500x520x680mm We're talking very compact here. I thought it was a straight-four at first until you looked into it more closely. Compare this to the size of the old Kent 3.0 or current Stuttgart (?) 2.8 from Ford and you'd never guess they were the same capacity. The V-angle is extremely acute. Lovely bit of motor. T.
1385.2		NCEIS1::CHEVAUX	Patrick Chevaux, Nice, 828-6995	`Mon Mar 18 1991 08:32`	5
	Audi have released another V6 some time ago in the 100. Very different architecture (longitudinal, 90 degrees) but same capacity and similar performance figures : same peak power as the VW, higher peak torque at lower rpm. The Audi V6 is basically a chopped V8 (as the PRV, the Maserati, ...).
1385.3		CHEFS::CLEMENTSD	Public Sector and Telecomms	`Mon Mar 18 1991 12:56`	3
	Minor rathole, but we mihgt as well get it straight...... I hope. 2996cc of Ford V6 is the ESSEX engine. The replacement 28somethingor other is the COLOGNE motor. Or hab=ve i been wrong since 1979?
1385.4	Spot the dork...	RUTILE::SMITH_A	No-one puts baby in the corner	`Mon Mar 18 1991 13:21`	11
	Yep, you're right, I'm a plonker. Monday morning brain fade I suppose. re .2 - they also had the Audi V6 at the motor-show, with an excellent display where the voice-over gave the schpiel about the technical wonderment, while a robot arm removed various chunks of a what-looked-like-complete engine and gearbox, to reveal all components. T.
1385.5	PRV?	DOOZER::PENNEY	Richard Penney 830 4114 @RKA 1/19	`Thu Mar 21 1991 17:45`	7
	Other minor rathole (re .2): > lower rpm. The Audi V6 is basically a chopped V8 (as the PRV, the > Maserati, ...). What's a PRV - not the V6 that's in various Peugeot/Renault/Volvo is it? (I can't think of the corresponding V8)
1385.6		ANNECY::MATTHEWS	M+M Enterprises. Thats the CATCH	`Fri Mar 22 1991 10:31`	8
	What are the main advantages of a V6 like this with such a small angle of V, apart from having a single block and head ??? Is it just to make it compact, and if so, why not make a similar style V4, V8 etc etc ??? Is this just the start of a whole new range of engines ???
1385.7	V8 became V6	NCEIS1::CHEVAUX	Patrick Chevaux, Nice, 828-6995	`Fri Mar 22 1991 14:07`	9
	.5�What's a PRV - not the V6 that's in various Peugeot/Renault/Volvo is it? (I .5�can't think of the corresponding V8) Correct. It's the Peugeot/Renault/Volvo (and Alfa, ...). Originally they had planned a V8, hence the "V8 architecture" (90 degrees). One oil crisis forced the CFM (Compagnie Fran�aise de M�canique, joint venture set up to build the PRV engine) to drop 2 cylinders. Same thing happened to Maserati. The Audi story is different : they have the V8 and they wanted a V6, guess what they did ...
1385.8		NCEIS1::CHEVAUX	Patrick Chevaux, Nice, 828-6995	`Fri Mar 22 1991 14:11`	7
	.6�Is it just to make it compact, and if so, why not make a similar .6�style V4, V8 etc etc ??? Well, yes, the goal was to make a COMPACT 6 cylinder engine. Lancia made a similar V4 engine for the Fulvia family a number of years ago. I think Ford had a very compact V4 some time in the 60s.
1385.9	Wasn't it?	AYOV27::ISMITH	Should I stay or should I go?	`Fri Mar 22 1991 15:03`	6
	.8� I think Ford had a very compact V4 some time in the 60s. Which was used in a Saab? Ian.
1385.10		SHIPS::SAXBY_M	Smoke me a kipper...	`Fri Mar 22 1991 15:10`	6
	Re .9 And Marcos! :^) Mark
1385.11		MASALA::IJOHNSTON	rally drivers do it sideways	`Fri Mar 22 1991 15:28`	6
	Re -2 Is that the one taht was used in the corsair?? 1700cc?? Ian.
1385.12		NCEIS1::CHEVAUX	Patrick Chevaux, Nice, 828-6995	`Fri Mar 22 1991 15:31`	3
	.9� Which was used in a Saab? and in the Matra 530 in midship position
1385.13		SUBURB::PARKER	LAST DAY!	`Fri Mar 22 1991 15:38`	5
	The interesting thing about the Ford V4 is that it was 2/3 of the Essex V6. Thus (I believe) pistons, conrods, valves, valve springs, piston rings etc. were interchangeable. Steve
1385.14		ANNECY::MATTHEWS	M+M Enterprises. Thats the CATCH	`Fri Mar 22 1991 16:46`	6
	But is the Ford V4 of a similar small V angle, with a single cylinder head ??? I though the reason for a V engine, apart from reducing overall engine length, was to make the engine smoother. Is this still the case with such a small angle of V ???
1385.15	If it's 2/3rds Kent, is it a Ken engine ?	RUTILE::SMITH_A	No-one puts baby in the corner	`Mon Mar 25 1991 08:38`	11
	Nope, the Ford V4 was not a small angle, single head, engine it was a traditional double-header. I hadn't heard of a V configured engine being smoother. I thought that was to do with the number of cylinders and the more balanced forces on the crank they produce ? So a V6 or V8 may be a smoother engine, but this was because of the 6 or 8 cylinders, not the V config. FWIW I think i've read somewhere that a straight 6 is the smoothest configuration. AmS.
1385.16	Oh no! NOT again!!!!!	SHIPS::SAXBY_M	Smoke me a kipper...	`Mon Mar 25 1991 08:45`	10
	Re. 15 Arrrrrrrrggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!! The V6 is an ESSEX!!!! The Kent is a 4 in-line!!!!! Mark
1385.17	Does that make it an ESS type ?	RUTILE::SMITH_A	No-one puts baby in the corner	`Mon Mar 25 1991 08:52`	1
	Sorry Mark, I just can't get the hang of this. :-)
1385.18		NCEIS1::CHEVAUX	Patrick Chevaux, Nice, 828-6995	`Wed Mar 27 1991 10:46`	13
	.15� think i've read somewhere that a straight 6 is the smoothest .15� configuration. Correct. The good V12s are really 2 straight 6 cylinder banks mounted together at the right (60,120,180 degrees) angle. The V8 can be smooth too, but only in the "american" form, that is with a crankshaft allowing con-rods every 90 degrees. The Cosworth V8 is just the opposite as is the Ferrari V8 (flat crankshaft). The Lancia Thema 8.32 is a very modified Ferrari V8 : same block with "american" cranskshaft hence the smoothness.